Jobs.. Rants and Questions

[AestheticDeath]

Whats a decent paying job that requires no college or previous experience?
Something easy enough to pick up.. or with on the job training?

And, I am not asking about stuff like working at Taco Bell, or a burger joint etc.. I don't do restaurants.

Im currently (and have been for the past 6+ years) working in a small manufacturing company.

And the less important, but 'oh so feel good' ranting... cause you like to believe someone else might care.

I don't get along with the majority of the people.

Most of them are freaking stupid.(And this coming from me... so you can imagine what they are like..)

The place has no real climate control.

I wind up breathing alot of chemicals. WD-40, B-12, TAL-5, varasol etc.. As with the poor climate control, there is also poor air circulation.

The repetition of the job is starting to cause problems beyond the mental type.

I've noticed my wrists, hands, back and feet all getting worse.

My posture while standing has started to mimic the way I stand at work alot of the time.. And its not standing straight up. Like a lil twist in my lower back.
I can stand up straight and all.. and when I relax - my upper torso winds up rotating slightly, right side lower then the left a bit.

The noise is making me hard of hearing. Even though I use earplugs.

Since its a small private business, the insurance sucks, and costs too much.

There is no 401k or whatever.. just a small profit sharing plan.



I've only gotten $2.50 total in raises over 6+ years.

Learned some of the new guys are getting like $1, to $1.50 more for starting wages than I did when I started.. So I am really only $1 ahead of people that haven't even been there a year. (Of course this is hearsay, I have no proof..But I tend to beleive it.) But assuming they are trying to keep up with the wages around here.. I would have thought mine woulda raised at the same time ya know..

Learned another guy that started after me is getting paid more..
because he works in the office..
Sitting on his ass answering phones.
And went to college, to learn something that really doesn't apply to the job he has.
But he went to college so hes worth more.. Or something.

Of course theres also the fact that I went part time.. several times.
Once because I found another job, and tried doing both at once.
I wound up disliking the new job even more, and quit after about a month.
I would guess at least two other times I went part time... just cause I could.
Didn't wanna be there, could afford the bills on part time wages.. etc.
Friend kept calling me a slacker so I went back full time when I got the chance.

The machines we have to run, are so old that sometimes the mechanics have no fucking clue how to fix them. They are outdated, and there are so many different small functions that help the machine to do one thing.. that it could be any number of problems causing it to mess up. Not being able to do your job because of something like this is seriously frustrating. (especially since we get a bonus based on our rate.. which I always get unless the machine isnt working)

Its also on the other side of the town I live in.

I feel like I am stuck, in part because I am 90% certain I'll never get fired.
Job sequrity can be a bitch, when you dont like the job.
Though I am pushing the limits. ANY other would have fired me by now.
For reasons which, although I could control - I dont. Things get bad, so I skip a day. Or I just show up late alot.. leave a few minutes early. I have no real care if they do fire me, because deep down I wish they would.

Part of the reason they don't fire me is because, even though sometimes I am late enough and leave early enough to have 1-2 HOURS(yeah, and I still work there) less time than the other guys... I still produce as much, and alot of the time more product than my coworkers.

Part of it, as I see it. Is that they hire part-time guys alot. Work with schedules for school etc.. As most of the people hired are young college guys, or criminals who can't get anything else. So I am really just a part time worker, that works enough to get what lil benefits they offer full time employees.

Part of it, is because my father works there. Hes the reason I went to work there in the first place. Hes one of the three guys who has been there the longest. The company seriously couldn't survive for long without him. I think they might be partly afraid that if I get fired, he will leave too. And though I would like to say he wouldnt, since it would be stupid to do it for that reason. And he knows I would deserve being fired for my actions. He has.. expressly stated to me before he wants to quit anyways. Its just he has even less options than I do, as far as another job. Hes stuck.

And, part of it is because the owner is not a business man, so much as a charity. He is a Christian, and not trying to knock other Christians, so don't take this wrong. Especially since I don't know many others Christian or not that act the way he does.. But he just gives too much. There are employees he should have fired but didnt, I am a prime example. But others that are even worse. There was a drugie who worked for us... broke in the office and stole from the petty cash. They found out after the second or third time who it was... and did nothing. Let him keep it, and stay there working. Several other instances I wont get into. And tons of smaller things.

I absolutely hate the job - and I have to go back tomorrow. :help:

Oh, and I am selling my car to get rid of the monthly payments. Try to find a junker that will get me around. If anyones interested in a 95 red corvette, gimme a holler. $12,000 and its yers.

Should make it easier to quit and get another job. Not having to worry over as many bills. Even though there might be repairs on a junker.. I could have that same problem with this car. Or a brand new one. Though brand new would have a warranty.. I am tired of being in debt though. Corvette parts arent cheap either.

[Sean of the Thread]

Find another job bro ASAP.

[Tsa`ah]

That's pretty much the bitch of manufacturing.

There really isn't a standard other than filling the positions with the least amount of cost possible. When any company takes that approach there's turn over, barrel scraping, and an overall degradation mental faculties.

I feel your pain when it comes to conversation. Not so much anymore, but I've been there. Typical conversation is about some party, who fucked up who, how badly your getting fucked up after work .... the list goes on. If it should stray into something such as religion or politics ... well you wonder how the other person remembers to breath at times.

Pay in manufacturing is rarely commiserate of the job you do. Which is sad when you consider how critical the job is. Instead the wage becomes a "competitive" wage. Meaning they'll pay as much as the next manufacturing plant ... thus creating a cycle of rotating dead beats.

From the sound of it you company really has some fucked up priorities. Maintenance, when your production relies as heavily upon labor as it does machinery, should be a top priority. All of the machinery in my plant is now anywhere from 10-30 years old ... and most of it considered obsolete. We still out produce (per machine/laborer) every one of our stateside sister plants. Our machines don't go down until they're scheduled to because we're fanatic about maintenance.

