Students told to "take him down"

[Skirmisher]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/10/13/defending.the.classroom.ap/index.html

This article is similar to one i read like a day ago and leaves me feeling somewhat disconcerted.

It goes over how some experts are now advising that teachers and students all rush and attempt to subdue any armed assailant rather than getting under their desks or the like.

I completely understand and even tend to agree with the rationale yet find it sad that we are to the point of needing to tell them to do this and a concept that makes me wince when i try to picture it actually happening.




Teaching kids to fight back against classroom invaders

POSTED: 9:42 p.m. EDT, October 13, 2006

BURLESON, Texas (AP) -- Youngsters in a suburban Fort Worth, Texas, school district are being taught not to sit there like good boys and girls with their hands folded if a gunman invades the classroom, but to rush him and hit him with everything they've got -- books, pencils, legs and arms.

"Getting under desks and praying for rescue from professionals is not a recipe for success," said Robin Browne, a major in the British Army reserve and an instructor for Response Options, the company providing the training to the Burleson schools.

That kind of fight-back advice is all but unheard of among schools, and some fear it will get children killed.

But school officials in Burleson said they are drawing on the lessons learned from a string of disasters such as Columbine in 1999 and the Amish schoolhouse attack in Pennsylvania last week.

The school system in this working-class suburb of about 26,000 is believed to be the first in the nation to train all its teachers and students to fight back, Browne said.

At Burleson -- which has 10 schools and about 8,500 students -- the training covers various emergencies, such as tornadoes, fires and situations where first aid is required. Among the lessons: Use a belt as a sling for broken bones, and shoelaces make good tourniquets.

Students are also instructed not to comply with a gunman's orders, and to take him down.

Browne recommends students and teachers "react immediately to the sight of a gun by picking up anything and everything and throwing it at the head and body of the attacker and making as much noise as possible. Go toward him as fast as we can and bring them down."

Response Options trains students and teachers to "lock onto the attacker's limbs and use their body weight," Browne said. Everyday classroom objects, such as paperbacks and pencils, can become weapons.

"We show them they can win," he said. "The fact that someone walks into a classroom with a gun does not make them a god. Five or six seventh-grade kids and a 95-pound art teacher can basically challenge, bring down and immobilize a 200-pound man with a gun."
Change in mindset

The fight-back training parallels the change in thinking that has occurred since September 11, 2001, when United Flight 93 made it clear that the usual advice during a hijacking -- Don't try to be a hero, and no one will get hurt -- no longer holds. Flight attendants and passengers are now encouraged to rush the cockpit.

Similarly, women and youngsters are often told by safety experts to kick, scream and claw their way out during a rape attempt or a child-snatching.

In 1998 in Oregon, a 17-year-old high school wrestling star with a bullet in his chest stopped a rampage by tackling a teenager who had opened fire in the cafeteria. The gunman killed two students, as well as his parents, and 22 others were wounded.

Hilda Quiroz of the National School Safety Center, a nonprofit advocacy group in California, said she knows of no other school system in the country that is offering fight-back training, and found the strategy at Burleson troubling.

"If kids are saved, then this is the most wonderful thing in the world. If kids are killed, people are going to wonder who's to blame," she said. "How much common sense will a student have in a time of panic?"

Terry Grisham, spokesman for the Tarrant County Sheriff's Department, said he, too, had concerns, though he had not seen details of the program.

"You're telling kids to do what a tactical officer is trained to do, and they have a lot of guns and ballistic shields," he said. "If my school was teaching that, I'd be upset, frankly."

Some students said they appreciate the training.

"It's harder to hit a moving target than a target that is standing still," said 14-year-old Jessica Justice, who received the training over the summer during freshman orientation at Burleson High.
A better option?

William Lassiter, manager of the North Carolina-based Center for Prevention of School Violence, said past attacks indicate that fighting back, at least by teachers and staff, has its merits.

"At Columbine, teachers told students to get down and get on the floors, and gunmen went around and shot people on the floors," Lassiter said. "I know this sounds chaotic and I know it doesn't sound like a great solution, but it's better than leaving them there to get shot."

Lassiter questioned, however, whether students should be included in the fight-back training: "That's going to scare the you-know-what out of them."

Most of the freshman class at Burleson's high school underwent instruction during orientation, and eventually all Burleson students will receive some training, even the elementary school children.

"We want them to know if Miss Valley says to run out of the room screaming, that is exactly what they need to do," said Jeanie Gilbert, district director of emergency management. She said students and teachers should have "a fighting chance in every situation."

