Help Requested

[SayGoodbye]

Near cap rogue, getting ass handed to him basically in OTF.

| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 295 195
Armor Use..........................| 190 90
Combat Maneuvers...................| 300 200
Edged Weapons......................| 298 198
Ambush.............................| 292 192
Physical Fitness...................| 197 97
Dodging............................| 294 194
Arcane Symbols.....................| 99 23
Magic Item Use.....................| 99 23
Harness Power......................| 5 1
Disarming Traps....................| 294 194
Picking Locks......................| 295 195
Stalking and Hiding................| 294 194
Perception.........................| 237 137
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 120 30
First Aid..........................| 50 10
Pickpocketing......................| 294 194

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 3

Advice would be appreciated.

[TheEschaton]

You're trained in TWC. That's not gonna work. Not as a rogue, at least.

Problem solved.

-TheE-

[Jolena]

Drop the pickpocketing and get better armor, triple in hiding, fully double in perception and ambushing, get to at least 1.5x in PF for dux, and make sure you have smastery, and you might be okay in there. I don't even know why you have 10 ranks of FA, that won't do much for you ever. If you can pick up some MOC that would help as well. TWC is hard because you lose a lot of DS in the process. Having those skills I just recommended will help.

[SayGoodbye]

Thanks Jolena.

Dropping theft is out though.

Is he unfixable?

[Jolena]

If you don't have the points to spare to bump up those other skills and still wish to keep TWC, I'd say there's not much you can do to be honest. Dropping 10 ranks of FA won't give you much to work with.

[TheEschaton]

If you're unwilling to drop thieving and TWC, then yes, unless you give up locksmithing completely. I don't see the points being freed up elsewhere.

Like Jolena said, you're probably under where most rogues want to be in hiding, PT, and armor.

-TheE-

[TheEschaton]

Oh, and as a devil's advocate, I might recommend dropping locksmithing. As a rogue who can speak Guildspeak, most rogues will pick your boxes. I know I would pick your boxes for free if you asked. But that's a personal decision, and means depending on someone else.

-TheE-

[Jolena]

I want to be clear about something though. I don't personally see the point in my rogue tripling in hiding, as she does rather well at 2x, and has a good amount of dux so if she gets hit, it doesn't matter a horrible amount. However, she also has a shield and a weapon, whereas you have two weapons. In this case, hiding and being able to stay hidden is your greatest ally.

Dropping locksmithing would do the trick as well, were that an option for you. But you honestly need to up perception, ambushing and PT if you plan to be able to hit accurately and have some decent amount of protection against hits.

Edited to add: I dropped locksmithing when the switch was made to GSIV, and after a few years, picked it back up to 2x. I didn't find that it was worth losing my hunting skills to the point that they degraded, so I dropped it again and went full hunting. Its not for everyone, granted, and I realize this might not be an option for you. But as TheE has said, I've never had issues finding another rogue locksmith to pick for me at a decent (ie. discounted) if not free cost.

[TheEschaton]

HAving less than 3x hide in OTF = wtfpwned if you're the hide and ambush type. Hell, even with 3x, the war griffins are gonna find you all the time, practically.

-TheE-

[Jolena]

I skipped OTF and probably will never go there, either. I'm in the Rift for now.

[TheEschaton]

I have a cleric in OTF, and I have a friend who I hunt with often who's a rogue near cap (I think he's around 96?). Even with 307/310 running, and the blues and dims I give him, and the fact that he's got SMastery and tripled in hiding, he gets pulled out of hiding constantly. Especially when you factor in the ewaving and other hiding-disruptive actions. He'd die much more often if I wasn't quick with an unstun and auto stunmaneuvers weren't the shit.

-TheE-

[Jolena]

See, I realize my limitations and as such, I will avoid an area that is obviously not intended for those of us who like to (or in the OP's case, NEED) to hide to hunt. Hence, I'm in the Rift. If I find I need to adjust my skills to be able to hunt the Rift and its going to be more cost-efficient there than it would be to adjust skills for OTF, I'll drop something and adjust to the Rift. Its just a matter of knowing your limitations I guess.

[SayGoodbye]

Thanks for the help, both of you. Much appreciated.

[StrayRogue]

HAving less than 3x hide in OTF = wtfpwned if you're the hide and ambush type. Hell, even with 3x, the war griffins are gonna find you all the time, practically.

