Official: Enhancive Stacking Limits

[Fallen]

A simple post from GM Coase:

Enhancive Limits:

Base Stat: +40
Stat Bonus : +20
Skill Rank: +50
Skill Bonus: +50
Max Health/Mana/Stamina: +50
Max Spirit: +3
Health/Mana/Stamina Regen: +50
Spirit Regen: +3

Coase

[crazymage]

Guess that throws that person whos got a few spirit regen items for a loop

[AestheticDeath]

Can you get any of those amounts on one item? Or it would be several enhancers stacking?

[Fallen]

The highest I have heard on one item is a +25 to Stalking/Hiding Cloak.

[Latrinsorm]

Who could even make use of a +50 stamina regen item? Besides Nodyre, the Stamina Black Hole, I mean.

[Stanley Burrell]

Isn't maxed surged already +20 to any given strength bonus?

How would that work? (...or wouldn't it? [That would be particularly crappy.])

[StrayRogue]

Good to know. Thanks Fallen.

[Asha]

Who could even make use of a +50 stamina regen item? Besides Nodyre, the Stamina Black Hole, I mean.
Had my first evil chuckle of the day. Thanks.
Thanks for the info Fallen.

[Lucas]

So in effect, one can have +165 to AS continually running up with max enhancives?

Base Stat +40 str
Stat Bonus +20 str
Skill Bonus +50 Weapon
Skill Ranks +50 Weapon

Or is that only one of these can be applied at a single time?

[GS4-D]

What folder in the BBS was this posted? I can't find it in the AG one.

[Fallen]

It was in one of the Hunting and Combat folders, I think.

[Fallen]

It was actually in the General Discussions about Gemstone IV folder.

[OoK]

So in effect, one can have +165 to AS continually running up with max enhancives?

Base Stat +40 str
Stat Bonus +20 str
Skill Bonus +50 Weapon
Skill Ranks +50 Weapon

Or is that only one of these can be applied at a single time?

No, it doesn't work like that.

If you have surge, do CMAN SURGE and then INFO. CMAN Surge increases your strength bonus. For me it ups strength bonus by 11. When I type info I see 100 [40] and then with Surge it is 122 [51]. The enhancive system automatically gives me the raw stat increase that corresponds to the stat bonus increase.

Likewise with skills. If I have 0 ranks of edged weapons and have an item that gives +5 ranks, then it will go from 0 .. 0 to 5 .. 25. If I have 150 ranks of edged weapons and use that same item, it will go from 150 .. 250 to 155 .. 255.

If I have an item that adds to skill BONUS +5, it would go from 0 .. 0 to 1 .. 5, and also 150 .. 250 up to 155 .. 255.

How exactly a +20 Ranks item would work, I'm not really sure. Would it take it from 0 .. 0 up to 20 .. 90, or would it be 20 .. 50 (since max skill bonus increase from an enhancive is +50).

-OoK

[Lucas]

Quote:
So in effect, one can have +165 to AS continually running up with max enhancives?

Base Stat +40 str
Stat Bonus +20 str
Skill Bonus +50 Weapon
Skill Ranks +50 Weapon

Or is that only one of these can be applied at a single time?


No, it doesn't work like that.

If you have surge, do CMAN SURGE and then INFO. CMAN Surge increases your strength bonus. For me it ups strength bonus by 11. When I type info I see 100 [40] and then with Surge it is 122 [51]. The enhancive system automatically gives me the raw stat increase that corresponds to the stat bonus increase.

Likewise with skills. If I have 0 ranks of edged weapons and have an item that gives +5 ranks, then it will go from 0 .. 0 to 5 .. 25. If I have 150 ranks of edged weapons and use that same item, it will go from 150 .. 250 to 155 .. 255.

If I have an item that adds to skill BONUS +5, it would go from 0 .. 0 to 1 .. 5, and also 150 .. 250 up to 155 .. 255.

How exactly a +20 Ranks item would work, I'm not really sure. Would it take it from 0 .. 0 up to 20 .. 90, or would it be 20 .. 50 (since max skill bonus increase from an enhancive is +50).

-OoK

A simple post from GM Coase:

Enhancive Limits:

Base Stat: +40
Stat Bonus : +20
Skill Rank: +50
Skill Bonus: +50
Max Health/Mana/Stamina: +50
Max Spirit: +3
Health/Mana/Stamina Regen: +50
Spirit Regen: +3

Coase

Thus, a +50 to skill rank edged weapons will yield a +50 to AS, and +50 to skill bonus will yield a +50 to AS. This seems like what they are saying.

If I have an item that adds to skill BONUS +5, it would go from 0 .. 0 to 1 .. 5, and also 150 .. 250 up to 155 .. 255.

