Forging Questions.

[Lucas]

A.) Anyone know how long it takes to master forging (as a warrior/human) number of hours (conservative estimate).

B.) Anyone know what exactly needs to be done in forging (the commands etc.) There a detailed forging guide out there?

[EmpressBtch]

Dear Lucas,

Allow me to point you to a function called "search" on these boards.

[Asha]

:rofl:

[HarmNone]

Hee! I was wondering how long it was going to take before someone pointed out that arcane search mechanism to poor Lucas. Hell, there was a time when you asked these questions of your elders in-game and learned from them. I guess that's long gone, eh? :(

Edited to add:

How much have you actually tried to learn on your own, Lucas, as far as the details of forging go? Have you made any effort? Have you watched a master forger? Have you even spoken to one? To me, it's not about how fast can I get the information and get this drudgery done. It's more about how would a person who has chosen to forge learn how to forge in Elanthia. I will admit, it distresses me to see how much it's all come down to the equivalent of cheat codes and who can do it fastest with the least effort. I find that rather sad.

[Lucas]

All this hostility! And no, there isn't much detail on forging times. Although there is a good deal of info on the actual forging process (was looking for something more in guide format).

-In terms of RPing out actual forging, this is a player's preogative. I think the selling of silvers or uber items for 400 bucks a pop is FAR more apprehensible. I do neither of these things, even though I have a glut of silvers in the bank.
Wheres your RP lecture about that?

[HarmNone]

What hostility? I didn't really sense any hostility here. I did read a suggestion about where you might get the information you're seeking on your own merit.

As far as what I said, it wasn't a lecture. It was the recalling of how things were once done, and an expression of regret that sharing with one another in an in-game environment, and learning through interface with those who had learned before you seems to have become a thing of the past. If you want to take that as a lecture, it's your prerogative, I suppose.

I didn't trade silvers or sell items either. So what? You appear to judge that as reprehensible, yet don't find anything wrong with letting others do your thinking, and your work, for you. Interesting ethical mind set....

[Landrion]

A.) Anyone know how long it takes to master forging (as a warrior/human) number of hours (conservative estimate).

B.) Anyone know what exactly needs to be done in forging (the commands etc.) There a detailed forging guide out there?


Im sorry to be the one to tell you, but it takes an immensely long time. The initial ranks go quickly, but it bogs down hideously towards the last ranks. It can take days or weeks to get the last single rank itself (depending on how much time you put in per session).

Amazingly for them (they have a penchant for letting us guess sometimes), Simu has put the correct information into this guide

http://www.play.net/gs4/info/artisan_skills/forgingoverview.asp

Everything command-wise you need to know should be in there.
I used to use this site as well

http://www.jerrec.com/forging.htm

I'll warn you now, forging is generally not worth it unless you really want the RP or intend to make a lot of weapons and sell them. It is far easier to buy a better weapon than the best one you can forge. If you simply must have a "perfect" weapon, you might want to commission a smith to do it for you.

[Lucas]

I didn't trade silvers or sell items either. So what? You appear to judge that as reprehensible, yet don't find anything wrong with letting others do your thinking, and your work, for you. Interesting ethical mind set....

Asking how long it takes to master forging is not something so sinister. Besides who cares if I ask such a innocent question? Isn't this board supposed to be about asking questions? And yes I've looked through SIMUs forging guide and the official boards but I didn't like what I see, so I came here (which is always reliable). It isn't like I'm asking for someone to calculate Redux to a .000001 accuracy.

And yes asking people about forging times vs. selling some text called "+50 claidhmore" for $1500US dollars is a huge difference in terms of the "ethical mind set", at least in my humble opinion.

[Landrion]

Hee! I was wondering how long it was going to take before someone pointed out that arcane search mechanism to poor Lucas. Hell, there was a time when you asked these questions of your elders in-game and learned from them. I guess that's long gone, eh? :(

Edited to add:

How much have you actually tried to learn on your own, Lucas, as far as the details of forging go? Have you made any effort? Have you watched a master forger? Have you even spoken to one? To me, it's not about how fast can I get the information and get this drudgery done. It's more about how would a person who has chosen to forge learn how to forge in Elanthia. I will admit, it distresses me to see how much it's all come down to the equivalent of cheat codes and who can do it fastest with the least effort. I find that rather sad.

Nothing againt you HN, but it came off pretty condescending to me. Enough so to motivate me to actually try to answer him. Now the rest of this isnt directed at you personally but is my feelings on why people dont ask around in game (or at least why I didnt usually).

The amount of snot that I would see others recieve in-game from people asking questions on how to do things made me heavily reliant on the internet to find out things. It was as predictable as the sunrise, someone asks a question, you get three to five jackasses with a smarmy fake answer. Like so:

Person: Question, which orc provides orc hides
smarm1: Orcs do!
smarm2: I believe that would be orcs.
smarm3: Why dont you go and find out yourself.
smarm4: cockatrices.
smarm5: roa'ters

Im sure Im not the only one who ever saw that happen.

