Cynical Thread but....

[Lucas]

Ok, the theory is I believe SIMU purposefully delays any release of major changes (I.E. new spells/combat changes whatever). Why? It's the carrot tied to the stick effect. You leave the carrot just out of reach so the players can continue to shell out the 30 bucks a month seeing that all elusive prize at the end. SIMU has figured out when the "threshold time" comes, when the players get fed up of the carrot and then actually let the players take the carrot (I.E. one of the major goals finished). I say this because it seems none of the goals actually get finished on time (they do eventually get done). But it gets fairly ridiculuous when things are pushed back 6 months then a 1 year. Thats like several hundred hours of programming, I mean ok GS code can be poorly written thus hard to program on but several hundred hours to code a new spell for a text based game? I think Carmack took about 2 years to code the Doom3 graphics engine.

[Asha]

I agree that they take a ridiculous amount of time to code/finish spell lists.
It's not like they're short of ideas or unable to work on them.

On the other hand, you're not shelling out 30 bucks a month just to wait for them are you? I couldn't care less if they left the lists as they are.

[StrayRogue]

If you think nothing ever actually gets done on time, you really art stupid and need to go back and look at the release lists of the last few years.

[CrystalTears]

I don't think he's saying that nothing ever gets done, just that it takes them a long time to do what they set out to do, usually past their own deadlines.

[Caede]

I'd be happy just to see open bugs get fixed -- new features are a welcome addition, but I don't think they're required to keep enjoyment up. I certainly don't pay $30 a month because I'm looking forward to 540 or cobbling -- those are just bonuses, in my mind.

It wasn't until comparitively recently that Simu started publishing these goal lists. I think they should go back to keeping these things internal, and we can just be pleasantly surprised when they come out with something new. (since I think your main issue is with being disappointed in missed targets?)

If you're playing Gemstone for the mechanics only, you're missing out; and, you're probably playing the wrong game.

[HarmNone]

I think a lot of this is due to the largely volunteer staff. These people have lives, jobs and families. They can't live and breathe GS, and they're not paid to do so. Therefore, the work that gets done has to be done, for the most part, during the leisure time of a mostly volunteer staff.

Is there some carrot dangling going on? I don't know; however, I think it would be a secondary cause of the delays, as well as a reason for Simu not to worry much about it.

[Landrion]

Ok, the theory is I believe SIMU purposefully delays any release of major changes (I.E. new spells/combat changes whatever). Why? It's the carrot tied to the stick effect. You leave the carrot just out of reach so the players can continue to shell out the 30 bucks a month seeing that all elusive prize at the end. SIMU has figured out when the "threshold time" comes, when the players get fed up of the carrot and then actually let the players take the carrot (I.E. one of the major goals finished). I say this because it seems none of the goals actually get finished on time (they do eventually get done). But it gets fairly ridiculuous when things are pushed back 6 months then a 1 year. Thats like several hundred hours of programming, I mean ok GS code can be poorly written thus hard to program on but several hundred hours to code a new spell for a text based game? I think Carmack took about 2 years to code the Doom3 graphics engine.

I think youre mistaking dysfunction for intent.

[HarmNone]

I agree that they take a ridiculous amount of time to code/finish spell lists.
It's not like they're short of ideas or unable to work on them.

On the other hand, you're not shelling out 30 bucks a month just to wait for them are you? I couldn't care less if they left the lists as they are.

QFT

If you're paying for GS in the hopes of finding a dynamic game, full of fast-paced additions and state-of-the-art coding, you're definitely not in the right game for you. There are other games out there that would be much more suited to this type of player, and most would be as inexpensive (or expensive, depending on your viewpoint) as GS.

Most of the free games don't offer a large player base, so that would be a consideration if it's something you seek, and most are as slow to change as GS. Some of the larger, graphical games are much more dynamic.

[Lucas]

They can't live and breathe GS, and they're not paid to do so. Therefore, the work that gets done has to be done, for the most part, during the leisure time of a mostly volunteer staff.

Whoa, back up. The employees that make the product GS IV dont get paid? Thats astounding... so where does all my money go? To the guy who owns SIMU? I'm truly amazed, this is some kind of insane business model. For most companies employment costs are like 60% (and thats for manufacturing where other productions costs namely raw materials come in). For companies that are almost all intellectual (I.E. something like SIMU where the product is more or less the employee) the costs are like 80%. So this is nuts. Is this even legal?

