A friendly reminder.

[Responsible Adult]

I don't play Gemstone like my fiance does, but I know she visits this site quite a bit. Just would like to say after researching this game that it seems it can become unhealthy. Also, after reading some posts it seems most of you are around your early 20's or 30's or getting into them and seem to hold steady jobs.

I guess my advice is to be careful. This game from what I can tell with a Business degree (so I'm no expert), is a basic work and reward system reinforced by a virtual society (with all it's social ladders as in the real world). I can see how it can be truly addictive especially for people who like socializing or are introverted. My fiance only plays about 1 to 2 hours or so a day, and not every day. But to be frank, although it is acceptable I still will like it if she played a bit less.

What begins to really worry me is when I look at the "Marketplace" boards and see virtual money being traded for real life money. Or virtual items being traded for real life dollars. I do not find this healthy at all. What this is telling me is that a person is now moving to the point where he or she deems that the virtual game world is becoming of equal importance to the real world.

I understand some of the arguements out there. "Well, I purchase an Xbox game for 50$ or go on golf trips for 300$". I understand this arguement and would like to counter. The Xbox game or golf trips are still part of the real world,you are trading real life money to purchase a real product that you (and not your character) can actually use. It would be like a Gemstone character purchasing a Vulkite shield for 1 million virtual money, that character within the boundaries of his social world has made a trade. This is fine, and can be fun. But to grey the lines of real life and this virtual world I believe can lead to something abnormal.

Further, after understanding the game a bit further and coupling this with some business pessimism, I'am beginning to see how real people can exploit other real people in this game. When I see Ebay virtual money being sold I notice most of you put "I'am only selling the time I put into making this virtual money" as a disclaimer. Although, I abhor this type of interaction (read above) let me clue some of the potential purchasers in. The playing field is not even! Let me explain.

My fiance has a particularly advanced character in the Gemstone game. She can make 1 million virtual dollars in a couple of days. I have also noticed that many in the game cannot make this much virtual money in such a short period of time. What drives me nuts is how real people are leveraging the mechanics (and virtual social standing) of a game world to exploit other real people of their real life money. This just seems wrong ethically.

Finally, after reading some previous posts I can see how this Simutronics corporation is beginning to take into this business too. Selling game goods based on the virtual social rules that they dictate, for real life money. This is again ethically wrong in my opinion. Because although it may seem as innocent as purchasing movie tickets (although no movie ticket I know of costs 100 $), the movie companies cannot arbitrarly change the social rules of the real world to force you to come see their movies. They can have an excellent marketing department, but they can't force pass Congressional laws requiring everyone who doesn't go see a movie to not be able to buy homes or be barred from being promoted in their jobs.

Again, just a friendly reminder. I know most of you are responsible adults, but for those of you who didn't know or are beginning to spend just a bit too much money on somethings that in the long term isn't worthwhile please take the advice.

Thanks for listening,

Michael Vitori

[Asha]

I don't play Gemstone ..

From the start, you aren't really going to understand much about the game and how healthy we can be while enjoying frequent play.
In that case it sounds like a wife who's tired of her husband golfing and telling his friends they should stop incase e's struck by lightning.

No offence mate, but speaking for myself I'm pretty sure I know the 'risks' of GS. Although I appreciate your support.
pfft.

[Aaysia]

(psst... it's vultite)

[Jorddyn]

Again, just a friendly reminder. I know most of you are responsible adults, but for those of you who didn't know or are beginning to spend just a bit too much money on somethings that in the long term isn't worthwhile please take the advice.

Thanks for listening,

Michael Vitori

You must be a ton of fun at bars.

Jorddyn

[Sean of the Thread]

Your perception of how things work are really not on target. You sound like a bitter Tsin fan more than anything else.

[Belnia]

Oh shit, Gemstone is addictive? Could have told you that 8 years ago.

[HarmNone]

Although I agree with you that there are many ethically charry elements that are part of the world of GemStoneIV, one cannot be exploited unless one allows oneself to be exploitable...at least, not in the game we're discussing here.

I don't play anymore and haven't played in years. When I did play, I chose not to exchange real world currency for game currency, or real world currency for game items. The choice was mine to make and I made it. The same is true for everyone who plays. The argument could be made that those who are not "of age" cannot be counted to be sufficiently prepared, from a real world perspective, to avoid the pitfalls you describe. However, their parents should be, and they are ultimately responsible for what their offspring do.

While I understand what you're trying to say, there are those for whom GemStone is their entertainment, just as golf (or X-Box) might be entertainment for someone else. Even for responsible adults, a certain amount of disposable income is earmarked for entertainment. It's not up to any one of us to decide what is acceptable entertainment for another one of us, as long as that choice of entertainment is not detrimental to society as a whole, or to any non-consenting individual. We may have our opinions, certainly; however, that's what they are...opinions.

I guess I don't see much difference between the person who spends money he/she doesn't have on a lottery ticket, or a trip to Tobago, or any other number of unnecessary extravagances and the person who spends money he/she doesn't have on the game of GemStone. It's not like this is something entirely new. These choices have been there to be made since beads were exchanged for animal hides. As for those who make money from the foolishness of others, welcome to Capitalism. We may not always like it, but it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

[Wezas]

Go back to Canada. kthx.