On the issue of the druggie and theft, I'm willing to bet that's less christianly and more common sense. Depending on the size of the company, it's probably cheaper to let him keep the petty cash than it is to give him the option of rehab. It's also an indicator of how crappy the HR dept must be ... also scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

Degrees, when it comes to this industry, have really become a joke. What's left of my HR dept is supposed to "inform" me of any degree bearing applicants. Thankfully turn over has been reduced to maybe 2 people every few months, but I'm supposed to consider degree bearing individuals for positions first ... no matter what the degree is. And yes, they get more pay if they are hired.

I'm sorry, but I'm not giving a tech job ... or any manufacturing job (with more pay) to a schmuck holding a lit degree or anything else not relevant to the job ... yet that's what the industry has come down to.

The short time I worked for J/W was enough to make me go insane. The typical hierarchy would have a production groups with a "lead" position. Those groups are clustered into departments with a supervisor. The supervisors reporting to a manager.

J/W was just insane. A labor/manufacturing crew of 10 had a lead that reported to a supervisor (who was only responsible for the same crew of 10), who reported to a manager (who was again responsible only for the crew of 10).

So in essence a typical day on the production floor was a lead (making 2 bucks more than those below him/her) busting his/her ass while getting stopped by his/her supervisor every hour or so for numbers and a bitch session ... the supervisor would get stopped by the manager for the same thing and maybe a change of order or some crap ... and then supervisor and manager (who don't actually work) split up and go hang with their piers or in their office.

The supervisors almost always had at least 2 years "experience" with the company, but were generally people given a promotion to avoid injury claims .. but also had to attain an associates degree or certificate of some type.

Managers never had any actual experience with manufacturing, but had at least a bachelors in basket weaving. At least 9 out of 10 had a completely irrelevant degree.

The most astonishing thing was the discrepancies in pay scale. The people doing the work made 7-12 and hour depending on job and time put in. The people actually running the departments (leads) were paid 12-14 ... again depending on department and time on the job. Supervisors were paid 30-35 salary and really didn't do much of anything, while Managers were paid 45-65 and did squat.

Think about that for a minute. 7 managers and 7 supervisors per shit (that's just production) at the lowest pay scale for 2 shifts would be a 1,050,000 annually before benefits and employer contributions. Wouldn't you think it more beneficial to cut out the bullshit management structure and give the people doing the work a portion of the savings?

Higher pay means a higher standard, both the standard of work to expect and the standard in which you can hold employees to. It's just unfortunate that companies that pay a dirt wage expect a middle class effort. And on the flip side the person earning a middle class wage is really given the cake end of it all.

Personally, when the doors to my plant finally close ... I'm just completely done with working for anyone but myself. I've developed a massive distaste for the self perpetuating management machine.

[The Ponzzz]

Yea, time to get a new job. Not having any other real experience and no degree will run ya into trouble. Though even having a degree will still make finding a job difficult.

My suggestions is get in touch with a few temp agencies and build some experience in a field you may like.

[Stunseed]

<Whats a decent paying job that requires no college or previous experience?>

UPS, or any other type of (slave) labor. Since you have no qualities someone would pay for, expect to get paid in kind.

< I don't get along with the majority of the people.
Most of them are freaking stupid.(And this coming from me... so you can imagine what they are like..) >

This also removes you from the majority of retail/sales, which is one area you can excel without an education.

< Things get bad, so I skip a day. Or I just show up late alot.. leave a few minutes early. I have no real care if they do fire me, because deep down I wish they would. >

Does your job have vacation time? Perhaps you should take one if they do, you sound like you are in the midst of burnout.

Also, Tsa'ah is correct on competitive wages, as they are a factor where I work as well. I personally pay more for folks who have experience and capability, but some idiot another manager hires gets paid more than the loyal ones because wages continue to go up. Sorry you feel that way, though.

[HarmNone]

If I were you, I think I might look for an entry-level position with a company that offers education as a perk. Hopefully, you can find something in a field that interests you and the company will subsidize the furthering of your education. Sadly, unless you luck into something that doesn't require a degree (there are some tech fields that don't require a degree; although those who have one will be paid better), you're going to have to look at getting one to really get where you seem to want to go.

[Olanan]

Change your name to Joe, and become a mechanic.

That's why my dad did. :) (No, not kidding either)

[Miss X]

HarmNone's advice sounds good! Also, although you might think you don't have the right experience, there are a lot of transferable skills that you probably do have. Think about those for your CV, if you can word it correctly you'll sound like you have mad skillz.

Also, I don't know about the US but in the UK, trade is where the money is these days. Mechanics, plumbers, electricians are all earning good money and there are a lot of apprenticeship schemes that offer on the job training.

[sst]

Read your post and ask yourself why your not getting raises. You have a bad work ethic and the company would prolly be better off without you.

[Jorddyn]

I was going to post a long response, but I'll keep it short.

You're looking for a high-paying, no-skill, no-education required job with no contact with the public, and you have very little work ethic (at least that's how your post reads).

It could happen. Your time might be better spent, however, not bagging on those with an education and trying to get one of your own.

Jorddyn

[Jazuela]

I agree the reason you're getting piss-poor raises is probably because you haven't earned anything better. Producing the -same- as everyone else, while at the same time coming in late or leaving early, doesn't make you a quality employee. It makes you an average employee who comes in late and leaves early. For that, you get an average-or-less raise unless the union demands otherwise.

If you want to continue that ethos, try a union job. That way you can sit on your ass, come in late, leave early, take a dozen breaks, and get decent raises. You'll be stuck working with a lot of people who have the same sense of entitlement you have, but at least you won't have to deal with them as often (since the union will back up your late-showing, early-leaving self).