"It's terribly sad that when I get up in the morning that I have to wonder what may happen today either in our area or in the nation," Gilbert said. "Something that happens in Pennsylvania has that ripple effect across the country."

Burleson High Principal Paul Cash said he has received no complaints from parents about the training. Stacy Vaughn, the president of the Parent-Teacher Organization at Norwood Elementary in Burleson, supports the program.

"I feel like our kids should be armed with the information that these types of possibilities exist," Vaughn said.

[Asha]

That is shocking.
I agree that it does make sense to do something rather than pray under a desk but if someone I loved was in this situation the thought of them rushing an armed assailant is just unthinkable.
And to think that anyone could summon up that kind of courage and work together while at least one of the people alongside you will most likely be murdered..
Like Skirmisher said it's sad we're at the point of needing to tell them to do this.
Don't american schools have armed guards?
They should.

[ElanthianSiren]

Nah, they're too busy inflating the price of education with middle management and useless supervisors.

-M

[Makkah]

We had armed guards...

Edit: Well they were called "Resource officers" but they were effectively armed guards.

[Gan]

I'm torn on the issue.

Having an armed assailant in the classroom is a worst case scenario/nightmare one could imagine. The recent events where the assailant's intent was to kill regardless definately speaks to the futility of students being completely submissive. The end result will still be the same.

Its not like these guys are stupid, they plan the event, come prepared, and enact their aggression before the authorities have a chance to set up and respond. And they go into this knowing that they will kill themselves upon completion, which makes negotiating kind of pointless.

On the downside, if the students do rush the assailant, what are the odds of them subduing him/her? How will size/age/strength/numbers play a factor? And will forcing the assailant to defend him/herself result in more than his/her intended targets to be hurt or killed?

Lots of questions, and many parents are iffy on whether they want their child to be a hero, victim, or released hostage.

I do think they need panic buttons in the class rooms for the teachers or students to use in an emergency. And I like that they are receiving additional first aid training. But even then thats [the button] a reactive measure.

I'm still torn on the fighting back stance, although as an adult you bet I'd be looking for an opportunity to disarm/immobilize the assailant. But looking from an adult perspective through a child's eyes is not always the best thing to do.

[Chaos]

As a parent i would be very upset if my children were taught/told to fight back . As a wife to a local law enforcement officer, I do know about the constant threat close to home about these school " invasions". The most that was talked about here locally was to put in metal detectors, but not much happened with that since they decided it would be to expensive. The schools currenly require one to sign in as a visitor if coming on campus, my thought on that is , NO armed person who plans on a killing spree is actually going into the school office and signing in as a visitor, much less one of the students who are suppost to be there.

I do agree that they should post guards at the schools , the panic buttons are a good idea also, I fully believe that they should lock gates during school hours and not let just anyone on campus.

As a parent it is scary to watch my children go to school each day while sipping coffee and hearing the news in the background about yet another school shooting.

I think a lot needs to be done here, but as long as we are lining the pockets of administrators, unfortunatly not much will be done. IMO

[Alfster]

As a parent it is scary to watch my children go to school each day while sipping coffee and hearing the news in the background about yet another school shooting.


haha

[Parkbandit]

It's a free pass to kick the ever loving shit out of some fucking lunatic's ass.

I'd do it.

[CrystalTears]

It's a free pass to kick the ever loving shit out of some fucking lunatic's ass.

I'd do it.
Are you okay with your kids doing it?

[Goretawn]

Let's see. I also have two small children in school. Do I expect them to do anything if an armed lunatic comes in shooting? No, I really don't. Of course, they are both 6. Now, when they are 10, 13, 16? If someone starts shooting and they run the risk of getting hit, hell yes. Do I expect the teacher too? They better, they are responsible for the safety of my child. Especially if the gunman is shooting the kids.

Of course, we are now the United States of the Offended, so I expect a ton of remifications for that school, to include law suits and a slew of politicians in Texas using this as a way to further their careers with no regard of the safety of the children.

Train 'em up. Teach them to defend themselves.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Are you okay with your kids doing it?

I would be, yes. There are few alternatives to just lying down and doing what they say-- at my old highschool, the plan went as follows: someone unauthorized/suspicious was on campus, a lock-down bell was rang and every classroom door was shut and locked. Lights were turned off and the windows of doors were covered so that an attacker couldn't see where everyone was. Everyone was told to get down on the ground, and wait until someone came over the intercom with news that we could get up. HOWEVER, if someone came into your classroom (busted their way through) we were instructed NOT to lie and to either run away or fight back. We were pretty much told that if we obey when the gunman is near we'll likely get shot.

