Suicide

[Sean of the Thread]

Let's make a nice thread that everyone will fight, flame and argue about.

Have you thought about?. would you think about it? Would you do it? What do you think of others who have done it or attempted to do it?

I think everyone has a point where they would think about it.. if you have not considered it yet then simply you have not been to "that" point yet....... and you're lying if you think you could never reach that point.

[Bobmuhthol]

Anyone that commits suicide is no better than Hitler.

[Jorddyn]

Let's make a nice thread that everyone will fight, flame and argue about.

Have you thought about?. would you think about it? Would you do it? What do you think of others who have done it or attempted to do it?

I think everyone has a point where they would think about it.. if you have not considered it yet then simply you have not been to "that" point yet....... and you're lying if you think you could never reach that point.

I was 14 when I tried it. It was the single stupidest and most selfish act of my life. I understand the motivation, and I understand that everyone has a breaking point - short of an incredibly painful terminal illness, it doesn't make the act any less repugnant.

Jorddyn

[Back]

There are a couple of questions. The first being have you even considered that option. The second is, if you have, and you have considered the self-pity option, would you ever actually go through with it?

Seeing as people have done it, it comes up as a question at some point in average everyday people’s lives... simple morality. To get to the second option, its much more profound, and I would guess that fewer people reach that point, statistically speaking.

For myself? I don’t fear death itself. In fact I consider it the next adventure. But I love life and nature too much to even consider stopping it short, no matter how bad things in my life have been.

[Andreal]

Never thought about suicide. I'm sure I would if the situation would be worse for me if I didn't.. (Think House of 1,000 Corpses worse, that is) Other than that though, I really couldn't see myself doing it. I'd always think there is always a chance to make it through.

[Daniel]

It's for pussies.

[Stanley Burrell]

Let's make a nice thread that everyone will fight, flame and argue about.

Have you thought about?. would you think about it? Would you do it? What do you think of others who have done it or attempted to do it?

I think everyone has a point where they would think about it.. if you have not considered it yet then simply you have not been to "that" point yet....... and you're lying if you think you could never reach that point.

I had a lot of ideations when taking about 6-12mgs of combined Ativan and Klonopin on a daily basis.

I would only do it now if I had one of those really awesome cyanide capsules and had to make the stoic decision of using it to defend myself from the brutal torture and humiliation of my secrets being released and my pride torn when on some kind of l33t special-forces-style-overseas-mission against the Soviets 'n shit.

[Artha]

It's sad.

[Fallen]

I considered it once or twice, and came close a few times inadvertently with sleeping pills. Ultimately, I realized the amount of pain and shame it would bring to my family, so I could never go through with the act.

[Gan]

Never tried it.

Never thought about it.

I consider it a cowards way out.

Face your problems, quit running from them. Stand up and fight for something, like your own life.

[Ilvane]

I wouldn't, personally. I have had a friend who killed himself by shooting himself in the head. It was junior year of high school, and he had gotten in trouble at school and couldn't go to prom.

He got drunk, took a gun to his head, and killed himself.

Was it worth it? No. It's definitely, as someone said, the most selfish thing a person can do.

Angela

[DeV]

No. I, too, consider it to be a selfish act more so than anything. Despair, misery, and the other accompanying feelings that a person contemplating such an action may feel will not last forever. It's only too bad that those who've successfully committed suicide did not realize this sooner.

[AnticorRifling]

I think about killing other people. But never myself. I love me.

[Alfster]

I've never considered it but the only time I can think that it would even be considered okay is if a person is so injured they're going to die anyway. Like, being mauled by a grizzly bear while hunting with no way out and two chewed off legs.

[StrayRogue]

I'd only commit suicide if I was the cripple guy in Metallica's One video.

Otherwise, no way.

[Gan]

I think about killing other people. But never myself. I love me.

Anticor FTMFW!

[Jazuela]

I could understand ending my life, if there was nothing left to it anyway (such as a horribly painful terminal illness or spending the next 20 years as a vegetable hooked up to machines). Other than extreme circumstances like that, I can't imagine ever wanting to die, let alone doing it to myself on purpose.

[Goretawn]

OK, think about these two statements:

StrayRogue: I'd only commit suicide if I was the cripple guy in Metallica's One video.

Kind of hard without arms, legs, eyes, ears, ability to even talk. Yeah, probably not a good example.