If you want to try and adjust your outlook on work, you could try a *skilled* trade job, such as printer, plumber, electrician, etc. Skilled trades demand higher salaries once you complete an apprenticeship. The downside is your pay as an apprentice will still not cover the payments on your Vette.

[Tsa`ah]

Read your post and ask yourself why your not getting raises. You have a bad work ethic and the company would prolly be better off without you.

I would challenge anyone to keep a good work ethic while working a labor level manufacturing job. Most manufacturing plants are loaded with slack jaws all the way to the top of the plant.

Let's not even get into the fact that most manufacturing jobs may hint at pay raises based on whatever, but what you actually get is a few cents every year to "offset" the cost of living increase.

Then again, I wouldn't expect a guy who went from money to Walmart to the army to know anything about providing for himself.

[Jorddyn]

I would challenge anyone to keep a good work ethic while working a labor level manufacturing job.

The CEO of our company started out cutting up turkeys on the line at a different company. Ditto the Transportation, Purchasing, and Shipping managers. Why'd they move up? They actually worked.


Most manufacturing plants are loaded with slack jaws all the way to the top of the plant.

Which makes it easier for non-slack jaws to move up the ranks.


Let's not even get into the fact that most manufacturing jobs may hint at pay raises based on whatever, but what you actually get is a few cents every year to "offset" the cost of living increase.

What else should you get when you're performing the exact same duties at the exact same pace? Cost of living should be expected. Everything else should be earned.

Jorddyn

[Tromp]

Call center at a credit card, insurance, data processing company. It is pretty brainless but some positions you can get bumps on sales etc plus the benefits are usual good along with the work environment. You can sit your butt in an ergonomic chair etc... Oh and they usually have tuition reimbursement. Where do you live?

If I were you, sell your car and whatever else you can do and learn FOREX trading. Start working for yourself. I do this about 5 hours a month for about $1,100 extra a month. You can buy software that does all the research for you and it is spot on (90% success on my trades).

Oh and get a damn lauyer so you can threaten to take them to court thus getting some sort of payment for the horrible work environment. The attorney will do it pro-bono. You get $ trust me, plus you'll help out your fellow co-workers even if they are a$$hats.

[Sean]

I doubt hes taking a company that his dad still works for to court.. would make for an awkward thanksgiving...

[Caede]

UPS / FedEx are both good suggestions. Surprisingly, I know a few people who have started driving Coca-Cola delivery trucks and worked their way up to manager-positions in short time and they still have a lot of upward growth potential.

No comments on your work ethic or what-not, but I'll share my condensed story: I've been working since I got out of high school, and have no degree -- for 10 years I've been bouncing around from low-end PC repair jobs up to being the Sr. VoIP engineer for my current company, which I've been with in various positions for 7 years. If you work your ass off, you can do it.

[Usurper83]

Since it was already stated, I'll keep it short:

If you don't want to go the manual labor way, go find a call center/data processing joint, and answer the phones and enter crap into a computer. You don't really need to think, and you pick it up in a few days. Now, since most of those places are quazi-white collar, you actually need to come in and dress appropriately.

Another method would be to get into dispatch for a shipping company. A buddy of mine did that a few years back, got laid off (that company started having financial troubles because their drivers were illegals and they were getting busted), started going back to school, but now has a job that pays 40k a year and they were hiring based off of ability to perform, not education. Makes me wish I ditched my current job (temp job of about 22k a year, hooray being poor) and took that, since I forwarded that to him, but I didn't have any interest in the hour commute for something that wasn't in my field.

I hate looking for jobs.

[Stanley Burrell]

Change your name to Joe, and become a mechanic.

That's why my dad did. :) (No, not kidding either)

LoLz

Tim, Mike and Joe, mos' def :yes:

[Apathy]

I would suggest getting into some simple sales position...but your attitude would need serious work to be successful.

College degrees can help you get your foot in the door and may open up management advancement in sales, but your salary is ultimately determined by how hard you want to work.

The nice thing about sales is you can find an entry-level position in a field related to one of your interests and then go from there. No need to sell books if you hate books, or computers if you hate computers.

And the best part is you'll know in about 2 months whether or not you can cut it.

[AestheticDeath]

Another long post.. sorry.



I feel your pain when it comes to conversation. Not so much anymore, but I've been there. Typical conversation is about some party, who fucked up who, how badly your getting fucked up after work .... the list goes on. If it should stray into something such as religion or politics ... well you wonder how the other person remembers to breath at times.

Pay in manufacturing is rarely commiserate of the job you do. Which is sad when you consider how critical the job is. Instead the wage becomes a "competitive" wage. Meaning they'll pay as much as the next manufacturing plant ... thus creating a cycle of rotating dead beats.


Its not just the conversation, its overall stupidity. Lack of common sense or logic.

Ive seen guys do really stupid things. Like on a cold day, when we have the gas heaters going.. and some guy gets hot, he will go over and turn on the poor excuse for a cooling system that we have... and have the two compete against each other. Rather than turning off the heat.

There is a seperate fan at each machine, and there are two fans on the walls. And the cooler in the back.. On a semi decent day, around 70 degrees. Someone will get hot, normally one of the 'hefty' guys. And instead of turning on their fan, they go and turn on a wall fan, or the cooler. Or both. So I start getting cold, and turn it off. The fucker goes back and turns it on again.. Its bullshit.

None of them seem to have the faintest clue on how to work the air flow. If its 90+ degrees outside and we have all the coolers/fans on. They wind up opening a door in front of the cooler - all the way- so that the cold air just winds up flowing right outside, rather than helping us in any way. Or I will wind up feeling hot air coming inside, rather then excess air escaping outside. So You dont want hot air coming in right? I close the door. Open one on the other side of the shop. They open it again. So we just have hot air coming in all the time. Even the foreman does this.

