Guild skill questions.

[Anebriated]

To start... What factors go into the penalty modifier in tackle? I know when I put my lance away the penalty goes down, but when I remove my armor it goes up. Just trying to figure out how to get it as low as possible...


1. Hands empty/full
2. Size of target
3. Trained for armor
4. Limb Injuries
5. Encumbrance
6. Target stunned/bound
?

[AnticorRifling]

When you remove your armor, and stow it on your person, you incur the full weight of said armor towards encumberance. If you've got some heavy armor (plate class or even some mail class) you're going to incur a penalty. Disk or locker your armor and then try.

[Anebriated]

I guess I didnt think brig weighed that much.

[AnticorRifling]

It's like what? 30lbs. It can make a dent in your encumberance when you're not wearing it (The "norm" weight of an armor class is ignored when worn as far as encumberance is concerned)

[Bobmuhthol]

Or just be trained enough to wear your armor so you don't get a penalty using it.

Injuries are a really, really big factor in the penalty, and it can get pretty substantial, to the point where you can't tackle something like-level anymore because your injuries are giving you a -75 penalty. Very annoying.

[AnticorRifling]

1) Skill
2) ???
3) Profit
4) your lvl vs target lvl
5) hands
6) encumberance
7) dumb luck

These are all logical guesses on my part and should not be considered gospel.

[Anebriated]

Pretty sure I am trained for my armor, unless brig takes more than 45 ranks to wear these days.

[Bobmuhthol]

Bipeds are inherently easier to tackle than other things with more than two legs, as well, which is reflected in the penalty.

[Aaysia]

A friend researched this for me a while back and this is what he told me.

Holding any weapon in your hand is a -10 penalty.
Your size versus that of your target plays a factor
Being undertrained for your armor causes a penalty
Being encumbered causes a penalty
Limb Injuries cause penalties
The armor you are wearing in comparison of your targets is taken into consideration
Stats play a role, though not determined as to how much of one, in your particular case I can't imagine that being an issue.
There may or may not be a level component involved, though my guess leans towards not likely.
A stunned target gives you a bonus of 10
A webbed/bound target gives you a bonus of 40
Targets with more than 2 legs gives you a penalty of 10

[Bobmuhthol]

<<3) Profit>>

No idea what this means.

<<4) your lvl vs target lvl>>

Doesn't affect the penalty number, but is a factor in the success of tackle itself.

<<7) dumb luck>>

Same thing.

<<Pretty sure I am trained for my armor, unless brig takes more than 45 ranks to wear these days.>>

Then you don't need to take it off to tackle. It can't help you.

[Anebriated]

Its what, 60 ranks to master a skill?

[Latrinsorm]

63.

Level vs. level plays a very significant part in the hidden formula, but has very little (probably no) effect on the penalty value.

Brig weighs 25 pounds. (Point of interest: Metal breastplate only weighs 23 pounds, despite being chain hauberk (27) with a solid metal breastplate. Whee, GS physics!!!)

Penalty is actually a fairly unimportant factor, really. Don't be wounded (or severely scarred) and don't get too encumbered (which you should be staying away from anyway) and penalty will be fine. 2x CM is more important.

[Anebriated]

Unfotionately the penalty is kind of important for me atm because I pretty much need to roll a 65 or better to successfully tackle something. So rather than sit around and get my head pounded in Im trying to reduce the penalty as far as I can so I can tackle a bit easier and knock the reps out before I die.

[Bobmuhthol]

One of the easiest ways to reduce penalty for critter reps is to attack and stun your target first.

Or, if you have someone willing to help you out, bind whatever you're tackling.

[Anebriated]

I guess I could log in my sorc but hes currently dead in solhaven because nobody is ever around to do a rescue there.

[Insodus]

Easiest way to do guild reps is to underhunt. Or rather, don't do them while you hunt.

Hunt something your lvl, then go to something 8 lvls under you (you get reps up to 10 under you I believe) and fly through your reps.

For example, at 46 I go to the glacier and can do tackle, disarm, berserk, and warcry reps in about 5 minutes. Then go sit at the guild and stay numbed for an hour.

Moral of the story, listen to Latrinsorm, penalty is so insignificant to the actual hidden formula, in which lvl vs lvl is huge.

[Latrinsorm]

Unfotionately the penalty is kind of important for me atm because I pretty much need to roll a 65 or better to successfully tackle something.What I'm saying is other choices involved are a lot more important than the penalty. It sounds like you're trying to overhunt-tackle a square creature or something that won't necessarily have a tough penalty value but will still be really hard to tackle.

Or, what Insodus said.

[Anebriated]

Ive been doing my reps in the basement of AI, but on 4 legged creatures so thats probably where the penalty is coming from. Not exactly sure where else to find something around 10 and im too lazy to pull out maps so ill just suck it up.


btw, thanks for the help earlier insodus. <3 Still cant figure out how you got to bert though.

