Post Cap Training

[Fallen]

As the title states, I am looking to see what everyone has planned for their post cap EXP. Rounding out your RP skills, looking to make your character more viable, stronger offense, master a second weapon type? Lets hear it. Whether you have been capped for years, just capping, or are no where near, I would still enjoy hearing everyone's opinions and ideas. Try to state your profession/build along with your ideas, and the reasoning behind your choice.

[StrayRogue]

While I would be 2x CM at cap anyway, as any profession, this skill would be high up on my priority list. For pures I'd get 3x spells, then 1x CM.

[Fallen]

I am going to first max out perception. I capped with about 135 ranks, so it will take a while before I can fully 2x the skill as a sorcerer (0/6 per rank). I enjoy perception as it comes in handy in my character's RP, and helps a great deal when dealing with Ithzir. I then will get a fully 74 ranks of Minor Elemental so as to enjoy the variety of benefits the extra spell ranks will bring.

After that, I will start my way towards gaining the needed spell ranks in the other two circles to get that 540(ish) max CS.

That should do me for a couple years.

[Danical]

I'm trying to get 1x CM with my pure bard. 30 more ranks to go.

Then I'll work on dodge for the extra DS. Suppose I might back finish 2x spells at some point.

[Lassiter 506]

As a pure cleric, I am working on 1x'ing Dodge. Allows me to ditch using a shield, maximizes xp reabsorption, will be great for upcoming maneuever overhaul which factors dodge, and the channel bonus with two open hands is quite good. In addition, there is also the factor of pomposity about walking around OTF with nothing in your hands.

[Landrion]

As a warrior I'll either be working on a new weapon style, pushing my disarm up past 1x for bashing or pushing my dodge to full 3x.

[El Burro]

After cap I plan on capping my little ranger.

As I see it, my warrior at cap will have already maxed his primary skill (big AS). In other words, what could he train in to gain AS? Spells which would take forever and are the only thing that could increase it.

Secondary and tertiary skills would be nice but why.

[Fallen]

CM, Arcane Symbols, and Magic Item use are all avenues for increasing AS.

[Sean of the Thread]

Mmm 3x spells and 1x CM (and 1x PP)

[Stanley Burrell]

After cap I plan on capping my little ranger.

As I see it, my warrior at cap will have already maxed his primary skill (big AS). In other words, what could he train in to gain AS? Spells which would take forever and are the only thing that could increase it.

Secondary and tertiary skills would be nice but why.

You could create a redux tank.

Edited to add - That still won't save you from my Shaolin shadowboxing of doom ;)

[Fallen]

So then, most are thinking to max out Spell Research at 3x, then start working on CM as pures.

Anyone have any RP driven ideas for their characters? Someone mentioned Pick Pocketing. Heh.

[StrayRogue]

I don't see what skills equate to RP beyond PP really.

I could say that my RP is about being a super powerful killer from the future, hence why I'd max my combat skills ASAP, but thats a little silly...

[Stunseed]

For Stun, at cap I'll have 150 ranks of PF, and 80 spells. I will more than likely work on some Summoning Lore, 2x CM and then I'm going to start gaining back THW like Stunseed version one had ( bastard-axe ftw ), then begins the Dodge beast.

Keyvon, 3x spells ( currently at 2.75x ), 1x shield use, and then bumping CM.

[Fallen]

I could say that my RP is about being a super powerful killer from the future, hence why I'd max my combat skills ASAP, but thats a little silly... >>

A pure picking up a different weapon type (That isn't archery). A square learning Spell aiming to make use of wands, ect.

[StrayRogue]

I'll probably go 2nd weapon style (OHE), shield, max some minor skills that will be nearly maxed (Perception, Ambush, PT, Dodge), then begin on some minor spell training (430/120).

[Fallen]

To clarify on my point of skills for RP, any skill (aside for perhaps PP) will be beneficial to the character in some way, shape or form. What I meant was, instead of going for complete optimization immediately, one might deviate from the quickest path for the most gain to pick up a skill that they would enjoy for the sake of something different, or because their character's RP dictates they would excell at said skill.

Am I doing this? Not really. Evarin considers himself extremely perceptive, though beyond that, the CvC gains from 2x perception are truly worth the cost alone. Were I to start picking up a ton of MOC ranks because I believe Evarin would slash like a madman at every creature in the room with his paingrip..THAT would be an RP based training path.

[Sean]

I could say that my RP is about being a super powerful killer from the future, hence why I'd max my combat skills ASAP, but thats a little silly... >>

A pure picking up a different weapon type (That isn't archery). A square learning Spell aiming to make use of wands, ect.

How it is antiRP though. Once you cap and have achieved your goals you have nothing but time to sit around and work on skills you wouldn't normally do.

[Sean of the Thread]

Am I alone wanting 1x PP as a pure? I did it for one fixskills cycle before and absolutely loved it.

