It's Cobbling Time

[Celephais]

Cobbling, The Great Leap Forward!


No longer will you craft only shoes and boots with the same old 7 materials. As of today you will be able to make shoes, boots and 37 additional types of footgear.

This footwear can be crafted from almost any hide or skin you are able to gather from a creature. Just bring your pelts to the local tanner, either near the furrier or, in Cysaegir, in the guildhall. Your footgear can be dyed and embellished with one of 12 possible ornament types, each of which can use a wide array of materials.

Now all of this creativity should not be forced to flower in a vacuum. You can use a group workshop for steps where a workshop is required. Many cobbling activities will not require a workshop at all, so cobble on the cobblestones of your favorite town! For the work that must be done in a workshop, two new workshops have opened, one in River's Rest and the other in Cysaegir.

All of these wonderful additions have come at a small cost. The guild masters have decided that cobblers must demonstrate a modicum of proficiency as they advance towards the secrets of fashionable footwear. Would be diamond-studded-leaper-skin-moccasin-makers must be prepared to serve an apprenticeship before dazzling every two-footed being in Elanthia. Seek out the local guildhall manager and ask him about joining to get started.

When you first enter the guild you will learn the basic pattern for shoes and then, as you gain skill, for boots, slippers and sandals. These four basic patterns are available in every guildhall. As you learn them, speak to the registrar to have them added to your pattern book. After learning these four basic styles you are deemed worthy to learn patterns for more styles of footwear and adornments, eventually rising to 24 additional patterns as a master. Footwear patterns will differ from guildhall to guildhall, reflecting regional tastes, so travel a little and see what's out there.

Your pattern book will be usable only by you. If you happen to lose it, you need to purchase a new book and visit the guildhalls. The patterns you have learned are there, registered to you, and can be replaced.

Cobblers, today, we stand at the threshold, of the future! With one foot in the dark ages of cobbling, we turn to face the rising sun of the footwear renaissance, and salute GM Bernt, author of these changes, with the other. Then we fall over, because you can't salute with your feet no matter how well shod you are.

Bravo GM Bernt!

https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=14&topic=6&message=229 .

As previously announced, existing cobbling ranks have been reduced to 40 percent of their previous level. For example, masters of the old cobbling system will start with 200 ranks. PWNT

[Latrinsorm]

Bernt rocks, even if his rockening is slightly delayed.

[Ilvane]

Yay!!! Can't wait to get home and get started. My little halfling had just about mastered it under the old system, so we'll just have to learn the rest..yay again!

[Stanley Burrell]

Bernt rocks

Jah.

FUCKIN' BW3RNT!!!!!1111

[Merzbow]

Shoes?

[Nilandia]

Cause I likes you guys and such, I was able to sneak into Plat and figure out the patterns and available materials.

It's also possible to tan skins to use for cobbling. I've been using rat pelts, since they're easiest to get and I'd get the best quality skin. I've used the fastest and cheapest process, oak, which costs 50 silvers a pelt and takes a week to cure. Next up is alum, which takes longer and costs more, followed by oil, which is the longest and most expensive.

You can find people to tan your pelts in the furriers in River's Rest (go steps) and in the Landing (go door), and in the cobbling shop itself in Cysaegir.

Landing Patterns

You scan through the book of patterns and note that it has patterns for the following types of footwear:

Embellishments:
Page 1. {optional item}-studded
Page 2. {optional item}-buttoned
Page 3. {item}-laced
Page 4. {item}-toed
Page 5. {optional item}-lined
Page 6. {optional item}-strapped

Shoes:
Page 7. shoes
Page 8. moccasins
Page 9. open-toed shoes
Page 10. round-toed shoes
Page 11. square-toed shoes
Page 12. high-heeled shoes
Page 13. spike-heeled shoes
Page 14. batts
Page 15. revelins

Boots:
Page 16. boots
Page 17. half-boots
Page 18. basans
Page 19. thigh-boots
Page 20. workboots
Page 21. riding boots

Slippers:
Page 22. slippers
Page 23. high chopines
Page 24. dancing slippers
Page 25. clogs
Page 26. scarpines

Sandals:
Page 27. sandals
Page 28. ankle-tied sandals
Page 29. calf-tied sandals
Page 30. crincs

Landing Materials

1. a tanned thrak hide 9. some light tanned leather
2. a tanned spotted leaper pelt 10. a length of knotted cord
3. a tanned black boar hide 11. a short cutting knife
4. a tanned white puma hide 12. a wedge of greyish white chalk
5. a tanned panther hide 13. a pair of rawhide laces
6. a tanned dark panther pelt 14. a set of silk cord laces
7. some heavy tanned leather 15. a small leather pouch
8. some medium tanned leather

River's Rest Patterns

You scan through the book of patterns and note that it has patterns for the following types of footwear:

Embellishments:
Page 1. {item}-inset
Page 2. {optional item}-buttoned
Page 3. {optional item}-buckled
Page 4. {optional item}-lined
Page 5. {optional item}-strapped
Page 6. {optional item}-fringed

Shoes:
Page 7. shoes
Page 8. moccasins
Page 9. round-toed shoes
Page 10. divit-toed shoes
Page 11. square-toed shoes
Page 12. low-heeled shoes
Page 13. high-heeled shoes
Page 14. brogues
Page 15. dancing shoes

Boots:
Page 16. boots
Page 17. ankle-boots
Page 18. buskins
Page 19. workboots
Page 20. riding boots
Page 21. wide-cuffed boots