[Celephais]

My fiance has a particularly advanced character in the Gemstone game. She can make 1 million virtual dollars in a couple of days. I have also noticed that many in the game cannot make this much virtual money in such a short period of time. What drives me nuts is how real people are leveraging the mechanics (and virtual social standing) of a game world to exploit other real people of their real life money. This just seems wrong ethically.

And a car company can make a car a lot faster than I can with the tools at my disposal. That happens in the real world too, the car company is buying "time" from "skilled" (read: high level) workers to assemble the car. How tangible is a song you buy from iTunes? You can hear the music but you don't actually own it, same goes for the silvers in GS, you can "read" what you bought but you don't own it, and if it brings the same entertainment to the purchaser, who cares?

Yes video games are addictive, and people introvert and invest too much of themselves in them, but these little reminders don't work.. you might as well stand outside your local mall LAN party store and try to convert the teenagers to stop playing CS, you'll have just as much luck

[Alfster]

Thanks for listening,

Michael Vitori


You honestly think anyone's listening to you? You've said the same shit everyone here has said, only you posted something that was far longer than I bothered to read. You lost me at the part where you said your fiance plays, you must have missed the thread entitled, "Cute girls don't play GS!"

Either way, you sound like a simu employee trying to get people to change. Eat a dick.

edited to add - why the hell do you care what people you don't know do with their spare time?

[StJimmy]

Dear Michael Vitori aka "Responsible Adult",

Thank you for your misguided concern, unsolicited advice and uneducated opinion. I also appreciate your sweeping generalizations and your assumptions that I can control neither my behavior nor my finances.

You see, there is one flaw to your logic, and had you actually played Gemstone for any amount of time prior to giving your professional advice, you would realize: I could either play Gemstone for an entire day to get the 1 million silvers I require for a little e-retail therapy, or I could spend 5 minutes and $15 (approximately 20 mins work) purchasing the 1 million silvers someone else had spent the time to gather instead. Therefore, I am saving myself approximately 7hrs55mins gathering "virtual dollars", time that I would rather spend shagging my "virtual fiancé" or similar.

As the old adage goes; "Time is money". My money is better spent on someone elses time.

And speaking of time, wouldn't your time be spent a little better doing perhaps a little more research on the subject you're giving advice on? Scanning over a few posts, or even one forum hardly qualifies you to educate people who have actually spent time playing, loving, and hating this game. Perhaps you should invest a little more time on your fiancé, rather than serving friendly reminders.

Just another observation Michael, if you do in fact have a fiancé, I'd love to see you try to tell her how she could have spent her money better had she not bought those shoes, handbag, clothes etc. Good luck getting much of anything out of her then.

I work hard for my money, I earn my money, and therefore I will do what I want with my money, regardless of your moral or ethic objections. My money is simply that, MINE! I'll do what I want with it, whether it be invest it, buy intangible goods, drink it away or shoot it up. As a responsible, oft times irresponsible adult, it's mine to do with as I please.

This is just a friendly reply to your equally friendly reminder.

Love, StJimmy

[CrystalTears]

You have a problem with her playing for 1-2 hours a day.. would you feel the same way if she spent that same amount of time watching TV? Surfing the internet? Reading a book? Playing solitaire?

Why does playing a video game automatically equal irresponsibility and immaturity or something? It's just entertainment. I'd rather spend my free time playing a game and sharing time with my online friends than watching a soap opera or a night of Emmy awards.

As long as the activity doesn't interfere with keeping up with your responsibilities, it shouldn't matter what the activity is, as long as it's enjoyed.

As far as paying real money for virtual money/items, at this point, I don't really care. If someone enjoyed spending that time making that money and earning those items, great. If someone else would rather spend time using items and money and not making it and have the means to swap that with the achiever, more power to him.

Honestly, who cares? If you have the means to buy virtual things and wish to spend less time in the game earning it to enjoy the game with the item/money, have at it. Hell right now I'm tempted to spend real money to get gold for my WoW characters. I just want to keep up and get the things I know I won't have time to devote to get.

I'm wondering if you stated all this to your wife, and what her reaction was to your questioning the ethics of something you have no first hand knowledge of.

[HarmNone]

Heh. I, too, was wondering if he's discussed this matter at so much length with his fiancee'. It sounds to me like he's passing judgement on her chosen form of entertainment, and finding it wanting in some way. If she's got any real moxey at all, I'd like to see this relationship a few weeks, months, years down the road. ;)

[Sean of the Thread]

You have a problem with her playing for 1-2 hours a day.. would you feel the same way if she spent that same amount of time watching TV? Surfing the internet? Reading a book? Playing solitaire?

Why does playing a video game automatically equal irresponsibility and immaturity or something? It's just entertainment. I'd rather spend my free time playing a game and sharing time with my online friends than watching a soap opera or a night of Emmy awards.

As long as the activity doesn't interfere with keeping up with your responsibilities, it shouldn't matter what the activity is, as long as it's enjoyed.



Spot on. Too bad you're already married or we could make babies.

My old lady still gets NASTY while I'm sitting in the same room playing on the computer and the entire time she is bitching at me she is watching fucking Lifetime.
In her case I think it's jealousy because she thinks I talk to everyone more than her. (which I do hehehe). I have several forums that I post in daily and I think that's the problem.

[Skirmisher]

So who is this responsible persons fiance again?

[Sean of the Thread]

So who is this responsible persons fiance again?

I'm guessing Emislity?

[Tea & Strumpets]

So who is this responsible persons fiance again?