The way I personally see it is that a child has a better chance of getting shot lying in a perfect line on the floor as instructed by a gunman, who then can go down the line and execute ALL of them in a concise fashion. If a shit-load of children and the teacher attack him, then yes.. there's a possibility someone will get shot. But at least a- they were fighting back and b- it will likely be a LOT less casualties because suddenly he'll be frazzled and swarmed. I know that one child killed is one too many but the alternatives to a peaceful "let him do what he wants" is far wose.

[Asha]

The way I personally see it is that a child has a better chance of getting shot lying in a perfect line on the floor..
I see it as more likely to be shot if you throw yourself at the armed attacker.
You have to assume that every child / student in the area all attacks or at least a number large enough to stab pencils in both eyes or the ones who do attempt to 'take him down' will be shrugged off, killed and the attacker would be no doubt further infuriated.

You'd have to pray the rest of your classmates, while probably pissing themselves in fear, are brave enough to rush him with you.. and hope you're not the inevitable one to get shot.

It's all a horrible circumstance and I still don't know what I think is the best route to survival. I know I'd honestly be so terrified I don't think I'd be able to move. But if I saw an opening I hope I'd take it.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Well, put it this way-- I felt a lot more safe knowing that I was supported in an option besides just lying there and taking it. I'm sure a lot of kids would feel more safe.

Even if you're the only one attacking, a moving target is harder to hit than one lying compliantly on the floor. I've personally been assaulted and though yeah, you're scared, your adrenaline also starts to rush and I'm sure more than one person would feel compelled to act on that. I may have been afraid of getting hurt but fighting back felt right and I made it out with only a few scratches. The guy was caught a few days later because he had to go to the hospital, I had clawed deep enough into his face. Of course, that guy didn't have a gun (a screwdriver) but I don't think I would have let him do what he wished even with a gun (likely rape me). Get the DNA evidence (skin and blood) and hurt the bastard.

[Sean]

what makes you so sure?

[Hulkein]

I think they should just put Ice Cube on call for these situations, he'd resolve them real quick.

[Asha]

Eddie Murphy , you mean .. surely??

[Jolena]

My youngest children go to elementary school and last year their school installed new security devices. There is only three ways into the school currently. The entire facility is surrounded by very high fencing (about 10 foot) and there is a massive chain-link gate that serves as an entrance for children to walk through (the gate is set between two buildings with building material above it to connect the two buildings together) and it is locked at 8:30 and opened at 3:00 when they release. There is the front door to the main building, which goes into the lobby where the principle's office is and the cafeteria connects to it. Every other portion of the school past that point has its individual doors. There are no buildings with long hallways inside, as each classroom has a door outside on the front and a door outside on the back as well.

That being said, the security installed was on the front door, and it is a speaker box that features a button you must push to gain access. Only someone in the office can open the door, and a camera is positioned outside to see who it is wishing entrance. If they do not know you already, a member of the staff will come to the door when it is auto-opened and escort you into the principle's office to get a pass from the secretary so that you can enter the school.

I realize that an assailant can climb a 10 foot fence, or be a disgrunted worker within the school, or even someone that they have seen regularly before so they are not as cautious with them, but the security in place makes me feel much safer about my children being at school during an era where school shootings almost seem common.

Edited to add that my children practice a gunman/dangerous person upon campus drill once a month as well in school. The children are instructed to get under their desks, be very quiet and still, and the window shades are pulled down as well as the door locked by the teacher. It just teaches them to be prepared should something dangerous happen elsewhere on the campus so that other areas are not compromised.

[Sean]

Sounds more like a prison than a school.

[Sean of the Thread]

We had armed guards...

Edit: Well they were called "Resource officers" but they were effectively armed guards.

Our resource officers were real police.. on campus.

[Jolena]

Unfortunately, schools these days must be secured like prisons. Though, surely you can see that a prisoner would have much less options than a child. I love my children's school. I know all the teachers for the grades my children are in, I know the principle, the secretaries, even the cafeteria and janatorial workers, and they know me by first name as well. They look out for my children and that makes me feel good. The campus is nice, with a nice playground, trees, flowers and benches to sit on under the shade - its just a very friendly environment.

Yes, there are security measures in place, but noone seems to feel scared or restricted by those. They feel safe. That is the difference. Prisons have security measures to keep the criminals from escaping. Schools have them to keep the criminals out. I'm much happier with that last scenario personally.

