lots of questions

[jpatter123]

just been doing some reviewing on my rogue preparing over the next 10 levels for the rift.. school of thought before was ambush didn't gain any bonus after 100 skill ... I have 103 ranks in it now which is slightly less then double (203 skill) is it nescessary to continue to train ambush along with everything else?
ALso after coming back from a many year hiatus I am questioning shield training because there was very little gained by shield training before except in defensive stance. My rogue is a little less then 1.5 x per train in shield now should I catch him up to 2x ? I have currently 2x in dodging. Is this a good set up?
ALso is physical training important for 1x a level or more for the redux benefit? I only have 4 spells
last thing does brawling help sweep and subdue guild maneuvers.

problem is my friend did the gs III conversion to GS IV and I am trying to fix everything like take away my pick pocketing to get the actual skills I need. Thanks for the help

[Jolena]

Going over 1x in PT is definitely a good idea for more redux. Dodging is a good idea as well, and if you 2x in it, you won't need to use a larger shield so you'd be able to drop to 1x in that skill as well, opening up some points. As to the rest of it, I've not heard anything of that nature, so I dunno.

[StrayRogue]

just been doing some reviewing on my rogue preparing over the next 10 levels for the rift.. school of thought before was ambush didn't gain any bonus after 100 skill ... I have 103 ranks in it now which is slightly less then double (203 skill) is it nescessary to continue to train ambush along with everything else?

Ambushing has no specified total amount as it once did. It is now much more linear. Basically to gain the most amount of pushdown from an attack from hiding (or via an aimed hidden attack), you need to have as much ambush training as possible. 1x is fine as long as you can muster the AS to get past the DS of the critter that won't be fully in offensive. Additionally, more ambushing training increases your chances to hit what you aim for.



ALso after coming back from a many year hiatus I am questioning shield training because there was very little gained by shield training before except in defensive stance. My rogue is a little less then 1.5 x per train in shield now should I catch him up to 2x ? I have currently 2x in dodging. Is this a good set up?


Shield training is worthwhile. 1x is enough if you 2x dodge.



ALso is physical training important for 1x a level or more for the redux benefit? I only have 4 spells


More PT is cheap. It does indeed help with redux and you'll do fine with 1x or .5x per level (I'd 1x it personally). It also helps you with stamina which is generally always in short supply.



last thing does brawling help sweep and subdue guild maneuvers.


Nope. Although you do gain a significant bonus (+30 I think) to subdue training when using a sap (a brawling weapon). Training in brawling allows you to get DS from holding the sap, but otherwise serves no purpose in guild training.

[The Ponzzz]

Well, I'm personally for mutunt builds. I hate the mundane edged, shield, dodge build. But if that's yer thing then...

2x edged
2x CMs
2x Dodge
2x Ambush
2x Perception
1x PT
1x Shield
3x Hiding
Go upto armor of choice.

CMANS:

5 ranks of Shadow Mastery or Dirt Kick/Dust Shroud, though they do not benefit AFTER the hide.
5 ranks of wspec of choice
Atleast 3 ranks of surge
Then pick what you like, assuming you have guild skills.

Reason I say 1x PT, is because the stamina gain after 40-50 ranks is non existant. And you should have enough redux by upper levels. Plus you will need to trim corners for 3x hiding.

But really, I rather 1x TWC than 1x Shield...

[StrayRogue]

That is training plan is points prohibited. I'm doubting he could 2x CM and Ambush and 3x hide as well as factor any armor training in. Unless of course he wishes to have NO other skills.

[The Ponzzz]

Yea, it's pricey. But very doable with no locksmithing.

