Ebon's Gate: Get your Golden Ticket.

[holocene]

Well, it could be fun the taffy way!

Dateline 8/14/2006: THE GREAT TAFFY HUNT

Ebon Gate: The Return of Velathae

The Merchant Consortium of Greater Elanith has been preparing this year's Ebon Gate event with extra secrecy involved. All that they will let slip is that the Ebon Gate celebration will not take place in the old location, but rather somewhere new.

This year's Ebon Gate comes in two package prices:

Option A - This ticket ($40) allows its holder into the brand new festival grounds and access to all the events, games, and the celebration.

Option B - This ticket ($100) will allow its holder all the above, plus admission into an auction for a guaranteed auction-quality item.

The Great Taffy Hunt

In an effort to get the word out about the upcoming Ebon Gate celebration, the Merchant Consortium has decided to have a Great Taffy Hunt. Hundreds, if not thousands, of wrapped taffy have been produced and will be scattered across all of Elanith between the 15th of Phoenatos (August 15th) and the 15th of Imaerasta (September 15th). Twenty-six (26) taffies will be extremely special as on the inside of their wrapper will either be an offer to reserve purchase of a full priced ticket, or an offer for FREE admission into the festival grounds and auction!

That's right, you heard correctly! So start searching, unwrapping and eating as much taffy as you can find! Maybe you will be one of the lucky twenty-six to gain entrance into this year's brand new Ebon Gate through the Great Taffy Hunt!

Rules:

You have one (1) week to write to the given e-mail address, from the time of opening the taffy, to state whether you wish to keep or return the winning taffy. If no contact has been made in that week's time, it will be assumed you do not have interest and it will be re-released.

The special reservation and free admission offer are not transferable between accounts, unless certified that you own the other account.

Tickets to Ebon Gate will go on sale September 15th.

Note: This offer is exclusively for the Prime instance of GemStone IV. Option B tickets will be the available in Platinum for $40 each.

Don't forget to get your Ebon Gate 2006 desktop wallpaper: http://www.play.net/feature/themes/

END NEWS ITEM

[Danical]

$100.00 for just an "auction-quality" item?

[TheEschaton]

Wait, since when is Ebon's Gate a pay event?

(I'm guessing in the last two years?)

-TheE-

[Sean of the Thread]

$100.00 for just an "auction-quality" item?

Fucking shit are you kidding me?

[Tolwynn]

People ponied up 75 bucks for an auction quality item at Foehn's Promise. Ebon Gate gives you an item, plus a full event (unlike FP) for 100 bucks. Did anyone not really see something like this coming?

[Things2Come]

I imagine it will be recycled junk from Foehn's Promise.

[Sean of the Thread]

Cept EG was always the poor mans event imo where you had a chance.

It's still overpriced.

[Danical]

Fucking shit are you kidding me?

I'm sorry, I meant that's money I'm not willing to spend.

I'm guessing I could probably make it back by selling the item for cash/coins but I really dislike the whole pay-for-event philosophy.

[Sean of the Thread]

I agree 100%.

[StrayRogue]

I've always had a blast at EG. *Shrug*

[Shari]

Let me see if I understand this.

You can win a taffy that might give you an option to either reserve a ticket....

Or go for free, yes?

[HarmNone]

Yes.

[Ilvane]

I always loved Ebon's gate. Now to figure out if I want to spend 100 bucks on it..hm.

The 40 bucks is reasonable, I don't know that I want to waste 100..but if there is good stuff..ugh..decisions, decisions.

Angela

[Kainen]

I'll pay the 40.. I love EG.

[thornhappy]

I've always had a ton of fun at EG. Will probably spring for the more expensive one and use some much-needed vacation time to veg out around the house and get my money's worth.

[mgoddess]

Wait, since when is Ebon's Gate a pay event?

Pretty much every EG prior to last year. It was free last year for some odd reason... (I had fun last year, for what it's worth.)

[TheEschaton]

Uhhh, I never remembered paying for EG. I only went once, but it was well before last year. Maybe 2001? 2000? It was before the banaltra thing, so it must of been 2001.

-TheE-

[Tea & Strumpets]

Simu is fucking shameless with the way they repeatedly screw their silly customers.

"We aren't making money, we just don't pay any of our staff (GM's), and this is the only way they get paid back!"

LOL, I seriously can't believe they get away with this shit.

[zhelas]

When EG first came out it was a paid event, if I remember correctly. I was shocked to discover that it was free over the last year or two. I felt that I got screwed during the Anfelt.

The $100 tickets will be sold. I am not sure if I will pay $40 or $100 to go to this one, even if it is my favorite event. You know there will be those with 6 to 8 accounts who will pony up for $100 tickets.

[Jenisi]

Found 3 taffy's so far... all losers!!

[Jolena]

Ebon's gate in the last almost six years that I've played has been free once, which was last year. Up until that freebie, the event was anywhere from 30-35 bucks a ticket. I'm with Xyelin on this one, its always been the 'poor man's' event and it saddens me to see it go this route. I've already said my peace about it on the officials though, and trust me, it didn't get received by players very well. Surprisingly enough, the GM's were very amicable about my post, but nothing will change.

That being said, I'll be paying the 40 bucks for the regular event.

[HarmNone]

As long as people are willing to pay, this will continue and prices will escalate. It seems that some are willing to pay these amounts for events and the chance at some unknown "auction quality" item. It's a matter of individual choice, I suppose. I wouldn't even pay $40.00 for it, but that's just me.

[Jolena]

Found 3 taffy's so far... all losers!!

Are they found on creatures? Or are they like real gems where they are just randomly placed in areas.

[Jenisi]

found all of them so far in boxes

[Skeeter]

If you win, do you get to ride to the event in a glass elevator?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Ebon's gate in the last almost six years that I've played has been free once, which was last year. Up until that freebie, the event was anywhere from 30-35 bucks a ticket. I'm with Xyelin on this one, its always been the 'poor man's' event and it saddens me to see it go this route. I've already said my peace about it on the officials though, and trust me, it didn't get received by players very well. Surprisingly enough, the GM's were very amicable about my post, but nothing will change.

That being said, I'll be paying the 40 bucks for the regular event.

I think a lot of GMs feel as you do, Jolena, it's just that they also want to be hopeful about things because they can't really change them.

[Augie]

The crazy thing is there was talk of 250 auction tickets. That's 25k that they're making just from auction ones. That's not counting how many tickets they're going to sell at 40 bucks a pop.

And they say they don't make enough money pffft.

[Numbers]

In a game where people routinely have multiple premium (and platinum) accounts, those $100 tickets will sell out almost instantly, regardless of how much of a waste of money it is.

The thing is, while it's definitely tempting to get an auction quality item, the standard for that type of item has drastically declined since GSIV. I'm willing to wager that most of them will be enhancive items, scripted items, or items with a loresong.

[Merzbow]

Having never been to one of these events, what makes it so worthwhile to pay $40 for? Merely for the chance to bid millions on some item against 100 capped characters who have billions in the bank? Count me out if so.

