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War Drums
07-05-2006, 08:34 PM
So I was reading through some of the other boards and recently the making coins thread. From these readings, it seems that warriors are consistently singled out (meaning they don't seem to have any use).

Not talking about hunting viability (I hunt fine and I'm almost 50), but talking about contributing something to other players. I mean everyone else has a niche skill (Rangers got resistance padding, Bards got gem purification, Rogues got versatility/picking, Empaths got skinning/healing, Wizards obviously got enchanting) I mean it seems warriors just don't seem to have contributing skill. If this was D&D warriors would be the best killers but they aren't even that in GS.

So I ask you what use does a warrior have?

Suppa Hobbit Mage
07-05-2006, 08:35 PM
Best redux?

Stretch
07-05-2006, 08:40 PM
Warriors can assess. Weak? Maybe. Also handy to have in a group hunt.

Warriors also provide empaths with valuable exp!

Things2Come
07-05-2006, 08:42 PM
Armor/Weapon assessing.. They're the only profession who can determine the amount.

Bobmuhthol
07-05-2006, 08:46 PM
Warriors don't need to do a damn thing for another player, and certainly don't need any sort of pussy magic enhancements.

And I get plenty of money hunting.

Stanley Burrell
07-05-2006, 09:25 PM
Armor/Weapon assessing.. They're the only profession who can determine the amount.

I always thought that bards could loresing to weapons and armor to determine the amount of weighting or padding on an item as well, erghmphf?

I just want the new Teras area to spontaneously appear so that I can not be stuck with mages, which are a total bitch to hunt as a warrior with crap for elemental TD.

Khariz
07-05-2006, 09:26 PM
My buddies don't seem to mind my warcries jacking up their AS either.

Stanley Burrell
07-05-2006, 09:28 PM
My buddies don't seem to mind my warcries jacking up their AS either.

Warcries are an extremely useful PvP tool, but not what I would call reliable or highly useful, by any means, as a longer-than-short term hunting utility (especially so for the non-grouped solo hunter.)

GuildRat
07-05-2006, 09:35 PM
Sorry, as far as professions go....warriors are the most worthless. As far as RP and fun go? One of the best.

Stanley Burrell
07-05-2006, 09:36 PM
The strung out chihuahua has spoken.

All hail.

Sylvan Dreams
07-05-2006, 09:38 PM
Warriors can guard/protect.

Hulkein
07-05-2006, 09:54 PM
Warriors can cman headbutt random people's skulls until they collapsed when they walked by the North Gate....

At least that's what Hulkein did.

Latrinsorm
07-05-2006, 09:55 PM
Bards can only determine if weighting/padding exist, not how much the item in question has.

Warriors don't have much to offer the other, lesser professions. Guard/protect is inferior to a well-placed feint (or ewave) in pretty much every circumstance. Batter is vastly inferior to wedges (which is pretty dumb if you think about it, but I don't want to digress). Assess is pretty much all we have. We far surpass every other profession with our ability to take a hit, but that's not really a reliable way of defending someone else. If we had a MEATSHIELD verb to augment guard/protect, that would be pretty key.

Anecdotally, my empath doesn't see a preponderance of warriors.

Meges
07-05-2006, 09:56 PM
Bards can see whether or not padding/weighting on an item exists, but that is all. Only warriors can see the amount of padding/weighting.

Warriors are good first characters for players to choose, because it does not really take much thought to type KILL KILL KILL, but after that, they do seem to be a dead end. Obviously, for some, this is not true. However, in my personal experience, that's how I found it. I have/had (2 converted to paladin) three warriors of various skill levels. One level 25, one level 50 and one level 80. I converted the two eldest because I simply never played them anymore in lieu of other professions.

Simply put, warriors are boring. They seem to be the jack of all trades when it comes to physical skills, but they cannot really master anything without significant cost, unlike rogues. So what if warriors can triple armor. Who cares about redux. All of that means jack when their TD is horribly low and a casting profession or creature gets a hold of them.

On the surface, that's my two cents. Obviously the discussion has a bit more depth than this, but this basically sums it up.


Meges

GuildRat
07-05-2006, 10:05 PM
<<So what if warriors can triple armor.>>

Paladins can too...but have a nifty spell to offset hinderance...Like I said, warriors are good for RP.

Stanley Burrell
07-05-2006, 10:09 PM
<<So what if warriors can triple armor.>>

Paladins can too...but have a nifty spell to offset hinderance...Like I said, warriors are good for RP.

1603 is nice for the wizard ET'ing heavier brands of encumbering armors.

GuildRat
07-05-2006, 10:12 PM
1603 is nice for the wizard ET'ing heavier brands of encumbering armors.

Ya lost me Stan, unless you meant 1603 is good for business when it comes to wizards enchanting for palaldins.

Stanley Burrell
07-05-2006, 10:15 PM
Heh, sorry!

I meant with respect to avoiding catastrophic when enchanting big man armors. That was tangent-y :-\

Boris
07-05-2006, 10:26 PM
Warriors are for pure RP. They don't have anything going for them, but they require a specially dedicated player to play them. By FAR the best RPer's in the game (at least those that I've interacted with) have been warriors.

*Warriors get played by people who like the underdog* Think about all the Rocky movies, and how people like cheering for the little guy. The warrior is the little guy. Broken, uncared for, no GM will touch the profession... but we still pull through we still play even though we can only juggle our weapons while our counterparts disintegrate people or gate to distant cities. We are WARRIORS! WE ARE PROUD ! .................................................. ..

(and dead during invasions)

Latrinsorm
07-05-2006, 10:27 PM
Warriors are good first characters for players to choose, because it does not really take much thought to type KILL KILL KILL, but after that, they do seem to be a dead end.Anyone who thinks this way isn't going to have much success as a solo warrior once ey gets past kiramon.
Who cares about redux. All of that means jack when their TD is horribly low and a casting profession or creature gets a hold of them.This would surprise me if it were not for your earlier statement.

Warriors are by no means an un-fun profession or mechanically inferior to others. There are only two areas where warriors noticeably lag: casting spells and being of use to other professions.

Latrinsorm
07-05-2006, 10:28 PM
Broken? Uncared for? I wish you were around when every third phrase out of a sorcerers mouth was "WARRIORSTONE IV".

StrayRogue
07-05-2006, 10:32 PM
Another stupid fucking Wah wah Warriors suck post from another PC noob.

Plz fuck off back to where you came from, you stupid idiot.

Alfster
07-05-2006, 10:36 PM
<your dumb post>

So I ask you what use does a warrior have?

Obviously not a brain

VorpalBlade
07-05-2006, 10:50 PM
Come on folks lets not kid ourselves here!! plz!! Face the facts. Warriors just plain suck, gods am I the only one seeing this? What can they do? Please please please tell me? They get DFredux ...oooo ..I'm scared now I can't even see it but it's there with the .53302019 to damage...Who cares? I mean, seriously I'm talking out of character...think about your dollars here. You play a profession that anyone else can mimick and do better, you get a high AS (big deal..and bards and paladins get higher)....You get these stupid dinky little cmans. Of which you can maybe master 6-7 during your whole career...good job you want a cookie? ... Ooo, bull rush +10 to AS yeah! We rock! ... Try animate dead or I get to raise a demon from hell to follow me and bite thieves. Oops, there comes a swarm, better go run and hide.... How about I cast a spell to explode everything in the room.

Warriors suck, they suck, they suck, they suck. Period.

GuildRat
07-05-2006, 10:52 PM
<<Warriors are by no means an un-fun profession or mechanically inferior to others. There are only two areas where warriors noticeably lag: casting spells and being of use to other professions.>>

Warriors are of plenty help to other professions, mostly empaths and clerics.
This isn't a mechanical fault however, but more a "I can sit here and take the abuse" fault. If most people that played warriors would learn to hunt them with "some" intelligence, the empaths would en masse, weep.

VorpalBlade
07-05-2006, 10:55 PM
Wait...theres one thing warriors are good at.

They're good at spending enormous silvers getting expensive armor and weapons to pad their inability to do anything useful. Yes, that is one thing they are absolutely smashing in.

Apathy
07-05-2006, 11:44 PM
Come on folks lets not kid ourselves here!! plz!! Face the facts. Warriors just plain suck, gods am I the only one seeing this? What can they do? Please please please tell me? They get DFredux ...oooo ..I'm scared now I can't even see it but it's there with the .53302019 to damage...Who cares? I mean, seriously I'm talking out of character...think about your dollars here. You play a profession that anyone else can mimick and do better, you get a high AS (big deal..and bards and paladins get higher)....You get these stupid dinky little cmans. Of which you can maybe master 6-7 during your whole career...good job you want a cookie? ... Ooo, bull rush +10 to AS yeah! We rock! ... Try animate dead or I get to raise a demon from hell to follow me and bite thieves. Oops, there comes a swarm, better go run and hide.... How about I cast a spell to explode everything in the room.

