It starts..

[The Cat In The Hat]

Charna, I hear has left the lands due to Simu bending everyone over and shoving GS4 up our asses like a big... ::cough:: well...

:(

Sorry to hear this and if you're reading, I hope you come back someday.

Cat

[DCSL]

What, really?! Wow, I never thought she'd do something that drastic. Damn. Elanthia will be a poorer place without her, if it's true. Whatever else people might say about her, she was truly a dramatic agent in the lands, encouraging roleplay everywhere she went.

[StrayRogue]

I think she'll stay. Her primary reasons was because Dark Elves would no longer be able to talk or understand elven (which was rectified), and the fact she is not automattically a citizen of Solhaven when GS4 comes about (understandable).

[DCSL]

Eh.. I have mixed feelings about the citizenship thing too. Can't blame 'er for that one.

[Parkbandit]

I think it's premature to leave a game with changes pending prior to the changes actually taking place.

[Xcalibur]

for many, it's not change

it's taking a good game out and puting a bad one in

[Artha]

Figured I'd just say: They're having alpha testers test on critters, at the critters level. This could (and probably does) mean that they're going to be adjusting critters atleast once more.

[HarmNone]

I would think that those who are enjoying the game would hang around until the changes are complete and there has been enough time for de-bugging.

Change is always difficult for most people. Therefore, when sweeping changes are made, as is being done with the conversion from GemStoneIII to GemStoneIV, it is natural for players to get nervous and antsy. Yet, if you are having fun now, there is no reason...yet...to assume you will not be able to have that same fun once the changes are complete.

Things are going to be different, and there will be a learning curve for everyone. For some who have been playing for a long while, that will do the Lambada all over their sense of familiarity, which is not always enjoyable. Others will appreciate the challenge and the sense of "newness".

Hopefully, things will shake out with little loss to that which makes Elanthia home to so many. :)

HarmNone feels for those who are upset by this

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

All kidding aside Park, I just tried to hunt again, and Tayvin is not viable at a like age, and I've got him trained with no ancilary skills.

I've test 5 of my characters (all converted to wizard 64, cleric 47, ranger 33, empath 31, and warrior 27), and of them all, my warrior is the most viable, and I suspect that is because he's 27.

1 of 5 that is semi-fun.

Doesn't take a genius to figure out how long I'll be around if GS4 goes live like it is. Your claim that it is changing, I believe to be false hopes.

My primary and favorite character is getting ass raped. I've tried being upbeat and at least give them the benefit of the doubt, but its a week away, and I'm in GS4 right now getting owned by fire golems and elementals WITH phoens, bravery, both blues, powerful look and dims running (which I can hunt in gs3 without any outside help or spells).

The game won't be much fun, and thats what I'm all about, not learning the mathematical formula for enchant, dodging, CS, AS all over again.

Your primary is a rogue, and far as I an tell, my rogue (granted only 23 in gs4) is just as effective as in GS3.

Tell me again why I should continue to pay to not play (because I'll be picking boxes if things continue as they are).

[Askip]

<< Change is always difficult >>

Especially when you are not thrilled with many of the changes, which I'm not. It's not always the change, but its' design or direction. I believe I'd be excited if they were making a greatly improved game, but I'm finding it difficult not to yawn.

Simu seems to have the attitude "we are providing you a great world, go roleplay and have fun", but that only goes so far.

There have been dozens if not hundreds of suggestions for GS4 that make sense and have merit, but Simu does not appear to have the time or inclination to incorporate them. That's because the upgrade is being RUSHED.

Is the game in financial trouble? Perhaps Simu was starting to panic and felt it had to release something?

I appreciate the work that went into the new game, even small things like "get 2nd scroll" working. However, there are major things still to be addressed even in Phase 1, such as use for elemental lores (which for now I will not even bother to train in).

I agreed to accept the game "as-is" and I still do, I just wish it had not been hurried.

[Ilvane]

I would say that most people who leave over the changes are unhappy about something else with the game, and not just the changes.

I really wish Charna wasn't leaving either, but it's her choice. Maybe after all the changes are done, and it's not that bad she will return.