[Insodus]

go door
n
e
go door

[Anebriated]

thanks.


trying to combine reps isnt a good idea. Heard a nice pop after doing a tackle rep followed by a berserk rep...

[Stunseed]

I don't have a problem with critter reps so much anymore, just gotta pace yourself. The only thing that gets me at times is the stamina drain after a berserk rep at times. Normally I can do warcry/berserk in one hunt.

[AnticorRifling]

I just did them as a grind. Did nothing until I mastered tackle, then warcry, then berserk. In that order.

If you're doing berserk reps in Ta'Vaalor here's something I wrote that might help you:

#berserk.Cmd

start:
put get my %weapon
put gld
match creatures Berserk against creatures.
match icetubs go practice in the ice tubs.
match springs go practice in the saunas.
matchwait

creatures:
put stance def
waitfor You are now
echo
echo ****************************
echo ** Time for Critter reps! **
echo ****************************
goto finish

icetubs:
put put %weapon in my %sheath
pause 1
move n
move w
move w
move s
move s
move e
move e
move go bridge
move go citadel
move w
move w
move s
move s
move e
move e
move climb stair
move go tubs
put splash
match splash Brrr!
match berserktub quit shivering
matchwait

splash:
pause 1
put splash
match splash Brrr!
match berserktub quit shivering
matchwait

berserktub:
pause 1
put berserk
match stamina1 You are beginning to feel a little fatigued.
match berserktub remaining.]
match berserktub lose the moment.
match donetub task.]
matchwait

donetub:
put stand
pause 1
move out
move up
move w
move w
move n
move n
move e
move e
move out
move go bridge
move w
move w
move n
move n
move e
move e
move s
put ask thon about training berserk
waitfor All done with that task?
put ask thon about training berserk
match start You feel fully energetic again.
match prom You need to get promoted
matchwait

springs:
put put my %weapon in my %sheath
move n
move e
move e
move s
move s
move se
move go springs
put meditate
match meditate deal with the trifles...
match berserkspring rage quite easily now
matchwait

meditate:
pause 1
put meditate
match meditate deal with the trifles...
match berserkspring rage quite easily now
matchwait

berserkspring:
pause 1
put berserk
match stamina2 You are beginning to feel a little fatigued.
match berserkspring remaining.]
match berserkspring lose the moment.
match donespring task.]
matchwait

donespring:
put stand
pause 1
move out
move nw
move n
move n
move w
move w
move s
put ask thon about training berserk
waitfor All done with that task?
put ask thon about training berserk
match start You feel fully energetic again.
match prom You need to get promoted
matchwait

prom:
move n
move w
move w
move s
move s
move e
move e
move go bridge
move go citadel
move go doors
put ask Alyssa about next berserk
waitfor Alyssa completes
move go doors
move out
move go bridge
move w
move w
move n
move n
move e
move e
move s
put ask thon about training berserk
waitfor Let's find you something
goto start

stamina1:
waitfor You feel fully energetic again.
goto berserktub

stamina2:
waitfor You feel fully energetic again.
goto berserkspring

finish:
exit

[Anebriated]

Alright I dont feel like making a new thread so im gonna add on to this one. Where should I place my Cman points? Here is what I have so far.

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Specialization I wspec1 3
Weapon Bonding bonding 2
Surge of Strength surge 2

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 10
Total Points converted during your current 30-day unlearning cycle: 17
Number of days remaining in your current 30-day unlearning cycle: 21 days

[Latrinsorm]

This assumes you're still getting Guild Tackle.

If you're not getting Feint through the Guild (Warrior Tricks), get CMAN Feint or CMAN Dirtkick. Same goes for Berserk.

Max bonding.

Other cmans that are duplicated by guild skills are Disarm (Disarm), Spin Attack (Warrior Tricks), and Combat Mastery (Warrior Trick Stance Perfection), so if you train in those skills in the Guild don't get them through CM. You have Tackle, so getting another knockdown maneuver (like Bullrush or Trip) would be redundant (though I consider Bullrush to be better than Tackle in every way).

Other than that, stay away from cmovement (DS is pointless), toughness (unless your character is not in a society), crowd press (your character uses polearms), hamstring (I don't think you can even do that with polearms), multi-fire (obviously), either of the shield knockdowns or block mastery, and stunmaneuvers (berserk pwnz) and you'll be fine.

[Anebriated]

Im working on guild tackle and berserk, slowly. Tricks will follow.

Will probably pick up a couple ranks of disarm just to have and then probably feint.

[Stanley Burrell]

2) ???
3) Profit



No idea what this means.

http://ex-donkey.mu.nu/archives/Underpants_Gnomes.jpg

...Is all that you need to know.