[Sean]

Having never been to one of these events, what makes it so worthwhile to pay $40 for? Merely for the chance to bid millions on some item against 100 capped characters who have billions in the bank? Count me out if so.

Sounds to me without doing any research that it's a token auction, and thats for the $100. For $40 you get to do some fun and games get some alters and buy some scripted crap.

[Merzbow]

Sounds to me without doing any research that it's a token auction, and thats for the $100. For $40 you get to do some fun and games get some alters and buy some scripted crap.

Does everyone get an alter or is that raffled off also?

[Augie]

Having never been to one of these events, what makes it so worthwhile to pay $40 for? Merely for the chance to bid millions on some item against 100 capped characters who have billions in the bank? Count me out if so.

EG will probably work like the Foehn's Promise where there's an auction room and token rooms. Not sure if they would do the loyalty one for Premie people anymore.

It's not all just going to be auctioned off at $100 bucks. Everyone who DOES buy an auction ticket is guaranteed an auction quality item.

What is considered auction quality? That is the real question.

[TheEschaton]

That is the real question. I heard bad, bad things about this last FP, but before that auction quality = whoa.

-TheE-

[Stanley Burrell]

Well, it could be fun the taffy way!

Dateline 8/14/2006: THE GREAT TAFFY HUNT

Ebon Gate: The Return of Velathae

The Merchant Consortium of Greater Elanith has been preparing this year's Ebon Gate event with extra secrecy involved. All that they will let slip is that the Ebon Gate celebration will not take place in the old location, but rather somewhere new.

This year's Ebon Gate comes in two package prices:

Option A - This ticket ($40) allows its holder into the brand new festival grounds and access to all the events, games, and the celebration.

Option B - This ticket ($100) will allow its holder all the above, plus admission into an auction for a guaranteed auction-quality item.

The Great Taffy Hunt

In an effort to get the word out about the upcoming Ebon Gate celebration, the Merchant Consortium has decided to have a Great Taffy Hunt. Hundreds, if not thousands, of wrapped taffy have been produced and will be scattered across all of Elanith between the 15th of Phoenatos (August 15th) and the 15th of Imaerasta (September 15th). Twenty-six (26) taffies will be extremely special as on the inside of their wrapper will either be an offer to reserve purchase of a full priced ticket, or an offer for FREE admission into the festival grounds and auction!

That's right, you heard correctly! So start searching, unwrapping and eating as much taffy as you can find! Maybe you will be one of the lucky twenty-six to gain entrance into this year's brand new Ebon Gate through the Great Taffy Hunt!

Rules:

You have one (1) week to write to the given e-mail address, from the time of opening the taffy, to state whether you wish to keep or return the winning taffy. If no contact has been made in that week's time, it will be assumed you do not have interest and it will be re-released.

The special reservation and free admission offer are not transferable between accounts, unless certified that you own the other account.

Tickets to Ebon Gate will go on sale September 15th.

Note: This offer is exclusively for the Prime instance of GemStone IV. Option B tickets will be the available in Platinum for $40 each.

Don't forget to get your Ebon Gate 2006 desktop wallpaper: http://www.play.net/feature/themes/

END NEWS ITEM

Sources tell me that non-Halfling Oompa Loompas will be the main attraction :smilegrin:

[Merzbow]

Option B - This ticket ($100) will allow its holder all the above, plus admission into an auction for a guaranteed auction-quality item.

This is ambiguous language to me - is this guaranteeing everyone with the ticket an auction-quality item, or only guaranteeing them admission to an auction for the item?

[Jolena]

it guarantees everyone who purchases an auction ticket an auction-quality item. This is just like the FP, where you got a token and were guaranteed an auction-quality item by the time you left. For your 100 dollars, you get admission into the grounds (just like those that pay 40 dollars) AND you get into the auction area, for a guaranteed item. What item that is, is entirely up to your finances in game, your luck at the time and what is left over if you have neither of the aforementioned.

[StrayRogue]

I imagine there'll be alterers and other merchants in the auction-only rooms as well.

[Jolena]

Most likely. James is going to go to the auction area of EG this year in Prime, but I'm still on the fence as to whether or not I'll do it. I'm definitely not going to change anyone in the upper management by not going to the auction, I realize, but for me its kind of a principle type of decision. I find it saddening that it went this route, so buying a ticket to it would be supporting it in my mind, which I'm not very sure I'm willing to do. We'll see.

[JohnDoe]

Too bad there aren't $60 tickets to attend the auction only. Or, $75 to attend the auction only, $40 to attend the event only, and $100 to attend both.

[vontez]

why does everyone complain still about pay-events? Simu is a business, and they have had stuff like this ever since the move to the web...this isn't anything new. Plus, the people who complain the loudest always seem to add "The last merchant sucked, but oh, yeah, and i'll be attending it, I GUESS" ::GRUMBLE!:: If noone went, Simu would probably cut down on the prices, or perhaps stop the pay for all together. Besides, people do runs all the time, and you can get anything you want in the merchant after a quick look at the list that eventually appears on Nilandia.com.

[Augie]

Crappy and not so crappy part about this year is that the event grounds are new. Crappy because I have to remap it. Not so crappy because they're new.

I'm going to the auction either way, only because I had fun on the Foehn's Promise and I want to see what stuff they have here. Plus, this is my only hobby so I might as well sink some extra money into havin fun.

[Jenisi]

Found like 15 losers arrrrrgh. But I am looking forward to the festival, this was a neat way to get people excited.

[Kembal]

Besides, people do runs all the time, and you can get anything you want in the merchant after a quick look at the list that eventually appears on Nilandia.com.

For which everyone who uses that should be deeply thankful for. Gretchen puts a lot of effort into that.

As for EG and the auction, I love my FP item (Cone of Lightning rod), but I'm not sure I want to shell out that kind of cash again. Plus, I might be sent to China part of that week to finish out training, and that'd just make the whole thing moot.

[zhelas]

www.nilandia.com :up:

[Skirmisher]

why does everyone complain still about pay-events? Simu is a business, and they have had stuff like this ever since the move to the web...this isn't anything new. Plus, the people who complain the loudest always seem to add "The last merchant sucked, but oh, yeah, and i'll be attending it, I GUESS" ::GRUMBLE!:: If noone went, Simu would probably cut down on the prices, or perhaps stop the pay for all together. Besides, people do runs all the time, and you can get anything you want in the merchant after a quick look at the list that eventually appears on Nilandia.com.


Sometimes people complain because the situation calls for it.

Ebons gate has been one of the more enjoyable events for my characters in the past but with the addition of this auction and the eventual price I would not go and I in fact did go to the last Promise having gone to the one before that and saw all the neat items being won.

The last Promise was awful in my opinion. Crappy items, with some exceptions of course. Unless you had incredible amounts of time or were multi-accounting as so very many were it was mediocre.

