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FinisWolf
08-06-2006, 03:28 PM
Lich Form Proposal · on 8/6/2006 9:31:37 AM https://www.play.net/images/forums/links-arrows.gif (http://forum.gsplayers.com/) 3721 (https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=29&topic=2&message=3721) https://www.play.net/images/transparent.gifhttps://www.play.net/images/transparent.gifhttps://www.play.net/images/forums/reply.gif (https://www.play.net/forums/post.asp?forum=102&category=29&topic=2&replyto=3721) Reply (https://www.play.net/forums/post.asp?forum=102&category=29&topic=2&replyto=3721)I decided to redo my proposal based off recent discussion, and the flesh it out more.

Lich Form 745-775

DESCRIPTION: true master of necromancy is able to turn his magic upon himself and transform into a lich upon his death. Then, upon the expiration of the spell, the sorcerer returns to his normal form of a corpse and must still be healed/raised as normal.

GOAL: To allow sorcerers to rescue themselves or others from dangerous situations, to allow sorcerers to get revenge on the creature that killed them.

SPELL DESIGN REQUISITES:

It is necessary to devise a way for a lich, devoid of spirit and spells, to survive for more than a few seconds in an area in which the equivalent player, alive and fully spelled, just died.

It is necessary to devise a way for a lich not to be abused in the gaining of treasure or experience while in this superior form.

WHAT YOU CAN DO AS A LICH:
Kill
Drag
Eat Herbs
Drink from a flask

WHAT YOU CANNOT DO AS A LICH:
Search or Skin kills, or gain experience from kills others search.
Cast spells
Use society skills

LICH IMMUNITES: While a lich you are immune to:
Bloodloss (you're already dead).
Stuns (you're already dead).
Fear Attacks (Things are afraid of you, not the other way around)

DURATION: 2 minutes + 10 seconds per necromancy lore rank.

LICH ATTACKS: While in lich form there are 3 attack verbs you may use, none use mana, but all cause a hard RT. All attack damages are based on a level comparison manuever roll.

Slap: If barehanded you may slap, causing slashing damage and possibly disease.
Scream: A player friendly area-affect fear attack.
Stare: Like 717

LICH SKILL BONUSES: In order to make sure players don't immediately die, when turned into Lich form they get the following temporary skill bonuses:
1 Dodge Rank per Necro Lore Rank
1 CM Rank per Necro Lore Rank
1 Brawling Rank per Necro Lore Rank
Additionally the spell grants phantom spirit points, or a flat bonus to make up for their loss. I'm not sure on all the systems that spirit points touch but I imagine having 0 spirit would make it hard to survive in any hunting area. It could be that the Dodge/CM ranks would make up for it, but I'm not sure.

SPELL RITUAL:

To cast this spell a sorcerer must obtain a vessel, such as a bracelet or amulet, from the Heart of the Art. The sorcerer must then obtain a runestone and draw a new style of rune on it (Viril'fyn maybe? Haha). The sorcerer preps Lich Form and casts it at the runestone, this creates a bond. The sorcerer may then cast any other spells at the runestone as long as the bond lasts, the runestone absorbs these spells. The runestone's capacity for stored spells is equal to one spell level per rank of necromancy lore. So if you had 26 ranks of necromancy lore you could cast 712 & 414 at it. The sorcerer then places this runestone inside his or her vessel. Upon death the vessel activates the runestone, turning the sorcerer into a lich, and casting all of the stored spells on him or her. The runestone then crumbles.

CONCLUSION:

1. This spell fills a need, a high level necromancy spell.
2. This spell does not make sorcerers better hunters, it would not affect the balance of hunting areas.
3. I believe the cost of the spell, mana + a runestone per cast + lore requirements, more than justifies it's powers.
4. This spell would be usable, barely by someone without any necromancy lore training, but would obviously be most useful by those with it.
5. I believe the benefits of being a lich, as laid out, will make it feasible for a lich to survive in an area which is obviously deadly, long enough to get use out of the spell, while at the same time not making the lich impervious to attack.
6. This would be the only spell in the game that requires a character to die first in order to use it, I think that is enough to justify it's power.
7. Like Ninjas, this spell is just flipping sweet.