[Sean]

I disagree that school need to secured like prisons. But I guess I also don't feel like getting into an urban vs suburban debate either. In the end if you feel thats the best enviornment for your kid then more power to you.

However, I don't get he connection between "Unfortunately, schools these days must be secured like prisons" and then describing how you know the faculty.

[Jolena]

The connection is that while the school is secured like a prison (with fences, cameras and security measures to enter the school), the atmosphere within is not one of a prison. That was the point I was trying to make.

[Sean of the Thread]

"you wont understand until you have kids of your own"

[Sean]

haha dick

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Prisons have security measures to keep the criminals from escaping. Schools have them to keep the criminals out.>>

A physical barrier is a physical barrier, no matter what side you're on.

[Jolena]

I never argued that it's not, so I'm not quite sure what your point is. The purpose of said physical barrier is what makes the difference for me.

[Sean]

I don't think you could really argue that part of the reason for those barriers is to keep your kids from getting out/off school grounds.

[Bobmuhthol]

Prisons have security measures to keep children out. Schools have them to keep children in.

[Skeeter]

None of the schools here resemble prisons. no fences, metal detectors, armed guards, etc.

I don't think I'd want my kid going to a prison school. If you treat your kids like caged animals, they'll start to act like caged animals.

[Asha]

Just order every student to aquire a school issue sidearm.
But they have to PROMISE to only use it for good.

Prob solved.

[DeV]

If you treat your kids like caged animals, they'll start to act like caged animals.
Bingo.

[Latrinsorm]

I see it as more likely to be shot if you throw yourself at the armed attacker.Would you rather be shot lying on the floor, helpless, or resisting your attacker?

I'd rather not be shot at all either, but in the absolute worst-case scenario that nobody else resists with you that's still one less bullet he can use to shoot someone else with.
the attacker would be no doubt further infuriated.Or spooked enough to run away or so overcome with remorse at having actually shot someone as to kill him or her self.

None of these are acceptable options, but the best of the lot is definitely not "duck and cover". It just doesn't work.

[Sean]

What would Jesus do?

[Sean of the Thread]

What would Jesus do?

He told Todd Beamer LET'S ROLL!!!!!!

[Landrion]

What would Jesus do?

Die for our sins and be ressurected later.

[Apathy]

I would rather have schools full of students willing to fight for their lives and each other lives than schools full of armed guards patrolling inside barb-wire fences like a demilitarized zone.

I think the reluctance people are feeling from this kind of issue is more related to the fact that it could be their children, in their school, and in their neighborhood. No one wants to imagine something horrible happening to loved ones, but teaching/telling them to act helpless is the worst solution.

I'm not saying physical retaliation is the best solution, nor does it ever really solve anything, but sometimes it is necessary. These men (yet to read about a woman) who come into schools armed, are not doing it for attention. They are doing it to kill kids.

[Stanley Burrell]

Texas

Ah, okay.

[Jolena]

I don't think I'd want my kid going to a prison school. If you treat your kids like caged animals, they'll start to act like caged animals.

If my children were treated as such, then yes I could see that. However, the difference is HOW they are treated. My children don't feel caged inside of a prison, not in the slightest. They love their school and know that they are safe. I can't see a problem with that, no matter how I look at it.

[Artha]

That can't be true.

No children love school.

[Fallen]

I say that this philosophy of attack first is a pretty big deterrent to someone thinking that school system as a "Soft target". What is the likely hood of someone choosing that school to go postal in knowing that there is a chance that even 1/5 of each classroom would get up and rush you in the event of an attack?

While it may or may not serve to bring the situation to a close with a lower body count, it certainly sounds like a better solution to a "Duck and cover" scenario...even if for the deterrent factor alone.

I, for one, would absolutely love to hear about one of these emo fucks being stabbed to death by 8 sixth-graders armed with pencils. If you have to go, go out fighting.

[Sean]

I can't wait for the lawsuits when some kid accidentally injures someone elses kid with a book or pencil or whatever meant for the target.

[Jolena]

That can't be true.

No children love school.

They do at ages 5 and 7.

[TheEschaton]

This is just suburban paranoia.

The question of probability is a good one. If you follow orders, what're the chances you'll get shot? If you rush, and you end up alone, the probability of being shot gets close to 1.00, unless the shooter is ridiculous. Even if 1/5th of the class goes, you now have a 5 times more of a chance of being shot at. HOwever, with the current trend to shooter's shooting without chance of "follow the rules, and no one gets hurt", there is an argument for taking the guy down.