Warriors suck, they suck, they suck, they suck. Period.

We are all now dumber for having read that. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

Merji
07-05-2006, 11:45 PM
Warriors seem to be very useful, especially for Guard/Protect type of roleplay. They can sure smoosh stuff, and do cool headbutt stuff right? Also there is the huge muscle thing they have going on. There's something to be said for a bulging muscular frame.. They get to have special weapon bonding, that's got to be interesting. Mechanics wise they seem to be far more useful than empaths as far as hunting goes. Don't forget the neato warrior tricks, great rp tools, and constant entertainment if one desires it.

Artha
07-05-2006, 11:49 PM
Warriors would be useful with some sort of threat/aggro system. Being a tank only takes you so far when it's random who the critter swings at.

Stanley Burrell
07-05-2006, 11:59 PM
Broken? Uncared for? I wish you were around when every third phrase out of a sorcerers mouth was "WARRIORSTONE IV".

WarriorStone sounds way more cool than SorcererStone. Blegh.

Unless they (the sorcies) were trying to RP the whole arrogant pure-blooded Delf agenda... OOC'ish-ly... Then I must laugh at any sorcerer who felt had by a warrior.

I hope boneshatter gets the same nerf that 702 did.

Latrinsorm
07-06-2006, 12:38 AM
Who cares?Please learn what redux does/is, then get back to us. Your naïvety is charming in a sense, but begins to wear thin.
Ooo, bull rush +10 to AS yeah! While you're learning, a refresher in CMANs is in order. Bullrush is a takedown CMAN. You might be thinking of wspec, or your ellipses cortex may have become so overgrown as to preclude any rational thought. I don't know, I'm not a doctor.
Then I must laugh at any sorcerer who felt had by a warrior.We laughed as well. Even better were the warriors who proclaimed (at the same time, mind you) that Simutronics wanted to phase out the warrior profession via the "crippling" addition of stamina to guild skills. Everyone except for Nodyre has since realized that stamina isn't really a problem at all.

I do agree that WarriorStone is a pretty boss name, though.

Jolena
07-06-2006, 02:07 AM
Oh I dunno..this was pretty cool in my opinion.


A greater burrow orc swings a short sword at you!
Amazingly, Auvreaian manages to parry the attack with his star!

:heart: protect

Drew
07-06-2006, 03:01 AM
Warriors had crafting abilities before most other professions with sheaths.

Meges
07-06-2006, 05:06 AM
Anyone who thinks this way isn't going to have much success as a solo warrior once ey gets past kiramon.This would surprise me if it were not for your earlier statement.

Warriors are by no means an un-fun profession or mechanically inferior to others. There are only two areas where warriors noticeably lag: casting spells and being of use to other professions.

Please forgive me. You're 100% right. I left out the part where a *smart* warrior will first type STANCE OFF, then KILL, then STANCE DEF. That is, if people still "stance dance" anymore. From what I've seen and heard for the past few years, even that seems to have gone out of style.

What's that you say? Guild skills? GOD! The warriors' guild is a HUGE pain in the butt and basically a waste of time, especially now with CMANs. The guild was my biggest pet peeve of playing a warrior. My 80th level warrior had all skills mastered. My middle warrior had 2 mastered and quite a few more ranks in the other areas. The youngest has tackle nearly mastered, I think. I need to check. Man, I absolutely hated the guild, but I saw it as the only way to make it more interesting and beneficial during hunting. Alright, alright, so it's STANCE OFF, TACKLE CRITTER, KILL, KILL, KILL, STANCE DEF...wait until the critter stands up, then repeat if you didn't kill it. Regardless, even with the guild skills and CMANs, warriors are still boring. Especially for the first 60 or so levels.

Look, I'm not dogging anyone here. It's just my personal belief, based on my personal experience, from playing warriors for 11 years now...that warriors just plain suck as compared to the other professions. They have absolutely NOTHING to offer anyone else. Oh wait...sheaths. Sorry.

The other professions can offer useful and absolutely needful things to fellow adventurers. They have a myriad of ways to hunt. They can dabble and be rather effective in other skills and areas. If warriors were taken from the game, nothing would be lost...except the RP of a barbarian. Take clerics from the game. Take empaths from the game...ad naseum. I'm sure you see my point, even if you do not agree.

Also, simply look at the fame charts to see how mechanically effective warriors are. A newly capped warrior will likely have about a fifth to a third of the fame a newly capped wizard will have.


Meges

Meges
07-06-2006, 05:15 AM
On DFRedux...

There are a few spells that simply bypass this mechanic, thereby making it utterly useless. Yeah, it's cool seeing that 600+ AS hit a -20 DS warrior who has 70% redux (if that's even possible anymore -- I no longer keep up with those mechanics) and only seeing a little damage and a minor wound, but I see that as being nothing more than a parlor trick. In the end game, you either get pecked to death, or something that bypasses redux comes into play and you're dead a bit quicker.


Meges

Drew
07-06-2006, 05:20 AM
Also, simply look at the fame charts to see how mechanically effective warriors are. A newly capped warrior will likely have about a fifth to a third of the fame a newly capped wizard will have.



I'm not sure if this was the point that you were trying to make, but this is a good thing, generally means the warrior uphunted more than the wizard. Fame comes from killing lots of stuff your level or under, not from uphunting.

Meges
07-06-2006, 05:41 AM
Until my wizard hit the cap, he always uphunted. Yes, the more you kill, the more your fame goes up, which was my point exactly. Does it seem odd that a profession that generally has no use for mana, and thereby being unrestricted by such a thing, having lower fame than the professions that are limited by mana, and thereby having shorter hunts, yet having higher fame? (Kind of a confusing sentence, but you probably get my point).

Also, killing lesser skilled critters results in less fame per kill and you can only do that to a point until you no longer gain anything (10 levels). I understand your point to be that, because you're killing younger things, you kill more of them and therefore gain more fame than a warrior who kills a few things a bit older. But, because I don't think the other professions underhunt as much as you might think, I disagree with the premise of your statement altogether. At any rate, my goal concerning fame has always been to go with the oldest thing I could take on and kill as many as possible; more loot and more fame.


Meges

StrayRogue
07-06-2006, 06:56 AM
See what I mean about posting noobs.

Fucking idiots.

War Drums
07-06-2006, 07:14 AM
See what I mean about posting noobs.

Fucking idiots.


I don't think Meges is a noob, he's been playing a warrior a lot longer then anyone here has.

Secondly, I really wanted a logical discussion over warrior abilities. And I did this by strict comparison as to what a warrior's capabilities (to other professions or not) can or cannot do.

What we have thus far.

1.) Warriors offer little to nothing (short of RP charm)

2.) Warriors are not fun to play or at the minimum the least fun to play out of all the professions(popular opinion, this has been gathered by the number of people that play warriors (not many) and the total mechanical utilities that a warrior has that is unique to them (not many))

3.) Warriors have a strong cult following. Perhaps this is because some stubborn people stuck with it too long and their warrior is 50+ levels and they don't want to go start over. Possibly, the RP novelty. In all instances warriors like Stray or Latrinsorm are hardcore advocates.

Conclusion: Seriously, I think simu should consider a major overhaul of the profession. OR, I think they should just get rid of the profession entirely.

StrayRogue
07-06-2006, 07:30 AM
I wasn't referring to Meges. I was referring to you and VorpalBlade.

StrayRogue
07-06-2006, 07:33 AM
Oh and if you're going to whine about "what warriors have to offer anyone else", besides sheaths, AS boosts, DS boosts etc etc, tell me what Sorcerer's have to offer anyone else. Beyond scroll infusion and 420 (which a warrior can do himself), what can they do?

While rogues are the best pickers, they are not the ONLY profession who can viably pick. So what else can they do, hmmmm?

Paladins?

This whine is age old, and still as pointless as ever.

StrayRogue
07-06-2006, 07:34 AM
"Conclusion: Seriously, I think simu should consider a major overhaul of the profession. OR, I think they should just get rid of the profession entirely"

Please go and post your stupid conclusions on the official boards where it MIGHT make a difference.

Why people post this BS here is beyond me. It makes no difference on the Officials, so fuck knows what it will do here.

Doughboy
07-06-2006, 11:21 AM
My 80th level warrior had all skills mastered. My middle warrior had 2 mastered and quite a few more ranks in the other areas. The youngest has tackle nearly mastered, I think. I need to check. Man, I absolutely hated the guild, but I saw it as the only way to make it more interesting and beneficial during hunting

Look, I'm not dogging anyone here. It's just my personal belief, based on my personal experience, from playing warriors for 11 years now...that warriors just plain suck as compared to the other professions.

Also, simply look at the fame charts to see how mechanically effective warriors are. A newly capped warrior will likely have about a fifth to a third of the fame a newly capped wizard will have.