Exactly, and if this skill was edged weapons then it would be a +5 to AS. Thus, at max (+50) I would have a +50 to AS. Therefore, the theoretical maximum is +165 to AS if there is no cap to the number of enhancives a person can have at one time. (which I'm sure there is).

[StrayRogue]

Skill does not equal AS. Bonus equals AS.

[TheEschaton]

What Porcell is saying is that if you get an enhancive that adds +20 to your bonus, it'll automatically raise your actual stat by +40. And vice versa. Therefore, even if you have a +40 ST and a +20 ST Bonus enhancive, they'll do the same thing, and not stack on top of each other.

Porcell's query, though, is about what happens at lower skill ranks, before diminishing returns kicks in, where +20 ranks (from 0) = +90 skill. He's wondering whether, even though the +20 (from 0) extra ranks should be +90 to skill, whether or not the skill bonus will cap at +50.

I think it probably would.

-TheE-

[Stanley Burrell]

If you have surge, do CMAN SURGE and then INFO. CMAN Surge increases your strength bonus. For me it ups strength bonus by 11. When I type info I see 100 [40] and then with Surge it is 122 [51]. The enhancive system automatically gives me the raw stat increase that corresponds to the stat bonus increase.

With maxed Surge of Strength, I go from 100[40] STR to 140[60] STR, a clear bonus of +20 to my strength.

Do you/anyone know if Surge is less effective with seperate strength bonus enhancers?

Ty.

[Lucas]

That all still adds up to over +100 AS bonus (permanent) just need to know if there is a enhancement cap on skills and stats. I.E. If you're only allowed a total of +20 bonus to any and all skills and stats through enhancing items.

[GuildRat]

That all still adds up to over +100 AS bonus (permanent) just need to know if there is a enhancement cap on skills and stats. I.E. If you're only allowed a total of +20 bonus to any and all skills and stats through enhancing items.


I thought that all enhancives were capped at 50? ::scratches his head:: I could be wrong tho with the new "skill" enhancers and the stat enhancers working together.

Personally...with a "near permanent" +100 to AS...I'd be an open ambusher from hell with an AS of damned near 700 every swing....let me know the final answer!!!

[holocene]

assuming that CMAN SURGE does not count in the enhancive limits...otherwise what square would get enhancive for strength bonus?

likewise do the additional ranks for a STR stat enhancive (say +10 adding secondary +5 to STR ranks) count against ranks? i'd guess no...

all very curious, but seems to me the potential MAX is huge and that we have a new challenge before us...first one to have full STR stat and bonus enhancives.

[StrayRogue]

That all still adds up to over +100 AS bonus (permanent) just need to know if there is a enhancement cap on skills and stats. I.E. If you're only allowed a total of +20 bonus to any and all skills and stats through enhancing items.

SIgh

Read the first post of this thread.

[Lucas]

Right, exactly Stray. I'am reading the first post and from that I'm inferring a over +100 AS boost. (Add up all the "max" enhancements). Now I'm pretty sure there is only a certain amount of TOTAL stat or skill enhancement can get. I just don't know what this total is? Someone said +50? thats still +50 to AS permanent.

[Amber]

I'm so confused.

[TheEschaton]

Listen. You CANNOT have higher than a +40 to your stat. You CANNOT have more than +20 to your stat bonus.

Therefore, if you have two enhancives, one which is +40 to your stat, and one which is +20 to your stat BONUS, THEY DO NOT STACK. You will only end up with a +40 stat/+20 bonus. That's because they way they raise stat bonus is by raising the corresponding stat x 2, and when they raise a stat, it automatically raises the bonus.

So, yes, you could get a +50 to your weapon ranks (but then the +50 to your weapon skill is irrelevant, because the raising of your weapon ranks will raise your weapon bonus by +50 anyways), and you can get +40 to your strength, which is a +20 bonus (for your AS).

So, that's +70 to your AS on a pretty constant basis, til it wears out, IF you can find enhancives which'll boost them that high, which, frankly speaking, ain't fuckin' likely. Now, if you throw Surge on top of that, I don't think anything'll happen, because surge enhances your strength, but Coase stated that the limits are for all enhancive actions/items, so I imagine it doesn't stack on top of your Strength enhancives. Could be wrong about this though.

-TheE-

[StrayRogue]

Yes, surge should stack on top of it. And yes, the rest of your post is correct.

Aren't the adventurer guild badges "uncapped" when it comes to the bonus they give? Cadiva was saying last night that she was trying to get +40 to Agility.

[TheEschaton]

I believe you have to somehow "unlock" them (or maybe that's for the extra slots?) I thought I heard that one slot was capped at +20, but you could use two slots for the same spot.