And we clean our machines using air pressure.. spray it with wd-40, then blow it off. Theres always trash/leftovers from the process on the ground. So we use the air hose to blow that to one spot, out from underneath the machine to sweep it up. I always spray from the back towards the front where I normally stand to run the machine. Its just the logical place to put it.. But this asshole next to me, always blows his trash to the side and onto or under my machine, so I wind up cleaning up his mess. There is a walkway between the machines and the storage wall, so you can actually move around the machines and get to the others. This same guy always puts his stuff in that walkway, so you have to move it or walk around it to get where your going. There have been several guys that did this. I have a serious problem with people making more work for me, whether its cleaning up their mess, or having to move around the shit they put in the way for no reason. There is always a better place to put it.

Or.. the back door. I was running at a machine basically right in line with it. When they open it in the morning(cause they like looking outside... its so pretty) the sun shines in right in my eyes. It even reflects off of the concrete. Gives me white spots sometimes, and also I wind up getting distracted by every god damn car that goes by. They just dont seem to care to opening the door affects my vision, or the temperature.


<Whats a decent paying job that requires no college or previous experience?>

UPS, or any other type of (slave) labor. Since you have no qualities someone would pay for, expect to get paid in kind.

< I don't get along with the majority of the people.
Most of them are freaking stupid.(And this coming from me... so you can imagine what they are like..) >

This also removes you from the majority of retail/sales, which is one area you can excel without an education.

< Things get bad, so I skip a day. Or I just show up late alot.. leave a few minutes early. I have no real care if they do fire me, because deep down I wish they would. >

Does your job have vacation time? Perhaps you should take one if they do, you sound like you are in the midst of burnout.

Also, Tsa'ah is correct on competitive wages, as they are a factor where I work as well. I personally pay more for folks who have experience and capability, but some idiot another manager hires gets paid more than the loyal ones because wages continue to go up. Sorry you feel that way, though.


UPS and FEDex are two of the places I have been considering. Also Tige boats is apparantly hiring again. At this point though I would prefer something with more climate control than a big open building with fans all over the place. If I can find it.

As far as the people comment, its aimed more at my current coworkers, and not all of them.
I can get along with other people, especially if I don't have to be around them every day. Customers should not be a problem.

There is vacation time of a sort. Though with my swapping between part time and full time I have none at the moment. At best I think you get a week, perhaps two weeks, for a full years work at full time. Part time gets no vacation.


Also, although you might think you don't have the right experience, there are a lot of transferable skills that you probably do have. Think about those for your CV, if you can word it correctly you'll sound like you have mad skillz.

Id probably be doing a resume, not a CV. Also.. I hate to put something on there, that is untrue. Sounding like I have skills, when in reality I don't have what it takes to complete a job using whatever skill its suppose to be, could get me in a jam.


Read your post and ask yourself why your not getting raises. You have a bad work ethic and the company would prolly be better off without you.

I dont have to read my post. But I agree with you, if only for other reasons. I tend to beleive my work ethic is very good. I seem to have given the wrong impression at least in part. When I say I do as much, or more work even though I come in late or leave early. I mean to say I do everyting they do.. in less time. Take today for example. Its suppose to be an 8-5 job.

I arrived around 8:20.
I worked up until a lil after 11:30 ( I leave early for lunch to beat the crowds at restaurants)
went to lunch - cashed my check
clocked back in around 12:30
clocked out @ 4:58, while another guy waited at the clock.. for it to hit 5 before he clocked out.
At the end of the day I had 7.75 hours. (This is a good day, admittedly sometimes I only get in 6 and a half hours from a 8 hour day)

In that time, I made 24,000 units of our product.
(Over 3000 an hour - our bonus starts at 2000 an hour, minimum is 1500 or your fired if its prolonged.)
Two other employees, who both got there on time, 20 or more minutes earlier than I.
Made 23,000 units, and 22,000 units. And those two are my closest competitors, if you will.
Our foremen does monthly and yearly pie charts(cause he has little else to do beyond twiddle his thumbs, between ordering product every 3-4 months.)
On those charts, I always come in first or second for the total production, and the highest rate.
Before I lost my 'good' machine and had to re-work a clunker, I always was #1.
Now its a trade off depending on whether the machines work properly or not.
There is a bonus every month of a $25 gift card to a restaurant for anyone averaging 2000 a month or more.
Until the last 4 months or so, I was the ONLY employee to get this reward. And I got it month after month after month. Now most of the guys tend to get it I think. By averaging just at or above 2000, while I rarely go below a monthly average of 2400.
About two months ago, I ran a very non-consitant 3000 average. Meaning some of the first days in the month my machine was FUBARed, and I got daily averages of under 1000 an hour. Over the rest of the month, after fixing the machine - I worked my ass off, and got daily averages of over 3500! This was unheard of until then. I am one of the few that could average over 3000 an hour.
In the end I averaged 3008 for the month. Never happened before, and most likely will NEVER happen again. Did I receive any recognition? Nope. So fuck them. I've had days where I made 34,000 units, which beats out any of the hundreds of previous employees records. I also did it in less time then any of the closest records.

Now getting beyond the tardiness, which I might talk about later..
My work ethics are very sound. I work harder than anyone else in that plant. Once I am there, I work. I goto the bathroom, possibly twice, normally only once. Only in dire straights have I gone more than twice in one day while at work(the runs or something? :P)
Most of my co-workers go at least every two hours, usually more. Five trips or more per day is common among them all. The guy mentioned earlier about being stupid, putting his stuff in the aisle, and blowin his trash on my machine.. Tends to go every hour or so. For upwards of 10-15 minutes at a time sometimes. 3-4 minutes is a quickie for him. This guy, and another guy, both talk on their cell-phones quite a bit even though they are not suppose to even have them in the production room.