[El Burro]

CM, Arcane Symbols, and Magic Item use are all avenues for increasing AS.

If a warrior could 3x CM that would be the route of choice. But they can't. I wish they could.

But after cap maxing of Arcane Symbols and MIU would be like watching paint dry IMO.

[Fallen]

How it is antiRP though. Once you cap and have achieved your goals you have nothing but time to sit around and work on skills you wouldn't normally do. >>

I never meant to claim that maximizing your main skills for power is anti-rp. Nor would I. I was simply looking for those deviating from the standard path in the name of RP.

[Fallen]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen
CM, Arcane Symbols, and Magic Item use are all avenues for increasing AS.


If a warrior could 3x CM that would be the route of choice. But they can't. I wish they could.

But after cap maxing of Arcane Symbols and MIU would be like watching paint dry IMO. >>

Uhm..Why? Walking around with an hour + of Bravery, Heroism, Strength, Phoen's Strength, Zealot, Benediction, ect sure sounds like fun to me. Spell tanking squares are damn near invincible.

You are all but immune from Physical attacks already, you are in plate and have a TON of magic padding against Warding attacks, and your armor/spells/and skill bonuses aid against maneuver attacks. Good stuff.

[El Burro]

I can already do all of that. The extra training would only add spell duration and allow me to wear more in spell burst areas (a good point).

My point is warriors at cap are already uber :)

[Danical]

Quote:
Uhm..Why? Walking around with an hour + of Bravery, Heroism, Strength, Phoen's Strength, Zealot, Benediction, ect sure sounds like fun to me. Spell tanking squares are damn near invincible.

You are all but immune from Physical attacks already, you are in plate and have a TON of magic padding against Warding attacks, and your armor/spells/and skill bonuses aid against maneuver attacks. Good stuff.

Wulfhen anyone? He's nearly impossible to kill except with feras; but then, who isn't?

[StrayRogue]

I'm pretty sure I could kill him in two hits, unless he can keep his DS over 700 forever.

[Fallen]

Unless you could stance him, he easily could. CM is an amazing skill. Were he sword and board, he would be even harder to kill.

8-10x weapon, 10x Shield, high enchant plate, wearing almost every defensive spell, have a statue, he could probably be pushing 800 in defensive. That isn't including Wizard shield and WOF.

Warriors/Rogues can have the highest DS due to CM.

Arcane symbols rocks. If they ever fix Charge item, that would be even better.

[Fallen]

Also remember that beserk will get them out of almost all status ailments aside from a ton of stacked hard RT.

Evarin just killed him by imploding him over and over. Sorcerers FTW.

[StrayRogue]

Um, CM doesn't add to DS. Stancing him, like level, doesn't matter, as I ambush.

[Sean of the Thread]

720

[Latrinsorm]

My point is warriors at cap are already uber :):yeahthat:

I'm going to be bumping my warrior from 1x to 2x dodge because I like him with a tower shield, then 2x Thrown (from 0x), then 2x MoC (from 1x), then probably 2x perception (from 1x).

My other warrior will get spells until his redux starts taking a hit.

[Artha]

Why thrown?

[GS4Khistian]

Um, CM doesn't add to DS. Stancing him, like level, doesn't matter, as I ambush.
I'm pretty sure CM still adds +2 to your defensive DS for every two ranks.

My plans with Khistian post cap are to take his fire lore to 100 ranks and pick up some combat maneuvers. I'm also really looking at picking up some shield training as a long term goal.

[Stunseed]

< Why thrown? >

Many creatures have horrid ranged DS. That combined with the ability to convert your weapon's DF into that DS by throwing it ( Warriors wbond makes their weapon return to their hand ) is a pretty sick motion.

As stated earlier, Wulfhen's a prime example by throwing an imflass claid.

[Danical]

Um, CM doesn't add to DS. Stancing him, like level, doesn't matter, as I ambush.

I'm pretty sure he's at 2x perception so I don't rightly know how much pushdown you'll get. I've never ambushed cappers before so I really have no idea.

I want to say his offensive DS is generally around 500-600 for invasions, IIRC.

I do know, however, that Wulfhen excels at RPing duels so you might want to take him up on that if you've got beef with him.

[Latrinsorm]

CM does not add to DS and has not since GSIV started.
Even when CM did add to DS, it was 1 DS per 2 ranks.

I probably wouldn't use my bonded weapon hurling on my tank warrior. I'd be mostly getting it so I could disarm, grab, and chuck the weapon back at the creature, because that would please me greatly.

The little warrior would use his (yet-to-be-)bonded maul though, because maul + head + no DS = KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE.

[Danical]

Wulfhen has a maul bandolier . . . it's sick and wrong when I give him tonis.

And I'm pretty sure CM doesn't add to DS anymore.

[Danical]

Also, Warriors have access to sunder shield which is all kinds of retarded good when followed by a thrown hammer (spear to eye is mo betta) to the dome.

