Complicated work dilemma.

[Shari]

Okay, I gotta get this off my chest because I'm so PISSED right now I gotta release it.

I work at an electronics manufacturing company. The only reason why I got the job is because my dad's best friend is the CEO. I know, I suck.

Anyhow, he and I are on really good terms and we are able to separate work from personal matters. That and I rarely even interact with him in the office. So two weeks ago he BEGS me to go down to Costa Rica to deliver parts. I've done it before and I didn't really want to go (I was supposed to go to an ASU game :( ) So when it got to the wire and there was no one else willing to go I caved.

So I go, and our plant manager or someone down in our factory screws up and forgets to contact the customs agent to wave me through with a suitcase full of parts. Long story short, I was on my cellphone half the time with our factory manager in the airport trying to fenangle my way through with the parts.

Well, we didn't get through. We'd have to contact customs to okay it on Monday (I left on Friday) So basically my trip down there was for nothing. Our managers are notorious for spending a couple grand extra to fly someone down there as a pack mule so the parts get there on Friday and don't set in customs til Monday, thus saving us two whole days, which I think is retarded but regardless....


Now to add salt to the wound, I miss my flight. My hotel has no alarm clock, no clock, no NOTHING to wake me up. I don't know how to speak spanish to inform the front desk to do a wakeup call, so I set my cellphone, which I don't find out until LATER, does not adjust to the time down there. (though strangely, it does in Hawaii and Pennsylvania) So in a panic at the airport I call the factory manager down there (the same one who picked me up at the airport and caused this whole mess to begin with) along with my boss (dad's best friend, remember?) and my husband. Needless to say, 2 flights later, they get me home.


There is a point to all this.


So now I have my cellphone bill. 107 and some odd change for all my international calls. I omitted some of the calls (the chit-chats I had with my husband) and submitted an expense report...89 dollars.

Boss walks up to me today and says, "You think its fair that we pay for all your international calls when I had to buy another flight out of there?" I didn't really know how to respond but I said no. I told him I took calls out of the total that were me talking with Scott but left the ones where I was being instructed to rip up the invoices and throw them away to sneak parts in.

I don't think he liked that but then said he didn't think it was fair that he have to pay for the calls that were made when I missed my flight. He tried to be funny and suggest that I pay the plane ticket bill and he'll pay the phone bill. I told him I would handle it.

I removed the calls I made after I missed my flight and looked at my now-expense report for 40 dollars. At that point I just figured FUCK IT, and I ripped it up. I've decided to eat the bill, but am never offering to go to Costa Rica for them again.


Did I make a wise decision? Discuss.

[Tsa`ah]

No, you screwed up ... unless taking the loss saved your job.

The fact is that they screwed up from the start. Missing a flight wasn't your fault, not getting the parts to their destination wasn't your fault, and incurring the expense to your cell account was also not your fault.

With the exception of personal calls, they are liable for the expense you incur unless you agreed to accept that expense.

What you just went through is exactly why I no longer use my own cash, credit cards, cell phone ... anything on a trip I make on behalf of my employer.

I rarely even use my own vehicles anymore. By now my employer knows that they need to give me notice before a trip (emergencies are a different story of course). If corporate wants me at another plant or customers, they know to put me in a hotel with a direct bill, they know to have a car reserved for me, they know to have the flight verified and paid for, and they know that I will never accept a call on my personal cell phone ... thus call the one they provided to begin with.

I've been "stuck" with too many expenses in the past ... the only way to avoid that is to not use any of your own cash and limit what personal resources you make available to the company.

[Wezas]

Asshole answer here:

Eat the $89 bill instead of making drama at work. It WAS your fault that you missed the flight and the company did have to pay for another flight. And I'm willing to bet it was more than $89.

If you insist on them paying the $89, they may garnish your paycheck or bill you in some way for the flight.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

What he (Tsa'ah) said ^^ It is not your fault you missed the flight if they didn't put you in a hotel with English-speaking front desk or an alarm clark. You should not be required to bring a personal item to do your job.