Virilneus
Dwarven Sorcerer & Master Blacksmith
Lich Form for Sorcerers - http://www.virilneus.com/lichform.php (https://www.play.net/forums/redirect.asp?URL=http://www.virilneus.com/lichform.php)
http://www.playershops.com/Virilneus (https://www.play.net/forums/redirect.asp?URL=http://www.playershops.com/Virilneus) - Hand Forged Brawling Weapons, One Handed Edged, Spell Components, Scrolls. Now serving katars!

Bobmuhthol
08-06-2006, 03:40 PM
I was under the impression that this was a GM proposal when reading most of it. Then I saw Virilneus. Then I stopped caring about the proposal.

StrayRogue
08-06-2006, 03:43 PM
Neat idea, stupid follow-through.

1 Brawling rank + 1 Dodge rank per Necro lore could be at best 2x with 200 skill in necro lore, which I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to take.

So, lets say a capped sorcerer is fully 1x in Necro lore. 1x in brawl and dodge alone, without spells, is not enough DS (or especially TD) to survive another attack in OTF. They'd die, Lich form, then die on the next attack.

Secondly, I think Voln sorcerer's would have a conflict of interests when using this spell.

FinisWolf
08-06-2006, 03:45 PM
It is well laid out.

I just do not see it happening. :shrug: Just thought I would share. I like seeing player ingenuity at work, and this is well thought out, even if it won't be implemented ... then again this is for sorcerers, so it has a better chance of happening then the other professions getting something this unique. :shrug:

Finis

Kuyuk
08-06-2006, 03:46 PM
I thought it was interesting until I realized that myself.


K.

Numbers
08-06-2006, 04:00 PM
Didn't Setzier think of this first years and years ago?

Ignot
08-06-2006, 05:14 PM
I like the idea but he made it to confusing. It should just be that your able to rescue yourself, not combat critters or players after death.

Artha
08-06-2006, 06:10 PM
It sounds like something people might like, there's no way it's getting implemented.

DCSL
08-06-2006, 06:17 PM
I would be pissed if this got made. Mostly because I'm insanely jealous of incredibly high percentage of awesome and useful spells sorcerers have already. And their guild.

Asha
08-06-2006, 06:23 PM
If there was no way to animate a player corpse already, I'd think this was impossible..

StrayRogue
08-07-2006, 01:12 PM
It cracks me up that Virilneus is just as retarded on the officials as he was here. Gotta love his inept handle on basic games mechanics, as well as his unending tunnel vision and love for his own creations.

It makes me smile to know that his spell won't be made, regardless of how cool it is.

crb
08-07-2006, 01:47 PM
Well I think I know who the cleric is who keeps trying to disagree with me. Must be that little bitch StrayRogue. Still obsessing over my dislike of sanctify sitting in his trailer typing shit all day. Dude, all the attention is a little creepy. Search the forums for mentions of "Virilneus" in your posts, by far you mention my name more than any other user, whats that about? You've got issues.

Anyways I originally proposed this a few years ago, after Setzier had left by then so it certainly wasn't him. It was also liked by Nilven at the time, of course he hasn't yet commented on the current discussion.

I give it a very good chance of being implemented. Actually I've got a pretty good track record with spells. Many many years ago I proposed a sorcerous bolt spell that is almost exactly like empathic assault. I also was involved in the original ensorcelment proposal, so much so that Romulus, the sorcerer guru at the time, said that I could be involved in the release event. Of course it still hasn't been released and Romulus is long gone, but it is still planned.

The fact is this spell fits, like a glove, a sorcerous need.