I don't know - I don't think schools should act like prisons. Or teach them tactics from former British Army Reserve types. I think it'll just make kids more violent than they already are.

-TheE-

[Latrinsorm]

What would Jesus do?Overturn the arts table all up in there, then thrust His Crotch and shout some kind of catchphrase. "YOU GOT ESSENED" maybe?

[Sean of the Thread]

Eight-year olds, Dude...

[Sean]

Nobody fucks with the Jesus...

[Tisket]

I've known some teachers I wouldn't trust with a slingshot let alone a gun however, it seems Wisconsin wants to arm the teachers:

http://www.htrnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061004/MAN0101/61004054/1358&located=WISINFO

[ElanthianSiren]

If you treat your kids like caged animals, they'll start to act like caged animals.

Bingo x 2

The entire way it's approached is wrong IMO.

-M

[Sean of the Thread]

I'm all for closed campuses. Cameras.. fences.. gates..metal detectors..armed resource officer/policeman... super! They even run a instant criminal background check at the front desk prior to any parent getting in. FTW.

[Back]

Not quite sure how I feel about this yet. Not having any children myself, I can only speculate.

I’d like for my children to be pro-active. In other words, I’d like to teach them about the dangers there are in the world and what to do in certain situations... don’t get into any stranger’s car etc. I’d be inclined to teach them that if they heard a gunshot, or saw someone with a gun, to drop to the ground and lay flat.

If I send my child to a school, I expect the school to take care that my child is safe. The burden of responsibility falls on the school, not my child, if something threatens their safety.

[Skirmisher]

I think someone else posted this already but I thought it was quite appropriate considering the topic.

Stephen Colbert on keeping the classrooms safe.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Glzl9N2KYB4&mode=related&search=

[Nieninque]

I think someone else posted this already but I thought it was quite appropriate considering the topic.

Stephen Colbert on keeping the classrooms safe.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Glzl9N2KYB4&mode=related&search=

Spot on

[sst]

The proper neo-con answer needed to be said. What is this talk about arming teachers? PFFT

Concealed carry permits for all students from 5th grade and up, that way they will never know who might be packing.

[Atlanteax]

The whole point of teaching the kids to throw stuff at the assailant is that it creates *uncertainity* on behalf of the assailant.

I'm pretty certain that studies show that panicking/confused assailants are more likely to flee, and if they do shoot, shoot poorly.

.

This is opposed to allowing an assailant to walk into the classroom, take his time, carefully aim his gun, and kill. Because he is in control of the situation.

.

Attacking the assailant takes control *away* from him, and when he/she loses control, the assailant is going to be significantly less successful in fulfilling his motives.

.

By the way, I am hoping that this trend encourages children to stand up to bullies and fight back. Instead of taking the abuse and having nothing done because they didn't tell their parents or teachers, or that they did tell them, and nothing happened.

The best way to stop a bully is to demonstrate that it will be quite a hassle to bully you. Bully prefers easy targets who cannot or will not defend themselves. They will opt to leave the scrawny kid who fights back alone and target someone else instead.

Nevermind that this trend should also reverse the idiotic decision to tie up hands if there is bullying going on. As in someone gets bullied, but they cannot fight back, because they'd get suspended/disbarred from the school, and the bullying does not get addressed as the school does not want to get sued by the parents of the bully for suspending him.

[Landrion]

The best way to stop a bully is to demonstrate that it will be quite a hassle to bully you. Bully prefers easy targets who cannot or will not defend themselves. They will opt to leave the scrawny kid who fights back alone and target someone else instead.
.

QFT. You dont have to be the fastest gazelle in the herd, merely faster than the slowest.

[Skirmisher]

I don't agree with fences/prison type setups. I do agree with armed security. I simply don't care for most public school administration, in general and feel most of them aren't worth the doughnuts they consume on taxpayer money (which is my own bias and experience).

-M

My problem with this is that once again we are dumping societies problems on the teachers.

Parents abusing kids...well the teachers are now responsible for spotting and making sure they are properly reported.

Children not being taught not to abuse other kids.....the teachers are responsible to monitor all the kids who get little or no instruction as to proper behavior at home.

Drug abuse...etc.....

I mean I do not necessarily think having SOME gun carrying staff members in a school is unthinkable, but teaching is hard enough. If we expect all teachers to be able to handle firearms they better start getting paid a hell of alot more.

[Gan]

Teachers should get hazard duty pay as it stands now... And yes, I do think teachers as a whole are underpaid. Yet, thats to be expected from a historically underfunded federal program.