Someone who likes imbeciles apparently. I'm still kind of chuckling at the serious tone of his post, and his wacky theories. In all fairness, I only made it through the 1st paragraph.

[Lassiter 506]

In fairness, his theories do hold true for a fair number of those who play the game. I rarely finish the 6 hours of Lumnis' gift anymore, and have been contemplating liquidating my accounts. What is holding me back is fear of losing over a decade worth of efforts and virtual goods, because I know someone will eventually buy what I am selling and I'll never get it back. Just because I know that it is not a healthy obsession doesn't mean I like reading about itfrom someone who does not play GS... but to deny that a lot of people have an unhealthy obsession with the game would be foolish.

[Gan]

St.Jimmy pretty much said what I was going to say. :clap:

My unsolicited advice to Responsible Adult is: save your unsolicited advice for someone who solicits it. :bye:

[HarmNone]

I don't think anyone is denying that, Lassiter. However, it isn't up to me, or you, or Responsible Adult to tell others how to live their lives. You make mistakes. You learn or you don't. It's called free will.

[Miss X]

Is this some kind of joke? If not... Go give your responsible adult lecture to the people who spend their spare time shooting up H. Fucking idiot.

[ELO]

My mother always used to tell me I was addicted to Gemstone.

So-the-fuck-what? There are worse things to be addicted to.

[Asha]

So-the-fuck-what? There are worse things to be addicted to.
Platinum , for instance.

[Lassiter 506]

It didn't take his words with the idea that he was preaching/telling me how to live my life, as much as expressing concern. Perhaps because I still get lectured by my dad in the same tone (though not the same topic), and do not consider him as a sanctimonious bag of wind.

I started playing GS when I was 12. I imagine there are others who started around that age as well. For a few years, I was badly addicted, but was still supported by my parents while in high school. Luckily, those years did not impact my career path, and med school keeps me fairly occupied now. For those that are addicted and are older though, I'm not sure if it affected their livelihood. I didn't interpret the original post as challenging free will. How they live their lives is up to them, though it does make one wonder.

[Gan]

I trade off 1 round of golf a month in order to financially support my gemstone/wow 'addiction'.

I can remember many nights where I chose to participate in an online event in gemstone/wow instead of going down to the local pub for a round or two of cervesa. I saved lots of brain cells, added years onto the life of my lungs from avoiding the second hand smoke, and saved a few additional bucks for the time spent.

Yea, having an online addiction is bad news. :spaz:

[Asha]

I believe it can be bad news to have an online addiction.
Reality becomes your online world and you'll often neglect your real life with it's respnsibilies, such as finance, social life and health.
But GS in moderation can't be called an addiction.
It's harmless in moderation but should have a warning sticker with Tsins plyer on the front of the SGE.
Log in but remember, this could be you over extended periods of play...
Kinda like cigarrettes.

[Miss X]

For the record, I've managed to get my Bachelors degree, Masters degree and RN qualification, (well in 9 weeks it's official!) as well as play Gemstone in my spare time, attend pay events, mentor and also maintain a social life outside of that. Am I addicted to Gemstone? Eh, probably or I'd have quit by now. Has it impacted on my life in any way? Only positively, I've made some great friends through Gemstone.

Anything you do in life can become all encompassing if you let it, trying to blame Gemstone for your real life issues or lack of motivation/achievement/money is just shifting the blame from yourself to something that is not at fault in the slightest.

[Sean of the Thread]

Only positively, I've made some great friends through Gemstone.


<---and some great stalkers!

[CrystalTears]

Anything you do in life can become all encompassing if you let it, trying to blame Gemstone for your real life issues or lack of motivation/achievement/money is just shifting the blame from yourself to something that is not at fault in the slightest.
That's basically the gist of it. Thank you, Miss X has left the building! :D

[Gan]

What you mean we cant blame others for our problems? Our parents? Our spouse? Our upbringing? Our society?

I would say that it was the American way; however, it seems the blame game has become the mantra of 90's and now 2000's.

[Doughboy]

I don't play Gemstone like ....yadda yadda yadda..blah blah blah....

Thanks for listening,

Michael Vitori


If I went out to a bar everyday, or even every three days, my monthy bill for that would far outweigh a Simutronics payment. Even if I had a drink or two a trip. You figure two beers down here runs you roughly one month of gemstone. Thats not even getting into drinking mixed drinks, shots ect... Just to use that as an example....

And no, I'm not saying you do, it's just an example.

**Edited to add:

Going out drinking is probably a hell of a lot more addictive and much much worse for you than playing an online game.

[Numbers]

I'm sure you had good intentions with this post, but please do not deem to speak down to us or "warn of us the dangers" when, in reality, even with that super duper business degree of yours (hi, I have an MBA), you don't have the slightest idea of how things work.

Do people trade real life cash for in game items? Sure. This is nothing new. Want a real shocker? Go visit IGE.com. There's an entire business sector absolutely thriving off of this practice. It's nothing new. It's not dangerous. It's not degenerate. It's not horrifying.

Is GemStone addictive? Sure. So is WoW with it's 6 MILLION customers. So is almost every other MMO out there. And, as you said, it's a basic "work and reward" system. Thanks Mr. Pavlov, but you're essentially explaining life and work and jobs.

GemStone's been around for 10+ years. You're not exactly breaching new territory here.

[Gan]

I fully expected to next see that Gemstone is teh Devil letter that was floating around a while back talking about how Gemstone wrecked someone's marriage and family life.