Slippers:
Page 22. slippers
Page 23. pantofles
Page 24. clogs
Page 25. pinsons
Page 26. sabots

Sandals:
Page 27. sandals
Page 28. thick-strapped sandals
Page 29. high-laced sandals
Page 30. ankle-tied sandals

River's Rest Materials

Catalog
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. a tanned rat pelt 8. some medium tanned leather
2. a tanned troll hide 9. some light tanned leather
3. a tanned black panther pelt 10. a length of knotted cord
4. a tanned antelope hide 11. a short cutting knife
5. a tanned rattlesnake skin 12. a wedge of greyish white chalk
6. a tanned crocodile hide 13. a small leather pouch
7. some heavy tanned leather 14. a set of waxed sinew laces

Cysaegir Patterns

You scan through the book of patterns and note that it has patterns for the following types of footwear:

Embellishments:
Page 1. {optional item}-buttoned
Page 2. {item}-laced
Page 3. {optional item}-beaded
Page 4. {optional item}-trimmed
Page 5. {optional item}-capped
Page 6. {optional item}-fringed

Shoes:
Page 7. shoes
Page 8. moccasins
Page 9. open-toed shoes
Page 10. curly-toed shoes
Page 11. square-toed shoes
Page 12. low-heeled shoes
Page 13. high shoes
Page 14. pattens
Page 15. dancing shoes

Boots:
Page 16. boots
Page 17. ankle-boots
Page 18. half-boots
Page 19. buskins
Page 20. thigh-boots
Page 21. climbing boots

Slippers:
Page 22. slippers
Page 23. low chopines
Page 24. dancing slippers
Page 25. moyles
Page 26. sabots

Sandals:
Page 27. sandals
Page 28. thonged sandals
Page 29. high-laced sandals
Page 30. calf-tied sandals

Cysaegir Materials

Catalog
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1. a tanned goat skin 8. some medium tanned leather
2. a tanned sheep skin 9. some light tanned leather
3. a tanned black boar hide 10. a length of knotted cord
4. a tanned leopard skin 11. a short cutting knife
5. a tanned warthog hide 12. a wedge of greyish white chalk
6. a tanned tawny brindlecat hide 13. a set of braided cotton laces
7. some heavy tanned leather 14. a small leather pouch

Gretchen

[Numbers]

If someone writes a good script for this, please post it.

[Bobmuhthol]

Fucking pantofles. Good job not speaking French at all, Bernt.

[Nilandia]

It's been brought up on the officials, Bob.

Gretchen

[Nilandia]

Warehouses are open!

Least the one in the Landing is!

Gretchen

[Sean of the Thread]

FUCKING yippee!!!!fucking DOOOO!

[FinisWolf]

Ok, where is Mules cobbling shop?

Sure, I understand Wehnimers, its the main town in Elanth.

Guess, I get Cysaegir as well. A way to get folks to go there.

And, of course the GM's love child town Rivers Rest would get one.

... But I must ask, why not just drop the shops in each starter town at least? :shrug:

Finis

[Bobmuhthol]

There isn't one. Landing, River's Rest, Cysaegir.

[FinisWolf]

Wow Bob, if you hadn't told me, I would have never known. Thanks.

Finis

[Ilvane]

They need one in Mule..grr.

Angela

[Numbers]

Why would they have one in Mule? It's a halfling city. Halflings don't wear shoes.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

They need a pointy-toed pattern. :(

[Nilandia]

Requested pointy-toed shoes and slippers, along with poulaines, on the official boards.

Gretchen

[Stanley Burrell]

I am so re-opening my third world, 1-silver-per-hour Halfling sweatshop for my new brand name logo gak fur half-boots.

Oh yeah.

[Ilvane]

My halfling is a cobbler, damn it!

I have to remind the GM's that Mule exists.:(

Angela

[FinisWolf]

Just sharing info that some of you that do not visit the officials may like to know:
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Re: Metal plates? · on 8/5/2006 8:36:26 AM 315


Reply
I strongly encourage you to start giving pelts to the tanner to make your own leathers. She does (crude) tanning for only 50 silvers/pelt, so you'll save a boatload of coins.
As a handy convenience, you can give her bundles of pelts, for which she'll give you a single receipt. Saves room in your locker.
You will need some very high quality leather to advance past the 50th, 100th, 150th and 200th ranks, so I'd also suggest you find someone who can skin magnificent pelts and have the tanner use the oil tanning process on those. The resulting leather will be of higher quality than anything you can buy at the merchant.
Cheers,
GM Bernt

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Re: Making shoes · on 8/5/2006 8:37:43 AM 316


Reply
>My book currently contains moccasins and one adornment, but not shoes. I can't measure out shoes without picking a pattern, and I have no non-moccasin shoe patterns to pick in my book.
That's a bug. Please shoot me a note about this so I can track you down. Make sure you tell me if you're in Plat or Prime! I found this bug in Plat earlier and fixed it (I thought) so it shouldn't be happening new.
Cheers,
GM Bernt

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Re: Making shoes · on 8/5/2006 8:38:33 AM 317


Reply
>The foreman won't accept anything except plain old shoes for rank, and the lass won't add shoes to my book, claiming the foreman should have shown me how to make them. So how do I go about making a plain old pair of shoes?
You need to ASK [registrar] ABOUT PATTERN, not ASK [registrar] ABOUT LEARN to get a copy of primary patterns into your book.
Cheers,
GM Bernt

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Re: Metal plates? · on 8/5/2006 11:15:52 AM 318