Now personally, I dont even remember anymore, maybe its grey orcs, dark orcs, lesser orcs. Isnt it nice that out of the 5 to 6 orcs in the game that only one drops hides and the others drop claws, skins or whatever?

One thing I do know, after Id watch person take shit from smarms 1 through 4 Id private think them the real answer. Because I never liked it when I got the smarm treatment either.

Im not saying its all like that. Ive helped and been helped many times. I got a first class tour of plane one after the first time I got my ass handed and rescued. Readers might be surprised that the person who spent time helping me along was Philosilan (who gets a lot of bad press here usually). You never know whose going to be cool to you and help you out. But I can certainly understand why people go for answers offline too. Who wants to pick through the dreck and the ridicule to find someone who'll actually help you?

[AnticorRifling]

Who indeed wants to research something for themselves anywhere ever? Everything should be instantly avalible without the least bit of effort. The world revolves around me, I demand instant gratification to my wants because I am all that fucking matters.

If you're not willing to put in alittle effort towards finding your own answers don't be shocked when other people aren't willing to put that effort in for you.

Now had the approach to either your questions, or your example had been something like:

I've looked around and I'm unable to find the information I need anyone able to point me in the right direction?

See that shows you actually did something on your own and are asking for help instead of looking for the easy button.

When I had to find orc hides for COL I went out and killed orcs, lots of them. When I couldn't find what I was after I asked something like:

I know grey orcs, red orcs, lesser orcs, etc don't yield hides once skinned, anyone able to point me in the right direction?

Boom 4 correct answers and not one jackass remark.

There are no horses in GemStone, especially high horses so get off yours.

[Asha]

And yes asking people about forging times vs. selling some text called "+50 claidhmore" for $1500US dollars is a huge difference in terms of the "ethical mind set", at least in my humble opinion.

Hahaha, What!?

[Bobmuhthol]

The answer is approximately 170 hours.

[Landrion]

Who indeed wants to research something for themselves anywhere ever? Everything should be instantly avalible without the least bit of effort. The world revolves around me, I demand instant gratification to my wants because I am all that fucking matters.

If you're not willing to put in alittle effort towards finding your own answers don't be shocked when other people aren't willing to put that effort in for you.

Now had the approach to either your questions, or your example had been something like:

I've looked around and I'm unable to find the information I need anyone able to point me in the right direction?

See that shows you actually did something on your own and are asking for help instead of looking for the easy button.

When I had to find orc hides for COL I went out and killed orcs, lots of them. When I couldn't find what I was after I asked something like:

I know grey orcs, red orcs, lesser orcs, etc don't yield hides once skinned, anyone able to point me in the right direction?

Boom 4 correct answers and not one jackass remark.

There are no horses in GemStone, especially high horses so get off yours.

A fair point, how a question is phrased certainly does have an effect on the answers you get. Giving the appearance of laziness is a poor way to gather info.

I must admit though, I still find it distasteful when someone is ridiculed as in the fictional orc situation I described.

[CrystalTears]

Heh, you'll always have smartasses, especially when you ask a pretty open question like that. I hate to bring up WoW in this, but the same situation applies.

"Where do you find murloc eyes?"
"Uh, from murlocs."

And then ensues a humongous debate about it. But if you don't say what exactly you need and for what, people will just assume you're being a lazy idiot (especially in WoW since most of the quests, if not all, tell you where the creatures are for quest items).

Of course someone could have been really mean and told them to go here (http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/). :D

[Landrion]

Heh, you'll always have smartasses, especially when you ask a pretty open question like that. I hate to bring up WoW in this, but the same situation applies.

"Where do you find murloc eyes?"
"Uh, from murlocs."

And then ensues a humongous debate about it. But if you don't say what exactly you need and for what, people will just assume you're being a lazy idiot (especially in WoW since most of the quests, if not all, tell you where the creatures are for quest items).

Of course someone could have been really mean and told them to go here (http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/). :D

Unrelated thought. The problem with murlocs is that goddamn sound they make. It really does make me want to kill them.

[HarmNone]

A fair point, how a question is phrased certainly does have an effect on the answers you get. Giving the appearance of laziness is a poor way to gather info.

I must admit though, I still find it distasteful when someone is ridiculed as in the fictional orc situation I described.

Actually, that was my point, Landrion. If it sounded condescending, I apologize. That'll teach me to post when I'm sick. :(

It's sad to think that a person can't even ask a question of the game elders without being ridiculed. As long as a person has made an effort to find the answer on his/her own, it shouldn't be that way. I guess camaraderie is dead as the proverbial mackerel, eh?

[Landrion]

Actually, that was my point, Landrion. If it sounded condescending, I apologize. That'll teach me to post when I'm sick. :(

It's sad to think that a person can't even ask a question of the game elders without being ridiculed. As long as a person has made an effort to find the answer on his/her own, it shouldn't be that way. I guess camaraderie is dead as the proverbial mackerel, eh?

No problem HN, like I said, the thread that far and not just you reminded me of something I didnt like about the amunet in Gem. It wasnt directed at you personally.