[zhelas]

I think a lot of this is due to the largely volunteer staff.


:yeahthat: This has been the case for as long as I can remembr.

[TheEschaton]

Yeah, GMs (except for a relative few, on-site) are volunteers. From what I hear, there's like some sorta pool that the GMs split monthly, but it's not even worth mentioning compared to the hours they put in.

Oh, and btw:


QFT

QFT = ?

I think I musta missed that one in the past two years.

-TheE-

[Jolena]

They can't live and breathe GS, and they're not paid to do so. Therefore, the work that gets done has to be done, for the most part, during the leisure time of a mostly volunteer staff.

Whoa, back up. The employees that make the product GS IV dont get paid? Thats astounding... so where does all my money go? To the guy who owns SIMU? I'm truly amazed, this is some kind of insane business model. For most companies employment costs are like 60% (and thats for manufacturing where other productions costs namely raw materials come in). For companies that are almost all intellectual (I.E. something like SIMU where the product is more or less the employee) the costs are like 80%. So this is nuts. Is this even legal?


Why wouldn't it be legal? To be fair, some of the employees of Simutronics are paid, but not very heavily. The majority of the positions are volunteer, however and why would a person volunteering to work for you without pay be illegal?

QFT means Quoted For Truth

[HarmNone]

They can't live and breathe GS, and they're not paid to do so. Therefore, the work that gets done has to be done, for the most part, during the leisure time of a mostly volunteer staff.

Whoa, back up. The employees that make the product GS IV dont get paid? Thats astounding... so where does all my money go? To the guy who owns SIMU? I'm truly amazed, this is some kind of insane business model. For most companies employment costs are like 60% (and thats for manufacturing where other productions costs namely raw materials come in). For companies that are almost all intellectual (I.E. something like SIMU where the product is more or less the employee) the costs are like 80%. So this is nuts. Is this even legal?

:rtfm: j/k

You mean you didn't know that Simu operates using a largely volunteer staff? I thought everyone was aware of that, but I guess some new players (and, apparently, some who have been playing longer) aren't.

Most of their GMs and all of the GHs are volunteers. The GMs get a pittance (probably pizza money) for the work they do. That's based on how much work they do. The GHs get no monetary compensation, at all.

It's not illegal, no. These people VOLUNTEER. It's awfully difficult to sue someone for something YOU volunteered to do, knowing that it was a largely uncompensated effort. Most GMs and GHs do it for love of the game and the opportunity to learn (some do it because they love the power they perceive in the position).

[Hulkein]

Simutronics borders near slave labor tactics. They get people addicted then have them work for free.

Obviously slightly tongue in cheek, but it's hysterical that people do that much for free.

[Asha]

They do get free acounts for all games and in game perks (box popping and infini-alters ect ect)
I'd do it for nothing if I could have those alone.

[HarmNone]

The GMs get free accounts. The GHs don't. That goes for the other things you mentioned, as well. The GHs get a few little perks, but nothing to mention, really. There's also a limit on the number of alters (and other amenities) a GM can get in a given time period, if my informant was correct.

[Sean of the Thread]

Simutronics borders near slave labor tactics. They get people addicted then have them work for free.

Obviously slightly tongue in cheek, but it's hysterical that people do that much for free.

People addicted to power tripping.

[HarmNone]

That's true of some, but not all, Xyelin. I've known those who did it strictly for love of the game and the people who played it. I'll agree that there are certainly those who perceive some kind of power in being a GM on a text-based game. I don't know how they come to that conclusion, but I'll leave that justification to them. ;)

[zhelas]

Most GMs and GHs do it for love of the game and the opportunity to learn.

This is the main reason why GS4 still exists today. People love to play it and work for free(or almost for free) to keep this world alive and running. The strength of this world really is on the player base, though it has shrunk over the last 6 years.

[zhelas]

The Power came from the perks and the fact that some of the GMs used to have secret merchants just for their friends. I know my dwarf stumbled in on one of these small gatherings and was threatened to leave.