That's all pure conjecture, though I suppose I could use my points to buy some enhancives...lemme check it out.

[TheEschaton]

Hmmmm, I have a little under 13k points, and was told he could boost any stat by 2 points, but I didn't have enough to enhance any skill ranks.

So maybe it's 5k per stat skill, 15k per rank? I'd have to have...205,000 before I could check to see if I could go beyond the set max of +40 to a stat.

-TheE-

[GS4-D]

I just checked what I'd be able to boost on my points, and it varries for each stat.

>ask hels for boost 1
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Strength by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 2
>
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Constitution by as much as 8 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 3
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Dexterity by as much as 8 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 4
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Agility by as much as 8 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 5
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Discipline by as much as 8 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 6
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Aura by as much as 5 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 7
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Logic by as much as 10 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 8
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Intuition by as much as 10 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 9
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Wisdom by as much as 6 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 10
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Influence by as much as 10 points in this state."

That's with 140k BPs.

[StrayRogue]

Hmmm, what profession are you?

[GS4-D]

Rogue profession.

[StrayRogue]

Curious. I'm presuming that your inf, wisdom, and int are your lowest stats?

[GS4-D]

Strength (STR): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Constitution (CON): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Agility (AGI): 100 (40) ... 100 (40)
Discipline (DIS): 100 (10) ... 100 (10)
Aura (AUR): 98 (29) ... 98 (29)
Logic (LOG): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Intuition (INT): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Influence (INF): 88 (29) ... 88 (29)

[StrayRogue]

Hmmm, even more curious. I would have assumed it would be more expensive to pump up a higher stat.

I guess not.

[TheEschaton]

What's your race? Mebbe it's racially based?

-TheE-

[GS4-D]

Elf.

[TheEschaton]

Very odd. Influence is a positive stat for elves, but wisdom/intuition are just regular old stats. And Dex and Agl are the bonus stats for rogue, eh?

-TheE-

[GS4-D]

Yes, the prime stats for rogue are AGI and DEX, and their mana stats are AUR and WIS.

[Fallen]

Why wouldn't you boost your Stat bonus instead? The boost to the stat bonus will then boost the stat itself in return.

[Back]

The real question is... whats the max AS in the game now?

[Lucas]

The real question is... whats the max AS in the game now?

Bingo. ....Personally still say around +100 to AS.

[Stanley Burrell]

Swinging-a-weapon-wise at a higher level:

+50 AS from 50 ranks in X weapon skill.
+20 from STR bonus.
+25 from 50 CM ranks.

That'd be a lot of work through the AG, though.

[AestheticDeath]

A wizard or empath/cleric could get a higher AS boost than that, by getting lore skills and what not. But I assume the overall AS would still be lower than a square.

Or not? Just recalled there might be a 3 item limit or some such...

[Celephais]

A wizard or empath/cleric could get a higher AS boost than that, by getting lore skills and what not. But I assume the overall AS would still be lower than a square.

Or not? Just recalled there might be a 3 item limit or some such...

The only Lore skill that ups your AS is earth for the bonus to Strength (Edit: and that's physical AS, nothing for Bolt) ... at least for wizards. But yes, DF can be increased a pretty crummy amount (comparitive to cost) if you wanted to waste it there.

[AestheticDeath]

Uh pretty sure bravery/heroism or something goes up dependant on lores.

Edit: Its just heroism for the 200's list. One AS for every ten ranks. So 5 at most.

[Celephais]

Personally I am curious as to how this will affect certain thought to be hard caps, like the nature resist armor cap. What with the possibility to have another 50 ranks, that makes for 95.5% resistance armor.

[Celephais]

I would also like to add that I am curious as to how the caps are measured. Could a wizard get 50 ranks for each elemental lore from an item? Or is it capped at 50 ranks of elemental lore? and if it is, how does it know *where* to cap (which leads me to believe they coded it as per skill, then comes all sorts of questions like will a 24 rank air lore item allow you to have tonis bolt and 1sec off RT)

[Boris]

Hmm, wonder if additional CM ranks through enhancives give extra CM points? It should.

[Lucas]

Forget about AS, I'm wondering how much higher my CS can go....I'd say that can jump to around 50 or so?

[Fallen]

Hmm, wonder if additional CM ranks through enhancives give extra CM points? It should. >>

They do not.

[StrayRogue]

Forget about AS, I'm wondering how much higher my CS can go....I'd say that can jump to around 50 or so?

Eh?

[Celephais]

Eh?

As usual Lucas is posting with no knowledge of the actual topic. He is assuming you can boost your spell ranks, which, you cannot (with the badge at least). There are enhancives that give you knowledge of a spell, but none to my knowledge give you actual spell ranks.