[jpatter123]

well this is exactly where I am all around at level 63

2.8x per level picking/traps
2 x's OHE
70 ranks armor (going to go to 80 for MBP)
1.8x ambush
1.8 x Combat Manuevers
1.3 x's shield
2 x's hiding
2 x's dodging
1 x perception
.5 x physical training (going to take this up to at least 1x if not more)

general ranks that I haven't been pursuing
8 ranks blunt weapons (assume this was done for redux)
18 ranks brawling (thought this helped with guild)
10 ranks harness power
4 ranks elemental mana control
4 ranks spirit mana control
4 ranks spell research (401 -404)
6 ranks survival (do I need more of this?)
16 ranks climbing
7 ranks swimming
5 ranks first aid
1 rank trading
65 ranks pickpocketing (just reduced this from 75 and may plan on taken it to 0)

do you see any changes in these skills you'd change? Now that I am not pursuing any more spells I should be able to make up quite a few ranks of stuff I am not full up in. However I am not sure if I need to train some magic item use to get my spell burst up so I can at least hold a few spells in the rift. If I dump all the pickpocketing it will be enough to get all my armor ranks plus a 3 more ranks of physical training. should I dump some brawling too? maybe get a few ranks of multi openent or 5 ranks in two handed weapons? also is my swimming and climbing high enough? I think I am viable and have enough training points once I make the nescessary adjustments and get rid of my unneeded skills. I have 10-15 levels still or maybe more before I attempt the barrier so migration time shouldn't be a huge factor.
SOrry for all the questions and I really appreciate the time you all have taken to help out.

EDIT- oh yeah why the recomendation for 2x's perception does it help with ambush that much in GS IV? I spot most traps up to 400 and anyone hiding , I can forage most herbs as well at 1x.

[The Ponzzz]

1.8x ambush
1.8 x Combat Manuevers
1.3 x's shield


Drop the top two down to 1.5x, and shield to 1x. The benefit for what yer doing is so small, you won't see it(other than CMANS)



1 x perception


Take this up, it's cheap, DO IT!



.5 x physical training (going to take this up to at least 1x if not more)


Ok, but stick with just 1x, save yerself points for other things, were getting there...



8 ranks blunt weapons (assume this was done for redux)
18 ranks brawling (thought this helped with guild)



Get these the fuck out of yer plan. NOW!



10 ranks harness power
4 ranks elemental mana control
4 ranks spirit mana control
4 ranks spell research (401 -404)


Uhhh, way too much mana for only 4 spells. Unless yer gonna be picking boxes in the field, 3 or 4 is fine. Drop mana control, that's way to low to do shit for you. Spells are fine for your locksmith build.



6 ranks survival (do I need more of this?)


Peace out biotch!



5 ranks first aid
1 rank trading


FA for herb times? Get trading to atleast 10 ranks or drop it.

Yea, that's that. With the extra TPs up yer locksmithing to full 3x, or go for more hiding(2.5x or 3x). Or bring the ambush to a full 2x.

[jpatter123]

lol looks like I am going to be migrating for a few months.. I have a fix skill still but like I said I am hunting fine now and should be ok for the next 10 or so levels so I think I have plenty of time to do it. thanks again for the input!:thanx:

[Jolena]

I've never seen the point behind 3x in hiding. Use your CMAN points to train in shadowmastery and save yourself some points. I only 2x in hiding and I very very rarely get searched out.

At level 66 (about 30K from 67 actually and I train intermittently), these are my rogue's skills:

Armor Use..........................| 180 80 (will not do more, I'm in mbp)
Shield Use.........................| 168 68 (trained for level 67 at 1x)
Combat Maneuvers...................| 234 134
Edged Weapons......................| 236 136 (trained for level 67)
Ambush.............................| 236 136 (see above)
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 120 30 (might get 5 more but doubt it)
Physical Fitness...................| 200 100 (1.5x for redux and stamina)
Dodging............................| 236 136
Arcane Symbols.....................| 140 40 (cheap magical for rogue)
Magic Item Use.....................| 140 40 (see above)
Harness Power......................| 10 2 (just for COL purposes)
Stalking and Hiding................| 236 136
Perception.........................| 236 136
Climbing...........................| 120 30 (never need more)
Swimming...........................| 120 30 (see above)
First Aid..........................| 120 30 (want to skin and such, might switch to survival next, but goal is 1x total between the two skills)

Edited to add in cman information:


Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Combat Movement cmovement 2 (very rarely use this)
Shadow Mastery smastery 5 (always use)
Feint feint 4 (very rarely use and considering dropping)
Specialization I wspec1 3 (great AS boost and dormant)
Side by Side sidebyside 5 (works great with hiding/stalking/ambush if you work with a group)
Coup de Grace coupdegrace 3 (just for fun)
Surge of Strength surge 4 (always use, won't go over 4 ranks)

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 3

[The Ponzzz]

One word Bree, Sniping! Or Two words, Animal Perception? Heh! I guess if ya don't wanna just hide from anyone past 50, 2x is fine... :(

[StrayRogue]

I can hide easily from anyone my level with 2x hiding and can only be sniffed out after four or five searches. 3x is overkill.

[Stretch]

I hide with around 33% success from war griffins, with 202 ranks.

My $0.02 on everything else:

Do you need 2x ambush? No, but it certainly helps with criticals and getting a full push down. As you get higher in level, this will get more and more important since some things will have an OFFENSIVE DS of 400+ at the end game.

More than 1x PT: Yeah, you get more redux, and marginally more stamina. Given that you're going to be hiding/ambushing, points might be better put somewhere else. I don't personally think the incremental gain in redux is significant enough to warrant the extra 6/0 per level.

Shield: 0.3x means an extra 8/0 every three or so levels. You would be MUCH better served sticking the extra points into dodge if DS is your concern. Yes, that third rank of dodge costs an additional 0/4, but I get like 0.7 DS per rank of Dodge, versus maybe 0.4 or 0.5 per rank of shield.

More AS is good. You're going to need it; it makes hunting a whole lot faster when you don't have to cheapshot/sweep every damn thing to get it within range.

[Jolena]

One word Bree, Sniping! Or Two words, Animal Perception? Heh! I guess if ya don't wanna just hide from anyone past 50, 2x is fine... :(


Never had much issue with hiding from anyone well over 50, and animals do have a bit of an advantage but not a great deal. Most everything I hunt at this train is NOT an animal however. When I hunted on Pinefar, polar bears were difficult but Stunseed usually cast sunburst at them and that was that. Not everyone has this though, and I realize that. At level 66, I've been hunting in the Wyneb Tower for the last 10 trains and never had an issue hiding. I will be moving to the Rift when I hit 67 (later this week) and I'll let you know if I have any difficulties there. I still believe 3x is overkill, especially when you consider the advantage vs. tp's spent and if you are mastered in smastery, which I am.

[jpatter123]

thought I'd update you all where I am at now thanks to advice from many. I switched to archery after many painful days of considering it. I really hated sniping at first but now that I have a 5x bow and about 490+ ranks of fletching I am loving life. Sniping has proved to be very worthwhile for me for once it lets me as a giantman actually aim at small targets. This train did come at a cost because I had to lower picking and traps a tad but I can still get most of the boxes from where I am hunting temple/keen in illistim. Some of the traps do climb outta my range which i believe is right around 340 trap.

Montro (at level 65), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 175 75
Combat Maneuvers..............| 165 65
Ranged Weapons.................| 234 134
Ambush.............................| 234 134
Physical Fitness...................| 166 66
Dodging..............................| 231 131
Arcane Symbols....................| 50 10
Magic Item Use.....................| 78 17
Harness Power......................| 25 5
Disarming Traps.....................| 271 171
Picking Locks........................| 270 170
Stalking and Hiding................| 301 201
Perception...........................| 256 156
Climbing...............................| 105 25
Swimming.............................| 66 14

still got 5 armor ranks to catch up in before I can move back to catching up my picking to a full 3x's. I probably and going to lay off perception for a few ranks too. Not trully convinced more then 2x's is the way to go. I do occasionally miss my aimed target but not enough that I believe the cause is perception.
with my 5x bow/arrow(faewood/griffin) combo I am shooting arrows in the mid 390's. Plenty fer a kill shot.
For cmans I dropped surge down to 4 ranks.. 5 was way more then I needed , got 4 ranks of smastery and 4 ranks of wspec.
Thanks again everyone for the help!