If it's too late to do anything about it (get a new report demanding the full amount) I would probably write a letter to my boss saying that the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth due to the lack of professionalism and that until a satisfactory conclusion is made to the bill and issue at hand, you will not be doing any more trips for the company, emergency or otherwise.

[zhelas]

Sounds like if things were going to go bad they did. Besides "Buying you a new ticket" Couldn't they pay the difference on flying you out on a different time versus "Buying a new Ticket" The cost would be what? $100.00?

Missing one's flight happens a lot. Things happen on the road and the employer knows this. You did nothing wrong.

If they send folks out traveling there should be a document explaining expense report policy and what is reimbursable and what is not.

Your Cell Phone was used on Company Time. They owe you the money regardless of the fact that you missed your plane. If you ever do this again make sure you use a company cell phone not your own.

I think you can claim your cell phone bill on your taxes as a buisness expense that was not reimbursed.

[Wezas]

I guess I'm just a cold heartless son of a bitch.

not that you all didn't already know that.

[AnticorRifling]

Next time find a land line and call collect. I'm with Tsa'ah. Never use your personal stuff for work. Ever. If you miss a deadline because you were not provided the tools to do your job that is the fault of your manager, not you.

[Sean]

Missing one's flight happens a lot. Things happen on the road and the employer knows this. You did nothing wrong.


Things happen like accidents, traffic, delays, etc. and sure they aren't your fault. Oversleeping is 100% your fault.

[CrystalTears]

I'm gonna be an asshole with Wezas :D and ask how missing the flight is not her fault? It's not her company's responsibility to make sure she wakes up in time or provide her with alarm clock.

I would have eaten the phone bill since he wasn't making an issue about the plane fare. Although I would, afterwards, ask for specific policies on expenses and traveling so that you know what they will and won't be responsible for so that it doesn't happen again.

[zhelas]

What Hotel did they put you in? Did they have to pay extra for you to have clean sheets? It certainly sounds like they went the cheap way for lodging.

[zhelas]

Things happen like accidents, traffic, delays, etc. and sure they aren't your fault. Oversleeping is 100% your fault.

True but it sounds like it was a very inexpensive hotel that does not deal with international travellers.

[AnticorRifling]

Things happen like accidents, traffic, delays, etc. and sure they aren't your fault. Oversleeping is 100% your fault.

/agree

You are responsible for your own actions, or inactivity. While it sucks your phone didn't automatically switch over with the time zone that's something you should check.


Don't get me wrong the whole thing sucks, but business is exactly that, business.

[ElanthianSiren]

Even when I'm out with my family (dinner), I bill it as an expense and write it off on taxes because the money that I recycle is my money, and my dad is half of the business. Write the 89 off of your taxes, but do like Narcissa suggested. I wouldn't state that this left a bad taste in your mouth (if it hadn't you wouldn't be writing, so that's implied). I would write a letter to your boss outlining a plan to not have this misunderstanding happen again (and keep a dated photocopy for yourself).

Request

1. Cell Phone with an itemized call list on the bill (for their records).
2. Anything else that will make travelling to Costa Rica less hellish for you (that they can reasonably provide).

-M

[CrystalTears]

True but it sounds like it was a very inexpensive hotel that does not deal with international travellers.
Probably depends on where she was sent. There are some places in Costa Rica where the best hotel still doesn't have the best amenities a Howard Johnson here would provide.

Regardless, even if she was sent to a crap hotel, not getting up on time isn't their fault.

[Wezas]

The real question:

Do you really want drama in your job over $89? Sure, you can submit your claim, and your boss can either approve or deny it.

Or you could just let it drop and just count it as a bad memory.

[Gan]

Cell phone bill is their responsibility.

Oversleeping and missing your flight is yours. You knew there was no alarm when you went to bed. Plans to adjust should have been made then... as in having someone call your cell at the prerequisite time, or setting an alarm (if one exists) on your cell phone to go off at the prerequisite time.

All in all, you did the right thing by not making a huge issue, because it would have either cost you more for the extra flight than the calls, and the possible write up/disciplinary action to follow.

