To Steal or not to Steal.... ?

[Tromp]

In my opinion, RP'ing a true thief/pick pocket is pretty straight forward. Yeah you can put twists on it but the main thing is you steal and try not to get caught. The Guild is kind of like the mafia (again IMO) as in go about your business but pay homage to the local powers that be. One member doesn't tell the other member where and when to do his business or earn a living.

That being said, why the f@ck is some a$$hat scolding people for getting their own in lock picking spots like the Mule's well or Landing's East Tower? Everyone who goes in there that isn't a lockpick knows that they are visiting the dragons den in terms of thiefs. It's friggin expected.

I'm just wondering what some of you think on this matter that play a rogue/thief/bandit.

Name of said a$$hat withheld for now.... :tool:

[Wezas]

I think the main issue is the rogues there that are picking feel like you're taking away from their tip. Or they could just be totally against pickpocketing.

When I was a pickpocket (empath, not rogue) I didn't do it in lockpicking areas. Sure there's gems out, but it's high risk on being called out by rogues with tons of perception and pickpocket skill.

[Asha]

Besides.. and to quote PB, '' a locksmith worth any salt would have taken his tip already ''.
So yeah. you're fucked from the get-go.

[DrZaius]

I just think that people get really annoyed by those sorts of tactics. I mean, what's the point of getting my chest picked in the tower if I lose all the silvers I earned in the hunt? Now, stealing from people who give bad tips- that's another matter.

[Numbers]

Whenever I go to the tower to get my boxes picked, which isn't often, I always empty out my containers of any gems and deposit all my silvers. I go in, get all of my boxes picked, don't take a thing out of them. When I'm done, I tell the picker that I'll be right back, go off and get all the treasure from the boxes, withdraw a note for a tip, and then return and give that note to the picker. Anyone walking into the tower with coins and gems on them, or even worse, empties out their boxes right there and then, are asking to be stolen from.

On a related note, my baby thief is about level 11 now, doubled in thieving and hiding. When's a good time to start lifting purses without getting seen by everyone?

[Stunseed]

< When's a good time to start lifting purses without getting seen by everyone? >

I've heard about 18-20 trains is when you've actually got a decent chance. It's a shame mine is in Illistim, I wager with 80 ranks of pickpocket I could do some decent damage to the Landing/IceMule/Solhaven area.

[Wezas]

yeah, I'd wait until at least level 20 (if you're doubling) for a decent chance.

[Drew]

Icemule at least you get called for it if you steal in at the picking well. East tower though is a free for all.

[Chelle]

IMHO, Rogues should have a few places where pickpocketing is off limits. Such as the lockpicking areas. Outside of there then anyone is free game. I had a lil rogue for a lil while and I made that my policy.

....

3704558, that is very wise of you, but seems like a lot of trouble to go through.

[Drew2]

My favorite thing to do with Tayre was to go to level 30-40 hunting spots and openly steal things from people hunting there.

If they see you, so what? No law.

Especially fun when they try and attack you. (Hint: Tayre is level 74)

[Leetahkin]

If rogues are concerned with getting stolen from while lockpicking, they can go to a table and pick.
Or have a great amount of perception.

[Numbers]

3704558, that is very wise of you, but seems like a lot of trouble to go through.

It's really not that much trouble at all. In fact it's more convenient. Whenever I stop into town, my usual routine is to first sell off all my stuff and deposit my coins anyway. And by tipping the picker after I've sold off all the stuff from the boxes, I'm able to give a more accurate tip. Plus, from what I can tell, pickers seem to prefer getting their tips in note form as opposed to heavy and stealable coins.

[Parkbandit]

Some rogues feel that if the tower (one place in particular) was over run by thieves, then the common folks wouldn't come there to hire a quality locksmith.

Personally, my experience with the common folk taught me that they were too dumb to really be gone for long.. that no matter what happened, they would continue to come back time and again.