[StrayRogue]

Correct.

[Belnia]

But you can boost the stat or stat-bonus that applies to your profession's CS.

[Lucas]

<<But you can boost the stat or stat-bonus that applies to your profession's CS.>>

"Exactomundo"

-Pulp Fiction.

[Celephais]

Stat Bonus : +20



But you can boost the stat or stat-bonus that applies to your profession's CS.


Forget about AS, I'm wondering how much higher my CS can go....I'd say that can jump to around 50 or so?

It's clear you weren't thinking stat-bonus, you were thinking spell ranks. That or you're just F'n terrible at math.

[holocene]

Okay...big bump, following up on the badge comments. Human with 7 upgrades to materials...level 1 on all the other. Turns out all my ranks and bonus raisings are the same for everything I've checked (3 and 7, respectively):


>ask fal about boost 11
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Strength Bonus by as much as 3 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 1
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Strength by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 28
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Two Weapon Combat Ranks by as much as 3 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 74
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Two Weapon Combat Bonus by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 31
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Combat Maneuvers Ranks by as much as 3 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 77
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Combat Maneuvers Bonus by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 34
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Two-Handed Weapons Ranks by as much as 3 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 80
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Two-Handed Weapons Bonus by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 2
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Constitution by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 12
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Constitution Bonus by as much as 3 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 3
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Dexterity by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 13
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Dexterity Bonus by as much as 3 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 4
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Agility by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 14
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Agility Bonus by as much as 3 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 5
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Discipline by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 15
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Discipline Bonus by as much as 3 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 6
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Aura by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 16
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Aura Bonus by as much as 3 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 7
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Logic by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 17
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Logic Bonus by as much as 3 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 8
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Intuition by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 18
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Intuition Bonus by as much as 3 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 9
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Wisdom by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 19
>
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Wisdom Bonus by as much as 3 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 10
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Influence by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 10
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Influence by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask fal about boost 20
Falstronne takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Influence Bonus by as much as 3 points in this state."



I just checked what I'd be able to boost on my points, and it varries for each stat.

>ask hels for boost 1
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Strength by as much as 7 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 2
>
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Constitution by as much as 8 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 3
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Dexterity by as much as 8 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 4
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Agility by as much as 8 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 5
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Discipline by as much as 8 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 6
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Aura by as much as 5 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 7
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Logic by as much as 10 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 8
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Intuition by as much as 10 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 9
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Wisdom by as much as 6 points in this state."
>ask hels for boost 10
Helswrite takes your badge and peers at it through a large green crystal lens. He says, "I reckon it could enhance your Influence by as much as 10 points in this state."

That's with 140k BPs.

[Fallen]

I haven't been able to get ANYTHING in my badge since I upped spirit recovery. Once I can, I will post here what was required for the second enhancive.

[AestheticDeath]

So, aren't you supposed to be able to get more than one thing enhanced with a badge? How do you get the second and third without replacing the previous?

[Fallen]

You can, you just need to keep upgrading and more will eventually become available. You can receive up to 3 separate upgrades to your badge, but I am told the cost to recharge a badge with 3 enhancives, and how quick the charges run out makes it completely unviable.

[AestheticDeath]

nevermind i got it.. just seems odd you cant ask what it will enchance

just keep asking for stuff, and ask for something without a bonus and it says what it already enhances..

[AestheticDeath]

btw got it with +10 ranged bonus, and +5 dex bonus, was 26400 to charge it

[bluesmith]

I find the duration is pretty good. One charge has lasted two months, several hunts a day. I do take if off if I'm going to be in town for awhile.

[Khariz]

I find the duration is pretty good. One charge has lasted two months, several hunts a day. I do take if off if I'm going to be in town for awhile.

I take mine off too. Triples the duration versus wearing it for me.

[Fallen]

I really should start doing that, and likely will once I ever get that damned second level to my spirit regen. Closing in on 850k BPs and still can't afford it.

[AestheticDeath]

Are you saying you can get more than +1 SP regen from the one badge?

I tried getting +10 ranged, and +10 ranged but I couldn't get it to work.

[Fallen]

I cannot get it YET. It is possible to get +2 into your badge, but you need more than 800k BPs. I am guessing you need around 1 million.

[AestheticDeath]

Yeah you can get two things, but I didn't know you could get two of the same thing

If I had more points to waste I would try again

I tried asking him for 10 ranged twice but I don't think it actually added ranged twice, so I asked for dex bonus 5, and got that along with the 10 ranged.

[Fallen]

Spirit Regen differs in that rule, AS. You cannot normally double up on skills with your badge.