And I wish people who sound so stupid would not tout (advanced) business degrees. I'm in the process of obtaining one and I do not want them representing the same part of the population that I do.

[CrystalTears]

"I need you to FedEx these packages."
"But I have an MBA."
"Oooh... you have an MBA... then I'll show you how to do it."

:D

[Gan]

hahahahah :(

h8te jooz for reminding me of that commercial

:love:

[Sean of the Thread]

"I need you to FedEx these packages."
"But I have an MBA."
"Oooh... you have an MBA... then I'll show you how to do it."

:D


HAHAHAHAHA

Never used FedEx commercial software but I really liked UPS's.

[Tsa`ah]

Heh ... completely skipped the thread and just HAD to see what could cause multiple pages.

Champ, we already know everything you posted and then some.

Given the choice between on-line gaming and some sort of social interaction and couch potatoing, I'd rather people get some social interaction.

If it's not for you, it's not for you. Much like religion, don't force your bullshit down anyone's throat.

[WRoss]

Responsible Adult for golden kobold

[mgoddess]

I don't play Gemstone like my fiance does, but I know she visits this site quite a bit. Just would like to say after researching this game that it seems it can become unhealthy.


This game ... is a basic work and reward system reinforced by a virtual society (with all it's social ladders as in the real world). I can see how it can be truly addictive especially for people who like socializing or are introverted.

Oooh, give the man a freakin Nobel Prize, he just figured out that Gemstone IV is addictive!


It would be like a Gemstone character purchasing a Vulkite shield for 1 million virtual money

It's vultite, and normal vultite shields go off-the-shelf for between 30k and 150k silver... Unless you're talking about someone's vultite shield that has an extra enchant, or a spike, or flares, or other stuff. Then it might be worth a mil.


I'm beginning to see how real people can exploit other real people in this game.

It's only exploitation when either part doesn't know exactly what's going on...or, for that matter, if there happens to be two parties at all. There's some of us who don't spend real-life money on anything players sell in-game (pay-for events held by Simu is a whole 'nother topic though...)


What drives me nuts is how real people are leveraging the mechanics (and virtual social standing) of a game world to exploit other real people of their real life money. This just seems wrong ethically.

ROFLMFAO....ethically wrong?! Boy, you are on the WRONG board to pull language like that.

(Oh, I'm sorry...do you even know what "ROFLMFAO" means? *snicker*)

Basically, I'd say...don't come to a forum for Gemstoners when you yourself don't play, and start telling us to "OOooh, be careful!!!11!! This game, it's addicting, and you probably don't even know it!!11!!"

- Some player who knows she's addicted.

P.S. So, what do you think of people who spend $90+ a month just for access to the game?

[Leetahkin]

<<My fiance only plays about 1 to 2 hours or so a day, and not every day. But to be frank, although it is acceptable I still will like it if she played a bit less>>

My advice to your fiance is to run now. If he wants to try to be controlling now, wait until you're married. I'm sure it'll be ten-fold.

Oh, and I find interruptions very bad while I'm playing GS. I hated it when my then husband would want to go off on this lengthy conversation and want me to participate. In the nicest way, I'd tell him to fuck off until I was done.

So, advice to you is to go off with buddies, or what have you, for a few hours. Or go find your own hobby to do while she does hers.

[Drew]

If I went out to a bar everyday, or even every three days, my monthy bill for that would far outweigh a Simutronics payment. Even if I had a drink or two a trip. You figure two beers down here runs you roughly one month of gemstone. Thats not even getting into drinking mixed drinks, shots ect... Just to use that as an example....




I was at Resort in Palm Beach and payed twenty dollars for a red bull and vodka, so one drink covered my monthly simutronics bill.

[Androidpk]

Best troll post ever. :lol2:

[Daniel]

If I went out to a bar everyday, or even every three days, my monthy bill for that would far outweigh a Simutronics payment. Even if I had a drink or two a trip. You figure two beers down here runs you roughly one month of gemstone. Thats not even getting into drinking mixed drinks, shots ect... Just to use that as an example....

Pre-game.

211 is your friend.

[HarmNone]

It didn't take his words with the idea that he was preaching/telling me how to live my life, as much as expressing concern. Perhaps because I still get lectured by my dad in the same tone (though not the same topic), and do not consider him as a sanctimonious bag of wind.

I started playing GS when I was 12. I imagine there are others who started around that age as well. For a few years, I was badly addicted, but was still supported by my parents while in high school. Luckily, those years did not impact my career path, and med school keeps me fairly occupied now. For those that are addicted and are older though, I'm not sure if it affected their livelihood. I didn't interpret the original post as challenging free will. How they live their lives is up to them, though it does make one wonder.

I don't think Responsible Adult actually meant to preach/tell you how to live your life, either. However, that's exactly what he was doing. If he's going to express concern, he needs to express that concern to those with whom he shares something in life...like his fiancee. His concerns about how she spends her time and money might be relevant to her. Then again, they might not be. It's for sure they aren't relevant to me, or to you, or to anyone else here.

While your father may still lecture you on the subject, your father is a part of your life. He helped defray the costs of your "addiction" for awhile, so he has a vested interest, eh? Responsible Adult, however, has not had any hand in your life or the way you live it, anymore than he has had a hand in the life of anyone else who posts on this board, with the exception of his fiancee. He came here to proselytize on his view of on-line gaming and on-line addiction. To be honest, nobody here knows him so nobody here is going to care what his opinion might be. Nor, should they.