[Tromp]

Personally, my experience with the common folk taught me that they were too dumb to really be gone for long.. that no matter what happened, they would continue to come back time and again.

I agree 100%.

Until someone is designated the "Don" of the picking areas, it is free game for anyone to pilfer whatever they want anywhere they want. Come to think about it, if someone has a problem with pilfering the customers in the "picking areas", maybe someone should try to RP the "Don" of the picking areas and demand payment from customers and smiths in order to keep things in order.

That to me should be the RP, not some bull$h1t reason like spoiling it for other.

[DrZaius]

That to me should be the RP, not some bull$h1t reason like spoiling it for other.

Obviously if someone has an open gempouch or something of that nature, it's fair game. However, for the sake of simplicity, I believe a lot of people feel the tower is 'off limits', because it's easier to empty your chests and throw them in the bin in the tower than it is to run all over the place trying to protect your silver. Just steal in the park.

[Hulkein]

I love robbing people in the East Tower.

[Kuyuk]

I never had a problem in the east tower with stealing. But I was usually as old as most of the pickers <shrug>

And a rogue. (but I didnt steal there!)

K.

[Jolena]

If rogues are concerned with getting stolen from while lockpicking, they can go to a table and pick.
Or have a great amount of perception.

I don't think the concern is from rogues thinking they will be stolen from, but instead, for the issue of their customers being stolen from while the rogue is working on their boxes. It could potentially cause a person to stop coming to the east tower for locksmithing in order to avoid the thieving.

That being said, when Jolena was locksmithing a great deal and would spend time in the east tower, I always understood it to be a 'unwritten rule' that rogues don't steal from other rogues on principle. Unless of course, there is a issue between two rogues, then of course all bets are off. However, there is always the exception to the rule, I'm sure. It was just how Jolena was taught things went. You don't steal from other rogues and you don't accept tips from other rogues for locksmithing their boxes. :shrug:

[War Angel]

I dont mind pickpockets stealing things from peoples open containers. If I leave it open, and lose something, stupid me.
What I do take issue with, and feel is wrong is using 416 to find out what's in a box, and then using rstealth to steal peoples boxfound items and stash them, without them ever knowing they had something.
I never even considered this could happen, and I am bothered and annoyed that same time. I feel it's incredibly wrong to do this to customers.
I, of course will make sure never to hand the rogue discussing this method of "theiving", my boxes ever again.
If my cloak is open, and my gempouch is dangling, take everything I have, you deserve it, but don't steal from customers boxes.
My opinion, of course, will always vary from others. :)

[Alfster]

The best way to do it is just to wedge the thing open and then take their precious stuff out of there

hehe

[Fission]

The best way is to make your own rogue and then you don't have to tip, much less deal with any of the thieves again.

Used to tip 50% coins plus all scarabs, now I get to keep everything - works far better that way.

[Stunseed]

I wonder what level my rogue is going to need to pick Plane 1, if tripled in pick/disarm.

[Gan]

Stunseed, I'm guessing between 120 and 150 ranks in lock/traps for plane 1. I could be overestimating though.

As far as stealing, I used to be tripled in it. I just hated that the points bit into something I found more useful like combat manuevers. Thieving is fun, as long as your character RP is prepared for how the public reacts to thievery in general. Being in a leadership position in an PRO and being a known thief is not conducive to the first... Thus I did not ply the trade enough for the skill to have priority against combat or picking skills.

The only thing I hate is when a thief is blatantly pathetic at the skill and yet still does it anyway (like Foxs or Kritz) and their idea of RP when caught is to make sure that the target is young enough not to be able to retaliate when the instance escalates to violence. These are the guys who give talented pocket lighteners a bad name.

[AestheticDeath]

What I do take issue with, and feel is wrong is using 416 to find out what's in a box, and then using rstealth to steal peoples boxfound items and stash them, without them ever knowing they had something.
I never even considered this could happen, and I am bothered and annoyed that same time. I feel it's incredibly wrong to do this to customers.
I, of course will make sure never to hand the rogue discussing this method of "theiving", my boxes ever again.