My conversation time is limited to break times, or lunch.
EVERY other guy in that place talks to someone.
Some of the guys in the production room, will go BS with the guys in the machine shop.. Sometimes for half an hour. This is especially prevelant when they are in the back by themselves 'doing the shipping'. As we dont have a real shipper position, we just have some random guy do it now and then.
The guys who work in the machine shop, piss away the first 30-45 minutes of every day catching up, or telling old stories. Then throughout the day, they continue talking here and there. Walking by someone, they will stop and shoot the breeze. God forbid if the owner comes in... He stands there and talks too! If the machine shop guys worked all 8 hours they are suppose to, and worked on what they should work on, we wouldnt have problems with our machines.

I go through my day up there doing my work, watching others talk with friends, or on the phone. repeatedly going to the bathroom, or going to refill their free coffee(I dont drink coffee, and dont get offered anything else in place of it.. tea? cool aid? Fuck no - to hell with them)

The only bad thing you can say about me in that workplace, and its only been at this workplace, is that I am no there on time, and dont get the full 40 hours I am suppose to. Why? Because I dont give a <insert extra long invective string here> about that company or the job anymore. I am tired of working my ass off, and watching others piddle, and not get in trouble. I am tired of being one of the main supporters of that company and getting paid next to nothing, while the owner takes home 70k or more a year.. for taking his kid to baseball practice, or going hunting... or lounging around his house. Sure, as the owner(he inherited the business after working there for a while) he can do whatever the fuck he wants. And still take home a paycheck. I just dont see it as fair. If I ever own a business I am damn well gonna work for my check, and make sure the place runs in tip top shape. Not leave it up to some gimped foreman with no more than a HS diploma, who is also grossly overpaid for what he does. We could fire the foreman right now, bring in some freshman college student and pay him 1/2 of what the guy gets right now, and be much better off. For that matter, we could put the foremans work onto the two people in the office who process orders and answer phones. They have tons of freetime, unless its an unusual day. They both bring their personal mail to the office.. pay their bills there, check personal emails at work. When they were in school, they did their homework there at work. They dont clock out for lunch, using the excuse someone has to be there to answer the phones.. but theres two of them.. take lunch seperatly? No..of course not.

As an aside, the foreman has tried to push off some of his responsibilities onto me, as he doesn't like to do the stuff. Hes also talked about training me to do his job.. For what reason I dunno. Since hes never going to quit or get fired, even though he doesnt really fit. Hes not so old that hes gonna drop dead anytime soon. And when one foreman has too much free time already, you dont really have room for two acting foremans, so basically I would learn it for nothing, or wind up doing his job for him, so he scratchs his ass and gets paid for doing nothing.


You're looking for a high-paying, no-skill, no-education required job with no contact with the public, and you have very little work ethic (at least that's how your post reads).

It could happen. Your time might be better spent, however, not bagging on those with an education and trying to get one of your own.

Jorddyn

In essence that would be exactly what I would want. But I don't have to have high paying.. just decent. I get $8.50-10 an hour. I dont want to go down on payscale, which shouldnt be too hard. Hell even McDonalds pays like $6.50-$7.50 for an starting position now, extra dollar for if you open or close..

As far as skills/education, it doesnt need to be a brainless job, just something that doesnt require a bachelors degree. Or previous work experience. How do you get a job that requires previous experience, if no one will hire for that type of job unless you have prior experience??

And again on the not liking others thing.. Thats mainly being closeted with the idiots I work with. I can and do get along with other people. Im just like every one else, in that I can form a dislike for someone. In this case it happens to be the majority of the people I currently work with. :)

And I am not 'baggin' on the guy with a college degree in computer science. I am upset that he gets paid more for that degree, even though it doesnt pertain to the job he does answering phones.


I agree the reason you're getting piss-poor raises is probably because you haven't earned anything better. Producing the -same- as everyone else, while at the same time coming in late or leaving early, doesn't make you a quality employee. It makes you an average employee who comes in late and leaves early. For that, you get an average-or-less raise unless the union demands otherwise.

Like I said earlier. I am one of the best workers in the history of that company. The tediousness of it, the frustration of machines that dont always work (breaking almost every day), watching others piss time away without doing the work they should. etc etc.. Is the main reason I tend to show up late, or not stay till the clock hits 5. Could I work all 8 hours anyway and get over my problems? Sure. I could also go crazy and kill myself trying. So I dont jump up and rush to a job thats slowly killing me ... I could care less. I recognize the fact that what I am doing is wrong. I don't like the fact that I do it. I even tell myself I will stop, and be more punctual getting there promptly. But I tend not to go through with it. I couldn't really care any less about that job or the people there anymore.
I could go on talking about the fact that they haven't fired me yet, but I covered that several times in the original post. One of the biggest reasons I am not fired is because I get my job done, and I do it well. While I am there... heh, one of my coworkers once told me I am the hardest working lazy person hes ever met.

Read the earlier thing about my rates. I produce as much or more, in less time overall. Which means in the end, they make more profit off my stupid skinney white ass, than they do from those other employees who work 8 hours or more a day.


Call center at a credit card, insurance, data processing company. It is pretty brainless .... Where do you live?

If I were you, sell your car and whatever else you can do and learn FOREX trading. Start working for yourself. I do this about 5 hours a month for about $1,100 extra a month. You can buy software that does all the research for you and it is spot on (90% success on my trades).

I live in Abilene, Texas. Tell me more about the FOREX trading thing?



Oh and get a damn lauyer so you can threaten to take them to court thus getting some sort of payment for the horrible work environment. The attorney will do it pro-bono. You get $ trust me, plus you'll help out your fellow co-workers even if they are a$$hats.