[Soulpieced]

Here was my plan as a bard. Below are completed tasks, below below are in progress and in the future.

.


1x air lore
2x shield use
1x telepathy/manipulation lore
1.5x'ish CM

.

2x spells
1.5-2x harness power
Undecided after that.

[Sean of the Thread]

5x life.

There is this thing called life dude.

[Soulpieced]

I was capped when GS3 transferred to GSIV. What else am I supposed to do?

[Sean of the Thread]

Get laid? (jk)

[Soulpieced]

Ouch, just ouch.

[Stretch]

Skills I've picked up post cap:

Bump dodge from 2.5x to 3x
10 ranks of MOC
101 ranks of pickpocket
Bump AS/MIU to 30 each

Next on tap:
CM from 1x to 2x
OHE from 0x to 2x

That will take...oh...3,750,000 experience.

[Drinin]

3 more level until I cap, so . . .

First off will be going from 1xCM to 2x CM and lore (15 ranks of manipulation just in case I ever want to focus 1030). Second will be dodge. After that I'll spend my physical tp's on physical fitness and my mental tp's picking up some more spells (MnE to max out AS/DS of 425/430, then Bard the rest of the way). That should take about 6 years to do, so I think that's far enough in planning.

[Asha]

Once you've capped you can think about becoming a war sorc.
It's fast as fook to learn all the skills eg. OHE, ranged or OHB {speaking from sorc pov}.
If you're training was planned well you'll have maxed all your professional skills and you'll have forever to diversify.
The main thing is to try and draw new things, excitement from the hunt.
Becouse for a hundred trains you've probably done the same thing over and over again.
It's an amazing new world once you've capped man. It's a time to relax and do what you've always wanted.
In my experience anyhow.

[Renian]

Upon cap, I'll...

2x CM
3x Hiding
3x Dodge
2x Shield
Get 60 more ranks in Armor Use for Full Plate.

And then I'm not sure. I may get First Aid and Survival back to 1x (I'm migrating them out to become spellburst-immune when wearing 101, 103, 106, 202, 401, 406, 414, 503 and 509). I'll probably then look to either 2x PP, 3x perception or pick up THW (badass), Brawling (katars), Blunts (stars), or ranged (no encumbrance RT).

[Shari]

When I cap Jesae...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, okay. If I ever DID get Jes to cap, I'd have her pick up pick pocketing and lockpicking. Why? RP, of course. I would love to have her be able to finally steal <coughfromEdaarincough> and get away with it (likely not, but what the hell). The lockpicking just because I could totally see Jes digging through her corset, pulling out one of those vultite corset stays, and opening a box.

[Fallen]

Once you've capped you can think about becoming a war sorc.
It's fast as fook to learn all the skills eg. OHE, ranged or OHB {speaking from sorc pov}.
If you're training was planned well you'll have maxed all your professional skills and you'll have forever to diversify.
The main thing is to try and draw new things, excitement from the hunt.
Becouse for a hundred trains you've probably done the same thing over and over again.
It's an amazing new world once you've capped man. It's a time to relax and do what you've always wanted.
In my experience anyhow. >>

I truly cant justify doing crazy stuff when there is so much to be done to lend considerable power to one's character.

3x Spells

That is the key. Once you have done that, then you can start filling in the rest.

[AestheticDeath]

Yeah but... you can 3x spells by cap, not have to wait for post cap.

[Hulkein]

I'd probably go 5x in Real Life at that point.

[Fallen]

Yeah but... you can 3x spells by cap, not have to wait for post cap. >>

Well, I am sure theoretically you could, though your character would be hurting quite badly. I am unaware of anyone that capped in the GS4 era that was FULLY 3xed.

[Latrinsorm]

My empath's going to be...

...but she never hunts. :D

[Asha]

It's clear any CS over 515 for a sorc is just overkill man.
With your armour and padding, you can really afford to branch out in your training.
I'm guessing your MIU and AS are perfect now so wtf, go some MOC or weapon.
If you really want to stick to non offensive then for the rest of your life you can spend 64PTPs on MnS to gain that imaginary uncapped 102 gain!

[Fallen]

I am only .5 MIU. I paid a lot of points to have my perfect stats (aside from Inf). Evarin will ALWAYS work to make himself more difficult to kill, more powerful, and more capable in any situation.

I have 5 ranks of MOC from an enhancive item to aid with Focused Implosion and Fire Spirit. I wont be getting any more.

[Asha]

I found hiding to be good in PvP.
While they're typing search I'm prepping 720..
(this is somewhere you don't want to cast 435, 420 or 720)
At 101 ranks in this I found 70% didn't see me hide and if they did they'd have to type point.
After cap I just thought about PvP since no critter could do shit.

[Asha]

I mean 410 not 420!