I wouldnt say camraderie is as dead as the mackeral, like I said before: "Im not saying its all like that. Ive helped and been helped many times". And, as Anticor pointed out, the way you ask has a big effect on what you get.

[Bobmuhthol]

The answer is approximately 170 hours.


And http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Forging should tell you all about the process.

[HarmNone]

Heh. I think, Landrion, that you and I were both effected by events outside this particular post. I've recently noticed a tendency for new posters to ask questions in a way that suggests they haven't even tried to find an answer on their own.

Just as you thought of the amulet and the ridicule people receive for asking questions, I thought of the old "Where's the gypsy?" that came out of the mouth of so many new players...driving everyone nuts in the process. They hadn't looked for the gypsy. They didn't want to look for the gypsy. They just wanted somebody to give them the answer so no effort was required from them. I've seen too many posts lately that harken back to "Where's the gypsy?" ;)

[Landrion]

Heh. I think, Landrion, that you and I were both effected by events outside this particular post. I've recently noticed a tendency for new posters to ask questions in a way that suggests they haven't even tried to find an answer on their own.

Just as you thought of the amulet and the ridicule people receive for asking questions, I thought of the old "Where's the gypsy?" that came out of the mouth of so many new players...driving everyone nuts in the process. They hadn't looked for the gypsy. They didn't want to look for the gypsy. They just wanted somebody to give them the answer so no effort was required from them. I've seen too many posts lately that harken back to "Where's the gypsy?" ;)

:-)

I understand, the gypsy and the damn runner.

[AestheticDeath]

Just as you thought of the amulet and the ridicule people receive for asking questions, I thought of the old "Where's the gypsy?" that came out of the mouth of so many new players...driving everyone nuts in the process. They hadn't looked for the gypsy. They didn't want to look for the gypsy. They just wanted somebody to give them the answer so no effort was required from them. I've seen too many posts lately that harken back to "Where's the gypsy?" ;)

Not getting onto you HN, but more the situation.

There are some times, when you are better off doing the research yourself. I will agree. But, there are also times when it is so much faster, and so much simpler just to ask someone WHO ALREADY KNOWS!

How many rooms are in the landing?
How many newbies know how to get around all of them?
How many newbies have downloaded maps of the whole freaking place?

How many people occupy a good 25% of the rooms in the landing?
And how many people wonder about the landing?

It makes sense to me, to team up, and ask your fellow adventurers to give you some indication of where to look for something.

When I am at work, and my machine breaks. If I don't know how to fix it, I don't stand around wondering or waste time trying to figure it out on my own. I go and ask the guy whos done it for nearly 30 years, and he says
"You gotta do this, like so!" And whata ya know, its running again.

More so, onto the search feature on message boards like this one. Sometimes its a real headache to try and sift through the many post you receive in response to an inquiry made to the search system. Admittedly, some people are more knowledgable about how to get a search done correctly, and sift through the information much easier or quicker. But sometimes, a good amount of the time - I don't find what I am looking for. If I have recently been the victim of my own stupidity, and could not find something I wanted to find. Its very possible I will skip the search process for my next question, and just get more to the point of asking for help. It may not always be the best thing to do, but I honestly do not see anything wrong with asking people for help, rather than wasting time trying to do it yourself. If you can get a reasonable and accurate response from your fellow game players, why waste an hour sifting through 100's and sometimes 1000's of post?

And yes, I am lazy. I could care less what anyone thinks of my laziness or myself in particular. But you are welcome to post about it or me, and call me stupid as several seem to love to do around here.

Thats my two cents for today! :thanx:

[Latrinsorm]

See that shows you actually did something on your own and are asking for help instead of looking for the easy button.If we're going to assume the questioner is honest, why can't we assume the questioner has looked for the answer eirself? I can say I looked for an answer, but my say-so doesn't cause history to rewrite itself (yet).

Bob is correct, but to expound on his answer:
On average, getting to rank 500 requires 3397 attempts, which at 180 seconds per attempt works out to 169 hours and 51 minutes.
If you have an exceptional Logic bonus, you will only require (on average) 2897 attempts, which works out to 144 hours and 51 minutes. More importantly, it will double your chances of getting the dreaded rank 500, making it much more unlikely for a long string of bad luck to occur.

To HarmNone: Perhaps you don't remember this or it was after your time in the game, but GemStone has a very bad habit of being excruciatingly unintuitive when it comes to "guess the verb". Recalling this, I would be hard-pressed to find a person requesting aid when it comes to the verbiage of an activity looking for "cheat codes".

[Sirgol]

so..... where's the damn runner?

[Goretawn]

so..... where's the damn runner?

You just missed the runner. Check one north or south, not sure which direction.

[Drew]

Latrinestorm, can you please just use proper pronouns. You're making my hippie alarm go nuts.

[Latrinsorm]

It's "ey" or "he or she". In some cases, "he or she" can't even really cover the situation. I'll take the shorter, more comprehensive version.

Tangentially, the rate of learning for cobbling ranks wtfpwns forging really obnoxiously.