Jazuela: spending the next 20 years as a vegetable hooked up to machines.

Um, if you were a vegetable hooked up to machines, that would also make it a bit difficult.

I can understand the painful terminal illness concept though.

[StrayRogue]

Smartass.

[Wezas]

If I were told I only had a few weeks to live and it would be a painful death, I'd probably do something similar to that "Last Holiday" movie. And of course spend time with family (no friends) to say goodbye. And then OD on sleeping pills.

That's probably the only reason.

[Asha]

OK, think about these two statements:

StrayRogue: I'd only commit suicide if I was the cripple guy in Metallica's One video.

Kind of hard without arms, legs, eyes, ears, ability to even talk. Yeah, probably not a good example.

Eat off and swallow tongue, that's a joyously horrific way to go too!

[Daniel]

OK, think about these two statements:

StrayRogue: I'd only commit suicide if I was the cripple guy in Metallica's One video.

Kind of hard without arms, legs, eyes, ears, ability to even talk. Yeah, probably not a good example.

.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

[Leetahkin]

Have you thought about?. would you think about it? Would you do it? What do you think of others who have done it or attempted to do it?

Have you thought about it? Yes
would you think about it? See prior answer
Would you do it? No
What do you think of others who have done it or attempted to do it? One who possesses a weak mind/spirit.

[Asha]

One who possesses a weak mind/spirit.
Shame some don't wait to help those attributes become stronger.
But I can't agree with that point, Monica. Some who commit suicide aren't either weak minded or weak in spirit.
Historicly speaking anyway. Eg hiri kiri ect.

[Sean of the Thread]

Shame some don't wait to help those attributes become stronger.
But I can't agree with that point, Monica. Some who commit suicide aren't either weak minded or weak in spirit.
Historicly speaking anyway. Eg hiri kiri ect.

Exactly.

[CrystalTears]

Weak, coward, selfish... funny how someone who is suicidal is all of that but someone who is an alcoholic, has an abortion, gets a tattoo is for the most part okay because it's their body, their business. And don't say that none of those affect people around you because that's untrue as well.

I've never thought of it or tried it because frankly, I'm too chicken shit of death.

[Miss X]

Ever seriously thought about it? No way, I love being alive and I consider life a gift I don't want to waste. That and I'm FAR to gutless to attempt it, I'm scared of dying.

What do I think of people who DO attempt or succeed? You know, it's really difficult to put yourself in the shoes of someone who is suffering from significant mental illness, when you've never suffered with anything that significant yourself. I can only say this... My mother has lived on the edge of suicide for all of her adult life, having attempted and failed 4 times, we've talked extensively about why she was this way (she's doing fine now and has been for a long time.)

My mum basically says she physically couldn't cope with the emotional pain anymore and she just wanted it to be over. She'd gone through a terrible time, I won't go into details, but I wouldn't have coped had I been her. It was the only thing she had control of. Ive often asked her if she thought about my Sister and I when she was doing it and she says the pain was all encompassing and not even love for us was strong enough to make her stay around.

The thing is, people do come through it and my mum is the most amazing woman I've ever known. They just need understanding and support. It might be thought of as weak or a cowards way out but I think I'll hold back my judgment until I've been there.

[Artha]

I don't really understand the coward claims. Try holding a razor to your wrist and tell me you don't have to be a bit brave to complete the act.

[Daniel]

gets a tattoo is for the most part okay because it's their body, their business. And don't say that none of those affect people around you because that's untrue as well.



What the fuck?

[CrystalTears]

Heh, what? You know how much shit I got for getting a tattoo? Yeah it affected quite a few people around me, good and bad. And in some states getting a tattoo is illegal.

[Sean of the Thread]

CT GOT A TATT ON HER BOOOOOOOBIE. rawr

[Daniel]

How did YOU getting a tattoo effect someone else?

P.s. Who the fuck cares if its illegal in like one state. You can still go to the next one and get it.

[CrystalTears]

Why are you asking me why my mother didn't speak to me for a year because of it? I don't make the rules.

But that's really my point that no matter what you do to yourself, it always affects at least one other person around you in one way or another. I just don't like how people pick and choose what is and isn't okay to do yourself. And honestly, if someone is THAT eager to rid themselves of their life, that's their right.

[Miss X]

And honestly, if someone is THAT eager to rid themselves of their life, that's their right.