That being said, I would definately not be available next time they need a parts runner unless thats stated so in your job description. How creative you should be with the excuses depends on how politically correct you want to be with regards to job longevitiy and advancement.

[Sean of the Thread]

Regardless who's fault it is for missing the flight.. it's the company's expense. As Wayne said.. business is business.. including fuck ups.

Next time call those motherfucker 1-800-COLLECT or have it in writing about using your phone for business. Better yet tell them noobs to give you a company phone for the trips.

[Tsa`ah]

Oversleeping wasn't her fault because ...

A. She doesn't speak spanish. A spanish speaking employee should have been sent ... or at least one who can ask for a wakeup call.
B. The hotel room didn't have an alarm clock.
C. The employer did not provide her with a cell phone.
D. Instead of the employer bumping her flight to a later time, thus saving the company money, they bought a new ticket.

Her mistake was using her own cell phone. Never use personal resources for work.

[zhelas]

Probably depends on where she was sent. There are some places in Costa Rica where the best hotel still doesn't have the best amenities a Howard Johnson here would provide.

Regardless, even if she was sent to a crap hotel, not getting up on time isn't their fault.

I agree that the hotels in Costa Rica may not have all the amenities. The fact that she got to the hotel and found out that there was no clock. She makes the attempt to get a wake up call to a staff that can't speak English. The only clock she has is on her Cell phone. She relys that. It sounds to me that she tried to make her plane on time. Short of staying up all night.

She also conducted work on her personal phone which everyone has already agreed that it is a no no.

Sure okay eat the bill. Claim it on your taxes. But I would definately demand to see the travel and expense report policy. If you ever travel again don't use your personal, phone, laptop, creditcard etc.

[Gan]

A good resource would be a company travel policy, if one exists. For future reference.

Edited to add: as was said in the post right above mine... ^^^

[Sean]

It's not her employers responsibility to wake her up in the morning, and if it is next time I get sent somewhere nice via my company I'm going out getting fucked up, sleeping through my flight, and then expensing them so i can grab some extra time.

[zhelas]

This whole argument can be a moot point depending on the companies travel and expense report policies.

[Gan]

I know the past two travelling jobs I worked at, waking up on time for making airline flights was my own responsibility, and stated so in the company travel policy. I've only missed one flight due to getting sick while on the west coast.

A no show at the ticket counter with no attempt at calling in a cancellation nullifies the ticket. I got lucky and had the airline issue me a credit for a layover flight but only because I was over 100k miles that year with the airline (Continental) and its normally not their policy to do so.

If your company really wanted to screw with you, they'd break out the travel policy and see if missing flights is mentioned for air travel. As it stands, your description of disorganization of the whole trip would indicate to me that either one doesnt exist (policy) or its so outdated/lacking that missing a flight is not even addressed.

[Tsa`ah]

Again, they sent a non-spanish speaking employee into a spanish speaking nation.

While I agree that she is responsible for getting to her flights and waking up on time, the company has to take responsibility for poor planning and lack of training.

[AnticorRifling]

Oversleeping wasn't her fault because ...

A. She doesn't speak spanish. A spanish speaking employee should have been sent ... or at least one who can ask for a wakeup call.
B. The hotel room didn't have an alarm clock.
C. The employer did not provide her with a cell phone.
D. Instead of the employer bumping her flight to a later time, thus saving the company money, they bought a new ticket.

Her mistake was using her own cell phone. Never use personal resources for work.


On that I will disagree. Oversleeping was her fault. It's not the responsibility of the company to wake the employee up....unless you're in the military and you have a bugle going off and zero dark thirty every morning.

[AnticorRifling]

Again, they sent a non-spanish speaking employee into a spanish speaking nation.

While I agree that she is responsible for getting to her flights and waking up on time, the company has to take responsibility for poor planning and lack of training.


Was she forced to go or did she agree to go?

[CrystalTears]

1) They had no one else.
2) She had gone for them before.
3) They asked, she caved and said yes.

While the situation sucks, they're not obligated to pay for something that they weren't directly responsible for. So the fact that he was only disputing the phone charges leaves me to believe she got off lucky and that they didn't try to get her to pay for some of the cost of the plane fare as well.