Reply
>I'm failing to see metal plates in the cobbling supply shop. All sorts of leather, some chalk, laces, a cord, a knife, a pouch.... no plates?! :(
If I were looking for detailed metalwork, I'd be looking in a different shop.
Cheers,
GM Bernt

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In reference to Gretchen's pointy toe shoe request:
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Re: Shoe Pattern Request · on 8/5/2006 3:00:01 PM 320


Reply
The great thing about the new cobbling system is that I can add things like this pretty easily. I'll make this addition sometime soon.
Likewise, please feel free to make additional suggestions!
Cheers,
GM Bernt


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Re: Shoe Pattern Request · on 8/5/2006 3:20:31 PM 321


Reply
OK, I've added "poulaines" (a shoe) and "pointy-toed slippers" in Cysaegir.
Cheers,
GM Bernt

----
Finis

[StrayRogue]

Tell him to rewrite the messaging. Some of it shoddy and full of mistakes.

[Nilandia]

Only problem messaging I've seen was the one where it flips a page in your pattern book. I'll be bugging it soon, if I'm in the mood.

Gretchen, bugtesting her script

[Nilandia]

Found "a pair of plates" that can be customized for metal in the Landing weapons shop. I'll be checking Cysaegir in a few minutes and River's Rest when the workshop rental expires.

Gretchen

[FinisWolf]

More sharing of info:

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Re: Materials Request · on 8/5/2006 10:31:00 PM 345


Reply
GM Elnath made the same suggestion to me a couple nights ago. Fabric is entirely simple to transform into cobbling material. I'll need to consider whether that should be available all the time, or whether it's best reserved for special merchants.
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Re: Small Issue Renting Workshop · on 8/5/2006 10:32:18 PM 346


Reply
>After asking about renting a workshop and answering yes, I expected to see a message telling me that I had succsfully rented a workshop.
A little bug I accidentally introduced when addressing another problem. Should be fixed now.
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Re: Metal plates? · on 8/5/2006 10:33:51 PM 347


Reply
>So I am assuming after the 200th rank we wont need those?
After 200th rank, you are free to do what you will. If you want to make really good shoes, though, you'll want to start with really good material.
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Re: Metal Plates · on 8/5/2006 10:34:39 PM 348


Reply
I honestly had forgotten that there was a weapon shop in Cysaegir. I'll probably move the plates from Ta'Illistim to Cysaegir.
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Re: Rental Timer? · on 8/5/2006 10:35:16 PM 349


Reply
>any chance we could get rental timers in the workshops to know how much more time we have to work?
Good idea. I'll add it to my to-do list.
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Re: Metal plates? · on 8/5/2006 10:37:10 PM 350


Reply
>Where does the stuff sold in the shops rank? So far I am at 70 so I would guess it is good enough to learn past 50
The best material sold is a notch short of the best possible. You can make it past the skill checks with the off-the-rack material, but you'll have higher odds of doing so with the better leather. (In case you haven't noticed, there are a couple of points along the way where the shoe quality can be affected by some luck in the manufacture.)
Cheers,
GM Bernt
----

Must be one helluva good script Gretchen! Congrats on the 300 ranks already!

Finis

[Drew]

Stop! Cobble time!

[Amaron]

if someone was already mastered in cobbling before the changes they only got dropped from 500 ranks to 300 ranks... so she didn't script, she already had them.

J

[Bobmuhthol]

Except that you get dropped to 200 ranks, not 300. She scripted.

[FinisWolf]

Not to mention:


Gretchen, bugtesting her script

Finis

[Bobmuhthol]

On that note, I'd really appreciate a complete script. I don't code like I used to (:(:(:() so I've just been using a checkless command input script that works less than 100% of the time. A comprehensive script would be omglol.

[Nilandia]

Yes, I started at 200 ranks and I've scripted up to 300. It's been interesting for me, though, to watch how the quality has increased and see the different messaging.

Most recent new messaging uncovered (at rank 308): Your hand reaches out and collects the proper needle as you gracefully slip the thread through the needle's eye. There was a time when even these simple tasks were baffling. You now realize you could easily teach this craft.

I'm working on a script that will make shoes with soles, will work with the different failure messages and can be used to build any type of pattern, sans ornamentation. Thus far, it's been successful. If guys could post the different failure messages and what happens because of it (chalk on the floor, need to re-chalk the leather, etc), I'll work them into the script.

Gretchen

[Edited to correct the rank count. Was using the wrong search string that inflated the number.]

[Amaron]

Gretchen I was sending charna my failures today... drop her or me an IM tonight

hugs J

thiefwithheart

[Nilandia]

So people know the error messages I've gotten already, here are the ones I have and have attempted to work into the script. I dunno if they're all bug-free, though, since the failure messaging is somewhat rare for my character.

You study the pattern for a pair of boots As you study the pattern, a current of air flips the page over in your book of patterns, interrupting your work.

You study the pattern for a pair of boots Your attention wanders as you attempt to copy the pattern, and when you look down at the marks you have made on some heavy tanned leather, you realize that you will need to try again.

You study the pattern for a pair of boots As you attempt to scribe the pattern onto some heavy tanned leather, the chalk slips awkwardly from your hand, chipping off some pieces as it falls to the floor.

You study the pattern for a pair of boots As you attempt to scribe the pattern onto some heavy tanned leather, the chalk slips awkwardly from your hand, chipping off some pieces as it falls to the floor. The remaining stump of greyish white chalk crumbles into useless dust.

As you cut along the measured marks on the surface of the hide you misread your chalk marks and cut a piece that is entirely too small, ruining the thrak hide. With a sigh, you remove it from the worktable and discard it.