I think essentially, this is the main argument and I certainly identify with it and see the logic within the statement. However, we also have to look at WHY someone wants to end their life. In the case of someone like Diane Pretty (the woman with end stage MND who, with her husband, lost a court battle in which she fought for the right to end her life on her own terms) I think it's the right thing to allow someone to do that.

The problem arises when we are talking about people with mental health problems who wish to commit suicide for rather less logical (logical to us) reasons. In these situations we have a duty to protect their lives because quite often they recover and are so thankful for this.

[Beguiler]

Have you thought about it? Yes
would you think about it? Now, never.
Would you do it? No
What do you think of others who have done it or attempted to do it? I feel deep compassion for them.. A close family member was suffering from severe, major depression, and attempted suicide, but changed her mind and called for help. I am so glad that she has recovered, and she would answer the above three questions the same. It's easy to call them weak, or other names, but in the end, it was pain beyond their ability to cope. Be a friend, help, be there for them. Remind them there is another day, a better day, and people who care.

[Praefection]

When I was a senior in high school I had some major issues with depression. During a 5 month period or so I had tried to OD with over the counter pills at least half a dozen times. My mother, loving as she is, thought I had the 'flu' when I would spend days doing nothing but throw up.

The last time was the kicker for me when I got my ass on anti depressents and left home to live with cousins in California.

Now that I can think back it was stupid but at the time I didn't really care one way or another if I died. Thanks in part to my stupidity I can't take certain pills because they make me ill.

[Latrinsorm]

Definition: Suicide is the ending of one's own life through personal choice (that is, not through coercion or under the influence of mind-altering substances). For the purposes of this discussion, it seems as if we're excluding the concept of ultimate self-sacrifice from the definition.

I have thought about it. I would not do it.

As human beings, we are inherently social, connected with each other in a very profound way. However, we are also capable of experiencing unbearable amounts of pain. A human can only respond to these levels by withdrawing from the world. It must be recommended that this be a temporary solution, but it is hard to fault those who seek release.
Face your problems, quit running from them.Humans are, by definition, limited beings. There is only so much we, as humans, can face. I don't want to get inappropriately personal, so I'll leave this as an optional exercise to the reader: Can you not imagine a catastrophe so brutal that you would be literally uncapable of bearing it?
Despair, misery, and the other accompanying feelings that a person contemplating such an action may feel will not last forever. This is very easy to say when not in the throes of despair, misery, etc. This is much harder to bark at a woman who has (for instance) lost her three children due to a personal negligence she couldn't possibly anticipate (for instance, a car being struck by lightning and catching fire).

From a legal perspective, I don't see how it's possible to legalize abortion and not suicide, but then logic has never been a strong point of the law.

[Daniel]

Why are you asking me why my mother didn't speak to me for a year because of it? I don't make the rules.

But that's really my point that no matter what you do to yourself, it always affects at least one other person around you in one way or another. I just don't like how people pick and choose what is and isn't okay to do yourself. And honestly, if someone is THAT eager to rid themselves of their life, that's their right.

U r dumb.

[DeV]

This is very easy to say when not in the throes of despair, misery, etc. This is much harder to bark at a woman who has (for instance) lost her three children due to a personal negligence she couldn't possibly anticipate (for instance, a car being struck by lightning and catching fire).

Right. I'm sure that everyone who committs suicide has a very good reason, according to you, Latrin. I stand by my statement, unless you have anything further to add.

[Drew2]

When I was young I used to contemplate suicide. But then again, most kids who have fucked up childhoods do.

In the end I was too scared of death to do it.

The thought hasn't crossed my mind since the day my mother left my step-father, though.

As for others, I think there are some people who have done it who shouldn't have, and some who haven't that should.

[Asha]

As for others, I think there are some people who have done it who shouldn't have, and some who haven't that should.

That wins.

[zhelas]

Anger, Self Loathing, Columbine, Suicide by cop, Man Rejects first penis transplant http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,,1874818,00.html, family killed in major disasters, loneliness.

I am sure not all folks who commit suicide are weak minded. They probably reached a breaking point where they can't take it anymore. Depression can be overpowering and it makes it difficult to think clearly.