[HarmNone]

The Power came from the perks and the fact that some of the GMs used to have secret merchants just for their friends. I know my dwarf stumbled in on one of these small gatherings and was threatened to leave.

Agreed, Zhelas. However, as I understand it, that kind of abuse was curtailed quite some time ago.

[zhelas]

Agreed, Zhelas. However, as I understand it, that kind of abuse was curtailed quite some time ago.
It still happens to some extent. The beginning of this year to be exact. My Dwarf bumped into a small party at one of the wharfs in the Landing where some folks were get alterations done.

[TheEschaton]

That's true of some, but not all, Xyelin. I've known those who did it strictly for love of the game and the people who played it. I'll agree that there are certainly those who perceive some kind of power in being a GM on a text-based game. I don't know how they come to that conclusion, but I'll leave that justification to them.

I'd do it for all the free drinks at Simucon as everyone tried to butter me up, right before I slammed the door in their FIZZACE!

Maybe that's being on a power trip, I dunno. ;)

Edited to add: I have no idea what they're looking for in a GM, personally. I have a degree in computer science, and have been a mentor for some time. Anyways, wouldn't want to be one now until after law school, just don't have the time. Ah well, 2009 for the GMness! After 14 years (at that point), they can throw a brother a bone.

-TheE-

[HarmNone]

Zhelas,

Let me give you a possibility for that one...

The "small party" may have been GHs getting their pittance for the work they do (If so, it should have been done "upstairs"). Or...it could have been a workshop for a special event. It's easy to assume something when you don't know all of what's going on.

I'm not making excuses for it, and I don't know that there IS a reasonable explanation for this particular event. Those are just thoughts that came to mind.

[Tolwynn]

It's not illegal, no. These people VOLUNTEER. It's awfully difficult to sue someone for something YOU volunteered to do, knowing that it was a largely uncompensated effort. Most GMs and GHs do it for love of the game and the opportunity to learn (some do it because they love the power they perceive in the position).

This being the lawsuit-happy US, it already happened a while back with Ultima Online. Needless to say, no major MMO utilizes volunteer CS staff at this point. If Simu tries it with HJ they may eventually find themselves in for a rude awakening.

[Stanley Burrell]

Ok, the theory is I believe SIMU purposefully delays any release of major changes (I.E. new spells/combat changes whatever). Why? It's the carrot tied to the stick effect. You leave the carrot just out of reach so the players can continue to shell out the 30 bucks a month seeing that all elusive prize at the end. SIMU has figured out when the "threshold time" comes, when the players get fed up of the carrot and then actually let the players take the carrot (I.E. one of the major goals finished)

I wish that I could agree with you.

I really do.

Unfortunately, only when Simutronics becomes a blue chip stock option that rivals the Microsoft syndicate, then may there actually exist enough physical numbers in planning power to put something like this forward.

Eh, my 2¢.

[Artha]

It still happens to some extent. The beginning of this year to be exact. My Dwarf bumped into a small party at one of the wharfs in the Landing where some folks were get alterations done.
There are random alters all the time, just because it was in an unusual place doesn't make it a GM giving stuff away to their friends.

[StrayRogue]

Yes, but its also equally dumb to think that Xyelin's example never happened(s).

[Artha]

Yeah

[Sean of the Thread]

I'd do it for all the free drinks at Simucon as everyone tried to butter me up, right before I slammed the door in their FIZZACE!

Maybe that's being on a power trip, I dunno. ;)

Edited to add: I have no idea what they're looking for in a GM, personally. I have a degree in computer science, and have been a mentor for some time. Anyways, wouldn't want to be one now until after law school, just don't have the time. Ah well, 2009 for the GMness! After 14 years (at that point), they can throw a brother a bone.

-TheE-


They're looking for BASIC and HEX CODE programmers to volunteer 275 programming hours a year to code slipper making.

[zhelas]

They're looking for BASIC and HEX CODE programmers to volunteer 275 programming hours a year to code slipper making.

:rofl: Come on I thought the new restrictions to herbs left on the benches in public areas was better.

[Leetahkin]

QFT means Quoted For Truth


I always thought it was Quite Fucking True. Guess either would work. :D

[FinisWolf]

I an in accord with NM and I *think* Stray on this. Compared to 4 or 5 years ago, GS has come a long way. Things are actually getting done. We are seeing new things. Compared to back then when almost nothing got done this is a HUGE improvement. And I sure as hell don't pay my subscriptions fee's waiting for releases!

