How Crit Padding and Heavier Armor Works

[Regimos]

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[Stunseed]

10x incredible crit padded brig < 0x hauberk, when it comes to crit divisor.

< I'm trying to figure out the route I want to go with armor, both type and padding wise. Mainly the only thing I'm trying to reduce the most is lame 20-30 damage insta-death crits, and I'm trying to figure out the most efficent way to do it involving armor. >

Profession would be a good start. I'd hate to say Plate if you're an Empath or something.

[Regimos]

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[AestheticDeath]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that if you use a partial armor, the uncovered parts are covered with the lower ASG. So torso chain would leave the rest of your body in brig. Does that not also give the same crit divisors as brig on those parts?

So for moving up to more hindrance and all that.. your only protecting your chest with the higher crit divisors. I really see the head and neck areas as the most important to protect against crits, limbs dont cause crit deaths, and torso/back is less common against creatures unless its a very high endroll, or something ambushing.

Anyhow I am interested in knowing if this is correct, if someone could let me know.

[Atlanteax]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that if you use a partial armor, the uncovered parts are covered with the lower ASG. So torso chain would leave the rest of your body in brig. Does that not also give the same crit divisors as brig on those parts?

So for moving up to more hindrance and all that.. your only protecting your chest with the higher crit divisors. I really see the head and neck areas as the most important to protect against crits, limbs dont cause crit deaths, and torso/back is less common against creatures unless its a very high endroll, or something ambushing.

Anyhow I am interested in knowing if this is correct, if someone could let me know.

Yes, but if you wear chainmail which is technically only chain on the torso, and scale everywhere else... crit divisor -wise, you are correct... however, the primary benefit here is that the entire body is protected by the chain DF.

[Tea & Strumpets]

It used to matter slightly in regard to AS/DS attacks, nowadays I'd say you are crazy if you wearing crit padding for anything other than protection against maneuver attacks.

That's all it's good for.

[Latrinsorm]

Each armor group (None, Soft Leather, Scale, Chain, Plate) has a crit divisor (5,6,7,9,11). (Raw damage +/- phantom damage from crit weighting/padding) divided by (crit divisor), truncated gives the max crit rank, so heavier armor will usually result in lower crit ranks from AS/DS resolution.

As noted, torso chain only has the chain crit divisor on torso areas, and it doesn't sound like that's where your problems are.

The very important thing to note about moving from brig to chain is that sometimes the DF goes up from scale to chain. This is further complicated by the fact that sometimes AvD goes up from brig to torso chain and sometimes down.

Crit padding is one value across all armor groups; that is to say, heavy crit padding will be 9 points of padding on robes and 9 points of padding on plate. As the crit divisor increases, padding has less of a relative effect.

If you're talking about flare/maneuver deaths, Regimos, neither crit padding nor armor group will necessarily effect flares/maneuver.

As a cleric, the most armor you can get away with while having minimized penalties is double chain, which is really not that great.

I'm going to try and copy/paste a bit of a spreadsheet I've made to deal with these calculations (these calculations exclude the dodge penalty difference between brig and chain because it's generally trivial):
Weapon bases followed by a 0 are weapon bases where both the AvD and the DF go down from brig to torso chain. (You should always wear torso chain against these.)
Weapon bases followed by a 0 with a star are weapon bases where both the AvD and the DF go up from brig to torso chain. (You should always wear brig against these.)
Weapon bases followed by a nonzero number are weapon bases where the DF goes down from scale to chain and the AvD goes up from brig to torso chain.
Weapon bases followed by a nonzero number with a star are weapon bases where the DF goes up from scale to chain and the AvD goes down from brig to torso chain. (These two will be explained at the end.)
Weapon bases followed by an ERR are weapon bases where the DF stays the same and the AvD goes down from brig to torso chain. (You should always wear torso chain against these.)
Weapon bases followed by an ERR with a star are weapon bases where the DF stays the same and the AvD goes up from brig to torso chain. (You should always wear brig against these.)