Having a business degree doesn't make one the last word on how everyone else should spend their money. Trolling the internet for places to voice your unwanted opinion is, in my opinion, a pretty poor way to put that degree to use.

[Bobmuhthol]

Responsible Adult? More like responsible fucking loser!

[Sean of the Thread]

I was at Resort in Palm Beach and payed twenty dollars for a red bull and vodka, so one drink covered my monthly simutronics bill.


That's just plain stupidity. Either that or had MDMA in it.. popular mix down there.

[Soulpieced]

Daniel's a High Gravity Lager kind of guy. I knew I liked him for some reason.

[Danical]

Pre-game.

211 is your friend.

no truer words of wisdom have been written/spoken.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I get the whole, "this game is addictive" thing. It is. We all know that. But anything in moderation is ok, really.

If Gemstone and Gaming is a hobby, that's ok in my own opinion. Gaming isn't any less "real" than going to see movies or knitting blankets, and it really annoys me to see people trying to make some hobbies out to be "bad" and other's to be "good", by using blanket statement and ideas.

For instance, my mother hates Poker. She thinks that if you play poker, you're a gambling addict. My boyfriend and my dad play poker, a lot. But they're not addicted, even if it is a hobby. It's not ruining anyone's lives, and it's fun for them. Gemstone is the same way. I think more or less all of us are slightly addicted, the way anyone is addicted to their hobbies. But not all of us play for 24 hours a day and use our rent and food money to fund this. Most of us don't, actually.

As far as I'm concerned, money spent on a hobby is money spent on a hobby. Whether your thing is knitting or Gemstone, if you're going to spend 500 dollars on virtual events and silvers or knitting supplies, you're spending that 500 dollars because you want to do something you enjoy. Just because one produces a (hopefully) tangible item and the other doesn't, does not make it any less legitimate. And spending 500 dollars out of your rent money on knitting supplies is JUST as irresponsible as spending it on Gemstone.

I agree wholeheartedly with Ganalon, how this game is relatively cheap compared to other "real life" stuff. And that drinking and partying with friends (a popular "real life" pastime) isn't better for you than playing a game. I played Gemstone all through High School, and I missed one of the worst parties in my small town's existance by skipping the annual Drink-and-do-drugs Halloween Bash, for Ebon's Gate instead. Girls ended up getting raped, someone got stabbed, and a shit load of people got arrested and fined. My parents knew where I was though.. in my room, playing a game, and eating pizza. Yup.. so while I was being a bad, stupid person (and getting some of those awful, "I'm exploiting you" items) I could have been out drinking with my peers like normal teens were, and possibly getting raped and arrested.

IMO, if "Responsible Adult" really is responsible and wants to do something helpful for an actual problem, maybe he should use all those smarts to open a Gamer's Clinic for people who actually are addicted to their MMOs, and not preach to the masses about how misguided and dumb we are about something they don't even fully understand.

[Satira]

I want to meet this guy in person. What made him think that a bunch of addicted strangers on a message board would listen to a word he had to say on the subject?

[ELO]

Responsible Adult? More like responsible fucking loser!

Oh, snap.

[Danical]

I want to meet this guy in person. What made him think that a bunch of addicted strangers on a message board would listen to a word he had to say on the subject?

Psychologically speaking, there should be a boomerang effect in which we should all have strengthened our resolve (re: addiction). Therefore, this nice guy (re: d-bag) undermined his own intent.

Good Job.

[Lucas]

Psychologically speaking, there should be a boomerang effect in which we should all have strengthened our resolve (re: addiction). Therefore, this nice guy (re: d-bag) undermined his own intent.

Good Job.

Hmm, could be a Simu employee?

[Danical]

Yeah, I'm a GM.

GM Tsin, didn't you know?

Wanna buy a mace or some 6x/2x brig?

[Chelle]

Heh, if shes only playing 1 or 2 hours a day and not every day then it doesn't seem to me she's addicted. How many hours a day do you watch t.v.? Pay for cable perchance? I bet she pays less playing GS than you pay for Cable. Is there any real life gain to be had by watching Cable tv? Nope.

[DCSL]

Holy crap, I'd be so pissed with my boyfriend if he pulled something like this. Heck, if he pulled something like this, he wouldn't be my boyfriend.

Congratulations to the girl in question on finding a real winner.

[Snapp]

So who is this responsible persons fiance again?
That was my thought too. She posts (or at least reads here) and he posted something like that?

[HarmNone]

Heh. No kidding! If I were playing GemStone and engaged to someone with a business degree right now, I'd certainly be taking stock of my options. There ain't no way I'd want to find myself hooked to someone who was already complaining on an internet message board about the fact that I played at all! No thanks!

[DeV]

rofl@ this pathetic shit. Get laid or something.

[Back]

When DeV posts something like that... well, you’d better take her advice.

[Olanan]

I reaaallly think you guys are going way overboard.

[DCSL]

I reeeeaaally think he went overboard on his sweeping generalizations, insulting lack of forethought, and failure to restrain his overcontrolling urges.

[DeV]

"What drives me nuts is how real people are leveraging the mechanics (and virtual social standing) of a game world to exploit other real people of their real life money. This just seems wrong ethically."

... is all I have to say, Olanan.

p.s. See my previous post.

[FinisWolf]

Heh. I, too, was wondering if he's discussed this matter at so much length with his fiancee'. It sounds to me like he's passing judgement on her chosen form of entertainment, and finding it wanting in some way. If she's got any real moxey at all, I'd like to see this relationship a few weeks, months, years down the road. ;)

I'll put a million silver on the fact there will be no relationship if he wishes to be that MUCH of a control freak!

Finis

[DaLynched1]

I think the problem is that one night his wife told him she wouldn't put out unless he gave up $140 to buy 10 million silvers from Allen

[FinisWolf]

For the record, I've managed to get my Bachelors degree, Masters degree and RN qualification ...

Awesome! Congrats Chica! Belle and I just graduated from our CSU with our bacelor degrees. Hopefully the paper will come soon.

Respects,

Finis

[FinisWolf]

I think the problem is that one night his wife told him she wouldn't put out unless he gave up $140 to buy 10 million silvers from Allen

I was kinda thinking along these lines.

Their sex life falls between hour X and hour Y. She decided that GS is more satisfying, so he isn't getting any. :shrug:

Finis

[DaLynched1]

I was kinda thinking along these lines.

Their sex life falls between hour X and hour Y. She decided that GS is more satisfying, so he isn't getting any. :shrug:

Finis

It is a logical conclusion.

[FinallyDomesticated]

While I suppose it is nice that you did go to the trouble of checking out your girl's hobby and that you do show concern for strangers, I think you should work on your approach.

You posted that you basically checked us out and now want to impress us with your intellect as you give us unwanted advice. Would you have walked into a country club and given a speech about the dangers of golf addiction and money spent if she played golf? Or into a bar to lecture drunks if she was a drinker? Introducing yourself by giving advice is really never a great idea.

Does she know you entered her world and posted this advice? I hope you considered her feelings in this. Your approach could be embarassing for her. Also, in my opinion, your post had a bit of a 'I'm smarter and above you all' tone which is never an attractive thing to see in your fella.

Playing GS is just like anything else in life - a diverse group of people share a common pleasure. In that group, just like any other group, you are going to find idiots, intellects, employed, unemployed, attractive, unattractive, sane, psycho, etc.

Perhaps you should look into a hobby for yourself - something fun or relaxing, whatever fits your needs. You can focus on enjoying it instead of timing your girl's computer usage, checking out groups of strangers for problem areas, or getting made fun of on message boards.

Sincerely,

A Mostly Responsible Adult

[Stanley Burrell]

Someone who has a predisposition to allow a text-based internet game turn them into an overtly unhealthy, physically and/or psychologically [emotionally] human being, should not ever hold this particular facet of the internet responsible in allowing the hypothetical to occur (I also strongly feel that the reverse of the former concerning the general stability in person X may occur when sublimating through means of GemStone IV.)

In other news, my use of brackets, parentheses and various font tags makes me feel way more sophisticated than I ever should be.

[Stanley Burrell]

I have also noticed that many in the game cannot make this much virtual money in such a short period of time. What drives me nuts is how real people are leveraging the mechanics (and virtual social standing) of a game world to exploit other real people of their real life money. This just seems wrong ethically.

Business degree, you say?

Perhaps this speaks to a greater metaphor.

[FinisWolf]

While the gentleman argued against the spending of real life money to play (I know, I know ...) he missed the aspect that someone else is making money ... hmm ...

You can scratch your head now Responsible Adult.

Finis

[DaLynched1]

While I suppose it is nice that you did go to the trouble of checking out your girl's hobby and that you do show concern for strangers, I think you should work on your approach.

You posted that you basically checked us out and now want to impress us with your intellect as you give us unwanted advice. Would you have walked into a country club and given a speech about the dangers of golf addiction and money spent if she played golf? Or into a bar to lecture drunks if she was a drinker? Introducing yourself by giving advice is really never a great idea.

Does she know you entered her world and posted this advice? I hope you considered her feelings in this. Your approach could be embarassing for her. Also, in my opinion, your post had a bit of a 'I'm smarter and above you all' tone which is never an attractive thing to see in your fella.

Playing GS is just like anything else in life - a diverse group of people share a common pleasure. In that group, just like any other group, you are going to find idiots, intellects, employed, unemployed, attractive, unattractive, sane, psycho, etc.

Perhaps you should look into a hobby for yourself - something fun or relaxing, whatever fits your needs. You can focus on enjoying it instead of timing your girl's computer usage, checking out groups of strangers for problem areas, or getting made fun of on message boards.

Sincerely,

A Mostly Responsible Adult

If he did he wouldn't be ashamed to tell us who his "particularly advanced" wife is.

[FinisWolf]

"particularly advanced" wife

That could be taken SO WRONG. LOL

Finis

[Gan]

While the gentleman argued against the spending of real life money to play (I know, I know ...) he missed the aspect that someone else is making money ... hmm ...

You can scratch your head now Responsible Adult.

Finis

I just sold an unused character in my stable today to help finance the return of a character I had sold that is now coming back since the buyer/friend quit (again).

I'm thankful that people are willing to evaluate the cost/benefit of the time value of money, and the money value of time playing gemstone and spend their money wisely. For I dont mind wisely selling things that will assist others along expediently and efficiently in their gemstone journey.

I mean seriously, if this guy is a business major then he's totally overlooked the investment opportunities within Gemstone that is a natural by product of playing and enjoying the game. If thats the summation of his business acumen, perhaps he would have been better off with a liberal arts degree.