They would have to prove themselves before i would spend that kind of money on a pay event again.

[Stealth]

The crazy thing is there was talk of 250 auction tickets. That's 25k that they're making just from auction ones. That's not counting how many tickets they're going to sell at 40 bucks a pop.

And they say they don't make enough money pffft.


I have a few questions for the people who ask these questions and make these sorts of comments.

...Have you ever run your own business?

Do you have any clue how many expenses there are besides the obvious ones?

Do you realize what the WTC attack, gas prices and the damage from the hurricanes has done to prices, insurance in particular? (My business which suffered NO damage our insurance rates have gone up about 600...yes SIX HUNDRED percent since 9-11-2001) I am just speaking of insurance on the building, our liability has also skyrocketed (with no claims).

Before you go tossing stones at ANY business and their prices, I would encourage you to arm yourself with the facts and figures first. Many businesses which seem to make money hand over fist, have crazy behind the scenes expenditures.

So...off my soapbox.


Stealth

[Some Rogue]

...have crazy behind the scenes expenditures.


Stealth

Read: Hero's Journey

[Stealth]

Read: Hero's Journey


I wasn't even refering to HJ. I was more refering to my business which was a very popular and busy bar and liquor store. Money flying, people drinking having great times. On the surface it looks like you should be makin money like a madman. The problem is that people don't see the behind the scenes expenses...for example:


Someone flushes their shitty underwear down the toilet (really happened, twice to us)...equals pretty much instant 1000-2000 dollar damage to your plumbing pumps.

Workman's Comp Insurance, often overlooked to the public, huge drain to some business. Same for unemployment.

Bar and Liquor surcharge taxes. Payroll taxes. Healthcare premiums. Property taxes. Income taxes. Capital gains taxes. Sales taxes.

Bouncers---60-100 dollars per bouncer per night. We usually had 3-4.

Uniformed police officers -- 35 bucks or more PER HOUR.

I realize some of these have nothing to do with Simutronics, but some do and I am sure Simutronics has many that we were not hit with.

As I said, until you actually KNOW, try not to judge.


Stealth

[HarmNone]

I agree, Stealth, in principle. The only thing players can do is to decide whether or not it's worth it to them to pay these prices. As long as people will pay, the pay events will continue and prices will continue to rise as expenses rise. That's a fact of doing business, and nothing to knock Simu for, in my opinion. The decision on whether to pay or not lies, ultimately, with the player.

[Bombadil]

This particular auction will rock hard. The items will be uber. I can pretty much see this happening. Why? Simu is a business, if the auction items suck good luck on next years Ebon Gate, there will be like 2 attending the auction.

[Stealth]

Totally agreed Harmnone. I was making no comments about the value to the purchaser. We had some brandy we used to sell in our bar that went for about 350 dollars per shot. Was that a legit price? You bet, we sold it basically at cost. Was it worth it? Certainly not to me. I will stick with my 15-25 dollars for a whole bottle liquor when I drink.


I have no gripes with the folks who complain that it is too expensive or not worth it TO THEM. What sets me off is people who complain about any business or suchnot without having any clue what the expenses are behind it.

I ride around now and I see businesses and I ask myself "How the fuck do they stay open?" most of the time. I have had my eyes opened to all of the behind the scenes expenses.

The answer to that question is generally that the owner/family works full time and doesn't pay themselves a real wage or worse they work another job and funnel cash into it. This is the classic first big mistake most small businesses make. It's ok to do this in the beginning, but you have to make a living, otherwise you will sell the business and get out and go out of business.


Stealth

[TheEschaton]

The problem with these auctions is that I don't have enough money to put in a serious bid on ANYTHING. Argh.

-TheE-

[Asha]

And items/padding which run out of charges.
Keep your auctions.

[Some Rogue]

Believe me, I understand the behind the scenes costs of businesses. I work for a company that owns 13 convenience stores. More often than not, we're losing money on the gas we sell, yet we're the bad guy to the average consumer.

However, I think alot of people on this board have been around long enough to know how Simu works, have seen their offices, seen their pay scale for employees and seen their hardware set up. We're also smart enough to realize the cost and frequency of pay events has gone up as the work on Hero's Journey increased.

[FinisWolf]

Some one needs to go read the FP boards where it was stated that left over items from that event will be released at a later time. What the FP had was in fact the uber items. Also as pointed out many times on those boards property is going to be re and re-released back into the game.

So if you didn't think the items off the FP were all that, then I would not suggest the $100.00 ticket. I know that if I can come up with the $200.00 both myself and my fiance'e will be going to the $100.00 event.

Alters and services rarely interest me anymore, but unique items definetly do.

Finis

[TheEschaton]

I'll wait for an auction list before I determine if I'm going...


-TheE-

[Shari]

Yeah, auction list would definitely entice me. You don't have to pay in-game silvers for these items, right? I would assume one would have a token for you to kinda lottery the item, yes?

I would hate to spend 100 bucks at the CHANCE of having to spend in-game money (which I have very little of) for a semi-unique item.

[Stanley Burrell]

Yeah, auction list would definitely entice me. You don't have to pay in-game silvers for these items, right? I would assume one would have a token for you to kinda lottery the item, yes?

I would hate to spend 100 bucks at the CHANCE of having to spend in-game money (which I have very little of) for a semi-unique item.

Even so, individuals that MA (and absolutely will MA 3+ accounts) for this particular auction will still have a pretty unbalanced upper hand on the situation, I would imagine.

[StrayRogue]

When do MAers ever not have the upper hand in GS?

[Shari]

I'm not looking to get an auction-quality item for profit. I want to for once...for the first time EVER in this game have some special, rediculous doo-dad for me to enjoy.

I would kill for one of those silly fireball rings, and they don't do jack shit other than look spiffy.

[StrayRogue]

What is stopping you saving up and buying one?

[Rainy Day]

If noone went, Simu would probably cut down on the prices, or perhaps stop the pay for all together.

If no one went the monthly price to play the game would be higher. You can bet that their business plan factors in the funds raised at the pay events as part of their annual operating budget. It's not like straight extra profit.

Though as others mentioned, it's been proven that people will pay no matter what the price. I'm still staggered by the prices of the upper tier WD tickets. Not only that, but people would have paid that much to go on more than one run! That's crazy talk to me.

I like the festivals and always go when I can. Never been able to afford the expensive ticket auction type ones though. Oh well. I still like seeing the neat stuff that comes from them.

RD

[Amaron]

Many of the items on the FP were not auction quality.

Come on... Armor with heavy padding... ok.. Armor with TEMP heavy padding.. ick

Oh you can have it re-charged.. umm ok.. where.. when a merchant comes about.

umm ok when would that be... usually at a pay event.. and MAYBE if you get chosen out of the 100 other people in the room.

::stares::

Any item with TEMP anything sucks unless it can be easily recharged or the item has some permenant ability as well.

very heavy weighted sword with a few stat enhansives ok thats cool.