Meges


For somebody who hates warriors and thinks they suck. YOU PLAYED THEM FOR 11 YEARS!


And by the way, if you honestly believe the fame charts mean anything. Quit.

Bobmuhthol
07-06-2006, 12:00 PM
You swing a claidhmore at a roa'ter!
AS: +266 vs DS: +150 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +4 = +148
... and hit for 99 points of damage!
Masterful slash to the roa'ter's lower back!
Spinal cord and life are just memories now.
The roa'ter rolls over and dies.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

OTHER PROFESSIONS ARE BETTER THAN WARRIORS AT KILLING STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111

Snapp
07-06-2006, 12:07 PM
OR, I think they should just get rid of the profession entirely.
I'd be pretty pissed if they did that, as I love my warrior. Maybe you guys should convert to paladins if you're so unhappy with it? I think it's more personal preference, rather than "warriors are broken."

Sylvan Dreams
07-06-2006, 01:06 PM
Please forgive me. You're 100% right. I left out the part where a *smart* warrior will first type STANCE OFF, then KILL, then STANCE DEF. That is, if people still "stance dance" anymore. From what I've seen and heard for the past few years, even that seems to have gone out of style.

There's other stances besides offensive?

Edited to add:
What's the big fuss over if warriors have anything to 'offer' other professions? What makes a person worthwhile to be around isn't based on what they can offer you in terms of game mechanics. (Well, not for everyone, at least.)

Stanley Burrell
07-06-2006, 05:57 PM
Everyone except for Nodyre has since realized that stamina isn't really a problem at all.

He has posted completely linear mechanisms, from the little that I've read of him, thus far.

My main beefsteak, which I’ve capitalized upon, is that in the middle-upper levels, a warrior (especially a Volner) is going to have to follow a way more restrictive hunting pattern than any other profession in the game.

When I was the power-hunting Voln warrior, fine... Moaners, spectral warriors, banshees, wind wraiths, up-up-up... Rinse and repeat.

Once I started incorporating any facet of role-playing, which circled around my having citizenship to Teras (and I didn't want to follow the extremely narrow power-hunting path) I just wasn't satisfied at what I was seeing.

There are a lot of magical critters in GS. The warrior profession tends to suffer from being bopped on the head when unable to exploit a weakness in X critter with a higher % than other professions.

Honestly, I know that tanks will suffer less from carpal tunnel if they hunt the threadlike opportunity of plausible critters they have been given (usually with a B+ effectiveness vs. some of the other professions in these same narrow grounds, as well.) The issue I have is how wretchedly linear the training path for a warrior has become when location-based role-play becomes of mild importance.

Meges
07-06-2006, 10:04 PM
I don't think I hate warriors, and I'm sorry if I gave that impression. What I hate is the hand they've been dealt. I personally resolved this whole issue a long time ago when I decided to venture out and start playing other professions more seriously. It's not really as personal to me as I might make it seem. I just remember the arduous tasks in the guild. I mean, come on, most everyone has resorted to performing these tasks with scripts, because they're so extremely mundane and repetitive. I seem to remember hunting being just about as arduous, because it generally took a while to fry. Granted, I might not have used everything at my disposal as a warrior, but once I discovered what an offensive spell could do, and in the short amount of time it took to do it, I was hooked. I also think one of the biggest problems with warriors is the hard RT they have to live by. This only furthers the perception that warriors are useless in my mind. The other professions at least have the option for a soft RT.

Warriors do have the ability to learn spells, that's true. However, it's at an extreme cost. So it's not really viable for a warrior under 40 levels or so to really even contemplate without making some serious sacrifices. Additionally, learning spells has a negative impact on one of the warrior's best arguements for being a warrior; DFRedux. Spells directly affect DFRedux and they also indirectly affect DFRedux, because those massive amounts of TPs could be placed in a skill that would only boost the otherwise languishing natural padding.

Other professions on the whole have defensive and utilitarian spells at the very least to offer everyone else; including sorcerers and paladins. You already mentioned scroll infusion with sorcerers. I've been out of touch with that particular profession for a while now, but can't they enscroll armor and/or weapons as well, which provides a TD bonus to the user? Paladins can raise dead up to three times a day depending upon which training path they've chosen.


Meges

Latrinsorm
07-06-2006, 10:23 PM
Please forgive me. You're 100% right. I left out the part where a *smart* warrior will first type STANCE OFF, then KILL, then STANCE DEF. That is, if people still "stance dance" anymore. From what I've seen and heard for the past few years, even that seems to have gone out of style.It's gone out of style because letting a creature take a round is generally a bad idea.
The warriors' guild is a HUGE pain in the butt and basically a waste of time, especially now with CMANs.It's not necessary to train in the Guild, but it frees up quite a few CMAN points. The only painful parts of the warrior guild are finding partners in disarm, tackle dummies, and the early berserk reps. Tricks reps are notoriously easy and get you feint.
warriors are still boring.Boring and "a dead end" are completely different qualifications.
The other professions can offer useful and absolutely needful things to fellow adventurers.Nobody's argued that warriors provide a needed service to the community. The connection between that and mechanical inferiority is what's dumb.
There are a few spells that simply bypass this mechanic, thereby making it utterly useless.Yes, being able to completely ignore any non spell using creature's assaults is really useless. There are like two areas in the game where flares exist, and flares are the only thing that negates that statement.
In the end game, you either get pecked to death, or something that bypasses redux comes into play and you're dead a bit quicker.How nice for the .01% of the population in the end game (assuming your assessment is correct, which I doubt). My warrior does really good at level 6, I guess I can extrapolate from that to the entire game too, right?
I really wanted a logical discussion over warrior abilities.Nobody can take a hit as well as a warrior, period. Further, nobody is better at escaping from a debilitating injury (between berserk and mobility as well as the aforementioned hit-taking ability). Nobody is better at using multiple weapon styles, though this is actually more of a novelty thing. A major overhaul of the profession is wholly unnecessary.

I stand by my contention that anyone who thinks warriors are necessarily not fun to play (as opposed to personally unappealing) doesn't know how to play them.
a VolnerHey man, you made your own bed on that one. I don't know why anyone would voluntarily subject emselves to hunting undead eir whole life.

On the location thing, everyone not in EN has the same problem. Try living in Solhaven as any profession and see how far you get.

Latrinsorm
07-06-2006, 10:26 PM
The other professions at least have the option for a soft RT.I've yet to see a mage-rogue actually killing with a spell. Not even Nodyre tried that, from what I recall.
DFReduxa) It's not DFRedux (anymore).
b) It's not padding (and never was).
can't they enscroll Ensorcell, and no.

War Drums
07-06-2006, 10:47 PM
Nobody can take a hit as well as a warrior, period.

-Who cares if you can take a hit if you don't get hit in the first place.

Further, nobody is better at escaping from a debilitating injury (between berserk and mobility as well as the aforementioned hit-taking ability).

-All moot, if you CAN'T GET HIT.

Nobody is better at using multiple weapon styles,

-Neato, now it says "You swing a sword" instead of "You swing a mace", how bout "magical destructive powers scours the room and implodes all your enemies"

A major overhaul of the profession is wholly unnecessary.

Says you, and I do respect your knowledge about warriors however, it's not the fact that warriors are inviable at hunting. A claidhmore is like the best killing "spell" out there. It's the fact that warriors become SO BLEEDING MONOTONOUS, I mean you can only ambush or kill something so many times. And there is few instances where your strategies must change (say I have to take out a leg before I go for the kill or something, some exception coming to mind are giants and even then you can just type kill kill kill and be done with it).

I mean when a rogue comes home from a hunt he has the ability to pick well, so he sits at the dais gets a few customers, chats them up a bit and voila instant roleplaying a little silvers on the side and everybody's happy. A bards got gem purification, and a sorcerer has all kinds of utility spells under him to keep himself busy. What does a warrior have? Other then scripting wtrick <insert inane trick> in front of a bunch of people so that he can get bleeding feint so he doesn't die like flies post 50th level. I MEAN WTF??!

Stunseed
07-06-2006, 10:52 PM
< I mean when a rogue comes home from a hunt he has the ability to pick well >

Meh, you've got Batter Barriers for a reason. Dalboz bashed his own boxes mid-30's on. As well as a Rogue? Prolly not, but we all can't be Rogues. Besides pure combat Rogues and Warriors, end game you need TONS of mana to spell yourself up. I absolutely love being able to get up and hunt immediately. Self-reliability is a big thing, in my opinion. The amount of casters who have to share their spells with each other compared to the Warrior who MUST have spells...It's a daunting comparison.

Jolena
07-06-2006, 10:53 PM
Can't a warrior train in lockpicking and disarming skills as well? Can't a warrior choose to learn spells also? I've not played one, so I'm genuinely asking, as I thought that they could but from this previous post by War Drums, it implies that they cannot.