[Latrinsorm]

Right. I'm sure that everyone who committs suicide has a very good reason, according to you, Latrin. I stand by my statement, unless you have anything further to add.If you want to be concerned only with the supposed majority, ok. I personally consider every life to be important, so I don't think it's appropriate to discard fringe examples that don't coincide with my position or to paint every person with the same broad brush. Especially in cases like these, it's vital to consider every possibility before we denote an act as "selfish".

"I'm really bad at golf, I want to die."
"Stop being so selfish."

That seems appropriate.

"My children died horribly, I want to die."
"Stop being so selfish."

That one, not so much.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I hold the belief that most people who commit suicide are mentally ill-- if someone has Major Depressive Disorder or Bipolar Disorder, who the hell is anybody to call them weak? To me that's like saying that someone who died of Cancer is weak. It's a disease, and like most diseases, many mood disorders have the power to kill. People who think it's a matter of willpower are merely ignorant and aren't worth me getting upset over. I do have a personal interest in it though, considering I lost a family member over it.

Second, there are some things that fit in the category of suicide but aren't viewed as, OMG THEY KILLED THEMSELVES, THEY'RE SO SELFISH. An example is the buddy who throws himself onto a grenade to protect his friends during war time. He died and he did it willfully, but he did it to save others and suceeded. No one's going to call him a selfish bastard, I don't think.

[DeV]

Reply to Latrin: If this is going to turn into a debate over your thoughts on suicide vs. mine do me a favor and save it for someone not used to a circular style of devil's advocate debate with no end in sight. You won't change my mind and I've no interest in changing yours.

As far as this argument is concerned, your definition of selfish in those examples don't come close to what my statement intended. The reason one committs suicide may be many, however the action itself as desperate as it is encompasses a selfishness not conceived by one so far gone they'd so such a thing in the first place.

Suicide is truly an act of desperation.That's been established. Once completed, there are those left behind to pick up the pieces, literally, starting with the person lucky enough to find your dead body. Family, friends, peers and so on are who I think about when I use the term selfish.

[ElanthianSiren]

Beguiler Format Woo!!! (Yes, I hijacked and ammended your response)

Have you thought about it? Yes
would you think about it? Now, never.
Would you do it? Yes, if I was in a situation with regard to my medical issues that low probability existed of coming back from.
What do you think of others who have done it or attempted to do it? I feel deep compassion for them. It's easy to call them weak, or other names, but in the end, it's pain beyond ability to cope.

:heart:

-M
the only exception to my compassion are the borderline histrionic people who whip out the suicide card every time their s/o breaks up with them. I haven't seen that for years though.

[DeV]

Second, there are some things that fit in the category of suicide but aren't viewed as, OMG THEY KILLED THEMSELVES, THEY'RE SO SELFISH. An example is the buddy who throws himself onto a grenade to protect his friends during war time. He died and he did it willfully, but he did it to save others and suceeded. No one's going to call him a selfish bastard, I don't think.
Or Jesus Christ and he was the most selfless man to walk the earth.

However, the example above would not be one I'd quickly label suicide in the legal or general sense of the word. Perhaps for others, but personally I'd probably do the same if it came to saving my family or loved ones. The difference being that it would not be my intent to kill myself, even if that was the only viable outcome. My intention would be to preserve life in the only way possible. Most people do not committ suicide with that general feeling in mind.

[zhelas]

Selfish act? Sure. But Depression can be so bad that folks are unable to see how their deaths can affect friends and family around them.

Do we blame someone who commits suicide? Do we blame ourselves for not being able to recognize the signs to offer help?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

If this is going to turn into a debate over your thoughts on suicide vs. mine do me a favor and save it for someone not used to a circular style of devil's advocate debate with no end in sight. You won't change my mind and I've no interest in changing yours.

As far as this argument is concerned, your definition of selfish in those examples don't come close to what my statement intended. The reason one committs suicide may be many, the act, however desperate I believe encompasses a selfishness not conceived by one so far gone they'd so such a thing in the first place.

Suicide is truly an act of desperation.That's been established. Once completed, there are those left behind to pick up the pieces, literally, starting with the person lucky enough to find your dead body. Family, friends, peers and so on are who I think about when I use the term selfish.

In the most clear-headed and thought out way, Suicide is selfish. However, most of the people who commit suicide are not clear-headed and thinking right, therefore it doesn't really matter.