As you set to cutting the hide, you blink in confusion at its surface. The neat indents you had made measuring it blur into the natural grain. You had best measure the hide again.

You start to cut your hide, but stop quickly after you realize that there are no measurements on its surface. No matter how good a a cobbler you are, you still have to take measurements.

Gretchen

[Latrinsorm]

If I may make a recommendation, it's easier to just do a "l <material>" and check for the messaging for having been patterned and having been measured (and obviously the one for the material not being there at all).

[Nilandia]

Hrm. I'll have to look into that possibility.

Thanks for the thought, Latrin.

Gretchen

[Bobmuhthol]

I'm at 302 ranks. Not looking forward to the next 198 too much.

[Ilvane]

It's tedious. The RT is really long too, but hopefully it will be worth it when it's done.

Angela

[FinisWolf]

It's tedious. The RT is really long too, but hopefully it will be worth it when it's done.

Angela

Anyone figure out what exactly can be done OUT of the workshops? So they can be hasted for that part? (Assuming that the cobbling workshops are like the forging workshops.)

Finis

[Bobmuhthol]

You can haste in the workshops. You just can't have anyone in there with you, so it sucks if you're not a wizard.

Alternatively, both the wizard and cobbler can rent out the public workshop, but I've found that it sucks doing that because of the multiple worktables and forms. It just gets annoying.

[Nilandia]

I believe that putting the pattern on the leather, measuring and cutting can be done outside the workshop.

As a side note, a new line has appeared on the hides and leathers that you've been working on. Dunno if it's related to skill ranks or not (currently just past 350 ranks).

The leather has been carefully prepared to be used for creating soles for quality footwear. The leather looks to be your handiwork. Close examination shows that the tanned leather has been carefully measured and precisely cut as the soles for a pair of boots. With a little hard work and a lot of skill this leather could be cobbled into footwear.

Gretchen

[Nilandia]

As another, amusing side note, I've burned through 2 XXX for the week and gained a level with all the work from cobbling.

Gretchen

[Nilandia]

And for the third post in a row, I've had two fumble messages that the script I'm working on was able to handle: the one where your attention wanders and the one where your measurements blur with the grain of the leather.

I'm going to look into a method for the script to catch what step a person's on and continue the process from there.

Gretchen

[FinisWolf]

More shared GM posts from the officials:

====


Cobbling bugs -- how to report &#183; on 8/7/2006 8:13:58 AM 398


Reply
Please use the BUG or BUGITEM command when you find a problem with cobbling. While I'll do my best to keep up with bugs posted on the boards, too, BUG/BUGITEM provides me tracking tools to let me check off each bug as I correct it -- which is very helpful. It also lets me toss experience rewards your way when you're the first to report a bug.
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Re: Materials Request &#183; on 8/7/2006 8:18:17 AM 399


Reply
>can we dye the hide so that it turns out to be something along the lines of "some exquisite red leather pointy-toed slippers" or whatever? Because.. I'm not a fan of the whole, "some red gak hide pointy-toed slippers" or insert whatever animal hide here shoes.
Yes. As you gain skill, you'll be able to manipulate the shoe's final appearance more exactly. I think it's possible to create "some,,shoes" though I may not have let you get quite that brief. Certainly "some exquisite red leather pointy-toed slippers" is possible. Even the "leather" is optional.
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Re: Location, other problem &#183; on 8/7/2006 8:32:47 AM 400


Reply
>Apparently it started to try to cut my armor leather, not the leather on the worktable, and it didn't allow me to say cut leather with knife on worktable. So...I guess I need to remove my leather before I cobble. Unless there's a way to differentiate.
Fixing this on my side would not be easy. The simplest fix would be to take off and stow your armor. The second simplest fix is for you to specify an adjective ("cut tanned leather") or to give a valid path to the leather ("cut leather on worktable"). You used "cut leather with knife on worktable", which doesn't work since "on worktable" is applied to "knife", not to "leather".
Cheers,
GM Bernt
====

Re: Location, other problem &#183; on 8/7/2006 8:34:27 AM 401


Reply
>My character doesn't have the lacing pattern, but was able to put laces on. It's put on the fourth join, just before the last to finish up.
Hmmm, there's supposed to be a check to prevent that. Thanks for the heads-up.
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Re: Pattern Marking issue. &#183; on 8/7/2006 8:41:39 AM 402


Reply
>I think the group workshop still needs a little help, or a least a janitor. :)
Agreed. Sorry, this was a late-ish addition to the system and (unsurprisingly) it didn't get stress-tested in Plat. I will make two changes, though I can't promise when I'll get them rolled in (this week, I hope!)
1. Finding pelts: the pattern-gaze needs to scan through pelts on worktables/forms to find the one that is yours. The other commands let you specify where your stuff is ("cut leather on hickory worktable"), but I'll probably use the same "find my pelt" code in those, too.
2. Add a CLEAN [form/worktable] command: allows you to sweep away stuff on a workbench or form that belongs to a character who is not around. There's already an automatic janitor for private workshops. BTW, if you lose something in a private workshop, place an ASSIST. The janitor dumps all the stuff into a lost-and-fox box for the workshop that any GM can access.
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Re: Location, other problem &#183; on 8/7/2006 8:49:41 AM 403


Reply
>Yep, that's a fumble message.
Yep, I've added fumble opportunities at several points in the process. Why? AFK scripters.
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Re: Question on making leathers... &#183; on 8/7/2006 9:01:08 AM 405