Finis

[StrayRogue]

If Lucas didn't know about the GM's being a volunteer workforce, I highly suspect he knows fuck all about the history of GS releases and design principles.

Yes, a lot of things have been late. Some things get here on time too. A lot of stuff get's released that isn't planned.

I'd say in the last 5 years GS has expanded more than it probably did in the first 10 (after the deICEing).

[Celephais]

If Lucas didn't know about the GM's being a volunteer workforce, I highly suspect he knows fuck all about the history of GS releases and design principles.

Yes, a lot of things have been late. Some things get here on time too. A lot of stuff get's released that isn't planned.

I'd say in the last 5 years GS has expanded more than it probably did in the first 10 (after the deICEing).

Um, I think every single one of Lucas' posts have proved he knows fuck all... period. He just likes throwing out opinions on things he knows nothing about (which seems to be a popular COA on these boards).

[Skirmisher]

He made an incorrect assumption, even though I think it would seem a reasonable one to most people unaware of GS's particular model.

He didnt seem to press the issue after being informed as to the facts.

Thats better than some of our regulars, so relax.

[Ignot]

fucking carrot...

[Apathy]

BCS and GS4 were both major projects. They did not require a lot of code creation, but all that code from years ago, which as I understand could [probably was] have been written by a 13 year old in a C++ class, was an absolute mess.

Decoding takes up a lot more time than coding.

[StrayRogue]

Um, I think every single one of Lucas' posts have proved he knows fuck all... period. He just likes throwing out opinions on things he knows nothing about (which seems to be a popular COA on these boards).

Agreed.

And that brings me on to another subject: WHY do these people who whine so very much about how crap the game is, how crap blah blah is, how inefficient GM X is, etc etc, play the fucking game?

If it's so terrible, QUIT.

[Meges]

The GMs get free accounts. The GHs don't. That goes for the other things you mentioned, as well. The GHs get a few little perks, but nothing to mention, really. There's also a limit on the number of alters (and other amenities) a GM can get in a given time period, if my informant was correct.

A GameHost does get one free account. The account that contains the Host character is credited the amount of a Prime Subscription. If they have a Premium Account, then the Prime rate is subtracted from the total and they have to meet the difference. As was stated, they do receive perks, and they're quite nice by themselves, but when you consider all the work and grief that goes into Hosting, it's almost a slap in the face; GMs, in my opinion, have it much worse. GameHosts operate on a point system based on the amount of time they're actually onduty and they can redeem those points when ever they want for certain services or other reward type things. Use your imagination to figure out what is offered.

GameMasters on the other hand have far more freedom and perks, but the fact of the matter is that they likely receive a larger slap in the face, because of the sheer amount of time they invest monthly. They put up with the same crap that Hosts have to put up with and then turn around and have to listen to the players on the message board totally rip apart something they spent a huge amount of time on, in their spare time. It is not uncommon for a GM to put in over 40 hours a week performing assigned tasks to complete goals. Yes, a week. It's insane and it's obvious that those GMs absolutely love the game and want to positively add to it. They love seeing us drool because we like a pet project they've devoted months upon months to. While I consider them to be paid employees, because they receive monetary compensation, they'd likely get paid more in some sweat shop in India or China.

Almost all of the GMs do it because they love the game and want to add to it. There have been a few who have taken advantage of their position, like a certain wizard who holds the title to the Landing. There's been a few more I know about who have abused their power and have been promptly released from the ranks, but those types are very rare and are usually found out very quickly.

I dislike my fair share of Hosts and GMs, but it's based solely on personal reasons or personality clashes, and most definitely not attributed to the work they do. Both GMs and Hosts get my gratitude simply because they have the gumption to endure all the stupid little childish crap they have to deal with on a daily bases. I Hosted for around a year and a half, and it wore thin on me constantly. "Mr. Host, Yoohoo attacked me then brought his brother's sister's mother's little brother and killed me! BAN HIM NOW!!!" PvP assists suck and that's the majority of your time when Hosting, because it takes so freaking long to deal with that crap and to log it all down, then cross log it to all the other characters involved. Man, I hated that and in the end, I couldn't handle it. /end rant


Meges

[StrayRogue]

I dislike my fair share of Hosts and GMs, but it's based solely on personal reasons or personality clashes, and most definitely not attributed to the work they do. Both GMs and Hosts get my gratitude simply because they have the gumption to endure all the stupid little childish crap they have to deal with on a daily bases.