[Sean of the Thread]

Drew Can Not (3:26:46 PM): Based what I know of Shari from these boards, I wouldn't send her to Costa Rica to deliver a pencil, much less what I imagine to be lots of money worth of parts

[Tsa`ah]

Agreed to go or not, qualified or not, she went.

While I think the whole getting up on time is iffy, she did contact who she needed to contact ... they in turn should have bumped her to another flight, unless that was something she was given the contact info for and instructions/authorization to do it.

What this boils down to is, and not trying to insult Shari or anything, they sent an unqualified and untrained person to do a job they shouldn't have been doing.

Because they failed to train her in travel policy, provide her with a company cell phone, instruct her what to do in specific scenarios ... they themselves are liable for the outcome.

I don't send unqualified people on trips. I don't send people off site unless they know what is covered under company expense, who to contact for flight changes, hotel changes, car rental changes, etc etc.

Whoever was supposed to make these arrangements is the person responsible, not the untrained person they sent.

Yes, she agreed to go ... she could have said no, but that does not relieve the employer of responsibility.

[Shari]

Like I said, I'm eating the bill. I have no problem with that.

I'm just never going to Costa Rica for them again. :)


Technically, I overslept because I had no accurate way of waking up in the morning.


Basically, I did them a huge favor and it bit me in the ass. I guess I was just curious if eating the bill and refusing to fly again was the right course of action.

[CrystalTears]

Oh that's definitely your right to refuse a task, especially if it's not part of your job responsibilities to begin with. You did them a favor, it hurt you both, you won't do it anymore. They shouldn't be surprised.

[Gan]

I guess I was just curious if eating the bill and refusing to fly again was the right course of action.

IMO = Thats what I would have done in order not to escalate things to the point of me telling them to shove the job up their ass.

[Soulpieced]

I'm just mildly curious, how many different jobs have you had in the past 2 years?

[Alfster]

I think the last time I kept count she was at 84

[Drew2]

I'm just mildly curious, how many different jobs have you had in the past 2 years?

Probably less than me.

Also, shut the fuck up Soulpieced. Seriously.

[Sean]

Every lawn you mow doesn't count as a seperate job.

[TheEschaton]

I'm confused - because of the fuckup at customs, you had to stay in the hotel? Otherwise it would of been a different situation?

In that case, they're liable for your not waking up in the hotel.

Otherwise, you'd have to argue it wasn't reasonably easy to wake up on time. I think you could probably win it with the facts in your case, though, technically, the fact that your cell phone didn't change times is something you should of monitored and/or been reasonably aware of.

God, I'm starting to think like a lawyer.

-TheE-

[Gan]

Yea, legal wrangling over the price of the ticket in small claims court can be a nightmare without counsel present.


Edited to add:

With regards to recovering the additional airline ticket fee.

It is logical to think that a reasonable person would have looked for and possibly found (in this case it was found) alternatives to not having an alarm clock, such as a wake up call from the hotel desk or a personal alarm/time device.

It is also logical to think that if getting a wake up call was not an available option, then the next reasonable option would be to set the alarm on a personal alarm/time device. In this case there was one available, a cell phone.

It is also logical to think that a reasonable person would have checked/noticed if their time device was accurate in reflecting the correct time/zone that they happen to be in when setting said alarm.

Even with the language barriers presented as well as the mentioned mitigating factors, it is reasonable to think that a person, knowing their destination and travel requirements, would make reasonable preparations for performing all the required tasks that they were responsible for during the duration of the trip. Including waking up on time to catch their return flight home.

And this is without knowing what the employee travel policy states regarding airline travel responsibilities.

I dont see it standing up in any employment arbitration hearing or small claims court for recovery of the plane ticket should it have been escalated that far in tort.

[Soulpieced]

Probably less than me.

Also, shut the fuck up Soulpieced. Seriously.

I thought it was a fair question. Though I guess not everyone can have an internship at NASA and somehow end up dropping out of school and working for minimum wage.