Reply
Here are the rules for what the tanner will accept:
General leather (soles, uppers or trim):
any skin, pelt, hide or sheepskin EXCEPT those from goblins, kobolds, orc, specters, wights, dirges and hisskra ('animal' skins, excluding somewhat sentient creatures)
Trim only:
any fur, tail, mane, feathers, claw, talon, fang, knuckle or nail
Cheers,
GM Bernt
====

Re: Question on making leathers... &#183; on 8/7/2006 9:32:24 AM 408


Reply
>Just finshed getting a cloak for a magnificent kobold skins , now yea say they wont except them ....
I didn't know there were any magnificent kobolds!
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Re: Curing Pelts &#183; on 8/7/2006 3:10:58 PM 425


Reply
>Why does this take so long?
This was a design choice I made (and was affirmed by Ozias). Realistically, it takes days, not hours, to take a raw pelt and produce leather, so the question I had to decide was, how many days?
Except for the very best leather (magnificent pelt oil-tanned), it is a tradeoff between money and time, if all you are doing is making pelts with which to practice. If you're just looking for practice leathers, you can buy these in unlimited quantities, instantaneously, at the supply shop.
I am considering whether to offer a "rush" option, at increased cost. I may even soften up and shorten the waits for the standard costs, since I would prefer to encourage you all to use character-skinned pelts. Some day we might even introduce leather-working as a skill and, possibly, a tanning subskill that would make the NPC tanner less relevant.
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Re: Location, other problem &#183; on 8/7/2006 5:14:57 PM 432


Reply
I agree that it's impossible to prevent a fully automated script, and therefore it's not possible to prevent completely successful AFK scripting (except by spot-checking by a live GM, which I know various GMs do). My (perhaps vain) hope is that increasing the complexity of the script required will encourage more people to use a simple script but stay at the keyboard to monitor it.
A reminder, folks -- now that AG skills grant experience, AFK scripting while doing these tasks is being more closely monitored; ranks and experience will be stripped if you are caught AFK. So, please don't AFK script.
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Status update &#183; on 8/7/2006 5:16:30 PM 434


Reply
I think at this point I've taken care of all the reported bugs, typos, etc. that I've heard about, save for one that I'll squish tonight. My apologies that these made it into the system!
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Re: Ranks after skill check? &#183; on 8/7/2006 5:19:24 PM 435


Reply
>I just started out and I can only hold 4 so far (currently at 160 ranks). Shoes (0-50 ranks), boots (50-100), slippers (100-150) and sandals (150-200). I hear that you can pickup new patterns as you progress. I was also told that once you master you can carry all 24 of them.
28 -- masters know the basic 4 + 24 optional.
If you were a master of cobbling before, then you started the new system with 200 ranks. You should be able to get the patterns for shoes, boots, slippers and sandals (after you go to the foreman and ASK ABOUT JOIN). Once you've gotten a single extra rank (201 ranks), you will be able to claim your first advanced pattern.
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Re: Groups in Workshops &#183; on 8/7/2006 6:18:19 PM 443


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>Apparently Bernt's allowed groups to be taken into the normal workshops. I was able to get a member of my group into my workshop successfully, but it's not a group workshop.
Yes, you can bring your group into a private workshop now. You cannot take a group into the group workshop (besides those who have also paid their workshop fee).
>Also noticed a number of typo cleanings. Nicely done, Bernt!
Thanks!
Cheers,
GM Bernt
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Re: Curing Pelts &#183; on 8/7/2006 6:19:30 PM 445


Reply
Level of critter and quality of pelt are completely unrelated.
Cheers,
GM Bernt
====

Re: Gaining ranks &#183; on 8/7/2006 8:45:50 PM 454


Reply
You'll notice that there is one rank check for each item you add to a shoe. As has been pointed out already, these come at the 2d join (if you add a sole), the 4th join (if you add ornamentation), and the 5th join (always). I didn't want to walk into the problem that fletching has, where people just do the first couple of steps and then toss away the incomplete shaft. Seems to me, if you never finish making an arrow (or a shoe), you're unlikely to learn as much about the craft as taking a project all the way to the end.
BTW, the odds of getting a rank are a little more lenient than forging. A little. And it contains an extra bit of randomness, so you'll be very hard-pressed to figure out how to compactify the results into a spreadsheet.
Cheers,
GM Bernt
====

...Shared ...

Finis

[Stanley Burrell]

What kind of pelts is cobbling limited to?

Could I use dark shambler eyeballs?

Eyeball boots ftf'ingw.

[FinisWolf]

More GM responses to cobbling:

====

Re: Another Typo &#183; on 8/8/2006 12:19:17 AM 458


Reply
> I am amazed at how many typos and grammar errors I have seen in this system! Seeing that it has gone through QC and been tested in Plat, I'm even more shocked that they managed to slip by.
Proof that stuff happens
Seablade and Seablaede
The Ashrim

====

Re: Another Typo &#183; on 8/8/2006 8:43:32 AM 465


Reply
>Also proof that 50 people can read the same line and only the 51st will notice there is a typo. I've had a typo in an alteration for months before I even noticed it was there, and it was someone else who pointed it out to me. :)
We occasionally see typo reports for systems that have been deployed for over a decade. It's sometimes very hard to spot some of these in code - for example, the double "a" problems (2 separate instances) were the result of code like this:
print "lots of text goes here before we get to a"
print " a stopping point over on this line of code."
When you're QCing 30k lines of code, it's pretty easy to miss the doubled article. In any case, of nearly equal importance is the speed with which these little typos are cleared up. Think of typos as easy ways to get some extra experience!
Cheers,
GM Bernt

====

Re: Possible Problem with Highly Skilled Cobbling &#183; on 8/8/2006 8:48:03 AM 466


Reply
If you use StormFront (at least for this purpose), the drop-down menu for shoes has a Cobbling sub-menu that shows all the commands accessible to you at your current skill. They are:
Rank 1: rub, cover, push, pull, open, close
Rank 220: slap
Rank 290: flip, engrave
Rank 360: tap
Rank 430: scratch
Rank 500: whisper
Cheers,
GM Bernt

====

That's it for now.