Meges

Really well said. This definately echoes my own sentiments in regards to the GMs.

Note that how many ex-GMs ever come back to play GS when they stepdown? Not many I bet and I'd put money on this being from GS burnout caused by the immense workload.

[HarmNone]

In order to have any time to really play the game, a GM would have to have virutally nothing else to do, I'd think. I'd agree, Stray, that they probably don't return to the game after they step down because they're burnt to a frazzle. It's really kinda sad, when you think about it.

Thanks for enlightening us, Meges. I'd asked my mother about hosting and GMing, as she was a host, and moved on to AGM before she had to leave due to illness. I probably got what she said wrong, so I'm glad you could correct the bit about hosts having a point system and getting a free account. I wasn't aware of either of those. I do agree, however, that it's not enough for the work they put in and the GMs are even worse off. Both groups deserve respect and thanks from the players for what they do. It might not always please everyone, but nobody can do that.

[Meges]

In order to have any time to really play the game, a GM would have to have virutally nothing else to do, I'd think. I'd agree, Stray, that they probably don't return to the game after they step down because they're burnt to a frazzle. It's really kinda sad, when you think about it.

Thanks for enlightening us, Meges. I'd asked my mother about hosting and GMing, as she was a host, and moved on to AGM before she had to leave due to illness. I probably got what she said wrong, so I'm glad you could correct the bit about hosts having a point system and getting a free account. I wasn't aware of either of those. I do agree, however, that it's not enough for the work they put in and the GMs are even worse off. Both groups deserve respect and thanks from the players for what they do. It might not always please everyone, but nobody can do that.

I know things change and maybe she was on staff a lot earlier than I. I started Host training in April 2002. I moderated for nearly that whole time as well, and wow, talk about crazy. My resignation letter is dated November 23, 2003. I know they still use the point system, and I know they still get the Prime Account credits, but I'm not really sure what all happened before my time. There are other perks that involve pay events if a Host NPCs for a certain amount of time. Actually, there are a few others as well.

Reading through some of these old assist logs and meetings is really quite humorous. They'd make for some good laughs...but eh, that'd likely get me into trouble, heh.


Meges

[Nilandia]

A GameHost does get one free account. The account that contains the Host character is credited the amount of a Prime Subscription. If they have a Premium Account, then the Prime rate is subtracted from the total and they have to meet the difference. As was stated, they do receive perks, and they're quite nice by themselves, but when you consider all the work and grief that goes into Hosting, it's almost a slap in the face; GMs, in my opinion, have it much worse. GameHosts operate on a point system based on the amount of time they're actually onduty and they can redeem those points when ever they want for certain services or other reward type things. Use your imagination to figure out what is offered.

GameMasters on the other hand have far more freedom and perks, but the fact of the matter is that they likely receive a larger slap in the face, because of the sheer amount of time they invest monthly. They put up with the same crap that Hosts have to put up with and then turn around and have to listen to the players on the message board totally rip apart something they spent a huge amount of time on, in their spare time. It is not uncommon for a GM to put in over 40 hours a week performing assigned tasks to complete goals. Yes, a week. It's insane and it's obvious that those GMs absolutely love the game and want to positively add to it. They love seeing us drool because we like a pet project they've devoted months upon months to. While I consider them to be paid employees, because they receive monetary compensation, they'd likely get paid more in some sweat shop in India or China.

Almost all of the GMs do it because they love the game and want to add to it. There have been a few who have taken advantage of their position, like a certain wizard who holds the title to the Landing. There's been a few more I know about who have abused their power and have been promptly released from the ranks, but those types are very rare and are usually found out very quickly.