To balance out our circle we need a high level necromancy spell more powerful than animate dead. We will have Major Demon Summoning eventually and without a necromancy counterpart our profession will lose diversity in lore choice.

With the launch of GS4 the GMs worked to balance creatures & spells so that now hunting areas are pretty well balanced.

As such it is important that future spells do not tip the hunting balance too much.

So in short, high level spells will most likely be made as utility spells.

What can necromancy do as a utility? Self-animating is an obvious choice.

Additionally there already exists code in other spells, like animate dead, that could be borrowed to make this happen. It will be easier than coding an entirely new spell.

Finally the proposal is almost universally liked by sorcerers.

Add all these things up and I give it a pretty good chance of being implemented.

>I would be pissed if this got made. Mostly because I'm insanely jealous of incredibly high percentage of awesome and useful spells sorcerers have already. And their guild.

Our spells have style, but we also have more component costs than other professions. Look at animate dead. Blood from a troll, moonflowers from icemule, saltwater from solhaven, put it all together, then you need a gem too. The end result isn't that much better than an animal companion or a singing sword. The spell certainly gets an A for appearance, but on function its only average for similar spells.

But seriously? You're jealous of our own guild skill that exists for no other reason than to create a way for us to bring our familiars into town, something every other profession can do without extra effort? Illusions are dreadfully boring to learn and hardly useful once learned, not much to be jealous over. Most sorcerers don't even bother with them.

StrayRogue
08-07-2006, 01:49 PM
I think you seriously need to learn about how the mechanics of GS work, dickhead.

StrayRogue
08-07-2006, 01:52 PM
And no, I haven't played a cleric in well over 2 years.

crb
08-07-2006, 01:57 PM
So I didn't know how CM affected DS had changed since GS3, all my main characters are pures. Big fucking deal. It doesn't change how my proposal would work since I included the CM for manuever defense mostly.

StrayRogue
08-07-2006, 02:09 PM
Thats hardly the only error you've made, dumbass.

Asha
08-07-2006, 02:13 PM
Viril, where'd your petition against the changes go?
I wanted to look at all the people who promised they'd leave if they didn't get their way!

Bobmuhthol
08-07-2006, 02:20 PM
<<Search the forums for mentions of "Virilneus" in your posts, by far you mention my name more than any other user, whats that about? You've got issues.>>

You research how many times each member has posted anything with your name it. You've got worse issues.

<<many years ago I proposed a sorcerous bolt spell that is almost exactly like empathic assault.>>

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

El Burro
08-07-2006, 02:32 PM
Sorcs whine too much

Ignot
08-07-2006, 02:40 PM
two men enter...one man leave

crb
08-07-2006, 02:47 PM
Viril, where'd your petition against the changes go?
I wanted to look at all the people who promised they'd leave if they didn't get their way!
check archive.org



You research how many times each member has posted anything with your name it. You've got worse issues.

No, I don't need to search to know its true, the dude is obsessed.

StrayRogue
08-07-2006, 02:49 PM
check archive.org
No, I don't need to search to know its true, the dude is obsessed.

Surely the person who made the petition would have been the ONE person at least to carry through on it's threats?

Unless he was full of shit of course.

Bobmuhthol
08-07-2006, 02:53 PM
<<No, I don't need to search to know its true, the dude is obsessed.>>

I'd say you're more obsessed over how obsessed you think he is than he's obsessed over you.

Asha
08-07-2006, 02:57 PM
Surely the person who made the petition would have been the ONE person at least to carry through on it's threats?

Unless he was full of shit of course.
ZING!

crb
08-07-2006, 03:07 PM
Surely the person who made the petition would have been the ONE person at least to carry through on it's threats?

Unless he was full of shit of course.
You seem to be confused. The petition was successful, Simutronics changed their mind, they went with the level cap but no skill cap system I recommended. Why would I, or anyone else, leave when we got what we wanted?