Closed Fist - 9
Sai - 0*
Cestus - 0
Paingrip - 6
Razorpaw - ERR
Blackjack - 18*
Jackblade - ERR*
Knuckle-duster - 0
Knuckle-blade - 18
Yierka-spur - ERR*
Hook-knife - 0
Troll-claw - 36
Fist-scythe - 91
Tiger-claw - 0
0 - 0
Dagger - 0*
Main Gauche - 0*
Rapier - ERR*
Estoc - ERR*
Whip-blade - ? (I don't have AvDs for the Whip-blade)
Scimitar - 120
Short Sword - 3
Katar - 88
Handaxe - 72
Broadsword - 63
Falchion - ERR*
Longsword - 0
Backsword - 0*
Katana - 32
Bastard Sword - 70
0 - 0
Cudgel - 0*
War Hammer - 0*
Mace - 0*
Morning Star - 0*
Leather Whip - 0*
Ball & Chain - 0*
Crowbill - 18
0 - 0
Flail - 77
War Mattock - 75
Quarter Staff - 8
Greatsword - 23
Battle Axe - 39
Bastard Sword - 36
Maul - 105
Flamberge - 17
Military Pick - 45
Katana - 30
Claidhmore - 23
0 - 0
Halberd - 21
Spear (1-handed) - ERR*
Spear (2-handed) - 195
Lance - 127
Javelin - ERR*
Awl-pike - 58
Jeddart-axe - 52
Hammer of Kai - 39
Pilum - 25
Trident - 28
0

For bases that have a nonzero number, the nonzero number is the success margin (endroll - 100) at which the two armors will result in equal raw damage. (Technically speaking, because raw damage is rounded, these numbers aren't exact representations of the in-game reality.) For non-starred numbers, you should wear brig below the success margin and chain above, and vice versa for starred numbers. Obviously you can't choose which armor to wear after you get hit, so the way to do it is figure out your general average success margin when you get hit and compare it to the numbers.

[Drew]

I used to be a bigger fan of torso chain than recently. Latrinsorm has just spent the time to show why it can be not that great. Torso chain has some serious AvD issues, but if you spend the time you can wear it against the right creatures. My thought is that unless you have the PPs to spend to wear crit padded torso chain you should stick with brig and get some FGB. Whatever version you get if you get it crit padded, wear that one exclusively. Crit padding will help some with the effectiveness of the armour against many attacks but the importance of crit padding when facing manuevers can't be underestimated.

[Lassiter 506]

Double open handed channeling in 10X double leathers FTW. However, if your character is a dwarf or giant with a cruddy AGI bonus, go with heavier armor. For a dwarf, also invest in a shield to hide their face.

[Lucas]

Never understood why everyone desperately tries to get these crit padded something or others. I've had some 6x exceptionally crit padded full plate once (which wiped out all my bank accounts) and to be quite frank I was disappointed. One does notice a difference and yes when I was leveling with it may have saved my life a couple of times if that. But when I really sat down and started thinking about how really effective the armor was... I quickly resold it. Why?

A.) You're wounds are lighter (that bleeder now becomes a minor etc.)- But hey I macro (F1...F10) and get herb A,B,C and voila no more bleeder

B.) Most of the critters I hunted my level rarely had death crit capability (unless done through combat manuever- and the jury's still out on whether padding does anything against CMs).

C.) My XP absorption per minute was higher and I extrapolated out that a person going from 1-100 levels can get to that 100th level perhaps 8-9 months faster using some nicely crit padded full plate in theory (using my XP absorption rate increase). But then again think about the time it takes to skin/search every critter..pick up boxes, get those boxes picked, sell boxfound items, merchanting etc. The other way is to not do any of these things and just level 1-100 levels using standard 4x gear, and maybe toss in some spells. If you're only goal is to reach cap then not getting crit padded armor (or at least wait until you hit rift to generate some nice silvers per hour ratios- probably the most efficient way) is the way to go (for speed and ease). Also you have to remember I can make 500k easy in an hour hunting in OTF, it would take perhaps 4 days of hunting (2 hours a day) around the level 50 area to pull that off. And around level 20 it will take a week or more (just purely hunting).

Conclusion- Just worry about leveling leveling leveling when you're below level 70, 70+ start thinking about collecting coins.

[TheEschaton]

So, my 53rd level priest who I've been playing for 11 years and has less than 5m is a failure on both parts? :P

-TheE-

[Latrinsorm]

He is, after all, a Charl-atan.

[Lucas]

So, my 53rd level priest who I've been playing for 11 years and has less than 5m is a failure on both parts? :P

This is in terms of power levelers, the dynamics change completely if you're *actually* playing the game.

[crb]

Also you have to remember I can make 500k easy in an hour hunting in OTF

Hey Lucas, how?

Seriously, picking up everything sellable, singing to all gems, I cannot get close to that. Sometimes in the early mornings I can get pretty good loot but most other times the area is so overhunted that most kills you get 0 treasure and I can go through 2 full heads of mana killing probably 40-50 creatures and not get 1 box.

[Sean of the Thread]

Top Secret.