I was lucky and got a good set of shell armor I will be using as soon as I have the premie points to pad it to heavy and its almost enchanted to 7x

That was auction quality to me anyway and I was glad I could use it.

J

[Amaron]

ok somehow it double posted.. sorry

[Asha]

Agree with everything Amaron said.
Maybe the list will inspire me to go ticket B, but I'm expecting to see lots of temp this and that items that could have been awesome.

[Latrinsorm]

Heavy padding isn't really all that great. I'd be upset if that's all I got for 100 simoleans even if it was permanent.

[Shari]

What is stopping you saving up and buying one?


How much are those fireball rings selling for?

[FinisWolf]

Heavy padding isn't really all that great. I'd be upset if that's all I got for 100 simoleans even if it was permanent.

I like your way of thinking. I too would rather pay 50M to 80M silver ($750.00 to $1200.00) then pay the $100.00 ticket price to be able to have the opportunity to get something that is HCP.

/sarcasm

Finis

[FinisWolf]

The problem with these auctions is that I don't have enough money to put in a serious bid on ANYTHING. Argh.

-TheE-

It does not take alot of silver to win. There were folks winning with bids under 1M ... I won my item for my opening bid (that I probably went to high on (but I REALLY REALLY wanted it) ).

Are there items that start at 100M? Sure. Are there items that don't get bids? Sure.

Alot of folks got upset at the FP, but in my opinion it was their own fault for not researching. I did my research, and I came out happy. On the other hand others did not and got some real crappy items. Do your research (most is done by others, just read what they have figured out).

Personally, I am not trying to get anyone to go. If you don't it will make it easier for me (IF I get to go) to get what I want. So don't go. Or do. If you do your homework, you will greatly increase your odds of being happy with what you get.

Best Regards,

Finis

[FinisWolf]

Yeah, auction list would definitely entice me. You don't have to pay in-game silvers for these items, right? I would assume one would have a token for you to kinda lottery the item, yes?

I would hate to spend 100 bucks at the CHANCE of having to spend in-game money (which I have very little of) for a semi-unique item.

Hopefully they will have two rooms, an auction room, and a token room. Removing the premie room. Thus making it possible for everyone to have an opportunity to get something nice.

Finis

[FinisWolf]

I'm not looking to get an auction-quality item for profit. I want to for once...for the first time EVER in this game have some special, rediculous doo-dad for me to enjoy.

I would kill for one of those silly fireball rings, and they don't do jack shit other than look spiffy.

If those rings sell for more then 5M ($75.00, the price of the ticket to go), then they are overpriced in my opinion, hell over a million for it is overpriced in my opinion.

Finis

[Latrinsorm]

I certainly wouldn't pay 50m for a heavily padded item. Talk about gouging.

I like how you say "do your research" (implying that anybody who wasn't happy with the FP didn't, but that's another story) directly after the post where you consider 50m a fair price for a largely inconsequential item property, btw.

[Shari]

Yeah, I agree. Its like those scripted eye gem thingies. Very cool, and pretty...but it really doesn't do a damned thing besides look neat.

What am I saving my silvers for? Fuck if I know. I got about 5M in the bank and I'm not about to blow it on fluff.

[FinisWolf]

I certainly wouldn't pay 50m for a heavily padded item. Talk about gouging.

I like how you say "do your research" (implying that anybody who wasn't happy with the FP didn't, but that's another story) directly after the post where you consider 50m a fair price for a largely inconsequential item property, btw.

You go get HCP armor for less then 50M, thats 7X or higher. Hell, my 8X HCP doubles are worth a good 45 to 55M, 7X HCP doubles are between 35M and 40M.

And by the way, they did have items as high as 7X on the FP, or was it 6X. Still going to be a pricey item.

So I was a smidge too high, but not a helluv-a-lot.

Finis

[Latrinsorm]

I don't really care what the player-market-determined "worth" of an item is. I know that heavy crit padding's mechanical benefits are in fact worth neither 50 million silver nor $100.

[Boris]

My 4x HCP plate has lessened my deaths by at least 50-75%. HCP armor is worth it.

[Danical]

My 4x HCP plate has lessened my deaths by at least 50-75%. HCP armor is worth it.

I am nearly certain the above statement is false.

I had 8x Exceptionally Crit Padded plate and I didn't see much of a difference when going back to 4x after I sold.

[Ignot]

If everyone got together and refused to go to the pay events then they would have to either stop having them or make them free!

I will start contributing to the cause and not attend as i usually do.

[FinisWolf]

If everyone got together and refused to go to the pay events then they would have to either stop having them or make them free!

I will start contributing to the cause and not attend as i usually do.

Of course along this line, you would also see GS be no more. Or monthly subscription prices jump as someone else already stated, which would have you see GS be no more.

Finis

[FinisWolf]

I know that heavy crit padding's mechanical benefits are in fact worth neither 50 million silver nor $100.

TRY ...

I repeat, TRY and prove this with math. You will NOT be able to.

Finis

[Danical]

What are you even talking about?

It wouldn't be difficult at all.

It would only take methodological rigor which Poopypants (re: latrinsorm) has in heaps and mounds, and of course time.

[Stanley Burrell]

All weighting and padding has become infinitely more temporary since the GS3 days/I agree with Latrinsorm.

[StrayRogue]

Padding all depends on where you hunt and what sort of armor it's on.

It's not really going to help you up until level 60's. After that, when you no longer can really avoid cheap maneuvers, it's a godsend.

[Ardwen]

Before 4 particular items were massively sold off the shelf, heavy padded and weighted items were exceptionally rare, which is why they were auction type items. Since they same general standards were used for the promise auction/raffles similar items got released. And yes there were indeed lemons, every auction has had them. With scripted items becoming common merchant fare, in general, we no longer consider them auction level.

Won the item type I was after at the promise, paid far less then I valued it at, oddly enough it was that 50 million people keep mentioning, it of course wasnt heavy padded armor. It however offers me no ingame advantages at all, unless saying I own a cave is somehow an advantage.

Best bet is do your homework, the people that went into the auction well informed did not wind up with the lemons. At least now the auctioneers arent glorifying and even outright lying about how good items are like they did in the past.


Ardwen

[Artha]

I repeat, TRY and prove this with math. You will NOT be able to.
This really wouldn't be that hard, especially for the guy that's willing to sit down and plot out logarithmic regression on redux points.

[Asha]

If no-one went to pay events..

Of course along this line, you would also see GS be no more. Or monthly subscription prices jump as someone else already stated, which would have you see GS be no more.

Finis
This is an exaggeration.
Although I'm sure you could instert a standard HJ fund conspiracy to big up your point.
GS won't suddenly die becouse the player base call bullshit on overpricing their events.

[Boris]

I am nearly certain the above statement is false.

I had 8x Exceptionally Crit Padded plate and I didn't see much of a difference when going back to 4x after I sold.

You're saying you saw NO difference between an 8x Exceptionally Crit Padded Plate versus 4x normal plate? Are you sure? Latrinstrom is this possible?