We went over this recently in that anfelt thread, do you have short term memory problems?

Bobmuhthol
08-07-2006, 03:08 PM
Yeah, Simutronics works so hard to implement everything that you suggest. Please shut up.

crb
08-07-2006, 03:18 PM
Does the truth make Bob sad?

Bobmuhthol
08-07-2006, 03:28 PM
Your sense of self-worth is tremendously skewed. On that note, I wouldn't be very sad if someone skewered your head.

crb
08-07-2006, 03:30 PM
I just speak the truth Bob, maybe you don't like a world where things work out for me, but that doesn't mean such a world doesn't exist. The fact is Simutronics did change their experience system for GS4 and the system they ended up using is very similar to what I had proposed. They might not have changed their mind because of the petition, they might not have based the system off my proposal but instead came up with it independently. It doesn't really matter though because myself, and the other 500 people, got what we wanted and so had no reason to leave making the paltry attempts at insults a few posts up meaningless.

Bobmuhthol
08-07-2006, 03:37 PM
....

But that doesn't mean that you are at all important, yet you try so hard to convince people otherwise.

Drew
08-07-2006, 03:38 PM
I think it's a pretty cool idea.

StrayRogue
08-07-2006, 03:41 PM
Just really poorly designed.

crb
08-07-2006, 03:42 PM
....

But that doesn't mean that you are at all important, yet you try so hard to convince people otherwise.
Maybe when seen through the eyes of your bitterness, I'm not trying to be "important"

I'm active and vocal on development issues, but thats all I claim to be. In the end my opinion is just that of one player.

StrayRogue
08-07-2006, 03:42 PM
I imagine they didn't change anything, nor have they ever implemented anything because of you, retard.

StrayRogue
08-07-2006, 03:43 PM
Maybe when seen through the eyes of your bitterness, I'm not trying to be "important"

I'm active and vocal on development issues, but thats all I claim to be. In the end my opinion is just that of one player.

Yet, you don't understand basic mechanics, only play a high level sorcerer, yet continue to whine about issues you have no idea about.

Surely, you realize you're one of the most laughable people on the officials, in the game, on psinet and now here. If you don't, you need your head checking out.

Bobmuhthol
08-07-2006, 03:46 PM
Yeah, I am just way too bitter to look at this objectively. Don't listen to anything I have to say, for my views are jaded by hate!

crb
08-07-2006, 04:00 PM
You gotta learn StrayRogue that your opinion isn't the opinion of everyone. Just because you've got some sort of obsession with me doesn't mean everyone does.

Furthermore I don't really care what people think about me, so if you were hoping to hurt my feelings in saying I'm universally hated, sorry, it won't work.

To tell you the truth I was chatting on PSINET about you trying to figure out who your character is when you started obsessing about me in that anfelt thread and 5 or so people sent me private messages saying I should just ignore you because all you ever do is post bullshit and complain about other players.

Fuck, look at this thread. Finiswolf just reposted a spell proposal and you instantly make it into another personal attack thread against me. You need help, you and Bob both.

If you want to continue insulting me why don't you do everyone a favor and email the insults to me, then maybe people who want to comment on the spell proposal can do it. I promise to read all the emails and be oh so upset about them.

StrayRogue
08-07-2006, 04:02 PM
You gotta learn StrayRogue that your opinion isn't the opinion of everyone. Just because you've got some sort of obsession with me doesn't mean everyone does.




ROFL.

Head in the clouds.

Bobmuhthol
08-07-2006, 04:46 PM
Haha, I need help? You're a fucking moron.

FinisWolf
08-07-2006, 05:04 PM
Can you feel the love?

:shrug:

Finis

zhelas
08-07-2006, 05:05 PM
Who brought the refreshments?

Anebriated
08-07-2006, 05:07 PM
I miss the old PC smilies...

HarmNone
08-07-2006, 05:08 PM
:pizza: :2beers: :popcorn: