Perception

[zhelas]

I have been 1x training in perception for the last 61 trains and have been wondering if it is really worth putting anymore points into it.

I know that perception helps you search and spot folks who are hidden, see rangers walking through the area, spot traps, archery, aid in finding loot off a handful of creatures and to some extent help guard your pockets from sticky fingers.

I know that at one time, it was discussed to help with 720 but I don't think that is a factor in that spell anymore.

I think it works with 404 + 416 when spotting traps on boxes.

But what does it do for our profession?

Thanks,

Zhelas

[Kefka]

Doesn't it help you locate hidden passageways/doors?

[El Burro]

Doesn't it help reduce the DS pushdown when being ambushed from hiding?

[zhelas]

I know it helps finding the cracks and door ways...and other things hidden from view. I thought I had heard about it helping to protect against the DS push down from ambush, but was not sure.

How much does it protect against DS pushdown?

[GuildRat]

Doesn't it help reduce the DS pushdown when being ambushed from hiding?

Yes, to some extent it will protect against push-down.

[Fallen]

The only spells I believe it would factor into at the moment is 416 and 402.

[Stanley Burrell]

You forgot foraging in addition to survival, too.

[Numbers]

My Sorcerer is level 62, 0 ranks in perception, he does just fine without it. It no longer factors into FI (in fact, I'm not sure it ever did). I've never had any problems finding hidden passageways or doors, but I'm not sure if that will become an issue at higher levels. And while it probably does help against the ambush DS pushdown, aside from PvP against ambushers, in PvE, it won't become an issue until much higher level, as there's not many creatures in our level range that ambush... and even so, Sorcerer DS is usually high enough anyway, not to mention the CoS retribution if you should get hit-stunned.

It's a useful ancillary skill that you can get if you can fit it, but not at the expense of more important skills. For instance, I'd rather 2.5x spells or 2x lores instead of 1x perception.

[zhelas]

Sorcerer DS is usually high enough anyway, not to mention the CoS retribution if you should get hit-stunned.

Since you brought up CoS, will retribution fire off against stuns caused by CMANS?

[GuildRat]

Since you brought up CoS, will retribution fire off against stuns caused by CMANS?

Yes, to my knowledge....it fires off on garrote and the likes.

[Asha]

I thought the only cman it worked against was garrotte.
Also even though I need my perception fully doubled for archery Now that I've that much perception I'd never go without its benefits which you pointed out well enough Zhelas.

[GuildRat]

I thought the only cman it worked against was garrotte.
Also even though I need my perception fully doubled for archery Now that I've that much perception I'd never go without its benefits which you pointed out well enough Zhelas.

I'm assuming that garrote=hamstring/bearhug...and the likes. Anything that may produce a stun. More experimentation may be needed, so get to it sorcerers!

[I.I.]

Doesn't it help you locate hidden passageways/doors?

I think that's actually a common misconception. Although I'm sure it might factor in a little bit the main skill that helps you find hidden passageways etc is actually survival. Directly from the site...

Survival
This skill represents a character's ability to survive in the wilderness. Success in performing actions such as foraging for edible or medicinal herbs, finding certain hidden passageways, building a fire, or skinning an animal is affected by this skill. When skinning an animal, one rank of the Survival skill is equal to one rank of the First Aid skill when factoring success. Training in the Survival skill also assists in moving through rough, treacherous, or otherwise cumbersome terrain, as well as avoiding some natural hazards.

As for CoS retributing against cmans, I think that it only works on garrote.

And finally, for training in Perception itself. I've trained to 30 ranks and never needed more, not to mention that I've considered untraining that skill quite a few times.

[StrayRogue]

Just hope you never have to try and uncover someone in hiding.

[I.I.]

Just hope you never have to try and uncover someone in hiding.

Obviously the decision to train or not to train in perception is based on the preferences of the player. If you find yourself in PvP situations fairly often you obviously might want to train in perception but its still pretty hard to get much use out of it in that regard unless you 2x it.

[Numbers]

Besides, sorcerers have several ways to flush someone out of hiding if needed.

[Celephais]

finding certain hidden passageways

Pretty sure several are linked to perception.

[Asha]

The bent spike in Darkstone was impossible to find without perception.

[I.I.]

Pretty sure several are linked to perception.

Which is why I didn't say that all were based on survival, because honestly it seems stupid the way it is already. I'd be much more inclined to believe that finding hidden things is more a factor of your perception than your survival skills. But Simu doesn't make a lot of sense sometimes.

[Fallen]

Also, I know it sounds cheesy, but do you roleplay your character as being highly perceptive? Is he able to pick up on certain things, like a character's race/culture immediately?

It is like a merchant character that trains in trading. Some skills should be trained in for their RP value IMO.

[zhelas]

Truthfully, I have always 1x in perception with characters. However I really think I did it for mechanics versus roleplay. Back in GS3 days it was rumored that perception would affect FI. I do know that not to be the case. I mentioned in a previous post the reasons for training in it.

When I originally created my sorcerer, in the GS3 days, I never planned for his skills past 50 trains(Never thought he would get that old). Recently, I have been toying with the idea of using thosing those points towards different skills. (spells, MOC:for FoF, cmans: especially disarm since he is a runestaff user, currently he wears 5x doubles..i have heard that leather breast plate or studded leathers might be worth looking into)

[Celephais]

Also, I know it sounds cheesy, but do you roleplay your character as being highly perceptive? Is he able to pick up on certain things, like a character's race/culture immediately?