[Shari]

ROFL. I'm not going to take them to court! I've known the guy on a personal level since I was about 5 years old! And shit, small claims court would cost more than the money I'm bitching about in the first place!

Oh, and to answer your question, Soulpieced. I filed 7 tax returns this last April. :D

I'm one glass of sangria in so I wont be able to figure out how many I've had in the last two years, easily 10 though. I was able to keep a couple jobs for over a year. ;)

[Gan]

Oh, and to answer your question, Soulpieced. I filed 7 tax returns this last April. :D


I hope you meant 7 W-2's for your tax return. Must be some good wine.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<And shit, small claims court would cost more than the money I'm bitching about in the first place!>>

That's why you sue for money + court costs.

[Shari]

Oh yeah, W-2's is what I meant to say. Heh!

Its very good wine, cause the oranges, peaches and strawberries floating in it have been stewing in the wine for a week now. :D

[Stretch]

Never spend your own money on a business trip unless you work for a Fortune 500 company that doesn't care if you even have receipts.

[Back]

Oh yeah, W-2's is what I meant to say. Heh!

Its very good wine, cause the oranges, peaches and strawberries floating in it have been stewing in the wine for a week now. :D

Its called Sangria.

You missed your flight. Eat the cost and move on.

[Asha]

I'm one glass of sangria in
:)

[Back]

Ok, I admit to not having read the last few posts on the first page.

Doh! Of course its Sangria.

[Drew2]

Proof that we compliment people in the Player's corner chat:

[10:35] Skeeter R FTW: I wish [Tsa'ah] was my boss. I'd love to not be responsible for any of my actions

[Skeeter]

QFT

[Leetahkin]

Its very good wine, cause the oranges, peaches and strawberries floating in it have been stewing in the wine for a week now. :D

That sounds really, REALLY good about now...
Hurry up 3 1/2 hours :(

[Daniel]

Fuck it. I'm getting drunk in my last two classes of the day.

[Tsa`ah]

Proof that we compliment people in the Player's corner chat:

[10:35] Skeeter R FTW: I wish [Tsa'ah] was my boss. I'd love to not be responsible for any of my actions

Were I the person sending people on trips, you would be absolutely responsible for your actions simply because I would see to it that you were absolutely qualified, equipped, and capable of making the trip.

Failing to do so would be indicative of negligence on my part, thus my responsibility when you fuck up.

[CrystalTears]

Are you fucking kidding me? You train them on how to wake their ass out of bed on time? So if someone is late waking up cause they're morons you're picking up the bill?! Resume incoming! :moon2:

Oh and fix your sig. It's broken. :tongue:

[Skeeter]

where can I send my resume?


damn, CT beat me to it.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I may not train my employees to get out of bed but I sure as fuck would make sure that the non-English speaking hotel had an alarm clock, and if they didn't, I would have gotten a travel one for my employee instead of expecting her to bring her own cell phone or buy her own alarm clock. Not to mention that if you're doing business in a non-English speaking country it's generally a good idea to look into sending someone who knows a little bit of that language.

[CrystalTears]

Not that I really want to get into an argument about it...

Okay maybe I do.

Do you really call the hotel and make sure they have an alarm clock? Do you really purchase them one if they don't? What company does that? And give me names so that I can apply because I've yet to come across a company that meticulous about making sure that an employee has no excuse to screw things up and STILL not have to foot the bill for their mishaps.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Not that I really want to get into an argument about it...

Okay maybe I do.

Do you really call the hotel and make sure they have an alarm clock? Do you really purchase them one if they don't? What company does that? And give me names so that I can apply because I've yet to come across a company that meticulous about making sure that an employee has no excuse to screw things up and STILL not have to foot the bill for their mishaps.

My dad worked for 10 years for a company called Scitex. When he went to Japan (quite frequently at that) they called in Advance to see if the hotel had any english speaking go-betweens, and if not a translator flew with my dad.

Also they sent him with calling cards (they didn't have good cell phones when he worked for them) for when he needed to call back, and they provided him with a lot of things he may need for the trip, including but not limited to a travel alarm clock and a book of Japanese words and phrases.