[Fallen]

Hiding < Invisibility

[TheEschaton]

When I capped, I played a bit more to get enough experience to bump the necessary lores up to make chrism gems with Holy Receptacle. After that, I achieved everything I wanted to RP wise, so I am working on the 3x spell thing, but since I was doing 2.5 anyways, that might not take all that long.

-TheE-

[StrayRogue]

I'm pretty sure CM still adds +2 to your defensive DS for every two ranks.


You'd be wrong.

[Danical]

Here was my plan as a bard. Below are completed tasks, below below are in progress and in the future.

.


1x air lore
2x shield use
1x telepathy/manipulation lore
1.5x'ish CM

.

2x spells
1.5-2x harness power
Undecided after that.

You posted being 2x CM and something about peons on the official bard folder . . . have you gone to the pure build now?

[Askip]

My capped mage already has some odd skills for a wizard - 1x in both survival & first aid, and 24 ranks SMC.

I've recently added two cman disarm ranks to help him hang onto his runestaff, but since he is still 30 spell ranks shy of of 3x I went back to getting those.

Question: would a third cman disarm rank allow him to disarm the Ithzir, or does he need four or five ranks for that?

Thanks,
Askip

[Jolena]

Post cap, I'll most likely look into some training in either thrown weapons or archery for Jolena. I've always thought it would be fun to have a thrown weapon user and it would fit Jo's personality to have her chucking daggers at a creature from the shadows. Aside from that, I've not really thought much into it. I think at cap, I will be less and less motivated to gain experience and more motivated to simply enjoy the game and the RP involved, but who knows.

[Latrinsorm]

Without significant CM training, you're probably not going to be able to disarm like-level opponents even with 5 ranks.

[Soulpieced]

I swapped a few ranks of CM for spells. However, the concept of a "pure" bard is stupid, and does not apply based off of the amount of skills I have.

[Askip]

<< Without significant CM training, you're probably not going to be able to disarm like-level opponents even with 5 ranks. >>

Yeesh, the cost of the CM ranks just to acquire the skills is already ungodly for mages, I may leave it as-is then.

If I have not used this year's fixskill by the time the next one comes around, I can test this and then fixskill back the next day.

:D

[StrayRogue]

I'd have the 5 ranks just to help prevent me from being disarmed.

[Soulpieced]

I agree with Stray in that any runestaff (or sword and board) sorcerer or any pure for that matter, should put all CM points towards CMAN disarm.

[Danical]

I swapped a few ranks of CM for spells. However, the concept of a "pure" bard is stupid, and does not apply based off of the amount of skills I have.

Well, before you mentioned on the officials (more than 6 months ago) that using 1030 as a primary mode of hunting (i.e. pure) is essentially for pussies. Then you recently posted your 1030 script and dropped 50 ranks of CM . . .

How is being a pure (i.e. hunting in guarded with the most powerful CS spell in the game) bard stupid? Additionally, if it's so stupid, why have you changed your skills around to support 1030 as your primary attack?

Oh, I also don't give a shit about how many skills/exp you have since being a pure bard is soley defined by a skillset.


On Topic: Hurray for sonic weapons having immunity to disarm. However, disarm training is key for other professions or bards using non-sonics.

[Latrinsorm]

Saying a pure bard is stupid is like saying a pure empath boneshatterer is stupid.

[Soulpieced]

I didn't directly say it was for pussies. Training 2x spells at the expense of other necessary skills is stupid. Some exmaples of this would be having no CM, 1x in a weapon type, not having a secondary form of attack other than CS, etc. The other "stupid" idea of 2x'ing spells as a bard is not getting any elemental.

In other words, if you can 2x spells as a bard fine, just don't do it at the expense of being able to do anything else, which is pretty much what the case is going to be for any bard under level 80-90'ish.

[Latrinsorm]

Training 2x spells at the expense of other necessary skills is stupid.Do you really think you wouldn't be able to get by on just disrupting and unraveling?

[Soulpieced]

I never said that. Being as I also have the highest bard CS in the game, I know exactly how powerful it is. BUT, lacking all of the other skills that is necessary to have the maximum spells is not necessarily the best choice to have a "powerful" character.

[Danical]

I didn't directly say it was for pussies.
You're right. I believe the exact word you used was "pansy". Could be wrong though.


Training 2x spells at the expense of other necessary skills is stupid. Some exmaples of this would be having no CM, 1x in a weapon type, not having a secondary form of attack other than CS, etc.

Any pure will 2x weapon/1x shield at least. It's also very easy to progress from lvl 41 and on with just 1030/1013 usage. CM isn't really that necessary until you hit the bowels or OTF. It's really easy to avoid hunting grounds with maneuvers.



The other "stupid" idea of 2x'ing spells as a bard is not getting any elemental.

100% agree. Krakii thinks it's a great idea; I think he's nuts.


Being as I also have the highest bard CS in the game, I know exactly how powerful it is.