It is like a merchant character that trains in trading. Some skills should be trained in for their RP value IMO.

And if there was a skill called "Role playing" that cost 10TPs it wouldn't make you a better role player. I think it's perfectly acceptable for someone to RP a fire mage whilst training in air lore or something along those lines.

[mgoddess]

My 15th trained sorc went from 0 ranks of perception to singled (16), and saw a large improvement on being able to do illusions. With 0 ranks, creating an illusion was nearly impossible (about 2% of her tries). With 16 ranks, she succeeds at creating illusions 75% of her tries.

[FinisWolf]

And if there was a skill called "Role playing" that cost 10TPs it wouldn't make you a better role player. I think it's perfectly acceptable for someone to RP a fire mage whilst training in air lore or something along those lines.

See, thats one of those things I have kinda got hung up on. I want air and earth lore, but I play a fire mage ... You may have just helped me justify the other lores. Thanks.

Finis

[Celephais]

No problem, that's what I'm doing, I'm RPin an Ice mage, but Ice lore sucks ass.

[Fallen]

Hi! I am Evarin the Archer. I have no real skill with bows, but I am an Archer! Right.

Tell me you atleast have enough lore ranks to make Ice Patch change the water bolt into the wand version of the spell.

[Olanan]

My ranger archer Rennothin is a time mage.

Vant is a sorcerer. Yeeaaah. That's it. A sorcerer.

[Numbers]

My 15th trained sorc went from 0 ranks of perception to singled (16), and saw a large improvement on being able to do illusions. With 0 ranks, creating an illusion was nearly impossible (about 2% of her tries). With 16 ranks, she succeeds at creating illusions 75% of her tries.

That should be noted. Perception plays in rather heavily with illusions, so if you ever want to master them, you'd probably want some. Of course, since illusions (and minor demons to an extent) are largely worthless, and since mastering illusions is mind-numbing tedium ("More fun, less tedium!"), you can probably safely forget about'em.

[Celephais]

Hi! I am Evarin the Archer. I have no real skill with bows, but I am an Archer! Right.

Tell me you atleast have enough lore ranks to make Ice Patch change the water bolt into the wand version of the spell.

Walk around with a bow and have no problem roleplaying that you're not a very good archer, and why not? People played ice mages prior to ice patch even existing, generally it was nice if your attunement (via eblade) was ice, but you couldn't actually pick that. There is a reason the GMs made it so picking your attune isn't based on lore.

And even if I had the lores for ice patch to change water bolt, I still wouldn't do it, it's worthless.

[Fallen]

So..by your logic, you are an ice mage, but just not a good one?

[TheEschaton]

That's ridiculous. My one dwarven wizard is an Eonak worshipper, does it make sense for him to train in water and air lores?

Hell no. If he respected Eonake, he'd train earth and maybe fire.

-TheE-

[Ignot]

aid in finding loot off a handful of creatures




I always heard this is a rumor. Anyone actally test this to see if it works? From my experience this isnt true.

[Artha]

I'm pretty sure it's false, though it's hard to test (which is why the rumor propogated, IMO).

[zhelas]

I always heard this is a rumor. Anyone actally test this to see if it works? From my experience this isnt true.
Could be..I heard the same thing as a rumor. Probably got started since the treasure system is so wonderful.

[Numbers]

It's true, but only on a very very small amount of creatures. In fact, the only creature I can think of offhand where it's true is myklians, where more perception gives you the chance to find extra gems off'em.

[AestheticDeath]

I always heard it mentioned with kiramon, though I was never able to test it. I just figured it was a myth.

[I.I.]

I believe it's also true for glacei.

[Celephais]

So..by your logic, you are an ice mage, but just not a good one?

I didn't say I was a good one. Eventually I plan on training in water lore, I am just not going to cripple my abilities in the meantime, that's actually part of my RP as it is, while I favor the element of ice, and enjoy it's adornments, I will use any ability if it gets the job done (I'm certainly not a pure, and use a blade and shield for it's superior protection, as well as occasionally swinging).

I was using myself as an example, there are plenty of people who RP things they don't train in (Non-Trading merchants being the most popular I'm sure... I'm also sure there are plenty of pious individuals who don't train in religion lore). I think it would be dumb if everyone who didn't train in perception "had" to RP being oblivous. Or if everyone who's LOG stat was low should RP not being able to use logic. Mechanics do not dictate RP.

Edit: sorry if this is all off topic, I wouldn't be offended if a Mod wanted to move these "RP vs Mechanics" posts into another thread

[holocene]

Absolutely true on glacei, and possibly the other blue-gem yielding critters of pinefar. In a lot of ways these finds are more akin to skinning--which does require perception--than to treasure as you always end up with the same thing (and hurt your hand in the process).

[zhelas]

Absolutely true on glacei, and possibly the other blue-gem yielding critters of pinefar. In a lot of ways these finds are more akin to skinning--which does require perception--than to treasure as you always end up with the same thing (and hurt your hand in the process).
I wonder if it would be the same for the Lava golems on Teras. I mean when you search them you find a red gem.

[StrayRogue]

Yep, they are basically fire copies of Ice Elementals in pinefar.

[Celephais]

Guess Skyals too, but those things are 100% of the time, no skill needed. (Never failed on a fire golem, can you?)

[StrayRogue]

And wasp nests. Though, I had 100 ranks and still occasionally didn't find a gem.