I doubt hes taking a company that his dad still works for to court.. would make for an awkward thanksgiving...
What Sean said.. My dads still there. Plus I know everyone there. Some more than others. I know the boss. I know his son and daughter. All that mumbo jumbo. Its really not worth it to try something like that. I just need to get out from under that place. Its just scary, going from a job youve been at so long, and know you could stay at just about as long as you want, without fearof losing it. And then just up and quitting, going to god knows what kinda of job, which would have absolutely no sequrity whatsoever. I cant stand to think of getting into debt, having bills to pay. And then losing my job. So its hard to quit, which is why I havent yet. I want to find something dependable. Something I wont hate as much as I hate this one. And I dont wanna just up and get any job, then hop from job to job. I need the long work history at one place Ive had here, to help me get a good job somewhere else.

[Tromp]

>> I live in Abilene, Texas. Tell me more about the FOREX trading thing?

Look it up on the net just type FOREX which stands for Foreign Currency Exchange. If you like what you see, then you register to take a class or classes which can be anywhere between $2k-$5k plus buy the software and then deposit $ to trade with in your account. If you can drum up $10k you'd have a good start. Sit in you boxers and work a couple of hours a day.

After doing your research let me know what you think and I'll forward the name of the trading software I use. As I said, it tells you when to buy and sell. 90% accuracy with my trades so far.

[Jazuela]

Production rates doesn't determine a good/bad employee. It only determines high/low production rates. Justifying your coming in late and leaving early and commenting -here- about how stupid everyone -else- is and that thing about the coffee and your entitlement to an alternative doesn't make you a good employee. It makes you a whiner.

Have you tried using some of that time you aren't working (between 8 and 8:20) talking to the boss? Have you asked to meet with him some morning to discuss your future with the company? Have you made any active attempt to encourage more efficient production/less waste of manhours among your co-workers? Have you done everything you can possibly do as an employee to demonstrate your superiority? Instead of rolling your eyes and being frustrated at the morons about the heating/cooling and doors and fans and all that, have you gone to the building maintenence guy to explain that there's a problem, and asked if he might intervene? Have you suggested to your boss that he implement actual rules and written consequences about this kind of thing, to reduce the heating and cooling bills, thus driving up profits as a result of less waste?

Have you been provided OSHA documentation about hazmat and safety violations regarding the waste your co-workers are blowing over by your machine? If not, have you asked your boss for a copy of them (yes, they do exist)? Does your company have a safety officer? If not, they should. Perhaps you could volunteer to be that safety officer. It'll get you out of the building once every 3 months for OSHA safety meetings, plus give you the authority to instruct your co-workers how to handle the waste *and* the heating/cooling issues (since inefficient heat/cooling is a safety issue as well as a comfort issue).

There are tons of ways you, as a lowly machine worker, can make your day feel more productive above and beyond the "x" number of widgets you churn out. And each of those things can make you a more valueable employee there - and in other places in the future. And none of these things require a college degree.

OR -

Are you happier just complaining and hoping to find another mindless job at better pay where you can get a nice watch when you retire 30 years later?

[Sean of the Thread]

Burger King has a huge sign warning the employees not to fall face first into their fryer I'm told.

[Usurper83]

Id probably be doing a resume, not a CV. Also.. I hate to put something on there, that is untrue. Sounding like I have skills, when in reality I don't have what it takes to complete a job using whatever skill its suppose to be, could get me in a jam.


It isn't so much about lying on your resume or CV, because you don't want to end up getting nailed for lying on it. The biggest thing with "resume fraud" is lying about education and degrees that you don't have. People get nailed for this all the time.

What was being talked about, however, was taking what skills you do have and representing them in a sellable way. Right now I'm working data entry on a 9 or so person team. On my resume, I have it as "Entering source data into Excel-based database" (the system is loosely based on Excel, but I have a strong enough working knowledge of Excel to pull this off), and "Working as part of a 9 member team to enter data through two processes to ensure accurate and expedient data transfers" and shit like that. Those aren't necessarily verbatim, because I didn't want to look up my resume. But, truth be told, I don't really do shit with the other people on the "team." They just sit in the same area as me, and do the same kind of work. We don't collaborate largely as a team at all, and we just stick to what we do. But, I'm selling it in a way that reads that I'm a good teamworker and that I can fit in and work with a group, as well as myself.

[AestheticDeath]

Production rates doesn't determine a good/bad employee. It only determines high/low production rates. Justifying your coming in late and leaving early and commenting -here- about how stupid everyone -else- is and that thing about the coffee and your entitlement to an alternative doesn't make you a good employee. It makes you a whiner.
When the whole job IS production, and based on rates. It makes me the best employee there. In my mind. If you had a business based on production, would you rather employ someone who comes in on time, and wastes a good portion of their time jacking off, and making a subpar rate - and sometimes a subpar product, or would you rather have someone who comes in late, sets a higher standard for the rates of production, and doesnt waste time on the clock? Seriously the time issue to me, is such a small and insignificant thing. What if each employee were paid salary? And your work for the day was based on making X units per day? Theyd have those other guys coming and working most of the day again, while I would probably work 3/4s of the time, and get my job done faster, and be free for the rest of the day. Our work isnt based on dealing with other people. I dont have to get there at a certain time to open the doors, or turn everything on.

Whiner? Of course. Why else would I make such a stupid thread. Beyond the small part about trying to get help finding an alternative job.