Latrinsorm
07-06-2006, 11:01 PM
Who cares if you can take a hit if you don't get hit in the first place.First off, everyone (that hunts) gets hit eventually. Second, this is quintriply true for warriors. If warriors were capable of mustering the DS of a pure in stance offensive, their ability to take a hit would be less important, yes. I for one am much more happy with a profession on which I don't have to worry about spell tanking or prancing around in the shadows like a deranged lemur.

Nobody is invincible in GemStone unless you hunt roltons or kiramon.
Warriors are invincible against non-flaring weapons, and that's a pretty good start.
"magical destructive powers scours the room and implodes all your enemies"I much prefer coup de grace to boring old implosion. Pures are definitely better at taking out a room with fireworks, no question. They still take a hit like my hypothetical paraplegic little sister. You like the fireworks, I like the tankness. It doesn't mean either requires an overhaul, it just means I like the tankness and you like the fireworks.
It's the fact that warriors become SO BLEEDING MONOTONOUSA 720\r or cbone macro isn't monotonous?
I mean when a rogue comes home from a hunt he has the ability to pick wellI know quite a few rogues who get really upset at the rogue=locksmith mindset. I'd also like to point out I personally find more roleplay in the cavernously empty warrior guild than I find in the East Tower.

Meges
07-07-2006, 03:25 AM
"Further, nobody is better at escaping from a debilitating injury (between berserk and mobility as well as the aforementioned hit-taking ability)."

Beseech.


Meges

Meges
07-07-2006, 03:42 AM
Can't a warrior train in lockpicking and disarming skills as well? Can't a warrior choose to learn spells also? I've not played one, so I'm genuinely asking, as I thought that they could but from this previous post by War Drums, it implies that they cannot.

Warriors can double in lock picking and disarming. Spells cost 120 MTPs. Both are doable, especially picking and disarming. However, training in spells where you have to basically convert PTPs over to MTPs can get rather costly rather quickly.

If a warrior wants to learn up to 414 and 107, you're talking about a total of 2520 MTPs or 5040 PTPs. That's an insane amount of TPs spent on something other than physical skills that would otherwise count towards redux.

For a warrior to train in lockpicking and disarming is also a sacrifice, but I did it with one warrior. As soon as reallocation rolled around, I immediately dumped the skills and put them into physical skills. Just to give you an idea of the cost: A level 100 warrior who is doubled in both skills would spend 1818 PTPs for the first 101 ranks, and an additional 3636 PTPs for the second 101 ranks. That's a grand total of 5454 PTPs that could go towards physical skills. Personally, I don't think it's worth it, especially if you're not willing to spend an additional 960 PTPs to at least learn up to 404.


Meges

Bobmuhthol
07-07-2006, 04:04 AM
<<However, training in spells where you have to basically convert PTPs over to MTPs can get rather costly rather quickly.>>

My warrior is adequately trained, and I have more than 300 spare mental points on top of the 51 ranks in trading that I got just because I had so many mental training points. Level 43.

You really shouldn't be measuring things in only physical training points. Not everyone has to convert, and the skills that cost SO MANY PTPS!!!!! are dominantly mental skills. I'd run out of physical training points long before mental training points if I took up lockpicking.

Meges
07-07-2006, 04:12 AM
<<However, training in spells where you have to basically convert PTPs over to MTPs can get rather costly rather quickly.>>

My warrior is adequately trained, and I have more than 300 spare mental points on top of the 51 ranks in trading that I got just because I had so many mental training points. Level 43.

You really shouldn't be measuring things in only physical training points. Not everyone has to convert, and the skills that cost SO MANY PTPS!!!!! are dominantly mental skills. I'd run out of physical training points long before mental training points if I took up lockpicking.


Heh, yeah. I converted them across the board for the sake of simplicity and to show large and impressive numbers.


Meges

Drew
07-07-2006, 04:49 AM
If a warrior wants to learn up to 414 and 107, you're talking about a total of 2520 MTPs or 5040 PTPs. That's an insane amount of TPs spent on something other than physical skills that would otherwise count towards redux.



Heh, I know a warrior who knows 117 and can cast it with minimum hinderance in full plate.

Lucas
07-07-2006, 07:42 AM
##What folks need to remember is warriors are a special niche profession. They aren't for everyone. And yes in my opinion they are significantly less fun to play then say a wizard or even an empath(empaths can get mighty fun, and have a ton of RP opportunities too). Warriors possess very little in combat that can actively gauge my interest relative to say a sorcerer would in combat.

##Someone mentioned "coup de grace", an excellent RP skill for sure. But is it really mechanically viable (does nearly 40 stamina points per use really make it viable?) or is it more for flare? It's more for flare. Now compare that to the near 30 spells in a sorcerer's arsenal (more if he includes indirect attack spells) that has a unique method of killing a target.

## Now here's the key. When you choose a warrior as a profession it's like picking the Suicidal Difficulty level in Doom 3. It's for the elite GSIV player, who has such a deep understanding of the game and combat mechanics and can effectively take this hard road. Not only that it's for those with enough discipline, so that a rather limited and (possibly not so fun) method of hunting and killing can be overcome. It truly is for the strong of heart. Go warriors!

Asha
07-07-2006, 08:32 AM
Disagree.
Choosing sorcerer in GS3 was like Nightmare difficulty in Aliens vs Predator.
It only GETS easier. Becouse it was a bitch for a long time.

Aaysia
07-07-2006, 08:42 AM
Hunting with Aaysia has been a breeze for me. I have no patience so if it was difficult I would have probably just deleted her or something. She pwns so hard >.<

Also, Latrinsorm makes me giggle.

Latrinsorm
07-07-2006, 11:44 AM
Beseech.Beseech is at best equal to berserk and doesn't account for CMAN Mobility. Not to mention having Beseech is going to take a good chunk out of redux, making the paladin that less able to survive whatever the monsters are doing while beseeching.
But is it really mechanically viable (does nearly 40 stamina points per use really make it viable?) or is it more for flare?I'm going to bet people don't wander around open imploding things constantly either. Sorcs do have oodles of mana, but 59 mana a creature seems a little excessive.
Now compare that to the near 30 spells in a sorcerer's arsenal (more if he includes indirect attack spells) that has a unique method of killing a target.Eh, the sorcerer really only has two ways of killing something: CS or (spell-based) maneuver. The only differences are messaging. It's not that much more diverse than the warrior's capabilities. Mana disrupt vs. disintegrate isn't that much more different than a falchion vs. a morningstar, for instance.
When you choose a warrior as a profession it's like picking the Suicidal Difficulty level in Doom 3.It's really not all that bad. It does require more thought than a "kill\r" macro (and pure hunting in general), but the tactics aren't conceptually taxing.
Also, Latrinsorm makes me giggle.:D

DeV
07-07-2006, 11:50 AM
I have no patience so if it was difficult I would have probably just deleted her or something. That explains your unnatural hate for teh sorc profession. :yes:

Gan
07-07-2006, 12:33 PM
Sorcs have many things equal to and even surpassing warriors.

Multiple attack platforms beyond universal skills training. CS spells and AS (111 firespirit).

Room/area effect spells that can neutralize temporarily to permanent that go way beyond a heavily trained mstrike warrior; 410, 435, 720. And not forgetting ball effects of 111.

This is without even going into demonology/necromancy and the use of 130/740. 130 can be negated with voln society abilities, but not 740.

Earlier it was mentioned that rogues arent viable for killing with magic. I have to disagree, I've seen a rogue kill with 415, like aged targets (CS based attack) as well as use wands (CS based) effectively.

Aaysia
07-07-2006, 12:39 PM
That explains your unnatural hate for teh sorc profession. :yes:

Oh I had that way before I rolled up my lil sorceress. In fact, my lil character had no bearing on my opinion of the sorcerer profession. I just never really had an interest in playing them. I only rolled her up to shut up a good friend of mine who was convinced that after I played a sorcerer I'd grow to love the class :D.

GuildRat
07-07-2006, 12:40 PM
<<Multiple attack platforms beyond universal skills training. CS spells and AS (111 firespirit).

Room/area effect spells that can neutralize temporarily to permanent that go way beyond a heavily trained mstrike warrior; 410, 435, 720. And not forgetting ball effects of 111.>>

Let's not forget the sorcerer 2x'ing in spell aiming can use wizard wands as well. That gives a sorc another weapon in his/her armory.

Asha
07-07-2006, 12:52 PM
But one hit to a sorcerer will likely stun / incapacitate or outright kill him/her.
Hence right back to the fact warriors are designed to survive them.

Gan
07-07-2006, 01:05 PM
I forgot to add retribution and sacrifice to the list.

Retribution specifically for stuns. Sacrifice for mana recovery.

Asha
07-07-2006, 01:16 PM
You're right. Sorcerers utterly pwne warriors.