I lost my mother to suicide when I was three. I'd rather not go into gory details here on the board. However, she had been getting treatment for Bipolar disorder and my dad and her had been openly communicating. From what he's told me and her last journal entries, including the one she wrote before it happened, she did it because she felt to stay alive would be selfish. From her point of view:

1. She'd end up in and out of the hospital her whole life, what kind of a mother is that for their children?

2. Her hospital and therapist and medication bills were immense and she felt she was robbing the family of the money that could be put to better use.

3. While she was suffering from Bipolar she couldn't work and was just a financial and emotional burden, providing nothing for anybody.

4. My Brother and I "deserved" a mom who was normal and could be there for us without the risk of severe mood swings or any other limitations.

5. My Father deserved to have a wife who could be there for him as much as he was for her, and she was emotionally unable to do that.


In her warped perspective, the social security money that was collectible after her death and the freedom to get a new wife and mother for my brother, dad and I all justified her suicide. Of course to a rational mind that's ridiculous, nothing can replace your mother, but you see that while she was thinking about us, she was thinking about us in a way that's not "normal". From her perspective, she was being selfless.

[CrystalTears]

And for many people, that's how it starts. "Everyone would be better off without me, so why stay and make them suffer."

[Kranar]

It's funny that many people here view suicide as selfish. I can definitely respect that view but would point to several instances of suicide or attempted suicide being used for entirely unselfish reasons. Ghandi attempting suicide is the most notable case.

I also wish to point to what I consider flawed points of view regarding suicide as acceptable during extreme physical pain, but entirely selfish when done as a result of extreme emotional pain. It suggests that physical pain is more harmful to an individual than emotional pain which I think, more and more, is being regarded as an erroneous point of view.

Philosophically, it has been believed for millenia that emotional/mental pain is more severe that physical pain. Very few other species, if any, do feel emotional pain and emotional pain is incredibly complex and affects virtually every aspect of a human's life. Modern medicine is also coming to find that significance and consequences of emotional pain. Even if emotional pain is not as extreme as physical pain, emotional pain should not be regarded as lesser than physical pain. As such, anyone who believes that suicide is acceptable as a result of extreme or permanent physical pain should also accept that suicide is acceptable as a result of extreme and permanent emotional conditions.

I don't think people who commit suicide are selfish. I think they are people who struggled very hard with a difficult problem and simply chose the wrong solution to that problem. Killing oneself is by no means an easy task or something someone does lightly, and while I entirely disagree with suicide, I wouldn't trivialize the complex emotions and thought processes that someone seriously contemplating suicide goes through as anything but extreme and extensive, perhaps even brave. One can, however, be both brave and terribly wrong.

Have I thought about suicide? When I'm on top of a really tall building I find myself always wondering what it would be like to just run real fast and jump off of it. That's about it though.

I'd much rather live a life of immense physical suffering than die though. People put too much emphasis on physical pain and think that physical qualities of life are the most significant, but I think the ultimate kind of pain would be death itself. The pain of never being able to experience anything again. It's not physical pain, it's not even emotional pain, it's a sort of existential pain that in my opinion dominates over everything else.

When my time comes, it comes, until then whether I'm suffering physically, emotionally, or whatever kind of suffering I am going through, I think it's my responsibility to do my best to make the most of it and appreciate whatever the heck I can.

[zhelas]

And for many people, that's how it starts. "Everyone would be better off without me, so why stay and make them suffer."

A lie or feeling repeated over and over to oneself can become the truth in their mind.

Beating oneself up is so easy. You know your weakness and can act on it.

[DeV]

Selfish act? Sure. But Depression can be so bad that folks are unable to see how their deaths can affect friends and family around them. Exactly. In seeing both sides of the issue I understand that as selfish as it may appear to an outsider, it is not something the person contemplating it can fathom.


Do we blame someone who commits suicide? I was very angry at my friend for attempting suicide 3 times within a three month period, but I understood the pain she was going through made it seem as if dying was her only option. She has a son and he is all I could think about. She didn't want her family to know about her extreme emotional problems, and I encouraged her repeatedly to seek help, medication, anything to help her through that time period where despair was her only thought. It is an absolutely horrible thing to watch someone go through and to go through with them. It doesn't only affect the individual and all I could think of daily was if this was her last day on earth and how I would face her family if she ever succeded.


Do we blame ourselves for not being able to recognize the signs to offer help?Most people that actually succeed in killing themselves don't "talk" about it, they just do it. Sometimes it's almost impossible to recognize the signs.