Have you tried using some of that time you aren't working (between 8 and 8:20) talking to the boss? Have you asked to meet with him some morning to discuss your future with the company? Have you made any active attempt to encourage more efficient production/less waste of manhours among your co-workers? Have you done everything you can possibly do as an employee to demonstrate your superiority? Instead of rolling your eyes and being frustrated at the morons about the heating/cooling and doors and fans and all that, have you gone to the building maintenence guy to explain that there's a problem, and asked if he might intervene? Have you suggested to your boss that he implement actual rules and written consequences about this kind of thing, to reduce the heating and cooling bills, thus driving up profits as a result of less waste?
HAHA, if only you knew. I have been here 6 years, in case you missed that part. I have tried every job in this hell hole, except being the 'owner'. The owner by the way, if you read the earlier potion, is never there. I have to talk to the foreman about any complaints I have. And I have talked his ear off. He doesn't care much for me anymore. Maintenance guy? heh, there isnt one. My fathers the closest thing to that, and he is limited by what the boss says. Which means if it costs $ you cant do it. The only way to improve the heating/cooling thing is to buy a real system, and have it installed. Good luck with that. About the rules... When I talked to the foreman about the stupidity of opening doors at the wrong times, turning on heaters and coolers at the same time and all that. He got real pissed off, and said we dont need more rules! More rules would have meant him having to waste free time, and actually writing something up. Then having a sudo-meeting saying, heres the new rules. Which we wont bother trying to enforce anymore than the rest of the rules we have.


Have you been provided OSHA documentation about hazmat and safety violations regarding the waste your co-workers are blowing over by your machine? If not, have you asked your boss for a copy of them (yes, they do exist)? Does your company have a safety officer? If not, they should. Perhaps you could volunteer to be that safety officer. It'll get you out of the building once every 3 months for OSHA safety meetings, plus give you the authority to instruct your co-workers how to handle the waste *and* the heating/cooling issues (since inefficient heat/cooling is a safety issue as well as a comfort issue).
Safety officer? Nope. Foreman might have this responsibility, but again hes lazy. This is one of those things where he tried to get me to do it. But in the end it would be a waste of time. They wouldnt send me to OSHA meetings. They wouldnt try and do things properly like that. It costs money.

One time, the boss got it in his head we could make money by contracting work from other places. In order to do this, we had to have more sophisticated machinery than the lathes and milling machines we had.

After much deliberation and investigating(most of the work done by a smart guy who no longer works here - he left for a preaching job) we finally bought a smallish CNC machine.

The boss came to me, and asked if I wanted the job of running the CNC. I said sure. So we got the machine, and we got free training for 2 people. What happened? The boss wound up paying extra to have 3 people beyond the two who would be running the CNC, get this training.

It was a waste of money.

Not only for the uselessness of those extra guys. But because it was basically just a small instruction manual, filled with examples of "draw this, write that - code whatever - input speeds" and whala you have a program to make a part. The instructor basically just watched us go though the book. For two days. Thats the only training I got in how to operate a CNC machine. He said get to work. After coming to a few hang ups where I didnt know what to do, sometimes we could use guesswork to figure it out. A few times we could call the rep who 'taught us' and get him to help. But the longer I was there, the more problems I faced. They just told me to keep calling the rep. It was bullshit. They should have sent me to school to actually learn the process, not just play at it with guesswork. I quit that job. Ive worked in the machine shop as well, on the lathes and mills. Ive done the shipping - even back when it was a near stand alone job, which only took up half a day, and wasted my production time, hurting my rate. Ive even worked in the office some, though its not a job I would have wanted and didnt ask for.


There are tons of ways you, as a lowly machine worker, can make your day feel more productive above and beyond the "x" number of widgets you churn out. And each of those things can make you a more valueable employee there - and in other places in the future. And none of these things require a college degree.

I have tried everything in my power up to this point. Nothing is changing in this company anytime soon. Ive recognized the fact long ago that its a waste of time. And I dont wish to be there. It all comes down to what is practical in the owners mind, and spending more money isnt practical. Its a small privately owned business. They dont employ all the methods a large company would have.


Are you happier just complaining and hoping to find another mindless job at better pay where you can get a nice watch when you retire 30 years later?

Again with the mindless job.. I never asked for a mindless job. Just something that doesnt require a degree or college to start off with. If you think any job not requiring that is mindless.. well I think you will be dissapointed.

In the end this thread is really to help me find a new job. Some people have pointed me in a few directions, and I appreciate that.

If anyone wants to pick through my rantings, and tell me what my problems are thats fine. But ultimatly I think I know what my problems are, and how to fix them. By leaving and finding a more respectable job, with people who know what they are doing.

[Jenisi]

If you think you could grin and bear being around people I'd suggest getting your real estate license. Great money in it, take a month long class and pass your state's exam. Getting 5-6% on each house you sell adds up quick!

[Usurper83]

If you think you could grin and bear being around people I'd suggest getting your real estate license. Great money in it, take a month long class and pass your state's exam. Getting 5-6% on each house you sell adds up quick!


The only problem with this is a cooling real estate market. I guess since he's in Texas, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but anywhere in the NE (especially Jersey), you're essentially asking to be unemployed. Everyone's selling up here, no one is buying.

[Tromp]

The only problem with this is a cooling real estate market. I guess since he's in Texas, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but anywhere in the NE (especially Jersey), you're essentially asking to be unemployed. Everyone's selling up here, no one is buying.


Best time to sell to an investor for a rental property. Gimme gimme!!!! Any type of market is a good market for a real estate professional worth his salt.
Always look on the bright side of life...:whistle:

[Usurper83]

Best time to sell to an investor for a rental property. Gimme gimme!!!! Any type of market is a good market for a real estate professional worth his salt.
Always look on the bright side of life...:whistle:


Right, but it is hard to get into the field, is what I was saying. If you know the ropes and already have the properties and contacts, you're good to go. Just starting out, you'll be pushing papers for one of the senior guys hoping to grab 1% of his commission, while waiting tables at nights, is all I'm saying.

Besides, one would have better luck down in Texas, because everyone is leaving Jersey. If I had any interest in doing that, I would go become an agent in Arizona or Delaware.