DrZaius
07-07-2006, 01:22 PM
Apples are better than Oranges!

Asha
07-07-2006, 01:57 PM
Apples are better than Oranges!
Actually you're fucking wrong already, mate.

Sylvan Dreams
07-07-2006, 02:06 PM
"Further, nobody is better at escaping from a debilitating injury (between berserk and mobility as well as the aforementioned hit-taking ability)."

Beseech.


Meges

Berserk.

Axhinde
07-07-2006, 02:51 PM
Beseech rocks. Gets rid of everything short of bleeding.

StrayRogue
07-07-2006, 03:09 PM
Does Beseech work when you don't have any mana?

Warriorbird
07-07-2006, 03:48 PM
Warriors aren't terribly useful to other professions, certainly, but as Bob so aptly put it...why would we care? Just becauses Meges had a boring training path doesn't mean everybody does. GS hunting is so easy as to be boring in most cases. I don't get how prep cast is more exciting.

GuildRat
07-07-2006, 08:12 PM
Warriors aren't terribly useful to other professions, certainly, but as Bob so aptly put it...why would we care? Just becauses Meges had a boring training path doesn't mean everybody does. GS hunting is so easy as to be boring in most cases. I don't get how prep cast is more exciting.

Agreed, I'm working on a sorcerer, and it's killing me. I prefer my rogue anyday over hunting any of my casters....which includes a sorcerer, a wizard and a cleric.

Stanley Burrell
07-07-2006, 09:26 PM
It would be justice if the long-awaited +100 grounds were completely anti-magic with claid-wielding behemoths to help better serve SIMU's challenging hunting ground agenda.

Warriors need to bitch in the exact same way that sorcerers and empaths have been doing. WarriorStone ftw.

Lucas
07-07-2006, 09:53 PM
Warriors need to bitch in the exact same way that sorcerers and empaths have been doing. WarriorStone ftw.

I agree with this notion, GS is like any product and if your customers bitch loud and hard enough the producer will change the product. I know sorcerer's have the loudest voice due to the sheer amount of people who play sorcs. But I think if the few warriors band together and make competent posts on the official boards, we can get some warrior related additions (along with all the new spells that everyone else gets.)

Meges
07-07-2006, 10:09 PM
BERSERK:

1) gestures at you.
CS: +540 - TD: +76 + CvA: +2 + d100: +11 - -5 == +482
Warding failed!
A wispy hand of air reaches toward you and grasps you tightly. The hand squeezes hard, snatching the breath from your lungs.
You are stunned.
S>berserk
You are still stunned.

2) gestures at you.
Strands of webbing shoot forth towards you.
CS: +251 - TD: +72 + CvA: +2 + d100: +60 - +5 == +236
Warding failed!
You are firmly webbed in place.
W>berserk
W>You can't do that while webbed.

3) gestures at you.
CS: +240 - TD: +72 + CvA: +2 + d100: +62 - +5 == +227
Warding failed!
An unseen force envelopes you, restricting all movement.
>berserk
You don't seem to be able to move to do that.

4) R>berserk
...wait 13 seconds.

BESEECH:

1) gestures at you.
CS: +540 - TD: +224 + CvA: +25 + d100: +33 - -5 == +379
Warding failed!
A wispy hand of air reaches toward you and grasps you tightly. The hand squeezes hard, snatching the breath from your lungs.
You are stunned.
S>beseech
You beseech Kai for some divine assistance.
Your petition to Kai has been heard and you feel a renewed freedom as a restricting force is abolished from you.
You start to breathe easier.

2) gestures at you.
Strands of webbing shoot forth towards you.
CS: +251 - TD: +239 + CvA: +25 + d100: +73 - +5 == +105
Warding failed!
You avoid most of the webbing.
W>beseech
You beseech Kai for some divine assistance.
Your petition to Kai has been heard and you feel a renewed freedom as a restricting force is abolished from you.
The webs dissolve from around you.

3) gestures at you.
CS: +373 - TD: +239 + CvA: +25 + d100: +26 - +5 == +180
Warding failed!
An unseen force envelopes you, restricting all movement.
>besee
You beseech Kai for some divine assistance.
Your petition to Kai has been heard and you feel a renewed freedom as a restricting force is abolished from you.
The restricting force that envelops you dissolves away.

4) RT affects beseech as well, unfortunately.
SR>besee
...wait 9 seconds.

At any rate; beseech.

Berserk is another nice parlor trick for sure. Go hog wild and temporarily wreck primordial havoc upon your foes and avoid getting stunned and all that while berserking. However, it does nothing if you're already in trouble to begin with. Not to mention the fact that you face a hefty fatigue factor that reduces AS and other crucial hunting factors. Also, how often can you use berserk?

Combat Mobility is just about as lame as berserk. The only good thing about it is its reactive nature. However, just like berserk it's severely limited by all the factors demonstrated above with the exception of roundtime, which is the whole point behind it to begin with. Stand up before you get hit and/or killed type of thing:

"Description: The Combat Mobility maneuver works automatically when you are attacked. If you are not in a standing position, you will automatically attempt to stand up before your opponent can attack you. Combat Mobility will not activate if you are stunned, webbed, bound, or otherwise immobilized. However, it will activate if you are free of these hinderances, even if you are in roundtime. Once activated, you will be charged the stamina cost and you will attempt to stand up. At Rank 1, Combat Mobility has a 50% chance of activating. At Rank 2, it has a 100% chance."


Meges

AestheticDeath
07-07-2006, 10:28 PM
Who gets beseech? Paladins? Anyone else?

Artha
07-07-2006, 10:32 PM
Just pallies.

Back
07-07-2006, 10:46 PM
Always been a mutant semi fan myself.

I had TWC/PP warrior once. Redjack. Great name. Lame skills.

Latrinsorm
07-07-2006, 11:03 PM
However, it does nothing if you're already in trouble to begin with.You're incredibly ill-informed. Try actually using berserk or reading what it actually does before you post these unspeakably incorrect examples.

Snapp
07-07-2006, 11:38 PM
Berserk has gotten me out of quite a few stuns (the messaging in the example doesn't even look right?). I don't know about webs and bindings though.

Meges
07-08-2006, 12:18 AM
Heh, it's not that I'm ill-informed. I'm an idiot. I just now realized the warrior I was using is way behind on dues and no longer "active" in the guild. And when that's the case, I think the berserk verb behaves the same as if a warrior was another profession. Although, going from memory here, since I cannot seem to locate a warrior guild master in Ta'Illistim. Under what circumstance can or can't the berserk skill be used by a warrior? I last used the skill, oh, more than four years ago. I could have sworn that you could not activate the berserk skill if you had any of those effects affecting you.


Meges


Edited to add: Now that I think about it, I seem to remember seeing people like Bob use it in duels to get out of stuns.

Latrinsorm
07-08-2006, 01:24 AM
Berserk can be used while in stun, bind, or web to break all three conditions. Doing so will use up a large number of rounds, generally ending the berserk automatically. Berserk cannot be activated while in RT.

StrayRogue
07-08-2006, 02:44 AM
Beserk works without any stamina. I doubt Beseech works without any mana. Besides, paladin's need to use beseech so much more because they can't take hit thanks to shoddy DS, poor redux and the general suckiness of their profession.

StrayRogue
07-08-2006, 02:47 AM
I last used the skill, oh, more than four years ago. I could have sworn that you could not activate the berserk skill if you had any of those effects affecting you.


Meges


Edited to add: Now that I think about it, I seem to remember seeing people like Bob use it in duels to get out of stuns.

You argue about the efficiency of an ability and haven't used it in four years? Yes, you're an idiot.

And what the fuck does it matter if you've played for X years anyway? Your opinion of warriors of NOW is just as valid of any other warrior player TODAY. I don't give a shit if you went through the days of having no redux, no benefits from CM, MOC or whatever. None of that stuff matters. If anything you should be fucking greatful how far they've come, mechanics wise, from the rolling piece of shit profession they once were.

Warriorbird
07-08-2006, 04:40 AM
Pretty much. He also had a boring ass training path.

Meges
07-08-2006, 07:46 AM
You argue about the efficiency of an ability and haven't used it in four years? Yes, you're an idiot.

And what the fuck does it matter if you've played for X years anyway? Your opinion of warriors of NOW is just as valid of any other warrior player TODAY. I don't give a shit if you went through the days of having no redux, no benefits from CM, MOC or whatever. None of that stuff matters. If anything you should be fucking greatful how far they've come, mechanics wise, from the rolling piece of shit profession they once were.

I don't have much time to reply this morning, but here goes anyway. I did not bring up the number of years I've played warriors to simply bemoan the inadequecies of previous times. I brought that up and the fact that I've played three different warriors on three different training paths (although I think I failed to mention the training paths directly) for the sake of demonstrating that I've more than simply tasted that particular profession. And when I first begun playing a warrior, my first character, I had no clue about anything any way. So I didn't even know about DFRedux, if it was discussed or in development. By the time I rolled up my second warrior a few years later, that mechanic existed and I studied up on it at the time.