Finis

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Any word on a comprehensive cobbling script?

[Jolena]

I believe Gretchen is working on one, complete with messaging for failure and ranks etc. I just expect it will take a bit.

[Numbers]

The roundtimes are waaaay too long. It'd be more acceptable if you could gain ranks from drawing/measuring/cutting the leathers/hides, but I believe you can only get ranks from the joining process. As it is, half of the time spent cobbling is a gainless timesink.

Also, the wait time to get skins cured is absurdly long. Bernt posted that he did that to make it more realistic. Realism does not a fun game make.

"Less tedium, more fun."

[Bobmuhthol]

Bernt also posted that the reason you have to go through all the other shit to get to a rank check is so that people are encouraged to make a finished product instead of making all hammer-handles with crafting or only cutting and nocking with fletching.

It's a good idea, but it really does take a long time. Cobbling is now probably harder to master than fletching.

[Numbers]

Yeah, I caught Bernt's post about that, and while I understood his logic and reasoning, it's still a pain in the ass. I don't know if I was just spoiled by fletching (which is far more useful than cobbling, in my opinion), but it would be nice if all the prep work time was cut by at least half, if not more.

During my initial (and probably only) attempt at cobbling, it took me around 90 to 120 minutes to make 10 pairs of boots. I'd say that 3/4's of that time was spent doing the prep work that doesn't give ranks at all.

[Bobmuhthol]

Yeah, my problem with it is that the gaze pattern step never existed anymore, and measuring and cutting were instant in the old system. Now you have to gaze, measure, and cut for both the soles and the uppers. That used to take no time at all, now it's a minimum of like 3 minutes if you're lucky. Join RT used to go down with ranks, I have seen no evidence of that happening. 5 joins, 5 seconds a piece at master in the old system was the only RT. Now it is a substantial amount of time.

As far as the 7-14 day tanning time... that's just stupid.

[Bobmuhthol]

7 ranks away from being able to tap my shoes!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!!!!

[Nilandia]

For the record, tap allows the cobbler to switch the shoes from a long description to a show description.

Gretchen, 7 ranks from being able to scratch her shoes!

[Nilandia]

I've been working on a script, yes, but it still has bugs in it. I've had to make a couple adjustments to it just today for some things I hadn't anticipated.

After that, I'll add in a function where it can check which step you're on in the process and go from there and make it a generic script where you can input variables for material, pattern and the like and it'll go from there.

The script generally works well, but it's not to the level where I'd be comfortable giving it out.

Gretchen

[Beguiler]

Okay, I give up, anyone able to give me some pointers on where there might be worktables or tables that you can put stuff on to work in the Landing Area, in fact in any or all of the three areas?

[Latrinsorm]

The Landing cobbling warehouse is on the East Side, due east from the bridge in the second warehouse you'll see.

[Beguiler]

Oh, that I know, but the first few steps of the process don't have to be done in the warehouse, can be done at any table you can set something down on. That's what I'm kind of looking for....

[Nilandia]

Continuing to work on the script and bugtesting as I go. Thus far, I have 5 fumbles successfully tested that the script will work through. Have 2 that need bugtesting yet and there may be others that I don't know of yet.

Beyond that, I need to write up the segment that will pick up your place and continue, then make it generic for everyone to use.

Once those two are written and successfully tested, I'll post the script as it stands for everyone to use. There will be the possibility of the script not catching all scenarios, such as strings of multiple fumbles, but it will give you something to work with.

Gretchen, 439 ranks and counting

[FinisWolf]

Go Gretchen GOOOoooooo!!!!11!

Finis

[Nilandia]

:lol:

I have no idea why I'm motoring through these ranks. I think some part of me wants to be the first to master. In any event, it's been great fun to do the work and see all the different messaging permutations and possible adjectives.

For that matter, the level of possible customization for the shoes is simply staggering. I can't wait to master, choose my patterns and make a whole mess of shoes for my own use or others, not to mention offer services to make shoes to order for other people.

For those that aren't aware, masters are able to make a total of 28 types of shoes. They're able to make them out of a lot of types of critter skins (and possibly other materials, even maybe fabrics from the shop in Solhaven, depending on whether a GM wants to make stuff for the system), and they can change the appearance of the individual pair of shoes in a myriad of different ways, not least of which is choosing the specific quality adjective, even if it's to make it truly ugly.

They can engrave their personal hallmark on their shoes as well as engrave the name of the person they measured to create the shoes on the shoes themselves. The shoes are scripted for the person the shoes were measured for, and masters' shoes are not only pocketed, but can be opened or closed.

Anyway, enough rambling. It's pretty clear that I really love this system.

Gretchen

[StrayRogue]

Why oh why did the smegging giftbox item for rogues have to be boots?

[Drew]

Can you make "black leather riding boots"?

Because if not the system is completely worthless!

[Nilandia]

Riding boots are one of the patterns available, and dyes are usable to color the shoes. It may well be possible to make black leather riding boots.