Who was discussing this? And who the heck does it? I don't think I have ever seen a rogue casting at my boxs... I dont think it would go over well.

[Kuyuk]

<The only thing I hate is when a thief is blatantly pathetic at the skill and yet still does it anyway (like Foxs or Kritz) and their idea of RP when caught is to make sure that the target is young enough not to be able to retaliate when the instance escalates to violence. These are the guys who give talented pocket lighteners a bad name.>

I do that.

[Back]

It's really not that much trouble at all. In fact it's more convenient. Whenever I stop into town, my usual routine is to first sell off all my stuff and deposit my coins anyway. And by tipping the picker after I've sold off all the stuff from the boxes, I'm able to give a more accurate tip. Plus, from what I can tell, pickers seem to prefer getting their tips in note form as opposed to heavy and stealable coins.


No, its no trouble at all, though I use ‘inf’ to keep track of my silvers while waiting for my boxes to be opened, and depending on the race of the picker tip anywhere from 100-1000 a box. So far, no thieves, and no refusals on return visits.

As for low level thieves getting caught, I turn them in. I figure a hefty fine hurts worse than a deed at their level.

[War Angel]

Who was discussing this? And who the heck does it? I don't think I have ever seen a rogue casting at my boxs... I dont think it would go over well.

https://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=6&topic=13&message=334

In case the link doesn't work ...
Head on over to Gemstone Forums/Game Design Discussions/Treasure Systems/Post 334

I HAVE had people cast at my boxes, but I never thought much of it, until now.

[ELO]

No, its no trouble at all, though I use ‘inf’ to keep track of my silvers while waiting for my boxes to be opened, and depending on the race of the picker tip anywhere from 100-1000 a box. So far, no thieves, and no refusals on return visits.

As for low level thieves getting caught, I turn them in. I figure a hefty fine hurts worse than a deed at their level.

It doesn't. The fines for theft are a joke.

[Back]

It doesn't. The fines for theft are a joke.

But you don’t need deeds until level 10. Right?

[Jolena]

Yep.

[ELO]

But you don’t need deeds until level 10. Right?

Ahh, that's right. I didn't read this :


As for low level thieves getting caught...

[Androidpk]

Kritz is a tool

*my 2 cents*

[Numbers]

Kind of off-topic, but how essential are combat maneuvers for a rogue? Right now my baby rogue is 1x in CM, but I really really wanted to be a 3x picker/disarmer. With the combat maneuvers in there, though, I could only manage 2.5x in picking and disarming. I'm currently putting my cman points into smastery, which I haven't gotten much use from at such a low level. Would it be worth it to dump the CM and go full 3x picking/disarm, or would that be a poor tradeoff?

[Jolena]

Eh..noone really *needs* Cmans. My rogue has sidebyside, wspec1, surge, smastery and coupe, as well as a few ranks in cmovement that I needed for smastery. I don't have to have them to hunt. Its really just a personal preference. If you want your primary source of experience to be locksmithing, I would invest in that and the rest of it just consider extra perks. If you wish to hunt as your primary, then put your points in CM's.

[Gan]

Kind of off-topic, but how essential are combat maneuvers for a rogue? Right now my baby rogue is 1x in CM, but I really really wanted to be a 3x picker/disarmer. With the combat maneuvers in there, though, I could only manage 2.5x in picking and disarming. I'm currently putting my cman points into smastery, which I haven't gotten much use from at such a low level. Would it be worth it to dump the CM and go full 3x picking/disarm, or would that be a poor tradeoff?

If picking is your focus, drop cman and dodge, pull up to 3x locks/traps then split the remaining points between cman and dodge.

Cman ranks also contribute to AS/DS if I'm not mistaken, I cant recall the exact totals though.