[Back]

Investment opportunities? Are you serious?

[Gan]

Quite serious.

Nothing like making money off of leisure time activities to recoup money spent. It doesnt have to be a market success rate of 20% annual return; however, since its an activity that you're going to reap utility from as a leisure activity, one might as well earn money back from it.

Think of it as a controlled game of poker, where you have fun and you might even earn some of your expenses back in winnings.

[Back]

But even with a capped char, you would not make as much money per hour spent as you would at minimum wage. Exaggerate much?

[Artha]

But it'll be tax free and you'll enjoy doing it, making it adequate compensation.

[mgoddess]

But even with a capped char, you would not make as much money per hour spent as you would at minimum wage.

Minimum wage is what, $5 or $6 an hour? I've heard of capped characters making a mil in silver an hour...which can turn around and be sold for $15 or more. $15 an hour is way over minimum wage. A minimum wage job at $5/hr for 8 hours a day is $40 a day. Compare that to playing a capped character making a mil in silver an hour for 8 hours....$15/hr for 8 hours makes $120 a day. No exaggeration, from the way I see it.

[Gan]

You know, I was actually going to be nice in my reply. But your last comment, <Exaggerate much?> was pretty snide, so if I sound snide in reply... then you'll know why.


But even with a capped char, you would not make as much money per hour spent as you would at minimum wage. Exaggerate much?

Not really, I dont need to exaggerate in order to get my point across, unlike you my monochromatic viewing neighbor. For just a quick second, stop what you're doing and try to think out of the box. Its good practice for when you actually get a real job and you have greater expectations placed upon you other than asking people what movie they would like to see.

Anything you do in life has investment potential. Have you ever had a garage sale? Thats an investment in selling off unwanted but useful items to help offset the cost of purchasing/maintaining said equipment. That is called getting a return on your investment. Unless you just happen to have a money tree in the back yard and you dont need to try to offset your consumption expenditures with some sort of financial gain.

Now apply that principal to a small facet of selling off an unused piece of gemstone gear or even an unused character. Will it net you a profit? Most times no, but it will offset the expense you have incurred in posessing said item or character. Those expenses include your monthly subscription dues, internet connection, etc.

One thing to consider, while you were incurring expenses in playing the game, you were also experiencing a non-quantifiable benefit - enjoyment or satisfaction (utility) which is a positive offset to monetary expenses. Thats the primary reason why you decided to spend the money to begin with right?

Now, on a larger scale... Say you were actually involved in merchanting within Gemstone. No matter the scope, small or large, and you happened to receive through purchase, gift, whatever, an account, character(s), or in demand items/gear. Say you decide to sell it. Go a step further and say you made a lot more on the sale than you spent in the procurement. Thats called a net profit or realized gain. TaDaaa! You made an investment that actually was ahead of expenses.

Last note, if you have an account with multiple characters, then you must spread the cost of the subscription among each of those characters in order to have a true cost accounting. So saying that every character in your 'stable' costs you 17 bucks a month is grossly inaccurate.

So yes, Gemstone can be an investment as well as a game, distraction, moment of enjoyment. There's more to financial life than just spending money, its spending it wisely and making a little money in return... or a lot depending on how good or lucky you are.

[Sean of the Thread]

But even with a capped char, you would not make as much money per hour spent as you would at minimum wage. Exaggerate much?


Just recouping the cost of playing is worth it. Premie account would be payed with a silly little amount of 3 million silvers which is okay by me for the entertainment I'm getting for nothing at the 3 mil point. Granted I made a lot more than that and was still completely bored with the game.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<But even with a capped char, you would not make as much money per hour spent as you would at minimum wage. Exaggerate much?>>

Depending on minimum wage in the area, I'd say it's at least possible.

[Sean of the Thread]

I'd say it's very possible.

[Stunseed]

Not even capped I used to average about 9.50/hr when playing ( if I had sold silvers ). I could more than likely fixskills back to that and continue an even better trend while enjoying a 2nd account. Technically, I think I could it off on both accounts if I really wanted to.

[Back]

Minimum wage is what, $5 or $6 an hour? I've heard of capped characters making a mil in silver an hour...which can turn around and be sold for $15 or more. $15 an hour is way over minimum wage. A minimum wage job at $5/hr for 8 hours a day is $40 a day. Compare that to playing a capped character making a mil in silver an hour for 8 hours....$15/hr for 8 hours makes $120 a day. No exaggeration, from the way I see it.

Given that a capped char can make 8 million silvers a day, that person will have to sell 8 million silvers a day. Possible? In the best circumstance. But not very realistic overall when you consider operating costs (subscription, computer, internet connection, electricity), how many people play, how much silver they generate...

If it were actually feasible to live off playing GS 8/5/52 without vacations we would know about it. Put simply, its just not.

[Back]

You know, I was actually going to be nice in my reply. But your last comment, <Exaggerate much?> was pretty snide, so if I sound snide in reply... then you'll know why.

Thanks for that lengthy well thought out reply, but my “snide” comment was about using the term “investment opportunity”. I think thats not only irresponsible, but incredibly stupid.

[Artha]

(subscription, computer, internet connection, electricity)
Assuming you're gaining nothing from these except the ability to play GS. Really, just defraying the cost would, I think, be adequate. After all, if you're making min. wage at another job, you've still got to pay for this stuff.