[Jenisi]

Anyone find a winner yet?

[TheEschaton]

There was a post by a GM on the boards last night that said 3 of the 26 had gone out, but only 1 knew about it for sure (IE, the other two may not yet have opened the box the taffy is in).

-TheE-

[FinisWolf]

If no-one went to pay events..

This is an exaggeration.
Although I'm sure you could instert a standard HJ fund conspiracy to big up your point.
GS won't suddenly die becouse the player base call bullshit on overpricing their events.

I won't do the HJ conspiracy theory. I don't believe it myself. Are they using funds from other SIMU products to fund it? Sure. :shrug:

However, we have seen a depletion of our player base in just the (going on) six years I have been playing, and a large number left after the price hike, and then again (almost simultaneously) when GS4 was released.

So for me to say that IF they hiked subscription prices more to make up for a loss from no one attending events (NOT that this will happen, for the most part we all enjoy our events), then yes we would again see a depletion in our player base (a player base that is rather small already) [on a side note, I already had a GM convince tell me my subscription does not matter, and I dropped form 4 premie accounts to one standard account. Great customer service there, and probably not the outcome the GM wanted, or maybe he/she doesn't care, but it was the end result.].

Your argument also holds true, it is an exaggeration; however, with not many text based players left in our graphical world, it won't take alot to completely deplete the player base.

Finis

[Mack]

I've got a golden ticket. I've got a golden ticket, I've got a golden feeling in my heart.

[FinisWolf]

This really wouldn't be that hard, especially for the guy that's willing to sit down and plot out logarithmic regression on redux points.

Then the man should back it up with math for us. I know that it saves my ass time and again, and again, and again. I know if he could prove it that I may quickly have some high end armors up for sale.

What blew me away was the difference between HCP Haub, and HCP doubles. It's HUGE! Lucky me, I had Hakonne explain my oversight in the difference, which makes sense to me ... now. :-)

I know I would still like to see the math that backs it up. Cause what I see almost daily is HCP saving my ass, where before I would surely be dead.

BTW, I was not saying he could NOT do the math, only that he could not prove his statement mathematically (unless he used statistics, which as most of us know can be turned anyway we want it).

:shrug:

[Stunseed]

I won't do math, but I'll toss out a generalized idea.

Each armor group has a crit divisor. Crit padding is a further divisor, based on the level of padding. Heavy crit padding depending on randomization can go about half of a single number.

For instance, Stunseed gets murderized by Bisco, who swings a morning star at 600 some-odd. The endroll is 250, for the sake of simple, so the DF is calculated 250-100 = 150 x .300, which equals 45 raw damage.

45 divided by the crit divisor of the armor group ( 9 in this instance, since Stun is in chain ), is a crit rank of 5, within half. So before the crit padding of Stunseed's armor is added, the crit rank is 2.5 ( half ) to 5 ( full ). Heavy crit padding loosely < this is where Latrinsorm can prove/disprove using real math > half a crit rank. For the sake of simple, Bisco's morning star like his sex drive lacks strength, and only does half of the crit rank of 2.5, which rounds up to a crit rank of 3. Stunseed's crit padding is now applied, which reduces the critical ranking from .1 to .5 or so. Let's say Stun's armor hasn't been polished and doesn't do much, only reducing it by .1, ( fun fun ). The end result is a 2.4 critical rank, which is rounded down to a 2 critical rank.

The difference is such. With crit padding, Stunseed's hit looks like...

Blow leaves an imprint on Stunseed's chest! ( Minor )

Without, it could do...

Mighty blow cracks several ribs.
Blow to chest causes Stunseed's heart to skip a beat. ( Bleeder )
Whoosh! Several ribs driven into lungs. ( Stun & Bleeder )

That should suffice until real math is done. Any and all of this is not written in stone, only meant to give scope on what heavy crit padding can/can't do.

[FinisWolf]

Thanks Stun!

I don't know, but it seems this generalized ideas gives a ton of merit to the idea of owning crit padded armor.

Finis

[Fallen]

Here is some info on EG from Ozias:

I love the challenge of small races. And regarding balance: Warden worked very hard to make sure that all of the new races had some counterbalancing forces. Gnomes are relatively weak (but not as weak as halflings USED to be in GS3), but have a very robust set of compensating factors. There are no plans to change the racial makeup of any races.

Oh, and in other gnome news: it looks like the first-ever gnome compound will be released to GS4 as a quest/game area in the new Ebon Gate. An Aledotter compound...lots of fun designing it!

~Ozias

----

Burghal gnomes live in compounds too, but underground beneath the cities of other races (usually humans and elves). Aledotters are a little different, because they spend much of their lives travelling and trading. Their compounds tend to be outside dwarven diggings, but sometimes--if the right situation offers--they might be elsewhere in the world. They prefer natural caves converted to their own uses. Some features of an Aledotter compound include: a kind of swap meet type area, where gnomes leave things they don't need and take what they do...and a museum featuring the neatest things they've "found" or traded for while they're on the road.

On the question of documents: I have one document fully outlined, but this SGM gig doesn't leave me a lot of time for writing (especially in a season where I leave my job, move, fix up a new house, train a puppy, care for a pregnant wife, etc. etc.). I'm hoping to get some scribbling done once EG finishes up and I'm settled into my new teaching gig.

~Ozias

[Danical]

You're saying you saw NO difference between an 8x Exceptionally Crit Padded Plate versus 4x normal plate? Are you sure? Latrinstrom is this possible?

What in the hellballs are you talking about? At no point did I say anything like NO difference. I said didn't see much.

However, if you're getting your mileage from crit padding via AS/DS rolls you're really fucking up somehow. Cheap ass maneuvers should be the only thing you need crit padding for. That being said, Crystal Weaponry and Stone Fist still pwnzinated me just as easily with 8x ECP plate. It definitely wasn't worth the 100+m the item sold for.

[Fallen]

Those extra enchantments will save your ass from Ithzir weaponry faster than the padding will. Still, all that extra padding is of use against ambushes by other players, Cheatme maneuvers, ect.

[Amber]

I've got a golden ticket. I've got a golden ticket, I've got a golden feeling in my heart.

Congratulations!

[GuildRat]

I'll be shelling out 200 bigguns for me and my baby to attend the auction. That's just me tho. I figure I'll get that back eventually either selling gear or silvers. But that's just me.

[Danical]

you sure it's just you?

[GuildRat]

you sure it's just you?

Coulda been an impersonator, I tend to get gabby when I drink. But, that's just me ::wink::

[Latrinsorm]

TRY ...

I repeat, TRY and prove this with math. You will NOT be able to.Sure I can. 0 * 10 / 10 = 0, where 10 is how much crit padding heavy is, the second 10 is about how many times my character gets hit in a hunt (being generous), 0 is the amount of times he gets hit for a rank 2 or higher crit, and = 0 is the bonus crit padding gives me per hit in a particular hunt. I don't think I need to explain to you that 0 benefit isn't worth any money, let alone x million silvers. Note that this is in terms of phantom damage in terms of crit calculation, not crit rank.