I had the highest possible bardic CS (only a DE would have a higher CS due to 5 more AU bonus over a BG) long before you even started moving to 2x spells. But as you know, it's wildly unnecessary, so I moved back to 74 MnE and 100 Bard which was higher than yours as of three months ago. Also, you didn't have 75 ranks of manip last I saw your lore training. What do your skills look like now?

I'm not trying to be confrontational; I just think you're blowing smoke up my ass.



On Topic: Pures should really look into getting 1x PT to fend off Call Wind effects. I had no idea it helped and since going to 1x PT it's been an incredible boon.

[Soulpieced]

Elemental Lore - Air...............| 200 100 100
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 175 75 75
Mental Lore - Telepathy............| 108 26 26

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 75 75

Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 121 121

You weave another verse into your harmony, directing the sound of your voice at an Ithzir seer.
CS: +509 - TD: +385 + CvA: +19 + d100: +27 == +170
Warding failed!
An Ithzir seer reels under the force of the sonic vibrations!
Sound waves disrupt for 78 damage!
... 65 points of damage!
The Ithzir seer's neck explodes launching his head into the air.
The Ithzir seer falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.

You swing a sonic short sword at a war griffin!
AS: +570 vs DS: +323 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +56 = +327
... and hit for 65 points of damage!
Shot knocks the war griffin's head back by pushing on the inside of the skull!
The war griffin crashes to the ground, motionless.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.

[Danical]

1) You should drop down to 74 MnE because 425 caps at 74 ranks.
2) I call bullshit on your skills.

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 74 74

Spell Lists
Bard...............................| 100 100

You weave another verse into your harmony, directing the sound of your voice at a cinder wasp.
CS: +503 - TD: +203 + CvA: +25 + d100: +95 == +420
Warding failed!
A cinder wasp reels under the force of the sonic vibrations!
Sound waves disrupt for 228 damage!
... 195 points of damage!
The cinder wasp's right leg crumbles briefly and explodes in a shower of gore.
The cinder wasp totally ignores its missing leg, attacking with complete concentration.
The cinder wasp careens to the ground and crumples in a heap.


How could you only have a 509 CS with that skillset? Bullshit.

[Soulpieced]

Aura (AUR): 100 (20) ... 100 (20)
Influence (INF): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I will be a happy panda indeed if I ever get the oppurtunity to think about post-cap training for any of my characters.

[Danical]

Gotcha, makes perfect sense now.

Bullshit retracted.

[Soulpieced]

However, on your bullshit note, I am getting ~513 CS when calculating manually. What am I doing wrong?



Level 100 * 3 300
100 bard ranks at 1 100
20 Bard ranks at .75 15
1 bard rank at .5 0.5
66 elemental ranks at 1/3 22
9 elemental ranks at .1 0.9
30 inf + 20 aur div 2 25
targeting +50 50

[Latrinsorm]

When you're calculating the diminishing benefits for spells, use (level +1), so you'd have 101 ranks at full benefit. Thus the math goes like 300 + 101 + 15 + 22.333 + .8 + 20 + 50 for 509. (Each part is rounded individually.) The same for Gnimble, only he has 16 less from bard sphere and 10 more from Aura bonus, so 503. Influence doesn't matter at all, apparently.

[Danical]

INF has never been a factor, duh.

Bards are purely on the elemental side of things for their CS spells. We get the full 50 from 425. When you try to use 1030 on a player, it uses their Elemental TD instead of an appropriate bardic TD that creatures have been scaled for. Also, some invasion creatures (.e.g reiver archmages) haven't been scaled in this respect.

[AestheticDeath]

Yeah but... you can 3x spells by cap, not have to wait for post cap. >>

Well, I am sure theoretically you could, though your character would be hurting quite badly. I am unaware of anyone that capped in the GS4 era that was FULLY 3xed.

I don't think it would hurt to much, honestly. When I had that lvl 90~ sorcerer a few months back, I was able to hunt based purely on my CS. I used 705 and 719 for the most part. I imploded now and then just for fun, or against griffins since they still had ten levels on him, and his CS wasnt maxed. Basically I didnt need the 2x spell aiming, as I never used bolts, or limb disrupt, etc.. Implode was the closest thing and it was not something I should have used. Pain worked better more often than not.

Using a max growth placement on a dark elf sorcerer, getting all 100's and a 79 on CHA, I got enough TPs to make a sorcerer either way I normally would, either 8x magic skills for runestaff, or a little different with 1x shield use and less magic skills. Both got 303 spells, minimal sorcerous lores, 24 ranks in mana shares, 100 harness, some perception, maxed HP, and enough climb/swim. You could fit in even better skills if you werent doing max growth.
Shield plan has no spell aiming, runestaff has 1x spell aiming. I think both plans are definately viable - if you seriously wanted 3x spells by that point. Which would be my goal.

[I.I.]

Granted I didn't have 3x spells by cap, but I was fairly close. It's definately doable and I don't think it hurt my training at all. And about post-cap training...