[FinisWolf]

When I was running my four wizards on four separate accounts all I charged was the cost of my subscription for the time I would spend doing the project (pro-rated accordingly). That alone made it to where I did not have to pay to play.

All other things I acquired/gained were bonuses. Be it items, silver, fun were all bonuses to that. And the items and silver (even the chars as they progressed) are an asset that can/could/have be/been sold.

So as poor of an investment GS is (as most will not do it 8/5/52), there is still a return on the initial investment.

Finis

[FinisWolf]

O ... and in Cali, minimum wage is $6.75.

So if you could do 500K an hour, your are making close to minimum wage in California.

Finis

[Sean of the Thread]

Back in the day I made SHITE loads of cash from UO. Was also fun as hell once upon a time.

[SpunGirl]

The first post here is one of the silliest things I have ever seen on these boards. I know it's just the internet and we don't all hang out in the traditional sense, but if my husband ever posted something like that in a community I consider myself a part of I'd be completely humiliated. Responsible Retard, I hope your fiancee drops you at once. I hate to say it, but she could probably do better with a cyber-romance.

-K, computer dork and happy wife of a very understanding jock

[Stretch]

I have a business degree as well, and using Gemstone as a means of earning a living is...stupid. Unless you happen to be one of maybe a dozen people who have enough items hoarded up to to play god with the market.

My capped rogue can make maybe 300k an hour, if I hunted for 45 minutes out of the hour. That's what, like $3? Would I buy silver? If I saw something I wanted badly enough, why not? Would I rather hunt for 3 months to save 60m, or spend half a paycheck to buy the silver?

In the time I've played Gemstone, I've sold perhaps $2,500 worth of silver for cash or Gift of Adventure. Was it really important for me to have that money? No, but it was certainly like free money to me, since I got it from doing something I enjoyed. The ROI for my time was negligible...I probably spent well over 1000 hours merchanting/hunting for that silver.

[Stanley Burrell]

I have a business degree as well, and using Gemstone as a means of earning a living is...stupid. Unless you happen to be one of maybe a dozen people who have enough items hoarded up to to play god with the market.

Stupid as one's primary source of income? Undoubtedly.

The micro-microeconomics of being an individual in GemStone who has hoarded up enough items to play god with the market speaks volumes to the fine system of capitalism that has developed as a means of providing certain individuals with a substantial improvements in revenue, by comparison to the average text-for-cash merchant.

[Ignot]

I play gemstone sometimes to escape from my girlfriend, maybe your fiance does the same thing? 1-2 hours a night isnt bad either...

[Stretch]

Shit, I forgot to make light of the fact that I mentioned that I have a business degree.

Didn't mean to make it sound like it meant something.

Oh well. Insert joke here about 4 years of not learning anything.

[Gan]

I have a business degree as well, and using Gemstone as a means of earning a living is...stupid. Unless you happen to be one of maybe a dozen people who have enough items hoarded up to to play god with the market.

My capped rogue can make maybe 300k an hour, if I hunted for 45 minutes out of the hour. That's what, like $3? Would I buy silver? If I saw something I wanted badly enough, why not? Would I rather hunt for 3 months to save 60m, or spend half a paycheck to buy the silver?

In the time I've played Gemstone, I've sold perhaps $2,500 worth of silver for cash or Gift of Adventure. Was it really important for me to have that money? No, but it was certainly like free money to me, since I got it from doing something I enjoyed. The ROI for my time was negligible...I probably spent well over 1000 hours merchanting/hunting for that silver.

I dont think anyone is touting the viability of using Gemstone as a means of making a living on. I even explored that in another thread a little while back (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=19918).

What is being considered here, or at least my aim, was to give credit to the fact that the ROI you receive from cashing out on gemstone items and characters is higher than negligible because you would have spent that time utility seeking anyways. Your time was spent pleasure seeking, not seeking a work/reward activity that would constitute job like characteristics. So accuracty in how you view your time spent in game is tantamount to consideration of your ROI.

What I'm having a hard time finding, for comparitive purposes, is a hobby or activity where you can spend the hours you can at Gemstone for the minimal level of investment that a basic subscription cost, and then turn around and sell off the products of your enjoyment at the end of the activity. Especially when you consider depreciation of physical equipment for other hobbies through long term use(golf clubs, bats/gloves, etc.).

That reason alone is why I said there is an investment opportunity when considering the effort and time spent playing Gemstone. For some people, its an opportunity to recoup some expenses experienced through subscription fees. For others (ala Tsin et. al) it can result in considerable amounts of monetary reward.

[Sean of the Thread]

Shit, I forgot to make light of the fact that I mentioned that I have a business degree.

Didn't mean to make it sound like it meant something.

Oh well. Insert joke here about 4 years of not learning anything.


You learned how to hug dudes at events and post pictures of it! Don't feel so empty handed pal!

[RichardCranium]

What I'm having a hard time finding, for comparitive purposes, is a hobby or activity where you can spend the hours you can at Gemstone for the minimal level of investment that a basic subscription cost, and then turn around and sell off the products of your enjoyment at the end of the activity.

Collecting ( i.e. stamps, baseball cards, comics ) if you travel to buy or sell and frequent conventions and things of that nature. Maybe not on par with the hours that can be spent on Gemstone to show any type of return, but not too far from it.

[FinisWolf]

So, what have we all learned from this thread?
















Absolutely nothing we all already didn't know. :whistle:

Finis