[Gan]

The only thing I hate is when a thief is blatantly pathetic at the skill and yet still does it anyway (like Foxs or Kritz) and their idea of RP when caught is to make sure that the target is young enough not to be able to retaliate when the instance escalates to violence. These are the guys who give talented pocket lighteners a bad name.



I do that.

You must feel proud then. As a player of a rogue I give you thanks for diverting undue and unwanted attention from those of us who choose to ply the trade more discreetly and with greater taste.

[Bobmuhthol]

I stole a lot of shit in the east tower.

I give an A+ to anyone else who does it.

And no, none of my characters ever go into the tower to get their boxes picked.

[Artha]

Best stealing ever was when Shay was in the stocks.

[Doughboy]

My my rogue used to suc....er, pick. I'd steal from each customer at least two or three times. Especially the ones who opened up boxes right in front of my character. That just like saying, "Here take this diamond and these silvers. I really don't want them."

[Andrath]

See now the twist that the GM's could add is if they implemented experience for stealing and ranks for items, like item levels which would help organize treasure and profit margins in hunting areas...now that would be something, if they give exp for stealing then it'll be another alternative way to train. So someone who picks,steals and forges or fletches might be able to gain a smooth few levels just from alternative skills...hey, gives young wizzies and sorcs a boost in exp huh?

[ELO]

...now that would be something, if they give exp for stealing then it'll be another alternative way to train.

And retardedly easy to abuse.

It's already been suggested before. It's not going to happen.

Edited to say: I'd have capped long ago.

[DrZaius]

Giving experience for stealing from other players. THAT'S gonna go over real well.

[Fission]

Give experience for killing thieves, too, and I'd be all for it.

[Gan]

Its interesting that stealing from players is not an option in wow (at least that I know of). Especially on PvP servers where its a foregone conclusion that you're going to have conflict with other players at some point.

I wonder what their reasoning was behind that...

And I wonder if SIMU would consider that that particular skill leads to inevitable PvP, or more appropriately CvC, which they seem to want to discourage, sometimes with great enthusiasim.

[Apathy]

See now the twist that the GM's could add is if they implemented experience for stealing and ranks for items, like item levels which would help organize treasure and profit margins in hunting areas...now that would be something,

Err...did you formerally play DragonRealms?

If you did, why would you want that to happen again?

If you didn't, go look it's over there. You can witness the retardation that has become the stealing system (it completely sucks). One major reason I left. Thieves in DR (not rogues, Thieves) find themselves having to run from store to store in a town, stealing fucking envelopes, then leaving before they get arrested with some stupid huge fine/lose all their class bonuses and go to another town to repeat the process all over.

Really not fun.

[Artha]

I wonder what their reasoning was behind that...
Probably since there's no money banking system, it'd be really easy to grief noobs/afk people by spamming pick pockets with a lvl 60 rogue.

[Andrath]

no i mean your level and their level, their perception and a droll along with something for item difficulty, so if your getting a gem worth 32coins from a level 5 when your level 60 their perception gives a bonus to catching you but still not enough...you would maybe only get 1 exp or so..or put a within 20level cap on it, that'd fix alot...

I still think its a good idea. Any does anyone know when we're gonna be able to forge armor? or can we?

[StrayRogue]

The above....sentence (if you could call it that) makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[Artha]

no i mean your level and their level, their perception and a droll along with something for item difficulty, so if your getting a gem worth 32coins from a level 5 when your level 60 their perception gives a bonus to catching you but still not enough...you would maybe only get 1 exp or so..or put a within 20level cap on it, that'd fix alot...

How to script from level 1 - 20, 20-40, etc.

start:
put steal %1
put give %1 100
waitfor You
goto start

[ELO]

I still think its a good idea.

It's not, though.

[Andrath]

Ah, party pooters, there you are Artha..there'd be time in between stealing..bah, i dont know forget it