So far I've gotten:
3x spells
2x Sorcerous Lores
1x PF

Next:
either dodge or more magic ranks

[Fallen]

Are people getting PF for maneuvers? Which does it aid against? Call Wind? What else?

[Danical]

Probably other various maneuvers but I wouldn't know.

I do, however, know the spell Call Wind on the officials states PF helps and since going from 20 ranks to 101 I've found a major difference concerning RT/Stance Force/Prone.

[I.I.]

Yeah, I got it to help with both the Adepts/Griffin call winds as well as the Griffins Screech which it also aids in reducing.

[StrayRogue]

INF has never been a factor, duh.



INF or Charisma was a factor in GS3, I believe.

[Danical]

. . . Griffins Screech which it also aids in reducing.

I don't think it helps with the screeches at all. I thought they stated on the officials that it was purely level based now.


INF or Charisma was a factor in GS3, I believe.

This may very well be the case, but I never used bardic CS in GSIII.

[crb]

CM training is the #1 thing I recommend. With 3 ranks of CMAN Disarm I only get disarmed by jans on open rolls. Additionally I can disarm like heralds or initiates at times, but its not effective, just for fun.

Really though, the different in survivability from 0 CM ranks to the 29 I now I have is astounding. Every manuever hits less or not at all.

Before the training the two ways I'd die would be griffin drops and construct crushes. Now I just don't die. If I get picked up I still got the same chance of landing on my head, but now the griffins fail to pick me up when they try like 90% of the time, I'm talking outright dodges, but also the ones where they drop you right away for just a scratch. Constructs are the same, outright dodges mostly.

Additionally hunting is easier because I dodge most adept & herald call winds outright, if I do get knocked over even by a griffin it is usually not to offensive and I get only a few seconds of RT. Same with ewaves.

So ya, I would train in CM, atleast to 24 ranks.

I'm not even 2.5x spell trained yet. Though that is my current focus, my CS sucks, especially considering that as a dwarf I'm at a 13 point deficit with dark elves to begin with. But its good enough to hunt there and I'd rather have all my defensive abilities.

[I.I.]

Additionally hunting is easier because I dodge most adept & herald call winds outright, if I do get knocked over even by a griffin it is usually not to offensive and I get only a few seconds of RT. Same with ewaves.

The major factor in dodging call wind and the creature maneuver equivalent is Physical Training, not sure what other skills/stats play a minor role in resisting those but I do know that CM doesn't play a huge role.

[crb]

You absolutely sure about that? Because going back years to gs3 it was always level & CM, plus there is the fact that, like I said, I went from getting nailed to dodging and the only thing that changed was my CM ranks. This isn't a one hunt observation, this is since around May until now. But sure, I suppose that GMs took a skill that was never involved in such formulas before, made it the most important thing, and made the traditional skills relatively unimportant.

I just know what works for me and what works in OTF.

[Drakam]

once my ranger reaches cap. my goals afterwards is 2x in brawling as my training in CM has been taking those TP's. he'll also be learning more lores and spiritual mana control so he can be skilled in adding elemental resistance to any type of leather-based armor. He'll also take up more 1st aid as well to help with skinning.

[I.I.]

Directly from the website...


The following factors aid a target in defending against Call Wind: caster/target level, Dexterity & Strength stats, Physical Fitness, encumbrance, Mobility, Prayer, and Song of Luck.

[Danical]

PF really really really helps. I can confirm this.

I also run wiz strength, mobility and song of luck nearly all the time but going from 20 ranks to 101 ranks of PF made much more difference than any of the previously mentioned.

[crb]

Directly from the website...
It doesn't say it is the main factor though does it, it merely lists it as a factor.

I'm not saying it doesn't help, but you said it was the main factor and inferred that CM shouldn't be helping at all, when it is obvious that CM does help.

You also have to consider what is more efficient. 80 ranks of physical fitness for this manuever, or 30 ranks of CM that is a factor in nearly every manuever, and allows you to get CMAN skills. Especially for a pure.

Of course who knows what'll change with that manuever overhaul.

[Latrinsorm]

when it is obvious that CM does help.Well, it's not listed. Do you have any rigorous data showing that CM does help?

[I.I.]

It doesn't say it is the main factor though does it, it merely lists it as a factor.

Ok, your right. I might be wrong about it being a major factor. But I and everyone else that trains in the skill agree that it helps an enormous amount. The fact is though that it is the only skill that you can train in to increase your chances against it, and I didn't say that CM didn't do anything for it, I said that it didn't have a very big role...you notice that CM wasn't listed on the items that can help you defend against Call Wind? I'm not saying I'm right, or that the stuff on the website is always right, but there are a lot of maneuvers that don't take CM into account at all.

[Fallen]

Griffin shreeks are also able to be defended against by something squares train in. At level 100 I still get a great deal of 20 second hits, yet my square hunting partner rarely gets over 5-7 when hit.