Gretchen

[FinisWolf]

Drew, point out the horse you are going to ride.

:duck:

Finis

[StrayRogue]

Well Atheana has just come back...

[FinisWolf]

Well Atheana has just come back...

:rofl:

On another note ...

-------------------

More Bernt Posts:

====

Re: Pocketing · on 8/8/2006 8:28:47 PM 484


Reply

>Can the boots made be only worn by the character they were measure for? IE Can I make boots for my other characters in the same account (since they can technically never actually meet in game...)?

Cobbled items that are made-to-measure have a little, extra message when worn or removed. Also, ENGRAVE puts the name of the person measured into the cobbled item. If you are a vain workman, you can make shoes to your measure and engrave them with your name. Or you can measure your client, and they will have their name engraved and the little extra-comfort message.

Cheers,
GM Bernt
====

Re: Cobbling and citizenship · on 8/8/2006 8:29:51 PM 485


Reply

>heh..my little one doesn't have citizenship, but has bought a TON of items from this cobbling shop. Do the items count towards citizenship and if not, can they? THANKS! ;)

I'm almost certain that the shop adds to local citizenship in the same way as buying from the local weaponry, herb shop, etc. would.

Cheers,
GM Bernt
====

Re: Pocketing · on 8/8/2006 8:31:18 PM 486


Reply

>Bernt, could it be an option--possibly at some degree of skill?--to have cobbled footwear restricted to the race measured for?

Well...maybe. It has not been our general practice to have race-specific (or even size-specific) clothing. I'll discuss with Ozias.

Cheers,
GM Bernt

====

Thats it for now.

Finis

[Nilandia]

Pbbst, Finis! I posted the script messaging for people who wear shoes that's made for them, too! ;)

You slip a pair of attractive boots onto your feet. A perfect fit!
You slip a pair of attractive boots off your feet. They were so comfortable, you hardly notice the difference.
(Character) slips a pair of attractive boots onto his feet. They appear to fit perfectly.
(Character) takes a pair of attractive boots off his feet.

Gretchen

[Ilvane]

Gretchen is going to wait until she masters before she gives out her script...she just wants to beat everyone!!!! :-P

Angela

[Stanley Burrell]

So are eyeball/any other skinnable item boots able to totally be cobbled up, er?

[Nilandia]

Haven't tried using eyeballs, Stanley, but I'd tend to doubt it.

And Angie, you can just hush, girl. :D I got one of the two fumbles successfully tested today, and since the other one that isn't fully tested relies on the one that just cleared, I'm pretty comfortable that it will work as well.

On to designing the next part.

Gretchen, 447 ranks and counting

[FinisWolf]

Pbbst, Finis! I posted the script messaging for people who wear shoes that's made for them, too! ;)

Gretchen

Is this my second hint to stop posting the GM responses? First Drew, and now Gretchen?

If so, no worries, I will cease and desist.

Finis

[Nilandia]

Not saying you should stop at all! Was just teasing that I posted something useful and it didn't make it in your compilations. :D

Gretchen

[Ilvane]

You know I'm just kidding..I'm just jealous I'm not getting it done nearly as fast..

[Sean of the Thread]

You guys using scripts yet?

[Nilandia]

Heh. Had a rudimentary script either the first or second day.

In other news, the last fumble was successfully tested. Working on the rest of the script soon as I get the time.

Note on the script, however, it will not run for more supplies, but merely keep you going. I find that if I stock up on 25 uppers, 25 soles and 5 bits of chalk, I'm good to go for the full 2 hours even if I have a wizard keeping me perpetually hasted.

Gretchen

[FinisWolf]

Not saying you should stop at all! Was just teasing that I posted something useful and it didn't make it in your compilations. :D

Gretchen

Oops, sorry. I only read red. :shrug: Makes sifting alot easier, and it is almost like getting info from the horses mouth.

Finis

[Latrinsorm]

You guys using scripts yet?Bob's using mine. I have to work for the Man (and wait for stupid tanning) though, so I can't pwnpwn the ranks out. :(

[Nilandia]

Eh, I just decided to sod it and post the script. It does not have the portion where it checks what step you're on, but it is a generic that's easily tailored to what you're working with. It will start at the beginning, make a pair of shoes and go back to the beginning, so it'll keep working unless it hangs up or you tell it to stop.

The only problems I've been having is that every so often (about once per 2 hours at the most) it will get hung up because of lag and/or roundtime. If waiting will not fix it (failsafes have been coded to try to catch such instances, but it's not always successful), merely entering the command that the script had entered and got caught in RT will unstick it.

Other than that, the script is pretty bug-free. I've been running it a number of hours now with no problems. There may be more fumble messages that I don't have, of course.

In the script, all that's needed is to replace information in the parentheses. For example, replace (soles material) with the material used as soles.

Of course, my only experience with cobbling this time around is that from rank 200 on, so I may have missed some joining messages. At any rate, those who know about scripting should be able to figure out a quite fix. If not, send me the details of what step it got caught on and the message you got where it hung up and I'll see what I can do.

Gretchen

[Amaron]

I am having a hard time making it work with my lil gal starting out. It hangs up after marking the first time.

J

[Amaron]

Oh I got here and then it stopped.