[Ilvane]

I think most of us at one time or another have been in a bad situation where there seems to be no way out of the sadness.

I also know that it's hard to ask people for help, for the very reason that you don't want to burden others with your problems.

But..If you are at a point where you are thinking dying is the only way, it's time to reach out, with every bit of life you have in you.

My opinion.

Angela

[Bobmuhthol]

All acts are selfish acts. It's how humans work. You'd have to have a broken brain to not act selfishly.

[Artha]

All acts are selfish acts. It's how humans work. You'd have to have a broken brain to not act selfishly.
Explain altruism.

[Bobmuhthol]

Broken brain.

Also, altruism is a pretty flawed concept: if you willingly do something, you must want to do it.

[Gan]

Pearls of wisdom from Gemstone.

I saw this as I was taking the ferry across Vipershroud from Landing to EN.



The ferryman says, "You know, no matter how bad things get, it's still good to be alive."

[Artha]

And if you want to do it at no benefit to yourself, you're not acting selfishly. It's an oddity of evolution.

[Bobmuhthol]

Doing something that has no benefit is not the same as doing something that has a negative self-impact. Breaking even is still being in the black.

.. and there's probably a subtle "You'd do the same for me" implication which would be obviously selfish.

[Drew]

Do we blame ourselves for not being able to recognize the signs to offer help?


Everyone is responsible for their own actions in the end. You have to pull the trigger/swallow the pills/whatever.

[Eoghain]

I contemplated suicide as I was vomiting up bad Thai food this morning like a pregnant asian lady. But then I just decided to go to work. Bad call. Badbadbad...

[Doyle Hargraves]

Cheer up emo kid.

[Marl]

Thought about suicide? once or twice in my teenage years...narcotics relieved me from those thoughts though.
Now thoughts about ending others lives b/c of pain/anguish/general idiocy caused on me? Probably on a daily basis

[Latrinsorm]

If this is going to turn into a debate over your thoughts on suicide vs. mine do me a favor and save it for someone not used to a circular style of devil's advocate debate with no end in sight.The truly circular argument is "I am right, therefore all other possibilities are immaterial".
the action itself as desperate as it is encompasses a selfishness not conceived by one so far gone they'd so such a thing in the first place.The point is that a person who commits suicide because ey loves(d) other people can't be predominantly motivated by selfishness, and it's really obnoxious to say people like that are, which is what I hope my sample dialogue illustrated.
All acts are selfish acts. It's how humans work. You'd have to have a broken brain to not act selfishly.This [psychological egoism] is factually incorrect, Bob, and results from a bit of an equivocation that I will go into shortly.
if you willingly do something, you must want to do it.There is a very subtle and very profound difference between the following two thought processes:
a) I do this because I want to do this.
b) I do this because I want (to do) this for me.
Put succinctly, the subject of a desire is not necessarily the object of that desire. If I say I find Natalie Portman beautiful, it does not make me a narcissist.

It is true that all free acts are self-motivated to some extent. This does not (necessarily) make them self-focused, self-centered, or self-ish.

[TheEschaton]

Have you thought about it? Quite a few times
would you think about it? Not now, no, but I do have a rather morbid imagination, along the lines of the guy who said that when he's on top of a tall building, he thinks about what it would be like to jump
Would you do it? Sure, if I saw no other option. As Marcus Aurielius said, "If the hut burns...get out." I am, unlike others, not afraid of death. Hell, in Ancient Greece, suicide was considered the honorable way to go out if the shit hit the fan.
What do you think of others who have done it or attempted to do it? From Dostoevsky's the Brothers Karamazov, the Homilies of the Elder Zosima: "[T]o the suicides...I think there can be no one unhappier than they. We are told that it is a sin to pray to God for them, and outwardly the Church rejects them, as it were, but in the secret of my soul I think that one may pray for them as well. Christ will not be angered by love." I acknowledge that many people cannot find a way to cope - and therefore end it. It's a mistake, in my opinion, but they're entitled to make their own choices. I think abortion is a selfish mistake, but I believe in the right for people to make that mistake.

-TheE-

[DeV]

The point is that a person who commits suicide because ey loves(d) other people can't be predominantly motivated by selfishness, and it's really obnoxious to say people like that are, which is what I hope my sample dialogue illustrated.No, not really, but then again it all boils down to my obnoxious opinion as opposed to your inexperienced one. I'll stick with mine and you feel free to believe things I never stated.

