Claidhmores or bust.

[Boris]

Ok, after doing out the numbers I have come to the conclusion that there is no point but using a claidhmore. For example.

Compare a Claidhmore vs. Lance (the highest DF weapons in the game)

Lets compare to the heavier armors (unfavorable for claidhmores)

Claidh vs. Chain(AsG 14 to get rank 9 crit.

*ER=Min End Roll Needed

(((ER-100+34{AvD}).35)+40{for phantom dam})/9=9

ER=183

Lance vs. Chain to get rank 9 crit.

(((ER-100+20{for common magic bonus}+49{AvD})).475)/9=9

ER=201

Claidh vs. Plate (AsG 20)
(((ER-100+19{AvD}).225)+40{for phantom dam})/11=9

ER=343

Lance vs. Plate(AsG 20)

(((ER-100+32{AvD}+20{common magic metal}).350))/11=9

ER=330

Conclusion: Only at the top end AsG>17 will the Lance pay dividends. *remember* the Lance is slower by 1 RT (RT 9) then the claidhmore. If you compare any other weapon it will by FAR be inferior to that of the claidhmore.The Lance is the closest thing, and thats at only the last armor category, try it on scale and below and the difference is HUGE. So the question arises, why would anyone use anything but a claid?

[Stunseed]

< So the question arises, why would anyone use anything but a claid? >

Mechanically, you're ( for the most part, people could argue all night about this ) correct. However, some folks use a certain weapon for RP purposes, not because its DF is higher against two armor classes.

[StrayRogue]

Stun posted one reason: it's crap against plate.

The second reason, the and the reason I don't use them is there shitty ET. They don't give any AS bonus and no DS bonus. An enchanted two-handed greatsword does. So my +50 sword will be making up most of the damage you get through crit weighting simply by getting a better endroll, plus I have a better chance to hit in the first place, and failing that, have a much better DS to survive the inevitable return blow.

[StrayRogue]

And, who cares about getting a rank 9 critical all the time anyway?

[Bobmuhthol]

<<So the question arises, why would anyone use anything but a claid?>>

As a twohanded claidh-wielding warrior, I can say that I envy anyone that can use a shield and not get injured all the fucking time. I have to hunt roa'ters in 30% stance and use surge/symbols/small statue, and I'm level 43.

[StrayRogue]

Thats due to lack of DS. From the lack of enchant.

[Olanan]

For some reason I always thought Bob was 25.

Maybe because he posts clips of killing warfarers.

[Boris]

All the calcs included a basic +20 weapon. I did comparable calcs with +50 weapons (20 mil weapon which case I can buy a +12 claidh for). **ET does not make up for the massive difference in crit rank** The reason is how the ET figures into the endroll (you must multiply ET by DF which cuts in 1/2 to 1/4).

Plus I'm doing the most unfavorable comparison for claidh possible. If I did for the most favorable, the difference between claidh and any other weapon becomes margins of 100's.(seriously) On average if I used a +50 weapon, any weapon the margin is still around 26.19 difference and this is vs. an off the shelf 5k claidh.

And in terms of critting, 80% of my kills are crit kills. Rarely, do I kill through blood loss (which have greater % chance for critter turtling or for other fresh critters to walk into the room).

Again, someone give me a weapon that can match even by far the deadliness of the claidh (and back up with formulae).

[StrayRogue]

+12 claids are very rare. Mithril is as good as you'll get, whereas 7x+ weapons are common.

But then you didn't even touch on the DS issue, like me and Bob spoke of.

[Latrinsorm]

The flaw in your logic is that a 201 endroll is really easy to get for a square class. The only time a claidhmore's weighting helps is if you're just barely hitting to begin with, and no square who knows what ey's doing is going to be barely hitting anything. A good ambusher would be better off with a dagger than a claidhmore, as it's ridiculously easy to aim right for the eye (=death). If you just want to spam "kill" all the time, a claidhmore's a good bet, sure.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<For some reason I always thought Bob was 25.

Maybe because he posts clips of killing warfarers.>>

Bobmuhthol is 30.

My second warrior is 43.

[Androidpk]

I remember when one of my first warriors bought a mithril claid for 400k silvers and I was thinking how expensive it was :)

[Drew]

I have an ithloss claid that I never use. Claids are slow and do way too much slash damage.

Claids have lower DS.

Regular claids can't be used on a number of creatures.

They aren't good for ambushing.

Unless you are a warrior or paladin they really make your AS suck.

[Stanley Burrell]

They aren't good for ambushing.

Somebody... Anybody... With the points available seriously needs to equip their upper level hiding and ambush Halfling with about four or five level 1 enhancive items, split evenly between DEX and AGI bonuses... So that the quoted above will not only be viable, but simultaneously become the icon of all that is awesome and powerful.

[Drew]

Only if you love ambushing legs first. Me, I go straight for the head.