The tank build

[Lucas]

Thinking about making a tank build (I don't know if anyone else has done this). Basically, a char in plate/max shield (3x)/Max dodge(2x-3x)/cman block/parry mastery 5 ranks/and 3x PT for the redux. And if I can get my hands on some crit padded plate, that too. How does this sound? Is it viable from 1-100?

[Ignot]

I have never made a character like this so I am sure others will have better input but I would not think you would need to max dodge as being in plate will make the benefits pretty nil aft 1x.

[StrayRogue]

No, it doesn't. The penalties for wearing heavy armour in regards to dodge, are hardly anything major. I believe Porcell did a post on it on the rogue boards some weeks back.

[OoK]

Full Plate in combination with a Tower Shield... that will pretty much kill your Dodge DS.

Full Plate and no shield, Dodge will be pretty darn sweet.

I was just debating the other day. I can either go from 0x up to 2x in Brawling, or I can go from 2x up to 3x in Dodge.

The Dodge will increase my offensive stance DS by about 70 points.

Right now I'm going the brawling route so I can use Fu.

-OoK

[GuildRat]

OK, the dodge vs shield thing kills me.....so...answer this, what's the best combination of the two DS'wise. I don't really care too much about the block/dodge effect because for me, to not be hit in offensive is the best solution. Right now I'm pretty much 1.8'd in dodge and 1.3 in shield and have a 452 DS (with spells and a statue) in offensive one on one in the barrier. Can this be improved upon by shanking one skill for the other? It'd be nice.

Anyone?

[DrZaius]

I think Latrinstorm's build is similar to this; you should wait for them to post and see what they have to say on the matter.

[OoK]

OK, the dodge vs shield thing kills me.....so...answer this, what's the best combination of the two DS'wise.

Okay, here's some numbers.

I assume 3x dodge and 3x Shield. AGI, INT, STR, and DEX bonuses are all set to 25, just to be even. Variance in these numbers will change things a little. Also considering the player to be in Full Plate (35 action penalty, 17.5% dodge penalty). I'm not sure how that 17.5% rounds, so I'm just using 17.5% so things may be off a little.

So given that, the Dodge DS Base is 334 [(303 + 25 + 25/4)] and the Shield DS Base is 210 [(303 + 25/4 + 25/4)/1.5].

Now you have to add the penalties, I'll be running numbers in an offensive stance. Starting with a Small Shield, for Dodge is it 334 * 0.75 * 0.78 *0.825 for a total of 160. Shield DS is 210 * 0.50 * 0.85 - 5 for a total of 84. Total DS from Shield and Dodge is 244.

Medium shield. Dodge is it 334 * 0.75 * 0.70 *0.825 for a total of 144. Shield DS is 210 * 0.50 * 1.00 for a total of 105. Total DS from Shield and Dodge is 249.

Large Shield. Dodge is it 334 * 0.75 * 0.62 *0.825 for a total of 127. Shield DS is 210 * 0.50 * 1.15 + 5 for a total of 125. Total DS from Shield and Dodge is 252.

Tower Shield. Dodge is it 334 * 0.75 * 0.54 *0.825 for a total of 111. Shield DS is 210 * 0.50 * 1.30 + 10 for a total of 146. Total DS from Shield and Dodge is 257.

Not too much difference.

Now in defensive stance.

Small shield: 214 + 173 = 387
Medium Shield: 192 + 210 = 402
Large Shield: 170 + 246 = 416
Tower Shield: 148 + 283 = 431

-OoK

[Boris]

Now in defensive stance.

Small shield: 214 + 173 = 387
Medium Shield: 192 + 210 = 402
Large Shield: 170 + 246 = 416
Tower Shield: 148 + 283 = 431

-OoK

As a square, who cares about in defensive stance.

[Sylvan Dreams]

My warrior is 140 ranks of armor, 1.5x dodge, 3x pt and working on 3x shield, with 3 ranks of both block mastery and parry mastery, a tower shield and heavily damage padded plate. I'll be more than happy to post any hunting clips if you want.

[Bobmuhthol]

I'm getting 109, 125, 125, and 146 for offensive shield DS from my calculator. It assumes the +20 shield DS, and there's no -5 DS penalty on a small shield from what I remember.

Maybe I fucked it up very badly, but I tested this calculator out a lot before I compiled it and I no longer have the source.

[Lucas]

My warrior is 140 ranks of armor, 1.5x dodge, 3x pt and working on 3x shield, with 3 ranks of both block mastery and parry mastery, a tower shield and heavily damage padded plate. I'll be more than happy to post any hunting clips if you want.
-Sylvan Dreams

Yeah, post some up wouldya.

[OoK]

My numbers did not include the innate +20 or any shield enchantments.

I believe Small shields do get a -5 to DS, Mediums are 0, Larges are +5, Towers are +10.

"Five DS is added for each size greater than medium, while small shields have a reduction of 5 DS."

-OoK

[Bobmuhthol]

I remember a while ago there was a post on the officials by a GM saying that they changed the DS mods for shields, and actually gave large shields +15 and tower shields +10 as the innate DS, with small and medium retaining the +20. I think it was to balance out the vast advantage of a tower shield over a small shield. My calculator reflects that, I remember, so either I'm crazy or it's something that's often overlooked.

[Stanley Burrell]

Okay, here's some numbers.

I assume 3x dodge and 3x Shield. AGI, INT, STR, and DEX bonuses are all set to 25, just to be even. Variance in these numbers will change things a little. Also considering the player to be in Full Plate (35 action penalty, 17.5% dodge penalty). I'm not sure how that 17.5% rounds, so I'm just using 17.5% so things may be off a little.