[Script Cobbling is running, Esc to cancel, Shift-Esc to pause]
>get my hide
>put my hide on worktable
>get my patterns
>flip patterns 1
>get my chalk
You remove a tanned thrak hide from in your damask pouch.
>
You put a tanned thrak hide on a sturdy oak worktable.
>gaze my pattern
You remove a black leather book of patterns from in your deep black cloak.
>
You flip through the book of patterns to page 1, which contains the pattern for a pair of shoes.
>
You remove a wedge of greyish white chalk from in your deep black cloak.
>
You study the pattern for a pair of shoes and carefully use your greyish white chalk to trace the pieces for the upper onto a tanned thrak hide you placed on a sturdy oak worktable.
Roundtime: 44 sec.
R>stow my patterns
You put a black leather book of patterns in your deep black cloak.

[Nilandia]

Can you post the sections of the script labeled Patternhide, Stowpatternshide and Measurehide?

The generic sections appear as follows:

Patternhide:
pause
put stow my patterns
match stowpatternshide You put (patterns book description) in your
match stowpatternshidewait ...wait
matchwait

Stowpatternshide:
put stow my chalk

Measurehide:
put get my cord
put measure (uppers material) on worktable with my cord
pause
put stow my cord
match stowcordhide You put a length of knotted cord in your
match stowcordhidewait ...wait
matchwait

Gretchen

[Nilandia]

Woohoo! Finally!

In the skill of cobbling, you are a master.

Gretchen

[FinisWolf]

CONGRATS GRETCHEN!!!

Finis

[Nilandia]

Thanks, Finis!

By the by, I took a pair of boots for a spin through the lists of adjectives to see what all is available. There may be more available in a higher quality grouping, but I have not found it that I am aware.

The lists are given in the groupings I have found them, starting with the best quality.

Group 1
0 resplendent
1 dazzling
2 bewitching
3 enchanting
4 luxurious
5 adorable
6 distinguished
7 refined
8 superior
9 gorgeous
10 elegant
11 first-rate

Group 2
0 smart-looking
1 splendid
2 showy
3 dashing
4 gaudy
5 polished
6 courtly
7 stylish
8 fashionable
9 charming
10 delightful
11 lovely

Group 3
0 good-looking
1 well-favored
2 well-made
3 well-formed
4 shapely
5 tolerable
6 dapper
7 admirable
8 comely
9 showy
10 jaunty
11 natty

Group 4
0 good
1 respectable
2 acceptable
3 modest
4 quite fair
5 decent
6 pretty good
7 rather good
8 serviceable
9 nicely made
10 fine looking
11 attractive

Group 5
0 ordinary
1 mediocre
2 average
3 sound
4 common
5 commonplace
6 fair
7 passable
8 tolerable
9 adequate
10 admissible
11 second-rate

Group 6
0 imperfect
1 faulty
2 unsound
3 warped
4 uneven
5 mismatched
6 flimsy
7 middling
8 truly ordinary
9 truly mediocre
10 barely tolerable
11 incomplete

Group 7
0 third-rate
1 very inferior
2 inadequate
3 truly shabby
4 very crude
5 poorly made
6 poor looking
7 crude
8 shabby looking
9 inferior
10 defective
11 deficient

Group 8
0 truly ugly
1 poorly made
2 horribly made
3 terribly made
4 horribly disfigured
5 incredibly misshapen
6 scrubby looking
7 pitiful
8 really ugly
9 malformed
10 truly crude
11 terribly made

Group 9
0 truly ugly
1 poorly made
2 horribly made
3 terribly made
4 horribly disfigured
5 incredibly misshapen
6 scrubby looking
7 pitiful
8 really ugly
9 malformed
10 truly crude
11 terribly made

As you can see, the last two groups appear to repeat. That is not a typo, but how things appeared when I went through them.

Given I also have backroom access in the Landing cobbling workshop, I was also able to find the available dye colors.

1. silvery
2. white
3. ivory
4. ecru
5. yellow
6. pale green
7. celadon
8. viridian
9. emerald
10. turquoise
11. cerulean
12. blue
13. indigo
14. sapphire
15. cobalt
16. violet
17. lavender
18. amethyst
19. purple
20. plum
21. magenta
22. claret
23. crimson
24. garnet
25. scarlet
26. red
27. vermilion
28. wine
29. burgundy
30. peach
31. russet
32. brown
33. umber
34. black
35. pink
36. blush
37. grey
38. dark
39. dusky
40. pearly

Enjoy!

Gretchen

[Beguiler]

Gretchen,

If you've used the dyes, could you give a brief look at how it works? I seem to be doing things wrong, but my logs are home and I am not..<grin>


242 ranks and counting....<pouts>

[Nilandia]

I'll have a look to see what I can come up with. I was able to get another set of adjectives from working through the problem. These are of greater quality than the Group 1 list given earlier.

Group 0
wondrous
incredible
marvelous
exquisite
astonishing
astounding
striking
remarkable
wonderful
magnificent
splendid
superb

Gretchen

[Bobmuhthol]

You have splendid listed in group 2 and 12 adjectives listed in group 0. That seems to go against the pattern.

[Nilandia]

Seems to be, but I copied and pasted it straight from the game window.

Gretchen

[Nilandia]

Alright, got it. You need to pour the dye on the uppers material before doing any joining.

>get my dye
You remove a small vial of wine dye from in your red wool greatcloak.
>get pelt on work
You remove a tanned rat pelt from on a sturdy oak worktable.
>pour dye on my pelt
You carefully pour some of the contents of a small vial of wine dye onto a tanned rat pelt, skillfully working the wine color evenly into its surface.
A small vial of wine dye, empty of its contents, shatters into tiny shards.
Roundtime: 25 sec.
>glance
You glance down to see nothing in your right hand and a wine rat pelt in your left hand.

Subsequent working resulted in "a pair of gaudy wine rat pelt boots."

Gretchen