I dislike my fair share of Hosts and GMs, but it's based solely on personal reasons or personality clashes, and most definitely not attributed to the work they do. Both GMs and Hosts get my gratitude simply because they have the gumption to endure all the stupid little childish crap they have to deal with on a daily bases. I Hosted for around a year and a half, and it wore thin on me constantly. "Mr. Host, Yoohoo attacked me then brought his brother's sister's mother's little brother and killed me! BAN HIM NOW!!!" PvP assists suck and that's the majority of your time when Hosting, because it takes so freaking long to deal with that crap and to log it all down, then cross log it to all the other characters involved. Man, I hated that and in the end, I couldn't handle it. /end rant


Meges
You're correct on pretty much all points on how Hosts work, Meges. It truly has to be a labor of love, else you don't survive long in it.

PvP and CvC assists make up the vast majority of your time when you handle assists, simply because of the sheer amount of time needed to unravel the he-said-she-said-he-attacked-me-I-want-him-banned and make sure it's on the record. And don't forget to mention spending half the time calming people down and actually convincing them that you actually give a flying rat's behind what happens about the situation. It's easy to spend your whole shift on one assist of this type.

One thing to note, Meges, is that we finally got a tool to set logs to more than one person at once.

However, what you mentioned about benefits for Hosts is correct, with the exception of your wording about redeeming points. Redeeming points can take quite a bit of time, and on the average, using premium points is often vastly superior for turnover time. I doubt you intended to make it sound like the GMs drop what they're doing to give benefits to the Hosts, but I wanted to make it clear.

Gretchen

[Nilandia]

Reading through some of these old assist logs and meetings is really quite humorous. They'd make for some good laughs...but eh, that'd likely get me into trouble, heh.


Meges
Oh, man. Don't remind me about the JOTDs. I'm still scarred.

Gretchen

[Meges]

Oh, man. Don't remind me about the JOTDs. I'm still scarred.

Gretchen

LOL - Yeah, Quabu/Joter...man, ugh. Enough said. Sometimes I felt sorry for him, but I'd return to my senses anytime he opened his mouth.

And on the redemption of points, it was fairly quick for me with the padding I had done a couple of times. Actually, same day type of thing. I never enchanted anything through the system simply because my main character was/is a wizard. Most of the others are instant redemption anyway, like RPAs etc. And uh, I can't imagine using the points for a crystal amulet. Are those still even on there? Silver? Heh, that chart has some stupid stuff on it. At any rate, I did most of my alterations via the Mentor system, heh.


Meges

[Meges]

...One thing to note, Meges, is that we finally got a tool to set logs to more than one person at once...
Gretchen

Oh see, now that's just simply nice. I had written a script to do all that for me, but because the log buffer would run over sometimes, I'd have to correct up to 9 logs, which was the largest PvP assist I had, so I basically quit using it, heh. Man, that along with the ridiculous assist made my 2 hour shift run way over. What really sucked was having to add the little "x-logged to so-and-so [x9 with 8 other characters]" at the end of each one. I'd have to pre-type all those down in notepad so it reflected accurately in the logs, then I'd paste them onto the end of each log before I stuck it onto the character(s).


Meges

[Nilandia]

Oh see, now that's just simply nice. I had written a script to do all that for me, but because the log buffer would run over sometimes, I'd have to correct up to 9 logs, which was the largest PvP assist I had, so I basically quit using it, heh. Man, that along with the ridiculous assist made my 2 hour shift run way over. What really sucked was having to add the little "x-logged to so-and-so [x9 with 8 other characters]" at the end of each one. I'd have to pre-type all those down in notepad so it reflected accurately in the logs, then I'd paste them onto the end of each log before I stuck it onto the character(s).


Meges
You ain't kidding. Multiple logging is relatively new, so I spent the majority of my time logging to each individual character. Necessary, but annoying and it took up a good bit of log space. I never thought my finger would recover from hitting the up button to recover what I'd typed.

Regarding redeeming the points, I never really used them, but I did once for alters and it took a few weeks for them to get to me. I have a ton of points that I never used from while I was still working there (over 2 years of Hosting and only using it for one alter stacks up!) and I have a request for padding in... going on a few months now. I really don't know if they'll honor the request because I'm not working for them anymore.

I remember trying to use my points for another alter one time, and I got a response from a GM while I was in the middle of a major section of the GSS, where Ulstram was trying to convince the merchant to give up the fourth piece! Talk about timing! :lol:

Gretchen

[Meges]

Thanks for enlightening us, Meges. I'd asked my mother about hosting and GMing, as she was a host, and moved on to AGM before she had to leave due to illness. I probably got what she said wrong, so I'm glad you could correct the bit about hosts having a point system and getting a free account. I wasn't aware of either of those. I do agree, however, that it's not enough for the work they put in and the GMs are even worse off. Both groups deserve respect and thanks from the players for what they do. It might not always please everyone, but nobody can do that.

Holy cow...I think I know who your mother is. If it's who I think it is, she was a very, very sweet lady. I really enjoyed being around her in the Mentors and while Hosting. Then she suddenly disappeared and no one would say why. I still miss her. Of course, <g> this is assuming it's the same person. I'll PM you about it.


Meges

[HarmNone]

Heh. Per your PM, that's exactly who my mom is, and yes! She is a very sweet person! Thanks so much for saying so. :)

Now, since I've PM'd you, you know why she didn't return and why nobody could give you a reason. She wasn't able to contact them.

[Nytecaster]

If you honestly think that GS hasn't been through major changes in the last ten years since it's been on the web, I dare them to put a Gemstone III instance out there to prove you differently.

You would be amazed at sheer lines of code for simple actions such as emotes, let alone for spell lists, new areas, game design changes, EBP rolls, Cman implementations, bug fixes, unique items, and much more. I am not even considering things such as alterations, merchants, events, roleplay, invasions and the likes, just the pure code to do everyday tasks is monsterous enough. All this has to be balanced delicately or its exploited.

Now consider how long some of you take to balance a checkbook and you'll see why game design isn't as simple as 1-2-3, more like 1-2-3, check, 4-5-6, check..7-8-? Oop, start over, fix. 1-2-3, 4-5-6, 7-8-9, 10-11-12,...,...

[Artha]

In Simu's case, Game design is more like 1-2-3, listen to complaints about 4, implement 4 without listening to player input, nerf 2, hear complaints, nerf 1 and 3 to balance it out, 4-5-6, add lore requirements to 6, nerf 5, add components to 4, 7-8-?, fix bug in 8 that allows players to dupe items, nerf 7, raise prices to coincide with release 9, HSN time, 10,11,12,13,14,15.

[Asha]

Artha that's presicely correct. You got the memo too then.

[Meges]

In Simu's case, Game design is more like 1-2-3, listen to complaints about 4, implement 4 without listening to player input, nerf 2, hear complaints, nerf 1 and 3 to balance it out, 4-5-6, add lore requirements to 6, nerf 5, add components to 4, 7-8-?, fix bug in 8 that allows players to dupe items, nerf 7, raise prices to coincide with release 9, HSN time, 10,11,12,13,14,15.

Heh, that really cracked me up.


Meges

[SpunGirl]

Meges, are you still a mentor?

-K

[Caramia]

Some information about Hosts and GMs have been revealed over the years, usually by the disgruntled and the dismissed, often making a pretty telling case for why they probably should have never been hired in the first place.

It's one thing to talk about perks, quite another to openly reveal tools and situations.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I love your icon Caramia, and your old icon too! That line on the abdomen is a woman's sexiest feature!

[Meges]

Meges, are you still a mentor?

-K

Short Answer: No.

Slightly Longer Answer:

I was a Mentor as my Wizard from 1999-2002 or early 2003 - I guess I could look it up. I was one of the Mentor Chief Councils, but it was very difficult for me to Host and do that at the same time, so I resigned from the Society. Not only because of time issues alone, but at that time, it really used to rub me the wrong way that most of the GMs who were also Mentors weren't meeting their monthly requirements. I vowed to never be like that, which is why I didn't just demote myself and instead simply removed myself altogether. How can a sub-organization demand its membership meet certain requirements when the management of the company, who also holds membership in the same sub-organization, cannot meet these requirements? It set a poor example and served as an excuse to more than one Mentor who found themselves failing to meet requirements month after month. Although, we did tweak the LOA policy a bit in an effort to mitigate these situations. In the end though, I think it just made a dying horse die even slower.

I doubt I'd be posting half the stuff I do if I were still a Mentor or on staff. I wasn't a Yes Man or anything like that, but I didn't believe in airing dirty laundry and that's still staff's position as well. I'm sure the Mentors are still the same way as well, but I occassionally see some Mentors posting things they shouldn't be posting, but proving who is who is another matter, heh. We had issues with this before and had "nice times" debating courses of action. Now, I just sit back and get a few good chuckles and think to myself, "Wow..."


Meges

[Meges]

Some information about Hosts and GMs have been revealed over the years, usually by the disgruntled and the dismissed, often making a pretty telling case for why they probably should have never been hired in the first place.

It's one thing to talk about perks, quite another to openly reveal tools and situations.

They're not supposed to talk about perks at all. Neither Mentors ("inner-workings") nor Hosts ("don't you dare tell anyone anything, or else!"). New Hosts don't, or didn't know that there were even perks in the first place outside of the free account and no type ahead. That's not revealed until after the Host completes training, which can last up to a year for the really slow ones. GMs are NEVER supposed to talk about any of these things, even if they are fired. It's part of their NDA and Confidentiality Agreement. The best you'll get from a GM is that they get pizza money. It's the same line they all use. Melissa has posted it several times on the official forums and other GMs have repeated it time and time again. I've been told the same exact thing from 3 other GMs on different occassions. Pizza money, heh. While it's probably true, it's the generic company answer.


Meges

[SpunGirl]

Dear Meges,

I love you. IM me.

-K (Jojobabee on AIM)

[Meges]

Dear Meges,

I love you. IM me.

-K (Jojobabee on AIM)

Heh. I haven't used AIM in years. Well, I guess I have once or twice, but I quit using it while I play because all the IMs got annoying. Let me see if I can remember the PW to my old addy. I guess you'll find out in a few minutes...once I reinstall it.


Meges

[Nytecaster]

In Simu's case, Game design is more like 1-2-3, listen to complaints about 4, implement 4 without listening to player input, nerf 2, hear complaints, nerf 1 and 3 to balance it out, 4-5-6, add lore requirements to 6, nerf 5, add components to 4, 7-8-?, fix bug in 8 that allows players to dupe items, nerf 7, raise prices to coincide with release 9, HSN time, 10,11,12,13,14,15.

Everyone says that about every game. You cannot find an RPG or MMORPG out there that people have this very complaint. I guess every company sucks. Go run one yourself.

[Wezas]

Everyone says that about every game. You cannot find an RPG or MMORPG out there that people have this very complaint. I guess every company sucks. Go run one yourself.

WoW, I think, is actually doing a pretty good job.

Bug fix patch every Tuesday. Enhancements/additional features once every few months. Test servers that are open to test out the new changes before they're rolled out on all servers.

[Rainy Day]

WoW, I think, is actually doing a pretty good job.

Bug fix patch every Tuesday. Enhancements/additional features once every few months. Test servers that are open to test out the new changes before they're rolled out on all servers.

That's great, but it doesn't mean that people don't constantly complain about it anyway, just like the previous person you quoted said.

GS does bug fixes every day and enhancements and additional features every month. Doesn't stop people from being cynical and posting that nothing ever gets done, except for nerfs.

RD

[HarmNone]

I think it's just human nature to complain loud and long about anything that doesn't completely meet expectations, while taking the good things as one's due. Why discuss the good when you can bitch about the bad? It's not near as much fun, apparently.

For the record, I've seen some pretty vehement complaining about just about every game out there. Perfect just ain't possible.

[StrayRogue]

Wow also is late with the big summer upgrade as well.

[CrystalTears]

How can you be late with something you never gave a date for?

[StrayRogue]

It said summer 2006.

[CrystalTears]

I guess. I don't remember them stating a summer deadline. It's been mostly a fall or end of year type of deal. :shrug:

[Nytecaster]

My favorite game of all time is Eve-Online and it has disturbances in gameplay that usually occur in streaks, mostly during major patches and content upgrade periods. It also has a half to one hour downtime everyday, yet many who play it feel it is the best game of all time. These same people find time to complain about CCP (the company who runs Eve-Online) and how they handle these upgrades, but then turn around and complain if they do not add content for periods of time.

It's a no-win situation for companies to deal with. The best you can do is keep the upgrades coming in as bug-free as you possibly can before going live. A few delays here and there to prevent major crashes or exploits is a number one priority that most of you are unaware of, that is because a job IS being done to prevent them from even surfacing.