The sad part of your post is about how grateful I should be that they've come so far. Yes, that is generally my point in all this. It's a shame that they've come so very far over the years, but in my opinion still, compared to the other professions I find them severely lacking.


Meges

Suppa Hobbit Mage
07-08-2006, 08:03 AM
Granted, I have nice armor. But this is one reason I really like being a warrior...

With a grunt, Sproink hefts a jade-inlaid rolaren wakizashi and launches it!
Sproink throws a jade-inlaid rolaren wakizashi at you!
AS: +1162 vs DS: +248 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +54 = +975
... and hits for 64 points of damage!
Your skull cracks in several places.
Nice breeze up there now.
You are stunned for 8 rounds!
The rolaren wakizashi flips over, landing behind you.

Lucas
07-08-2006, 08:50 AM
I think what Meges and the few others want is not neccasarily combat oriented mechanics changes but changes that would make warriors a bit more fun. For example, if they ever came out with making your own armor (and frankly they should allow weighting and such too), then warriors hands down (by far) should be the best and are the only ones able to reach the top best
at armor making (as of now where a freakin' sorcerer can be just as effective in forging a flamberge as any warrior...I mean does this even make sense to you? I picture a old robed guy with coke bottle glasses banging away at a sword twice his size and it just doesn't work. Rather picture a massive ripped dwarf with a battle scar across his face working away at an weapon and yes this makes sense.) Anyhow, Simu is out to make money and restricting something as nice as forging to just a single profession will not make the other wallets happy.

StrayRogue
07-08-2006, 11:13 AM
Er, warriors get a bonus to crafting. Sorcerer's get a penalty.

Latrinsorm
07-08-2006, 12:25 PM
yes this makes senseSo always judge a book by its cover is your motto? I suppose you don't trust any engineer who can't squat more than 500 pounds?

Warriorbird
07-08-2006, 01:47 PM
Warriors did get a change that made them scads more fun. Folks call it the maneuver list. People complain and they often use the most boring maneuvers. Feint got taken into pure awesomeness then back to somewhat awesomeness...and Berserk these days is godly rather than pathetic.

Lucas
07-08-2006, 04:09 PM
I love how threads like "are warriors the most useless" have a tendency to push the 100 post mark.

War Drums
07-08-2006, 04:10 PM
Maybe cause its true?

Bobmuhthol
07-08-2006, 04:15 PM
If you're fucking stupid, yes, it's very true.

Warriorbird
07-09-2006, 03:04 AM
Bob for the win.

Danical
07-09-2006, 07:49 AM
I think the total awesomeness of warriors has been clearly demonstrated and all the arguments to the contrary have been rebuttled with relative ease.

I love my warrior, and to think I ever considered converting.

However, warriors against OTF weaponry is another matter. Hopefully the new hunting ground will alleviate this glaring oversight.

Latrin is also my personal hero on many accounts - he brings the 'good news' (ie god damn warriors are awesome).

Aphyd
07-27-2006, 10:02 AM
Warriors are viable hunting, and good roleplayers. The problem they have is that they don't really have much versatility. They're fighters, that's it. You can choose which way you want to fight, what weapons you want to use, which CMANs you want, but that's about it.

Paladins are about the same way, but still get some fun spells to give them a niche.

Rogues are vastly more versatile than warriors. They can choose to go 100% combat specced, and be much more superior hunters than warriors, or they can choose to be balanced with picking, lower cost spells, etc. This makes them much funner to play for variety.

Don't misquote me, i'm not saying Warriors suck by any means. I'm just saying that they dont' "lead the way" in any field at all. Redux doesn't make you the best hunter at all.

Heck, I picked up 1x First Aid/Survival just so i could do something different on the side.

Olanan
07-27-2006, 10:04 AM
You can't make a generic comment on warriors being good roleplayers without lookin dumb.

Warclaidhm, Michaelous.

Perigourd to the extent of being a quest whore...roleplayer maybe.

Aphyd
07-27-2006, 11:24 AM
Yeah, I saw that and didn't feel like editing it out.

But you know, in the same regards..you can't call someone you don't know dumb without looking like a total jackass.

I guess we're even then.....now back on topic.

Lucas
07-28-2006, 04:36 PM
First time I played GS, I picked warrior. For the first 5 levels I thought "warrior profession" was some kind of template class for developers to use in order to develop new professions. To my shock and dismay warriors were actually a real profession. Heh.

FinisWolf
07-28-2006, 05:52 PM
What I am hearing:

"Can I have the cheat code please, so I can beat the game?"

Those that use cheats, cheat themselves.

Finis

FinisWolf
07-28-2006, 05:59 PM
Warriors:

Finis was a warrior from 0 to 50ish ...

Converted to paladin ...

I love warriors, and I love paladins. Each hold their own appeal. I like the diversity of both professions. With warriors its all the different things you can specialize in (guild skills, cmans, weapon types, armor, redux, etc.), and with Paladins, its the addition of spells to the equation that is not there as a warrior (kinda, but not really - meaning its too damn expensive for a warrior).

Warriors have many things in my opinion that add to another players benefit like tackling, war cries, guard ... ) Comparing warriors to other professions in GS is like comparing apples and oranges.

My two cents.

Finis

ElanthianSiren
07-31-2006, 12:06 AM
My warrior guards/protects very well -- from hiding, legging things so they can't attack anyone.

I'd urge the original poster to take a break from his/her warrior. I'm fairly sure you won't go back. I played pretty much only a warrior for seven years, hating it more and more as I went. I continued playing though because I loved RPing my warrior, her family was awesome, and I was very attached to her personna. No matter how cool you think a character is though, it's not worth it unless you're going to be enjoying the game every moment you play. I think I've logged in Kiera to do ALAE things, and that's pretty much it. Otherwise, on the rare instances that I do play, I'm playing my empath because she's just more fun, and I don't have time to waste on rote bullshit, to put it bluntly.

My criticism of the profession, however, pretty much begins and ends with the way that the cman system is set up, as it's "THE" thing for warriors now. I know that I can make scripts to cut down my typing etc, but I simply don't care to, nor do I think scripting should be a requirement of enjoyably playing a game. The combat verbs should be tied directly to the grid of verbs, including the stamina cost IMO. CMAN bearhug <target> vs. bear <target>. My wrists say -- play the empath.

-M
ps. I love that I didn't make this thread.

FinisWolf
07-31-2006, 05:10 AM
Use Storm Front:

click target
click bearhug

Done.

Finis

Caede
07-31-2006, 09:19 AM
This doesn't totally answer ElanthianSiren's problem with CMAN's (since she doesn't want to write a .bear script, for example), but if you use PsiNet you can set up aliases.

alias set bear='cman bearhug \?\r'
alias set rush='cman bullrush \?\r'
alias set fnt='cman feint \?\r'
(since I can never remember i before e except after c)

bear <target>
rush <target>
fnt <target>

Really, this is just postcount++

StrayRogue
07-31-2006, 09:20 AM
Its always good to add in a stamina check after each maneuver too.

Caiylania
06-09-2010, 09:53 PM
You're right. Sorcerers utterly pwne warriors.

I just know I'm going to get flamed for bumping this thread but I about died laughing when I read this quote. Farn drew this picture years ago when our friend Levi (Sorc) destroyed Caiy in like two seconds, and at way below her level.

So I wanted to share.

P.S.: I was reading this thread in my attempt to remember crap and learn new crap. Warriors Rock.

Khariz
06-09-2010, 11:06 PM
Holy fucking 4 year bump, batman.

Asha
06-10-2010, 07:28 AM
heheh yeah that about sums up the pwne!

Now.. without reading through this whole thread and considering a lot of changes have been made since the last informative posts..
Is it worth buying a capped warrior to just fuck around and have fun with?

I'm on the very cusp of deciding to do it while I wait for work to pick up.
I seem to like the idea of having a battle insane giantman warrior with loads of cmans to rove around Scatter or temple.
Since they're pretty cheap at cap (lately anyway) because of their bad reputation I'm thinking it'll be win win.
Thoughts?

Fallen
06-10-2010, 08:59 AM
They are fun characters if you can keep them glowing with outside spells at cap. They are still the most useless profession, though, in terms of services to others.

Asha
06-10-2010, 09:58 AM
I couldn't possibly care any less about usefulness to other players.
I don't like the idea of having any spells on at all but I guess I'll have slave wiz and ranger nubs, then.

Fallen
06-10-2010, 10:00 AM
I couldn't possibly care any less about usefulness to other players.
I don't like the idea of having any spells on at all but I guess I'll have slave wiz and ranger nubs, then.