[Tsa`ah]

The CEO of our company started out cutting up turkeys on the line at a different company. Ditto the Transportation, Purchasing, and Shipping managers. Why'd they move up? They actually worked.

That's an unqualified statement. There's simply too much missing.

How long should a person prove themselves before they get recognized? What's the qualifier? Should a person new through the door toil at the lower levels doing all that is expected and more for a year? Two? Three? Seven? before someone acknowledges that they've earned a better position and pay?

I'm sorry, but I've had to give performance reviews for people working for an employer for a much longer duration than myself and wondered why the hell they weren't promoted or given a raise. I've also looked at reviews of people that had received the raises and promotions and was completely baffled as to how they were rewarded when the better employees were not.

Sometimes it's assertiveness, ass kissing, knowing someone or whatever. Other times it's personal bias and grievance interfering with decisions that would be best for your employer and the employee.


Which makes it easier for non-slack jaws to move up the ranks.

Not necessarily so. I've found the common slack jaw that fell in genetic shit but ended up in a position that makes them smell a bit rosy is easily intimidated by the better employee. What better way to ensure job security than to keep your better below you?


What else should you get when you're performing the exact same duties at the exact same pace? Cost of living should be expected. Everything else should be earned.

Cost of living should be expected, rarely is it given. Scaled raises tend to be too complex for the folks that need to decide on the raise. All too often a percent is given company wide. Great if you make 40 plus, bad if you make 9 an hour. After all a 2% raise is going to make 1 more car payment in a year for the guy making a wage, it's going to make a pair of mortgage payments for the guys making base salary, it's investment cash for the guys in upper management.

While I agree that you have to earn your way, I don't agree that the field is remotely level for everyone trying to do so. Merit and capability should be the driving forces behind decisions of advancement. I've found that they rarely are even considered in today's work place, specifically the lower levels of industry.

On the subject of attendance ... well it's widely a double standard between those who manage and those who are managed ... based on pay type.

I see it this way.

I have to see that people are paid for the time they work. I also have to see that as much is produced for the time I'm paying for. Thus the lower my labor cost (paid hourly wage) and he higher my rate of production is, the better my bottom line is.

This is where the double standard kicks in.

Salaried person A doesn't punch a time clock. He/she can come in a few minutes late without notice, leave a few minutes early without notice, and take a few extra minutes for lunch without notice. Salaried person A does his/her job and really isn't hassled about shaving minutes and extended lunches. The work gets done and that's all that matters.

Hourly person B has to punch the clock. His/her pay is directly influenced by what the time clock reads out. Hourly person B gets in trouble if he/she is a few minutes late and is expected to keep working even after he/she has done all that the job required for the allotment of time. Hell, the work expected of hourly person B can change in an instant and hourly person B can get his/her time for breaks and lunch cut with no reflection on his/her pay.

This isn't flipping burgers, asking if you want fries with that, nor waiting tables. This isn't the service industry ... this is a different standard with too many glaring double standards.

Again I say, work a lower level production job for 6 years without raise, promotion, or recognition ... doing your absolute best, and I doubt you will be able to maintain that initial work ethic past the 3rd year.

However, as to the original post ... you have to learn when to get the fuck out of dodge. The moment it starts to become unbarable is the moment to look elsewhere.

As to what to look for, HN had the best advice. Find a job that will foot the bill for industry related education. Start off with a certificate, get into a trade school ... whatever, but get something specific to the industry that you wouldn't mind doing. It will only get better from there.

[Gan]

Also check for entry level positions in healthcare. Abilene Regional Hospital is a decent sized facility and the healthcare industry is pretty stable for income potential.

Here's something that you might be interested in. And once you get your foot in the door with a hospital, it opens up to many opportunities as you get to know more people in different departments. And many hospitals will also provide extra training as well as education reimbursement.

The hard part of your situation, from what you've described is your location. Being in a remote area in northwest texas will limit job availability and wage competitiveness.

You might consider relocation a little east to Fort Worth/Dallas area or seek something up towards Lubbock (college town with 2 huge hospitals and other various industries).

Good luck to you, and keep your options open.

________________________________________



Engineering Tech II -
Engineering Tech II - Facilities Management
Must have at least 1 year of basic experience in building trades. High School Graduate or GED.

Additional Information
Position Type : Full Time
Shift : Day

Contact Information
Dorothy Drones - Recruiter
Abilene Regional Medical Center
6250 Hwy 83/84
Abilene, TX 79606
Email:dorothy_drones@armc.net (dorothy_drones@armc.net)
Phone: 325-691-2496
Fax: 325-691-2477

[AestheticDeath]

Thanks

[Jorddyn]

Post here

1. Salaried people are paid for doing a job, hourly people are paid for the time they put in. If getting a job done is worth $40k a year, and I manage to do it in 30 hours a week, what good does it do for me to fill a seat 10 hours a week? Keep in mind that these jobs more often require more than 40 hours a week, and don't pay extra for it.

2. The onus is on the employee to figure out if the company they are working for rewards hard work, or if they reward ass-kissing, or if they reward seniority, or if they reward who-you-know. It is then up to said employee to make the choice to stay or go.

3. Promotions are very rarely handed out like candy. If you feel you deserve one, ask for one. In the company I work for, all plant jobs are posted, from neck-slit (fun!) to team lead all the way to plant manager. If you don't apply, you don't get.

4. I do believe it is illegal to force an hourly employee to work during their lunches. Not so sure about breaks, but I know WalMart recently faced a lawsuit addressing just that.

Yes, some people are overlooked. Yes, some people are overpaid. Yes, some people play favorites. It is your job, and your duty to yourself, to fall into overpaid and not overlooked :)

This is on a huge tangent, so to the original post I will say that if you hate your job, get out.

Jorddyn