[Latrinsorm]

I, too, consider it to be a selfish actYeah, you got me, I was really putting words in your mouth there.

[Jazuela]

The only time I really thought about it, I mean gave the idea serious thought, was when I thought about my best friend trying to kill herself. It was a bunch of years ago. She was taking anti-depression meds, going through a very unpleasant divorce with a custody battle and lots her 2 kids to their father's custody. No alimony, and she ended up arrested for going to a lover's house and ramming her car into his on purpose on the side of the road (this was a few months after the divorce).

She just totally broke down mentally and emotionally, and ended up in a psych ward as a failed suicide attempt. She called me on the phone and told me she wanted to make it all stop and kill herself for real this time. I didn't know how to deal with it, but she got me SO mad...I told her something like this:

"If you kill yourself, your ex wins. He wins your kids forever, and will have every justification in the world to tell your children how totally fucked up their mother was. Do you want that? Is that the legacy you want to give to my godson and his brother? Is that how you want your children to remember you - as the whacko freak who slit her wrists? Or do you want them to remember you as the woman who loved them and lived to a ripe old age, caring for -their- children on weekends and enjoying family picnics together? How do you want your children to remember you?"

...I yelled all this to her and didn't use quite as polite terms, but whatever it was that I said, seemed to have a calming effect on her and she chilled out long enough to open up to her shrink and get to work on herself. Last I heard from her, she gets visits from her kids regularly, she got herself a job and a housemate, she's gone back to school for post-graduate studies, and she sounded like she was doing a great job at picking the pieces of her life back up and putting them together again.

She tells me it's because I was the only one who didn't try to mollycoddle her or pity her or give her advice or try to shove a prescription down her throat, and brought home to her mind what was -really- important: her children, and the legacy she leaves them when she does die some day. I think she was already on the road to recovery by then, and just needed a push in the direction she already knew she needed to go. Whatever it was, it's done great and I'm thankful she's still alive and doing well.

[FinallyDomesticated]

That old saying about walking in other people's shoes comes to mind here.

I can see how a person could feel so hopeless about a situation that they see it as their salvation.

I think some people entertain/discuss the thought just to get attention. From those in relationships to those who just want a day without crap or a bit of pampering.

Would I try it? No - for a variety of reasons. It would hurt those around me. I think its a sin. It requires way too much commitment for my tastes - after dropping a few stories I am certain I would have realized this was a bad idea and you can't exactly take a mulligan there. It sounds very painful. Not to mention that knowing my luck, I'd completely screw it up somehow which really would suck for the psyche if I'm already that desolate and miserable. 'Gee, she couldn't even figure out how to kill herself right.'

[Apathy]

My only opinion on suicide is that whomever first decided to drink Drano to do it was one hardcore mother fucker.

[DeV]

predominantly motivated by selfishnessI never said the predominant motivation or reason a person would committ suicide is deliberate selfishness. I indicated that the act itself is selfish, desperate, despairing and many other things, IMHO. Obviously the reasoning behind wanting to committ suicide will vary from person to person and they are certainly not ending their life out of vicious spite. Everyones circumstance is unique. But to say I stated a person would kill themself primarily to be selfish means you did not comprehend my post.

[Olanan]

How the fuck do you "attempt" suicide? There is no attempt. You get a gun, and pull the trigger. No, not pointing at your leg. No, not your arm or your chest. Your head.

I thought about it once, but only in curiosity. I've always wanted to know how it feels to jump off a building. But then, I never want to be put in a situation where I have a short time to think about my death and how I can do absolutely nothing about.

I thought about it when I was 11. I was the fat kid till I was about 13. I was short, fat, and unpopular. I was also Agnostic in a town full of Baptists. I got picked on, beat up a lot, and teased for 7 long years and I couldn't really do anything about it. I had awful grades from this and my father was really severe on grades, which resulted in me sitting in my room all day every day.

My mother was in constant 24/7 pain from a back surgery so I felt like I was hurting her by existing. Combine all this with being a pussy and that I was always curious about what happened after you die, yeah, I thought about it.

<======Pantywaist

[Berylla]

Why are you asking me why my mother didn't speak to me for a year because of it? I don't make the rules.