The Temple would be the best place to hunt him self-spelled. OTF has creatures phasing in casting shit like Bone Shatter, as you well know. It would be annoying, but Nelemar should be doable without spells.

Asha
06-10-2010, 10:04 AM
I was thinking Nelemar too. There's no spellburst right?
If that's the case I'll not learn any magic and get the slaves to do it in like 20 seconds via script every 4 hours. Magic ranks would hurt redux right?

TheLastShamurai
06-10-2010, 10:05 AM
I was thinking Nelemar too. There's no spellburst right?
If that's the case I'll not learn any magic and get the slaves to do it in like 20 seconds via script every 4 hours. Magic ranks would hurt redux right?

There is spellburst in Nelemar actually.

Asha
06-10-2010, 10:10 AM
Not surprised. It'd make warriors far over powered if there weren't.

Fallen
06-10-2010, 10:11 AM
I was thinking Nelemar too. There's no spellburst right?
If that's the case I'll not learn any magic and get the slaves to do it in like 20 seconds via script every 4 hours. Magic ranks would hurt redux right?

If you want to get the benefit of no magic ranks, the best place to hunt would be the Rift. You can wear the 100's and 400's because you can technically learn the spells, and (and someone correct me if I am wrong) there is no spellburst mechanic there, just spell stripping of unlearnable spells. The rift was always completely unappealing to me, though, for a variety of reasons.

Asha
06-10-2010, 10:14 AM
Sounds perfect for me. I always loved the rift hehe. (not plane 2 or 4 ahem)
You're right no burst there and can have anyone cast both minor spheres on you.
There's not really any RP I've seen of worth to base him in Teras or TI anyway but I'll go over for the occasional challenge.
Looking forward to it now tbh.

Asha
06-10-2010, 10:15 AM
Thanks btw, Fallen.

Fallen
06-10-2010, 10:17 AM
Thanks btw, Fallen.

Yes'm.

TheLastShamurai
06-10-2010, 10:52 AM
Not surprised. It'd make warriors far over powered if there weren't.

Well, you might not need spells depending on what your unspelled offensive/defensive DS is. If your offensive is 450+, no worries.


There's not really any RP I've seen of worth to base him in Teras or TI anyway but I'll go over for the occasional challenge.
Looking forward to it now tbh.

Depends on your interpretation of RP. If you're looking for storylines, then no. But there are people there, like most towns, that are more than willing to interact with you. Just not me and Gnimble! ;)


The rift was always completely unappealing to me, though, for a variety of reasons.

Yeah, I don't really dig the rift either. I am striving towards being able to hunt the Scatter on my lonesome though. But that's more a matter of novelty than any real desire to hunt there.

Caiylania
06-10-2010, 11:52 AM
I agree with most that warriors are basically a fun class to RP. But I think Caiy is pretty decent at fending for herself and I've kept more than one group member alive using guard.

I like to help lower trains by war crying, tackling, etc... while ungrouped as well. I don't really train in berserk much but since I'm close to mastering Tricks and Cries I think I'm hitting that and disarm next.

As for pondering what I will do when capped, I doubt I'll ever see 100 at this point. I've been in my 30's for 6 years :D

Asha
06-10-2010, 12:09 PM
The game really comes to life when you cap Caiy. Promise!
And TLS I would never RP with you! Your character always annoyed me :D

AnticorRifling
06-10-2010, 01:09 PM
I enjoyed playing my warrior when I had him, converted him to a paladin like a tard and regret that decision.

Khariz
06-10-2010, 01:10 PM
I enjoyed playing my warrior when I had him, converted him to a paladin like a tard and regret that decision.

I did that with Madmountan, and I hated it so much that I paid to un-convert him.

Asha
06-10-2010, 01:11 PM
And then sold him lol

AnticorRifling
06-10-2010, 01:11 PM
Yeah I ended up selling him, just really didn't want to play him after that. I think he was in his 50s....

RichardCranium
06-10-2010, 01:16 PM
Yeah I ended up selling him, just really didn't want to play him after that. I think he was in his 50s....

Yeah you played Giantphang right? Or Warclaidhm?

Asha
06-10-2010, 01:17 PM
Haashek

RichardCranium
06-10-2010, 01:19 PM
I was gonna go there but everyone knows he's Haashek's super son.

Asha
06-10-2010, 01:19 PM
Right right.

Dranock
06-10-2010, 02:26 PM
This thread made me giggle, the way madmountan is trained right now I can have the following spells in spell burst area's.

401,406,414,101,103,107,202,911,509, 601/611

Max redux

I can cman surge, warcry hit 601 AS.

Berserk is a godsend, its like AFK script hunting.. without the script. Hunted him for about a month and only died once from a nerve crit, its retarded.. even if you get knocked down, you pop up, disarmed, weapon comes back.

wtrick feint, ambush X head. Dead.

Not crittable? One focused mstrike pops them. Its retarded fun.

I don't know, I have more fun hunting Mad then I do my sorc. Just can't let go of the sorc. If I cared enough, or played enough, I would put him on a seperate account and run him with my sorc.

I MA'd a friends bard with mad singing Song of Tonis 1035... thats just retarded. Its carnage, its fun.

RichardCranium
06-10-2010, 02:29 PM
...Its carnage, its fun.

You forgot retarded.

RichardCranium
06-10-2010, 02:33 PM
* Madmountan was just vaporized!

s>
* Madmountan just bit the dust!

Caiylania
06-10-2010, 02:51 PM
What is the point of posting that? EVERYONE that hunts eats dirt. Posting someone died doesn't mean anything.

Dranock
06-10-2010, 02:51 PM
[script done]
[Roll result: 141 (open d100: 94) Bonus: 13]
You feint low, the Ithzir adept buys the ruse and twists awkwardly to block the blow that never came!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
>stance off
>ambush adept head
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You swing an enormous T'Kirem war mattock at an Ithzir adept!
AS: +538 vs DS: +416 with AvD: +39 + d100 roll: +72 = +233
... and hit for 88 points of damage!
Solid strike caves the Ithzir adept's skull in, resulting in instant death!
The Ithzir adept falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
The Ithzir adept no longer bristles with energy.
The glowing specks of energy surrounding an Ithzir adept suddenly shoot off in all directions, then quickly fade away.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves an Ithzir adept.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around an Ithzir adept.
An Ithzir adept becomes solid again.
Roundtime: 7 sec.

A war griffin swoops down from high overhead!
A war griffin tries to spear you with its beak!
You barely dodge the attack!
>.am grif
[Script am is running, Esc to cancel, Shift-Esc to pause]
>stance off
>ambush grif head
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
You swing an enormous T'Kirem war mattock at a war griffin!
AS: +538 vs DS: +323 with AvD: +41 + d100 roll: +38 = +294
... and hit for 122 points of damage!
Tremendous blow crushes skull like a ripe melon.
The war griffin crashes to the ground, motionless.
Roundtime: 7 sec.


An Ithzir seer swings a twisted crystal-tipped staff at you!
AS: +396 vs DS: +344 with AvD: +6 + d100 roll: +80 = +138
... and hits for 2 points of damage!
A feeble blow to your left arm!
The scintillating light surrounding the staff fades some.

^ Thats what it looks like for most hits 1-10 damage


538 is with signs and strength, no cman surge or warcry hollar.

Feint + Ambush head kills most things, mstrike kills the others.. If you hunt the scatter only thing you'll have a problem with is those puppet masters.

Disarm/Tackle might be needed there.

Can almost AFK berserk warcamps.

[Roll result: 146 (open d100: 116) Bonus: 20]
You feint low, the greater construct buys the ruse and twists awkwardly to block the blow that never came!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
>cman surge
You focus deep within yourself, searching for untapped sources of strength.
You feel a great deal stronger.
>
[ Surge of Strength: +0:01:30, 0:01:30 remaining. ]
[ Surge of Strength Cooldown: +0:05:00, 0:05:00 remaining. ]
>warcry hol
You throw back your head and let out a thundering holler!

Your fighting spirit is bolstered to heroic proportions!

Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>mstrike con
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
You explode into a fury of strikes and ripostes, moving with a singular purpose and will!
You swing an enormous T'Kirem war mattock at a greater construct!
The greater construct evades the attack by a hair!
You swing an enormous T'Kirem war mattock at a greater construct!
AS: +604 vs DS: +323 with AvD: +38 + d100 roll: +52 = +371
... and hit for 104 points of damage!
Knocked sideways several feet by blow to back.
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct flickers momentarily.
You swing an enormous T'Kirem war mattock at a greater construct!
AS: +604 vs DS: +323 with AvD: +38 + d100 roll: +14 = +333
... and hit for 85 points of damage!
Right kneecap smashed into pulp.
The greater construct is knocked to the ground!
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct flickers momentarily.
You swing an enormous T'Kirem war mattock at a greater construct!
AS: +604 vs DS: +212 with AvD: +38 + d100 roll: +16 = +446
... and hit for 126 points of damage!
Hard blow breaks the femur!
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct fades and goes out.