Even once we get to rank 2 crits, at best the padding can only reduce that to a rank 1 max (and it won't even do that roughly half the time because of padding randomization), which even then will only be of benefit half the time (because a rank 2 crit will be randomized down to a rank 1 crit half the time anyway). In sum, only 1 in 4 of the rank 2 crits that my character never gets hit with will be reduced by the padding compared to the unpadded state. Even then, rank 2 crits almost never do a rank 2 wound (eyes being the exception), so the only thing I'm being saved from is a rare knockdown (rank 2 puncture to leg) or a little more crit damage.

This assumes the character has no natural (constitution-based) crit padding, which most squares have (and quite a bit of it). The only time crit padding can be rationally recommended is when the character is subjected to the aforementioned "cheap" maneuvers, because while no evidence has been put forward showing that padding helps, neither has evidence been put forward showing that it doesn't. "It doesn't necessarily not help" isn't worth 100 million silvers to me.
What blew me away was the difference between HCP Haub, and HCP doubles.Chain armor will certainly be better than soft leather.
Cause what I see almost daily is HCP saving my assI doubt very much you back out the pre-randomization crit rank of every hit your character is subjected to (mostly because you'd have to have established the crit weighting values of the creatures you hunt), and you definitely can't say anything for sure about maneuvers, so what you actually "see" is a hit that isn't as severe as you figure it should be, so you chalk it up to your character's armor. This doesn't actually mean padding is saving you, it just means you're viewing the information with a certain predisposition.
Latrinstrom is this possible?Not only is it possible, it's almost a certainty for a heavy square. Another thing to remember is crit padding has less of an effect on heavy armors even once one gets to the point where it can have any effect at all, so that makes it even harder for crit padding to do anything, as I spoke about above.

[StJimmy]

>op taff
You unwrap the piece of taffy, being careful not to tear into the waxy paper, and give its wrapper a quick glance.

On the inside of the wrapper, the stylized ebon gate is repeated. Flowing gold script below reads as follows:

Congratulations! By finding this piece of taffy, you are eligible to purchase a ticket for the upcoming Ebon Gate event, including the auction where you are guaranteed an auction-quality item!

The ticket will cost $100 and will be charged to the billing method listed upon the account at the time purchase request is made for the ticket. This ticket is non-transferable to other parties (but can be transferred to another account under your name).

To claim the ticket, you will need to write to quests@simutronics.com (E-mail Subject: Ebon Gate Taffy Offer) with the following information:

Account Name:

Account Security Question Answer:

Character Name who opened the taffy:

Character Name who is attending Ebon Gate:

Character Profession:

(Optional) Character level:

If you wish to relinquish your opportunity to purchase a full ticket to Ebon Gate 2006, write to quests@simutronics.com so it can be re-released.

(Feel free to eat the taffy if you wish.)

[Shari]

Congrats.

I know its not a free ticket, but at least its a chance at a space.

[Drew]

At least now the auctioneers arent glorifying and even outright lying about how good items are like they did in the past.



No they did this at FP too, I got suckered, my own fault, but they still talked up items that weren't anything to make it seem like they had secret powers.

[Ignot]

Wait, so you dont get a free ticket? You gotta pay $100? Am I reading that right or am I a retard?

[TheEschaton]

there are some which are free tickets, but some only reserve you the right to buy a ticket, like this one

-TheE-

[Ignot]

Are there limited tickets or something? can't i just go out and buy one from simu?

[TheEschaton]

there are limited tickets for the auction, I believe.

-TheE-

[Ignot]

Gotcha.

[Rainy Day]

Of course along this line, you would also see GS be no more. Or monthly subscription prices jump as someone else already stated, which would have you see GS be no more.

Finis

Which is one of the reasons I like the ticketed events. I'd rather pay less every month and then choose if I could afford to go to each ticketed event, rather than being forced to pay more every month just to play. Same thing with premium. Premium accounts help pay for basic accounts. If there wasn't premium, we'd all have to pay more. I like having a choice based on how much I can personally afford or am willing to pay.

RD

[Skeeter]

wow, they've got you reeled in hook line & sinker.

No way Simu can justify the prices they charge, considering they have minimal staffing costs, and generally little overhead.

Prices will go up again before too long, and there will still be ticketed merchants milking you for every penny they can.

simu is on a straight money grab, just hoping people don't realize there are better games around that cost 1/2 as much.

[grenthor]

just hoping people don't realize there are better games around that cost 1/2 as much.

In your opinion maybe there are.

In my opinion, no there isn't anything nearly as good.

[Tea & Strumpets]

wow, they've got you reeled in hook line & sinker.

No way Simu can justify the prices they charge, considering they have minimal staffing costs, and generally little overhead.

Prices will go up again before too long, and there will still be ticketed merchants milking you for every penny they can.

simu is on a straight money grab, just hoping people don't realize there are better games around that cost 1/2 as much.


So true. I still can't believe that they respond to complaints about pay events with "We have to charge money for events, it's the only way our GM's get paid".

WTF is my subscription fee for then?

[Stunseed]

No they did this at FP too, I got suckered, my own fault, but they still talked up items that weren't anything to make it seem like they had secret powers.

Rofl @ the flea cloak.

[Drew]

Rofl @ the flea cloak.



Yes, I too laugh at that. ha ha.

[Merzbow]

wow, they've got you reeled in hook line & sinker.

No way Simu can justify the prices they charge, considering they have minimal staffing costs, and generally little overhead.

Prices will go up again before too long, and there will still be ticketed merchants milking you for every penny they can.

simu is on a straight money grab, just hoping people don't realize there are better games around that cost 1/2 as much.

You've got a lot of posts on a message board about a game you think sucks.

[Skeeter]

I don't think it completely sucks. price and time between levels are definate issues though.

[Merzbow]

Those are its two best features, keeps out the 14-year old 'leet crowd (well, mostly).

[TheEschaton]

I think the reason many non-players still hang around here is the same reason I still have my AOL account. Spent so much money, invested so much time (in my case, pay-by-the-hour in Federation on AOL) you're reluctant just to throw it away completely and say it meant nothing. Like many relationships.

-TheE-

[FinisWolf]

...hoping people don't realize there are better games around that cost 1/2 as much.

I have yet to find a game that is as good, or better then GS, even SIMU's other products suck in comparison in my opinion.

Finis

[FinisWolf]

Originally Posted by Drew http://forum.gsplayers.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?p=506165#post506165)
No they did this at FP too, I got suckered, my own fault, but they still talked up items that weren't anything to make it seem like they had secret powers.

Rofl @ the flea cloak.

You didn't get suckered Drew, you just didn't research. It definitely was a one of a kind ... not that I would want a refurbished spider cloak that now holds fleas. LOL

Finis

[TheEschaton]

Where were all you people able to do this "research"? You mean, posting on the boards, prior to the auction?