But that's really my point that no matter what you do to yourself, it always affects at least one other person around you in one way or another. I just don't like how people pick and choose what is and isn't okay to do yourself. And honestly, if someone is THAT eager to rid themselves of their life, that's their right.

No, it's really not their right. Not only is it against the law to attempt suicide, it's considered spousal abuse.

My ex-husband decided that after I told him to leave, he was going to put on a show for me. I don't call it attempted suicide because I know he had no intention of ever going through with it.

He took a handful of Tylenol and then dialed 911 - while I slept up in my room unaware of anything going on. I was woken up to a policeman in my bedroom at 2 in the morning. He was taken to the hospital where he was kept under surveilance for 3 days in the psych ward.

The police asked me if I wanted a restraining order. I was surprised to find out that it is spousal abuse but immediately said "yes" to the restraining order. He was allowed back in the house 3 days later to gather his things. That is the last I have seen of him and I recently heard he died.

Do you think maybe his stupidity and his actions had a little bit of an effect on my life?? umm...maybe kinda?

Your life is not always yours to live as you choose. What you do and the choices you make can take quite a toll on the people around you. I think the worst thing you can do is to have any sympathy at all for a person who is just being self-centered by trying to commit suicide. Most are just attempts afterall.

I save my sympathy for those who truly deserve it. Manipulative cowards don't deserve it.

Have I ever thought about it? Sure. Would I ever? No - I'm better than that.

[Artha]

How the fuck do you "attempt" suicide? There is no attempt. You get a gun, and pull the trigger. No, not pointing at your leg. No, not your arm or your chest. Your head.

Except that makes a mess, and there are other, "cleaner" ways to do it.

[FinallyDomesticated]

How the fuck do you "attempt" suicide?


Okay so you've lost your job, lost your car, wife just slept with your best friends and a few of your cousins, your parents hate you, your dog doesn't even like you, there's a few hundred in the negative in your bank account and who knows what else that has already fucked your head up enough to convince you that taking your life is the only answer.

You're not exactly thinking straight not to mention that if you've never shot a gun before, there's a good chance you're going to end up shooting an ear off or a painting off the wall not to mention the fact that you probably can't even afford a gun.

Maybe you decide to jump off a bridge or a building. Seems easy enough. People have survived huge jumps before and come out with broken bones. Worse yet you could become paralyzed so now you can't move AND your life sucks.

So there's the rusty exacto knife in the junk drawer. You try that but unless you're familiar with anatomy there's a pretty decent chance you'll not slash yourself in a fatal manner which will lead to medical bills and bills to have your carpet cleaned.

Then there's your mother's pills in the cabinet so you figure you'll just eat all of those which lands you in a vomiting, foaming at the mouth fit where if found your stomach will probably be pumped.

I'm sorry but that is honestly about the stupidest question I've read all day. How do you attempt suicide? Geez.

[Bobmuhthol]

Even Jigsaw failed his suicide attempt.

[Olanan]

...

I thought everyone had at LEAST three shotguns. :rtfm:

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Well, my mother's choice was a choice she made because it was "clean" though the effect on me because of it (I was in the other room) was pretty bad. I can't imagine if she'd used a gun though. Hearing her die was horrible but I think I'd be even more haunted if I'd seen blood on the walls when the police finally got me. However, what she did have the chance of it not working and permanently paralyzing her. There are many ways that sure-fire suicide attempts can be just attempts.

[Olanan]

And brains. Don't forget the brains.

[Wyndshadow]

Ok I know this was written a few days ago, but I haven't been on in awhile.
I wanted to say something on this subject. I had posted a thread onmy myspace a few days ago and had mention something on the subject. I reposted the thread from my myspace here under 'Lost' if you want to read.
But here is what I said in it :
I think that is why sometimes we hear about people taking their own life, but having no real 'reason' to want to leave this world. They had good jobs and a decent life. I think they were one of the people 'standing' there and just decided to give up and make no choice at all. I do not believe in that path. I believe there is always a choice.
I really don't believe in suicide, but everyone has their own opinion. My life, I think, personally sucks right now, but I would never end it. I have a son and responsibilities. My son I think is the only bright spot in my life and I have to say he does keep me going. I believe every action or choice someone takes in life does have its own effects. That is one of the main reasons I wrote my 'lost' thread. Ok, I think enough said I will let the thread drop now.