Your series of strikes and ripostes leaves you winded and out of position.
Roundtime: 11 sec.
You swing an enormous T'Kirem war mattock at a greater construct!
AS: +604 vs DS: +147 with AvD: +38 + d100 roll: +60 = +555
... and hit for 177 points of damage!
Left hip pulped, severing the leg.

You feel your T'Kirem war mattock straining back towards your foe! Taking advantage of this, you manage to effortlessly reverse your momentum and strike again!

You swing an enormous T'Kirem war mattock at a greater construct!
AS: +604 vs DS: +136 with AvD: +38 + d100 roll: +48 = +554
... and hit for 167 points of damage!
Lucky shot rips through bone and muscle sending shield arm flying.
Cracks begin to snake across the greater construct's skin as its movement completely ceases.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

Dranock
06-10-2010, 02:52 PM
* Madmountan was just vaporized!

s>
* Madmountan just bit the dust!


Thats the way it works, that random nerve crit. Wasn't watching while I was copying down some of the hunting.

RichardCranium
06-10-2010, 02:55 PM
What is the point of posting that? EVERYONE that hunts eats dirt. Posting someone died doesn't mean anything.

Because it was funny that he was just talking about how bullshit the random nerve crit was and then he bit it, probably.

Dranock
06-10-2010, 02:58 PM
Because it was funny that he was just talking about how bullshit the random nerve crit was and then he bit it, probably.

Happened while I was doing the second part of that post with the combat logs, haha :P

An Ithzir adept spreads her arms wide, then claps her hands together sharply, releasing a wave of crackling motes into the air!
You leap to the side as you try to avoid the effulgent volley!
The electrical charge is drawn to your vultite full plate!
You stumble as you try to avoid a sparkling mote, falling to ground just as it hits you with a powerful jolt!
* ... 50 points of damage!
* Powerful blast sends most of you up in smoke!

Asha
06-10-2010, 04:48 PM
Aaaand that's how a level 94 critter can fuck your game!
Freestyle wit me..
1.. 2...

WARRIORS! they are totally DOPE - 'WHAT!'
They're usually defeated cos they're owned by a JOKE - 'WHAT!'

SWITCHIN' stance from OFF-TO-DEF - 'WHAT!'
IS fuckin' HARD!! Oh look I need another REZ - 'HUH!'

THANK GOD SIMU has been fucking listenin' - 'WHAT!'
I'm gonna change my ass over to fuckin' PALADIN! - 'NOOO!'

WASTE of time!! I STILL fucking SUCK! - 'WHAT!'
$$$ STRAIGHT on the phone to Simu ''CHANGE THAT SHIT BACK UP! - 'HA!' $$$

SO! now i'm back HUNTIN' and shit's encumbering ME! - 'WHAT!'
900 DS means NUTHIN cos of ELEC-TRICITY! - 'PAIN!'

FUCK all this!! I'mma SELL this shit off - 'WORD'
ANND USE every cent to buy me an Empuff!! - 'HO'

--- Break it down---

Because Empaths are the new sorcerers. FLIP IT!

RichardCranium
06-10-2010, 05:21 PM
Aaaand that's how a level 94 critter can fuck your game!
Freestyle wit me..
1.. 2...

WARRIORS! they are totally DOPE - 'WHAT!'
They're usually defeated cos they're owned by a JOKE - 'WHAT!'

SWITCHIN' stance from OFF-TO-DEF - 'WHAT!'
IS fuckin' HARD!! Oh look I need another REZ - 'HUH!'

THANK GOD SIMU has been fucking listenin' - 'WHAT!'
I'm gonna change my ass over to fuckin' PALADIN! - 'NOOO!'

WASTE of time!! I STILL fucking SUCK! - 'WHAT!'
$$$ STRAIGHT on the phone to Simu ''CHANGE THAT SHIT BACK UP! - 'HA!' $$$

SO! now i'm back HUNTIN' and shit's encumbering ME! - 'WHAT!'
900 DS means NUTHIN cos of ELEC-TRICITY! - 'PAIN!'

FUCK all this!! I'mma SELL this shit off - 'WORD'
ANND USE every cent to buy me an Empuff!! - 'HO'

--- Break it down---

Because Empaths are the new sorcerers. FLIP IT!

C'mon (2x)

Caiylania
06-10-2010, 05:28 PM
Everyone at work is really wondering about me right now. Snort laugh for the win.


Aaaand that's how a level 94 critter can fuck your game!
Freestyle wit me..
1.. 2...

WARRIORS! they are totally DOPE - 'WHAT!'
They're usually defeated cos they're owned by a JOKE - 'WHAT!'

SWITCHIN' stance from OFF-TO-DEF - 'WHAT!'
IS fuckin' HARD!! Oh look I need another REZ - 'HUH!'

THANK GOD SIMU has been fucking listenin' - 'WHAT!'
I'm gonna change my ass over to fuckin' PALADIN! - 'NOOO!'

WASTE of time!! I STILL fucking SUCK! - 'WHAT!'
$$$ STRAIGHT on the phone to Simu ''CHANGE THAT SHIT BACK UP! - 'HA!' $$$

SO! now i'm back HUNTIN' and shit's encumbering ME! - 'WHAT!'
900 DS means NUTHIN cos of ELEC-TRICITY! - 'PAIN!'

FUCK all this!! I'mma SELL this shit off - 'WORD'
ANND USE every cent to buy me an Empuff!! - 'HO'

--- Break it down---

Because Empaths are the new sorcerers. FLIP IT!

Latrinsorm
06-10-2010, 05:36 PM
The only skills that have a negative impact on redux are spell training ranks. Arcane symbols, mana control, etc. are fine. What does TLS mean?
Max reduxDo you actually have all redux skills maxed? I would love to see extended clips of you taking hits if so, I don't think anyone has seen data from that skillset yet.

Asha
06-10-2010, 05:47 PM
Everyone at work is really wondering about me right now. Snort laugh for the win.

I was just leaving work doing the same. I love Warriors I think!

Caiylania
06-10-2010, 06:19 PM
I was just leaving work doing the same. I love Warriors I think!

That post made bumping the thread so worth it. Sharing art & music. Go us :D

Khariz
06-10-2010, 06:32 PM
The only skills that have a negative impact on redux are spell training ranks. Arcane symbols, mana control, etc. are fine. What does TLS mean?Do you actually have all redux skills maxed? I would love to see extended clips of you taking hits if so, I don't think anyone has seen data from that skillset yet.

He does not. He's talking 3x PF and 3x Dodge with one weapon style maxed. Even though not even close to max, its still pretty damn good.

When I had 10x armor and 10x Db with the spell list he mentioned, I pretty much couldn't be touched (by critters).

Asha
06-10-2010, 06:45 PM
That post made bumping the thread so worth it. Sharing art & music. Go us :D

LMAO! We rock with our skills of bumpage and Art? lolol x

Dranock
06-11-2010, 09:26 AM
He does not. He's talking 3x PF and 3x Dodge with one weapon style maxed. Even though not even close to max, its still pretty damn good.

When I had 10x armor and 10x Db with the spell list he mentioned, I pretty much couldn't be touched (by critters).

He's the expert!

I need to write a disclaimer and say something like "To my knowledge".

I'll get some logs later today for you for fun of being beat up.

Khariz
06-11-2010, 09:27 AM
He's the expert!

I thought I hit the diminishing returns point.. and then some.

BTW, I'm playing Madmountan in shattered. Not that it matters. It's a way to be me without being me in Prime, heh.

Dranock
06-11-2010, 09:47 AM
BTW, I'm playing Madmountan in shattered. Not that it matters. It's a way to be me without being me in Prime, heh.

Buy him back! Haha, dropped the price.. just want him sold. Losing money now :P

Khariz
06-11-2010, 09:51 AM
Buy him back! Haha, dropped the price.. just want him sold. Losing money now :P

See...I lost a lot of love when I sold all the uber gear. I told the people that I sold the 10xDB, weapons, and armor to that it was going to happen like that, and it did.

It was a good, nearly 15 year run, but if I cannot go back to what I had before I sold out, I really don't want to, and the amount of time and money it would take to get back there...isn't appropriate in my life any more.

Scripting shattered, on the other hand, is just up my alley, haha.

Dranock
06-11-2010, 09:52 AM
I started in shattered, haven't really touched it since the first couple days. Don't have the time or desire to start over right now.. already did the work in prime you know :P

It should be more up my alley, just haven't let go of prime completely yet!

Khariz
06-11-2010, 09:53 AM
I started in shattered, haven't really touched it since the first couple days. Don't have the time or desire to start over right now.. already did the work in prime you know :P

But that's precisely the point. I'm not doing any work. I check a script 4-5 times a day to make sure it's still running, and I level like a madman.