So given that, the Dodge DS Base is 334 [(303 + 25 + 25/4)] and the Shield DS Base is 210 [(303 + 25/4 + 25/4)/1.5].

Now you have to add the penalties, I'll be running numbers in an offensive stance. Starting with a Small Shield, for Dodge is it 334 * 0.75 * 0.78 *0.825 for a total of 160. Shield DS is 210 * 0.50 * 0.85 - 5 for a total of 84. Total DS from Shield and Dodge is 244.

Medium shield. Dodge is it 334 * 0.75 * 0.70 *0.825 for a total of 144. Shield DS is 210 * 0.50 * 1.00 for a total of 105. Total DS from Shield and Dodge is 249.

Large Shield. Dodge is it 334 * 0.75 * 0.62 *0.825 for a total of 127. Shield DS is 210 * 0.50 * 1.15 + 5 for a total of 125. Total DS from Shield and Dodge is 252.

Tower Shield. Dodge is it 334 * 0.75 * 0.54 *0.825 for a total of 111. Shield DS is 210 * 0.50 * 1.30 + 10 for a total of 146. Total DS from Shield and Dodge is 257.

Not too much difference.

Now in defensive stance.

Small shield: 214 + 173 = 387
Medium Shield: 192 + 210 = 402
Large Shield: 170 + 246 = 416
Tower Shield: 148 + 283 = 431

-OoK

I am fully tripled in shields and 2.5ish in dodge. Before my last FIXSKILLS, I had only 40 ranks in dodging.

The DS "disadvantage" in plate armor after I fixskilled with star and board is nothing that discourages me from training otherwise, since the majority of critters I hunt will put up clouds, boil, thorn, etc.

I have seen a tremendous difference in evading non-critter room bolts with more dodge when I've needed it much more than DS when plated up.

As an aside, messing around in mages tower shieldless has proved extremely fatal from the DS pushdown against targeted bolt spells.

[Meges]

You're right about the innate ability of shields Bob.


Meges

[Latrinsorm]

to not be hit in offensive is the best solution.Without spells, you'll always be hit in offensive DS-wise. EBP is your friend, as is overwhelming offense. You will get more DS for dodge than shield, rank for rank.

It's absolutely impossible to train in the stated plan from level 0 onward. The TPs just aren't there. 1.5x armor, 3x shield, 2x dodge, and 3x PF costs you 58/14. That's doable. Weapon skills and CM are pretty tough to fit in though (and they're sorta important). I'd recommend starting out with 3x shield and working dodge up. 2x CM is much, much, much more useful than a few more DS from dodge.

My tank warrior's build is 2.5x armor (3xed to MBP), 3x shield, 3x PF, .5x dodge (to 1x as points allow), 2x CM, 2x Edged, .5x MoC, and then .5x climb, swim, survival, and first aid. Dropping the auxiliaries would let you pick up a little more Dodge or maybe a little more redux, but the benefits of informed herb use cannot be overstated.

Crit padding in plate is wholly unnecessary. Some people claim it helps vs. maneuvers. I've never seen any actual proof of this, but even if it is true things that can maneuver warriors are few and far between. If you decide to go hunt OTF, maybe crit padding would be a good idea.
I believe Small shields do get a -5 to DS, Mediums are 0, Larges are +5, Towers are +10.That sounds like vs. ranged. Towers get a penalty to melee DS from what I remember.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<You're right about the innate ability of shields Bob.>>

<3 Thank you.

[Apathy]

It's a cool idea and it will work, but I don't think it will change the fact that the warrior who 3x trains armor 2x shield and .5x dodge will be just as effective against TD spells and will have way more extra skills than you.

If it works for the idea of the character you have in your head, go for it - seems like it could be fun to roleplay. If you're doing it just because you want to create a defense tank character mechanics-wise, I would think a paladin is the route to go.

[Latrinsorm]

Everyone stinks at tanking compared to a warrior. Paladins stink less than everyone else, but they still stink. If warriors had 65/50 TPs from level 0, this plan would be great.

[Warriorbird]

Boring but viable.

[Lucas]

Not too boring, you couldn't die. And with MIU use you would literally be a walking tank (TD boosts from spells etc.).

[Latrinsorm]

you couldn't die.Warriors are basically invulnerable to AS/DS hits that aren't flaring anyway, and you're not going to be able to muster enough offensive DS to be safe from serious flarers.

Regardless of training plan, level, and gear, every character can die.

[OoK]

Warriors are basically invulnerable to AS/DS hits that aren't flaring anyway, and you're not going to be able to muster enough offensive DS to be safe from serious flarers.


Are you talking about in an OTF setting? I'm a rogue and can manage and offensive stance DS of around 450 and a TD that gives Adepts at most a 5% chance of warding (and often times no chance).

-OoK

[Latrinsorm]

Aren't you ranged though? Isn't that the only point I need to make?

[Lucas]

offensive stance DS of around 450

Exactly how do you manage this, whats the training plan?

[OoK]

Exactly how do you manage this, whats the training plan?

2x dodge, 2x ranged, 2x perception, giant, 100s in stats (89 in INF and 91 in INT). 401, 406, 414, 101, 107, 103, 202, 503, 911, 712, Courage, Protection, 5x full plate.

-OoK

[Artha]

Outside spells are lame.

[Latrinsorm]

Not as lame as ranged and/or rogues.

[Olanan]

Not as lame as ranged and/or rogues.

How do you figure that one?

At least it breaks the monotony of OHE rogues.

[Artha]

Hunting in Gemstone will always be monotonous.