[crb]

but there are a lot of maneuvers that don't take CM into account at all.

Well since picking up 30 ranks in CM every single OTF manuever hits me less often, not at all, or without as much force, except seer quakes. If CM doesn't factor in I should go to Vegas because my luck is unbelievable.




Griffin shreeks are also able to be defended against by something squares train in. At level 100 I still get a great deal of 20 second hits, yet my square hunting partner rarely gets over 5-7 when hit.

I rarely get over 5-7 either, and often I get 0 seconds, the only ones that can hit me for 20 seconds are the level 105 ones.

[Danical]

I could have sworn on the officials they said Screeches only had a level component.

I will say that the vast majority of the high level RT screeches come from higher spawn Griffins.

[AestheticDeath]

You guys saying there are griffins spawning at lvl 105 rather than 100?

[Danical]

Creatures on BCS spawn up to 5 greater than base level . . . IIRC.

[Shalla]

Symbol of courage, Bravery, Heroism (I think) helps with griffin shrieks, like they do with sheer fear.

[Shalla]

I think discipline plays a role too.

[Celephais]

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u222/GuinnessKMF/ThreadRevival-Batman.jpg
:hug2:

[Shalla]

You realize the irony of your post right?

[NocturnalRob]

You realize the irony of your post right?

mmmm....+1

[Celephais]

You realize the irony of your post right?
Clearly. Hence the hug :) You do realize you're replying to a post that's over a year old.
Had less to do with the postcount, more to do with the "Googled post revival and saw a batman picture so it won unilaterally"

[Fallen]

Unfortunately, no stat or bonus plays a role against defending a griffin shriek. I had thought Influence did but a GM told me it does not. It is based (loosely?) off the warcry system, and one of the biggest defenses you can have against Griffin Shrieks is knowing how to warcry.

In other words, short of Heroism scrolls you're not going to boost your defenses against this maneuver. It is just something you have to suck up in OTF.

[Shalla]

It's irrelevant whether the thread is a year old, or 5 years old. The thread is about post-cap training, and the game still exist, therefore, post-cap training discussion is never over. I came across something that I felt would contribute to the discussion - so I posted. It has nothing to do with post count, I couldn't care less really.

[Shalla]

Unfortunately, no stat or bonus plays a role against defending a griffin shriek. I had thought Influence did but a GM told me it does not. It is based (loosely?) off the warcry system, and one of the biggest defenses you can have against Griffin Shrieks is knowing how to warcry.

In other words, short of Heroism scrolls you're not going to boost your defenses against this maneuver. It is just something you have to suck up in OTF.

From my experience, it prevented me from getting 20 rt, instead giving me less than 15. It's been awhile since I had 20 rt from it.

Edit: Unless it's GM favouritism, which would count as defense against griffin shrieks. j/k

[Asha]

Just slam.

[Fallen]

What is this, "it", you mention?

[Celephais]

It's irrelevant whether the thread is a year old, or 5 years old. The thread is about post-cap training, and the game still exist, therefore, post-cap training discussion is never over. I came across something that I felt would contribute to the discussion - so I posted. It has nothing to do with post count, I couldn't care less really.
http://storymode.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/my_serious_business.jpg

[Shalla]

I <3 my post-count.

[Asha]

Your post count is weak!

[BigWorm]

Unfortunately, no stat or bonus plays a role against defending a griffin shriek. I had thought Influence did but a GM told me it does not. It is based (loosely?) off the warcry system, and one of the biggest defenses you can have against Griffin Shrieks is knowing how to warcry.

In other words, short of Heroism scrolls you're not going to boost your defenses against this maneuver. It is just something you have to suck up in OTF.

Obvously, this doesn't apply here being a post-cap, but it seems to me like level is the biggest factor. I've also found Bravery to work to at least reduce the RT and I would be surprised if Heroism and Dauntless don't help as well, but those are much harder to get (215 scrolls are super rare and I've never seen a 1606 scroll). I also would be surprised if NO stats have an effect. I know you "heard from a GM", but in my experience some of them can be wrong/confused/lying.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I personally, have never gotten roundtime from a griffin shriek in OTF.

But I'm badass that way.

[TheEschaton]

never? My cleric gets anywhere from 5-about 13 seconds.

-TheE-

P.S. All your post counts are belong to us.

[Fallen]

Perhaps luck song plays a factor in it. You mean as a bard, right?

As to levels, you're absolutely right. I simply meant in terms of OTF, you will never be able to level your way past the problem. One of the problems, and the goals of a hard cap. But Storm Griffins and the like? Definitely.

[Fallen]

never? My cleric gets anywhere from 5-about 13 seconds.

-TheE-

P.S. All your post counts are belong to us.

Yaaay Heroism! Are you voln as well? Symbol of Courage of course helps. Between the two that should prove to be a considerable amount of defense.