I'd like to attend, but wouldn't want to be screwed. ;)

-TheE-

[FinisWolf]

Those are its two best features, keeps out the 14-year old 'leet crowd (well, mostly).

I agree for a different reason, I like the time investment. How many times throughout your gaming history have you bought a brand new game, and beat it in less then a week, only leaving you with the desire to go buy that next game?

Finis

[FinisWolf]

Where were all you people able to do this "research"? You mean, posting on the boards, prior to the auction?

I'd like to attend, but wouldn't want to be screwed. ;)

-TheE-

I did my research based off the list they provided, and the Plat list, did comparisons, read all about the items properties etc, and picked what items I was actually interested in. One of the main items I wanted, had an opening bid of 100M, so that one was out, but I did find other items, and when the item I wanted came up, I figured what the most the item was worth to me, subtracted my $75.00 ticket fee which left me my bid of 5M.

You will be able to research E, just read all you can as it comes.

Finis

[TheEschaton]

So, if you're in Plat, you're screwed? ;) You just have to guess?

-TheE-

[FinisWolf]

Perhaps, BUT, even in Plat, some of the properties of the items are already listed and guessed at around the web, because of items being turned in, and items not getting released at the FP.

I would talk to Gretchen, look at her site, and there are some other sites out there that you could ask for that have properties listed. At least then you would be as well informed as you can possibly be. Which is a helluva lot better then say running into what I like to call "The Drew Syndrome". LOL

Finis

[Drew]

I would talk to Gretchen, look at her site, and there are some other sites out there that you could ask for that have properties listed. At least then you would be as well informed as you can possibly be. Which is a helluva lot better then say running into what I like to call "The Drew Syndrome". LOL


The website didn't have the property of that paticular item listed and everything I wanted was in the premie room that I couldn't access, so I thought I'd take a gamble seeing as how some interesting powers were alluded too. Way to be a dick for no reason though.

[Nilandia]

I would talk to Gretchen, look at her site, and there are some other sites out there that you could ask for that have properties listed.
Not a bad idea, except I'd advise against IM'ing me for every little bit of info. I put up what information I have on the website, and if people IM me to ask me about every little thing, I'll have no time left to work on the actual list.

Amusingly enough, even asking me to keep an eye out for certain items doesn't work. When I'm working on the list, I do not see the items that I'm working on, unless it's something exceptional like an item with a show. It's just data processing to me. I have to go through it again myself when I make up my own shopping list.

Gretchen

[FinisWolf]

The website didn't have the property of that paticular item listed and everything I wanted was in the premie room that I couldn't access, so I thought I'd take a gamble seeing as how some interesting powers were alluded too. Way to be a dick for no reason though.

Ahh, come on Drew. I thought that was rather imaginative. Just poking fun. :shrug:

Finis

[Elvenlady]

If you wish to relinquish your opportunity to purchase a full ticket to Ebon Gate 2006, write to quests@simutronics.com so it can be re-released.

So does that mean I can't hand a winning ticket (should I ever happen across one) to someone else to use because I'll be damned if I'm paying $100 to watch the usual MA's with their ridiculous bank accounts bag all the good stuff again, like I did on the Foehn.

I would much rather be able to give that chance to someone who doesn't play 24/7 and misses out on signing up for events because they just can't be there when the sign up lists open.

[StJimmy]

So does that mean I can't hand a winning ticket (should I ever happen across one) to someone else to use because I'll be damned if I'm paying $100 to watch the usual MA's with their ridiculous bank accounts bag all the good stuff again, like I did on the Foehn.

I would much rather be able to give that chance to someone who doesn't play 24/7 and misses out on signing up for events because they just can't be there when the sign up lists open.

There's no actual ticket in game, it's just bright yellow screen scroll telling you what to do. The only thing you're left with is a piece of taffy like the losing ones. So there's nothing really to hand over to anyone else.

I think I also read something about not being able to transfer the admission/advance purchase between accounts unless you're also the owner of the other account, so nope.

[Elvenlady]

I figured as much, it was more of a rhetorical question really giving me the opportunity to whine about something for a moment that's a pet peeve of mine. That done, I'll say no more.

[Rainy Day]

I would much rather be able to give that chance to someone who doesn't play 24/7 and misses out on signing up for events because they just can't be there when the sign up lists open.

They said it's tagged to the person who opens it. So give away all your taffy without opening it to someone who wants a ticket and maybe they'll get lucky.

To Skeeter I think it was, I don't feel suckered at all. As you said, there are plenty of games out there. I play GS because I like it better, not because I'm too stupid to realize I could play something else.

I am also a lot more realistic about business operating costs than most people who like to claim Simu is rolling in dough from $15 per month access fees. David Watley isn't exactly in the poor house, but thinking the company would be making money hand over fist from a niche market game if everyone paid $15 a month is a bit idiotic.

RD

[Boris]

David Watley isn't exactly in the poor house, but thinking the company would be making money hand over fist from a niche market game if everyone paid $15 a month is a bit idiotic.

I would agree with you however some things to consider 1.) MUD's don't take much hardware to run on. There are free MUDs that cater to 200-300 people and probably have just as in depth gameplay that run just as well as GS (connection speed, down time etc.). 2.) There is little to no operating cost in terms of maintenance (as long as the MUD stays up which doesn't require constant monitoring). 3.)* ALL employees seem to be voluntary especially those that help build the product and provide customer service. (Thats like saying, "I've got an engineering firm, and all the engineers work for free.")
4.) To be quite frank, if GS code was freely available I can run GS on my machine at home (or at my office). Of course there won't be any customer service (although this is free once I get the volunteers) nor will there be any consistent updates (this again is free once I get the volunteers).
5.) Heck I don't even need the GS code, I can track down one of my RPG buddies that teaches University Math and is a game mechanics freak and get him to write up a nifty system. I can then code it all in a few months (given free time).

[Artha]

There are free MUDs that cater to 200-300 people and probably have just as in depth gameplay that run just as well as GS
No. Simu can charge a premium because no other MUD out there is nearly as complex, fleshed out, or advanced.


ALL employees seem to be voluntary especially those that help build the product and provide customer service.
They have quite a few in-house GMs who live in St. Louis. Mostly they've been working on Hero Engine stuff for HJ recently.


I can then code it all in a few months (given free time).
You are seriously underestimating the complexity of GS. It's taken over 10 years of development to get to where it is, and that's with hundreds of volunteers pumping hours into it.

[Boris]

No. Simu can charge a premium because no other MUD out there is nearly as complex, fleshed out, or advanced.

This is simply not true. Materia Magica, The Two Towers MUD (extremely hardcore RP, when I really want to RP I go there), Medieva, Threshold RPG (another extremely hardcore custom designed RPG where you need to go through an application process in order to create a character), MUME ( A Diku derivative yes, but so reworked that it might as well be a new MUD engine).