-TheE-

...

Jesus Christ this is almost as dumb as saying TWC is unviable in OTF.

[AestheticDeath]

What exactly isnt working for you? Is it mainly a DS issue? Thats the only real problem I can see with the build. Though I have never played a two weapon user.

The rogue I was using in OTF wore breastplate as well, and he took hits fine, though he had 2x physical. I dont think he ever got more then a minor, unless the wounds stacked. Full plate wont do any better for you on severity I dont think.

The easiest route would be to fixskills to a ranged user. You could even sack all the hiding if you wanted to do that. Just 1x armor and CM, 2x in ranged, ambush, physical and perception. Get at least 2x dodging, and take it as close to 3x as you can. Might even be able to keep the picking in there.

This is at 8.3m experience to give you an idea of what you might be able to do ranged. Though you wont have as many points to work with, its not a huge difference. I wasted alot of points with 3x perception, I have 3x hiding, and still get pulled out by griffins, especially when wounded. Enough picking to open anything. Since ranged gets rid of the parry DS, you wont need to hide, unless your trying to avoid getting hit. If you triple dodging though, and get a few outside spells, you wont have to much trouble. Unless your like me, and stay in swarms for no good reason.

(at level 100), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 180 80
Combat Maneuvers...................| 165 65
Ranged Weapons.....................| 302 202
Ambush.............................| 302 202
Physical Fitness...................| 302 202
Dodging............................| 302 202
Arcane Symbols.....................| 140 40
Magic Item Use.....................| 140 40
Harness Power......................| 25 5
Disarming Traps....................| 375 275
Picking Locks......................| 390 290
Stalking and Hiding................| 403 303
Perception.........................| 403 303
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30
Pickpocketing......................| 200 100

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4
Training Points: 0 Phy 61 Mnt (20 Mnt converted to Phy)

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Specialization I wspec1 5

[AestheticDeath]

Oh yeah post a hunting log... just because. It might just be your hunting style, rather than your character skills.

[Atlanteax]

HAving less than 3x hide in OTF = wtfpwned if you're the hide and ambush type. Hell, even with 3x, the war griffins are gonna find you all the time, practically.

-TheE-

False.

I do just fine 1x in Hiding in OTF.

Can hide on all Ithzir roughly 75% of the time (harder if there's more than 3 of them of course).

With the griffins, open ambush to the hide, then able to hide.

[Jolena]

What exactly isnt working for you? Is it mainly a DS issue? Thats the only real problem I can see with the build. Though I have never played a two weapon user.

That would have to be the only major issue he is experiencing. The ability to swing two weapons is neat, and obviously there is the advantage of doing double the damage to a creature (via 2 swings), however you lose the DS in the process. Most twc users that aren't warriors (ie. tons of dux and full plate) rely upon hiding (no see, no hit theory), MOC for multiple shots (to max out your advantage of having two weapons) and quickness (hence why they tend to use light, quick weapons). If he's experiencing issues, and its not simply a hunting style issue, the skills suggested in this thread would help him with his ability to get hit.

[Gibreficul]

Gibreficul (at level 95), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 180 80
Shield Use.........................| 197 97
Combat Maneuvers...................| 257 157
Edged Weapons......................| 294 194
Ambush.............................| 294 194
Physical Fitness...................| 198 98
Dodging............................| 294 194
Arcane Symbols.....................| 96 22
Magic Item Use.....................| 96 22
Harness Power......................| 10 2
Disarming Traps....................| 391 291
Picking Locks......................| 391 291
Stalking and Hiding................| 294 194
Perception.........................| 244 144
Climbing...........................| 105 25
Swimming...........................| 105 25

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4
Training Points: 7 Phy 15 Mnt

Gibreficul, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Focus focus 4
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Disarm Weapon disarm 1
Specialization I wspec1 4
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Surge of Strength surge 5
Cutthroat cutthroat 5

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 5




I do just fine in OTF. I avoid the war griffins, but other than that, anything in there is fair game. Whomever is saying you NEED 3x hiding, or that TWC is unviable hasn't done the research to back that. 1.5x PF isn't needed. If the style of combat you are attempting isn't working, maybe it's your tactics and approach. The character in question looked like it would work to me. Take that for what it's worth.