[Shalla]

Thats what I said! and if discipline doesn't help, it damn well should!

[Fallen]

Nope. No stat was listed as a factor to help defend against it.

A Capped volner Warrior who is mastered in warcries and is wearing heroism is in the best shape to deal with screeches.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

never? My cleric gets anywhere from 5-about 13 seconds.

-TheE-

P.S. All your post counts are belong to us.

Yeah never. To be honest though, I've never once set foot there either. I capped by getting what very little xp I could from the bowels and picking boxes for the last 4 levels or so (and I think 2 or 3 trips to the Temple on Teras). I'm sure I'd get the same as everyone else :)

[BigWorm]

Giffin RT lock was one of the things that pissed me off the most in OTF. The griffins themselves weren't much of a problem, but when a seer or adept started blasting at me while I sat there in RT, bad things happen.

My solution is to hunt Nelemar instead, where I die much less, especially from cheap ass stuff like a 101 endroll leading to a crystal-edged weapon flare. Except now I have to watch out for voids from level 103 sentries and major e-waves from level 105 greater water elementals, but I can run from those for now.

[TheEschaton]

Nah, I'm CoL. Fuck undead.

[Celephais]

A Capped volner Warrior who is mastered in warcries and is wearing heroism is in the best shape to deal with screeches.
I'd say anyone with haste...

[Kitsun]

The upcoming Spirit Lore review has me stumped about how I want to place my cleric's and empath's lores.

For the cleric, I was thinking 47 Religion, 65 Blessing and 90 Summoning. That would give me enough Summoning for the new long distance locate and super group Silence. Blessing would give more chances for Benediction bonus, group Heroism, bonus Deep Blues. But my religion would go down like 25 points, meaning I'm not sure if it would really spank some combat effectiveness.

Alternatively, if I gave up the long distance Locate, I could bump the religion back up to 60 (making it only 10 ranks lower than I have it now) and moving the Blessing to 82 to give more chances for all the blessing goodness.

The empath only needs Blessing and Summoning. I'm leaning towards going 202 Blessing lore just for INSANE Troll's Blood, persistent Spirit Strike and the other stuff.

[Fallen]

I think 90 ranks of Summoning is a bit much, go with the next benchmark below it.

[Rathain]

Yaaay Heroism! Are you voln as well? Symbol of Courage of course helps. Between the two that should prove to be a considerable amount of defense.

Symbol of courage, dauntless (comparable bonus to heroism), song of valor, heroism, bravery, and strength of will all provide a bonus (along with the warcry skill itself). From their tone though, it sounded like symbol of courage and song of valor provided a smaller bonus than the other spells listed. I think their rationale was along the lines of, "Any spell that strengthened the testicular fortitude of your character." Of those listed though, only empaths have self cast access to three (barring any self mana items.)

[Kitsun]

I think 90 ranks of Summoning is a bit much, go with the next benchmark below it.

Yeah, I guess I'll be doing plan B of 60R/82B/60S. I was just dying to annoy some friends as far away as possible though.

[droit]

I could use some post-cap advice. I just hit cap with my ranger, who I'm turning into a more magic-heavy build. He's got 71 ranger spell ranks, 36 summoning lore ranks, and 101 CMAN ranks. I was thinking of alternating training 5 ranks of CMANs then 1 spell. Is this a good idea, or should I focus more on CMANs for defensive purposes?

[Fallen]

I would say if you JUST hit cap, do something you always wanted to have more ranks in that's cheap. It is really easy to get burned out at cap. If you can pick a skill that you can advance quickly until you get used to this rate of progression, you may be more likely to stick it out.

Remember, if you're a magic heavy build, you will be getting back 3 PTPs per 2.5k exp. Put those physical returns to good use by training in things which cost mostly physical skills. Converting at cap is painfully slow. Better to pick up the physical skills first, even if they seem a bit lower on the priority list.

Oh, and congrats for capping.

[BigWorm]

I just made 99 two days ago, so I'm gearing up for the post-cap grind. As a locksmithing rogue, I'm working on getting traps high enough that I can safely get the highest trap currently in the game (-480), which I should be very close to by the time I hit 100. Next, I want to max out locks so that I don't have to use wedges any more and can learn a lot more from picking by minimizing when I need lore. After than, I want to fill out the skills that I'm 1.5x or 1.75x in right now (PT, CM, Ambushing) to 2x.

Long term, I'm considering on whether I should focus on getting dodge higher that 2x or going for more armor for full plate (and hauberk spell hinderance eventually). After I fill out all the skills I've been training in already, I'll be working on picking up more spells, which should keep me busy indefinitely.

I have a really balanced build right now (less than 100 PTP to MTP), and most of the skills I'm looking at training in have balanced costs as well, so I'm probably going to try to keep my converting to minimum for a while, but spells are obviously all mental so that will throw me back into that direction.