I really have no idea why people consider GS's system to be "advanced" when there are clear alternatives from other MUDs which have things like weather (and it's affects on travel, terrain, combat, Mass Combat, sight (which is pretty cool, room descriptions become more simplified as less is visible) for goodness sake's GS doesn't even have light (and this isn't just any old "MUD light" theres a detective RPG that has extremely realisitic light/shadowing where your candle for instance can flicker and cause shadow effects in the room which makes your character see things that aren't really there, fog, ships (and no not just "You get on in your ship", these ships are full sometimes 30 + room ships decked out with cannons/furniture/light sources/sails (or other means of propulsion)/ Ships manifest/ pay and revenue ledgers, raid opposing ships with highly fleshed out raiding system, tow ships to harbour to break it up for sale...insanely detailed) and ,even towns that players can build (and some towns are larger then even Wehnimers-and this is a player built town). You want to talk about world size? There are MUDs with excellent room descriptions that span over 20,000 rooms. Want to talk about combat systems? There are MUDs that take into account wind resistance in the current room due to the weather and elevation that affects anything from shooting bows to casting spells. Theres a ton more, (thousands of MUDs out there and most of them free to boot) all you really need to do is go look for them.
The only reason why I play GS is because I have some old friends that still hang about once in a while (that and I play for free). And I truly believe why anyone else hangs out in GS is 1.)It's relative size (no MUD can boast 650 players, or even 2000 players back in the day). 2.) Size begets friends. 3.) Friends make you want to play (no matter how much mechanics you can stick into a MUD, if it's empty then it's boring).

GS isn't really complex, I've downloaded source codes for some highly complex MUDs and it's simple C/C++. The only way it can become complex is if all the programmers over the 10 years either did their own thing (without guidelines of how things should be commented or named) or the code is just badly written, then it's just a pain in the ass to make something new (because you'll need to go through your predeccessor's code and fix that and then fix any subsequent code thatwas using that particular code). Then it can be a mess, but not because of any "game dependent complexity" issues.

[Jolena]

I always find it amusing when someone who talks about Gemstone and its lack of development, still plays.

[Sean of the Thread]

The only reason I ever played this crappy game was the amount of people to interact with and how "busy" the world seemed.

[Kia]

The only reason I ever played this crappy game was the amount of people to interact with and how "busy" the world seemed.

It's a good game not a crappy game, kthx.

And to stay on topic, I've been dumping all my unopened taffies on bench on the dais in Ta'Illistim. Take them if they're there!

Kia

[Boris]

I always find it amusing when someone who talks about Gemstone and its lack of development, still plays.

I can't stand people who don't read the entire post or not even understand what the post is about. We were talking about Gemstone being the "most advanced" MUD out there, and me saying that perhaps it is not. That and I have given my reason why I still play.

The only reason why I play GS is because I have some old friends that still hang about once in a while (that and I play for free). And I truly believe why anyone else hangs out in GS is 1.)It's relative size (no MUD can boast 650 players, or even 2000 players back in the day). 2.) Size begets friends. 3.) Friends make you want to play (no matter how much mechanics you can stick into a MUD, if it's empty then it's boring).

This was posted in my original response.

The only reason I ever played this crappy game was the amount of people to interact with and how "busy" the world seemed.

Yes, a similar reason why I play it still.

[Jolena]

Oh I read the entire post and I understood what you said. However, that doesn't negate the fact that you are downing the development, resources and mechanics of a game that you still play, for free or not.

[Bobmuhthol]

I really hope you never say anything bad about the United States government, Jolena.

[Drew]

everything Boris said

GS has over 20,000 different GSscripts which are mostly very complex. You could look at that as 20,000 different game systems. While there might be some games that are more complicated in certain areas I think you'd be hard pressed to find one that even held a candle (no pun intended) to GS overall.

[Merzbow]

Anyone who spends even two seconds thinking about the complexity of a system like the AdG and what is required to make it work in a world the size of GemStone should be able to realize why they take so long to develop. GS does have circa 20,000 rooms, probably 5k of that in hunting grounds.

[grenthor]

No. Simu can charge a premium because no other MUD out there is nearly as complex, fleshed out, or advanced.

This is simply not true. Threshold RPG (another extremely hardcore custom designed RPG where you need to go through an application process in order to create a character),

Threshold sucks. Very, very boring. And to try and compare the depth of a game like that to GS is ridiculous. Threshold has a fraction of the content of GS.

And making all sorts of fancy effects doesn't begin to equate to an overall complex and enjoyable game. I happen to freaking HATE light/dark systems. I find it stupid, and something more often than not that was put into place "because we can". Great. It's nightime. It's dark. Okay, so I buy a torch. No more nighttime! Great. What did you prove? You proved that you can make a room that says 'if char owns <item 150'a torch'> then goto 'room desc' else echo "You see darkness". Yay.

Ships. Okay. Gemstone has ships. I'd like to see more, but for the most part once you've been on a ship and gotten your chubby, after that it's mostly just an annoyance. "Great, I have to wander around here for 15 minutes before we get to shore". Sure it has it's moments when it serves an RP purpose, but certainly no purpose that generally couldn't be done another way.

Look, what it boils down to is everyone is going to be drawn to something different. Great. Gemstone doesn't interest you anymore. That's just peachy man. But don't come trying to make some claim that it should suck for everyone else or that you know how to do it better. It aint yer game anymore. Great. Guess what? It's still mine.

[Celephais]

Boris' point got kind of derailed by his ranting about being able to do it himself... It all boils down to the fact that GS is mostly volunteer supported, and that the overhead hardly justifies the need for subscription rates as high as they are and pay events as expensive as this.

Sure they have a staffed billing department and staffed developers (working away on HJ, which I'm sure the recent licensing to bioware netted them a pretty penny... yet it didn't affect GS prices).

I don't think they're insanely rich, but to quote Smykowski, "They made a million dollars"

[Rainy Day]

Boris' point got kind of derailed by his ranting about being able to do it himself... It all boils down to the fact that GS is mostly volunteer supported, and that the overhead hardly justifies the need for subscription rates as high as they are and pay events as expensive as this.

And you know this how? No one knows full details so how can you make claims like this as if they were fact? It's like because they have a large volunteer work force that everything else is cheap. Are you figuring in everything it costs to run a business, including things like janitorial services and paper for the copier? Oh yeah, and service agreements to fix the copiers and fax machines? Are you maybe underestimating the onsite staff and what they do? Someone has to restart the game when it crashes at 2am.

The way some people talk Simu is three people huddled around a single computer in a cardboard box somewhere with a tin can and string for when people need to call them up to make a character transfer.

Simu isn't some angel from heaven, all benevolent and all caring about us their loyal customers. I don't like everything they do. I especially don't like things I hear about Watley. I also don't like people acting as if they know it all about business when they're clueless.

RD

[Merzbow]

Don't make me break out the math guys.

[FinisWolf]

Please don't, I have heard this argument so many times I feel like it has been tattooed on my brain.

Finis