I wonder how schools would fare if they were required to run their districts/schools with profit oriented business goals. Oh wait, that would be considered a private school then eh?

[Atlanteax]

Teachers should get hazard duty pay as it stands now... And yes, I do think teachers as a whole are underpaid. Yet, thats to be expected from a historically underfunded federal program.

I wonder how schools would fare if they were required to run their districts/schools with profit oriented business goals. Oh wait, that would be considered a private school then eh?

I haven't been much of a fan of (snobby) private schools...

But you don't hear about these kind of incidents there.

.

1) Problematic students are usually unable to enter the program in the first place, or are quickly removed as they do not fit the environment.

2) Inflated school budget allows for a more secure environment (nevermind the emphasis on conformity to school protocols for everyone).

[ElanthianSiren]

Gan's point is why, in high school settings, I always advocate a college exchange program. My high school was considered "good", but it was shit compared to even community college. That's just my experience.

Ideally, I'd advocate having the child participate in tons of community activities while homeschooling up to high school level then placing them in the exchange program. One of my father's friends does this with his kids (he has 5). His daughter is in Irish Dance at Bishop Carroll (sp) and his sons participated in their sports programs as well. I'm not sure how J'd feel about that, but I could probably wield my substantial influence to convince him :P . I've experienced all three btw (homeschooling, public, and the exchange)

I feel teachers should be paid a hell of alot more for what they do (Skirm) but they should also be made aware that they're in a position of authority and with authority comes responsibility. This brings us to Gan's point.

-M

[CrystalTears]

I'm so against homeschooling it's not even funny.

[Gan]

The only moral answer is to gain enough knowledge so we can *predict* these events, not just *react* to them, because as we can see, all the reacting answers are shitty.

OMGLOLZ TOM CRUISE HAD THE SOLUTION ALL ALONG!!!

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i3/3strangedays/minority_report_front.jpg

[TheEschaton]

Every homeschooled kid I met was socially retarded (in the non-offensive way of saying it).

And they couldn't handle it when someone else disagreed with them.

-TheE-

[Ambrosia]

Our resource officers were real police.. on campus.

Each one of the school districts around here have their own ISD police, and there are always 1-2 police on patrol at each school.

They seem to be taking a lot of precaution with everything now, all the schools around here have school uniforms, need clear backpacks, badges, metal detectors.. etc, including elementary. There were only 3 ways in the highschool, and only one way in the elementary.

For the elementary... If you are a parent or sibiling visitor, you have to present an ID when you enter it goes into a system where they also check to see if you're a sexual offender and you get a badge with your picture on it, name, and reason/location of visit... before you even enter. While you're visiting, there is no shortage of teachers/staff checking your badge either...

[Wezas]

In Jr. High we a friend of a friend was home schooled. When all 3 of us hung out he constantly showed off his knowledge of science & math. But when it came to common sense, world events, or even what was currently "cool" the kid was lost. And like TheE, if both me and my friend disagreed with him, it usually resulted in him crying and going home. Jr. High age.

[Gan]

We are currently sponsoring a college student (financially) who was home schooled. Her family is close friends of my wife's family. The girl is exceptionally smart with book sense; however, socially she's still very naive and very intimidated by any confrontation with another person. Ironically enough, she's getting her degree in teaching to be a public school teacher.

I dont think being home schooled will inhibit her social success in the long run; but its made for some pretty rough adjustment in her first few years away from home.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

In Jr. High we a friend of a friend was home schooled. When all 3 of us hung out he constantly showed off his knowledge of science & math. But when it came to common sense, world events, or even what was currently "cool" the kid was lost. And like TheE, if both me and my friend disagreed with him, it usually resulted in him crying and going home. Jr. High age.

Heh, my first year of High School I was stalked by a home schooled kid (he had been homeschooled up until High School) who didn't understand the meaning of "No", "Fuck No" and various other versions of "No" that made it very clear that I would rather stab myself in the eyes with hot fire pokers than go out with him.

I seriously got calls ALL the time from him. He was always like, "HEY do you want to go to Youth Group with me, and then to the Movies?!" Not saying that all Home Schooled kids were like this.. but he was also on the cross-country team and would interject the weirdest stuff that people wouldn't hesitate to call him on. One girl made him cry when she questioned some aspects of the Christian religion (and not even that rudely). In one word and I mean this in the entire sense that I write it.. it was pathetic. I would never, ever, ever homeschool my own children.