Because they provided all of this their company agreement with those who did business for them had very clear inclusions of what was and wasn't payable by the company. The only thing my dad ever had to pay for was the Touristy stuff he did and any meals that he spent more than his alotted amount on and the long distance to call and talk to us. So yeah, there are companies who actually have their shit together, I'm sure that comes as a big surprise to many people in this thread.

[Sean of the Thread]

Sorry your reference to someone you know and their experience isn't valid in an argument remember?

[CrystalTears]

Now don't misconstrue my question about companies having their shit together meaning that hand-holding employees through travels as common.

There are some companies, good companies, that hand you the travel policies and trust that you follow them yet don't walk you through how to travel and aren't in the position to give you cell phones, credit cards, or calling cards.

I never really argued that the company wasn't responsible for most of what happened, but as far as missing a flight because you wake up late, I consider that an employee infraction and am quite surprised they didn't try to get her to pay some, if not all, of the bill for the plane fare.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Now don't misconstrue my question about companies having their shit together meaning that hand-holding employees through travels as common.

There are some companies, good companies, that hand you the travel policies and trust that you follow them yet don't walk you through how to travel and aren't in the position to give you cell phones, credit cards, or calling cards.

I never really argued that the company wasn't responsible for most of what happened, but as far as missing a flight because you wake up late, I consider that an employee infraction and am quite surprised they didn't try to get her to pay some, if not all, of the bill for the plane fare.

I must have misinterpreted then. In this case I could go either way, but given the other circumstances surrounding her missing her flight and the fact that she had to catch that flight in the first place being a product of her company's own fuck up.. that's what makes me think she shouldn't really be paying.

In response to Xyelin.. I didn't say, "Yeah my dad worked for a company called Scitex that had their shit together, therefore, every company has their shit together." Once again, you lose at the context game. Big surprise there.

[Tsa`ah]

Are you fucking kidding me? You train them on how to wake their ass out of bed on time? So if someone is late waking up cause they're morons you're picking up the bill?! Resume incoming! :moon2:

Oh and fix your sig. It's broken. :tongue:

Heh, no.

It means they know what to do if they're going to be late for a flight for any reason. It means they know what the proceedure is.

No where did I advocate a freedom of responsibility to the traveler, I do advocate the employer be responsible enough to see the people they send off site know what the policies are and see to it that the person they send has everything at their disposal (ability as well) to perform the job.

[Gan]

Sorry your reference to someone you know and their experience isn't valid in an argument remember?

Not to mention the conclusions you draw from them.


:lol:

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Not to mention the conclusions you draw from them.


:lol:

I would have been wrong had I said, "Since my dad's company did this, this and this for him, then every company does this."

However, I'm not stupid enough to make such an ill-founded and obviously incorrect blanket statement. Using an example is one thing, using an example to make overly-generalized assumptions about the world is another. Apparently that sort of a distinction is beyond you.

[Gan]

I would have been wrong had I said, "Since my dad's company did this, this and this for him, then every company does this."

However, I'm not stupid enough to make such an ill-founded and obviously incorrect blanket statement. Using an example is one thing, using an example to make overly-generalized assumptions about the world is another. Apparently that sort of a distinction is beyond you.

Not really. It sure sounds like it hit a nerve though by your response.

Perhaps a little introspection is necessary on your part.

[thornhappy]

It's sort of their fault and it's sort of your fault.

Eating the bill is a good idea to avoid a shitstorm of trouble, if you like your job and you like your friendship with Mr. Boss.

[Rainy Day]

I may not train my employees to get out of bed but I sure as fuck would make sure that the non-English speaking hotel had an alarm clock, and if they didn't, I would have gotten a travel one for my employee instead of expecting her to bring her own cell phone or buy her own alarm clock.

I can't stand it anymore!

WHO THE FUCK TRAVELS WITHOUT A LITTLE TRAVEL ALARM CLOCK OR EXPECTS THEIR BOSS TO PROVIDE ONE?! Six bucks will get you one at the drug store!

Whew. Okay...got that off my chest. Nothing to see here...move along...

RD