-A

[StrayRogue]

Its a warriors/rogues game now. Its a bit odd that at lvl 27 I can actually kill in one hit a lvl 52 mage whom is fully spelled up.

All hail GS4: The Nerf.

[HarmNone]

Although I no longer play, and have not played for some years now, I definitely hear what you are saying, Askip. I think a good deal of the problem here lies in the enormous scope of the changes being made, along with (as you point out) the rush to get the changed game on-line. To me, it sounds as though this is practically a new game. To try to rush it is folly, in my opinion.

Personally, were I playing now, I would have much preferred to see Simu fix the glaring problems in GemStoneIII and finish that which has been unfinished for so many years, than to try to create something as different as GemStoneIV sounds to be. Of course, I am not there and am speaking only from what I have read, so my opinion counts for little. :)

HarmNone really knows little of this

[Betheny]

I wonder what city will take Maimara as a citizen.

She's committed major atrocities in every city.

[peam]

What exactly is starting here?

People leaving the game because they're irrationally upset about changes which haven't even been laid concrete yet?

[Halfsilver]

Charna has contributed quite alot to the game (linden tree/banaltra incident comes to mind) and GS would suffer a bad loss if she decided to leave.

Seems alot of decent people are packing up and calling it quits lately.

GS4 sucks.

-grays/d

[Betheny]

When the original GS4 idea came out, Kaishaku called upa nd cancelled all of his accounts. THAT DAY.

This isn't a new t hing. She'll be back. They always are.

[Ilvane]

I agree with you Harmnone. I just didn't understand why the changes couldn't be done in the existant game, like finishing all the spells lists and skills, and things like that.

What I think Simu is trying to accomplish is a brand new game to bring back some of the magic, because the old game is stagnant. This new game is going to make things easier to do stuff in the background too, as far as systems go, I can imagine. I'm upset that I'm going to go from hunting up in wolverines and other things in Mule to Cold guardians when I walk in there. I am also not leaving yet, because you never know when things are going to get tweaked and fixed. You also never know if it's going to get better. If it isn't better, then I can see a reasoning to leave.

-A

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Maimara
When the original GS4 idea came out, Kaishaku called upa nd cancelled all of his accounts. THAT DAY.

This isn't a new t hing. She'll be back. They always are.

Heh. Not always, they are not. :D

HarmNone is not back

[Betheny]

Kaishaku came back.

Tayvin came back.

I'd name more, but my caring grows less and less as the clock ticks down to my doom.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Ilvane
What I think Simu is trying to accomplish is a brand new game to bring back some of the magic, because the old game is stagnant. This new game is going to make things easier to do stuff in the background too, as far as systems go, I can imagine.-A

If this was the plan, it might have been better to release the game separately, under a different name and see how it went. However, if they had done that, they would not have had a "captive" player-base as they do in GemStoneIII.

I am still of the opinion that had they fixed the errors and omissions in GemStoneIII it would not have been so traumatic for the players. The fixes, new spells and skills, and a few cosmetic additions would have worked just as well to bring life back to the game.

As for the ease of doing things "in the background", I can see how that would be important. I just feel it could have been accomplished without quite so massive a change all at once. :)

HarmNone is not a programmer, however

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I came back because it was obviously a bit pre-emptive on my part to leave so soon. Now just a week away from going live, I wonder if I should have just stayed away.

I'm obviously addicted to the game, or why would I give a shit right? But when it becomes not fun, and it rapidly is getting to that, I'm leaving.

I just haven't decided if I want to sell all my things for cash, or just give them to folks I like.

[Halfsilver]

I think if you are still getting enjoyment out of GS3, that it would be hasty to leave or even contemplate leaving before at LEAST a few weeks after going live.

There will no doubtedly be problems in the first several weeks that will be adressed early on. Also, some of the GOOD new stuff won't be released for a while...ie Combat Maneuvers, New races/professions...etc.

Plans at this point are so sketchy, that you can't know what to expect. It might turn out to be 100x better than GS3.

-Grays/d (hopeful)

[Kurili]

Some time ago, I reallocated my 30-train Cleric. As always,(for my Clerics) she was fully trained in weapons. She came out of the test mangler and was unable to kill a rolton with her blade. I am hoping that was a bug. It was in the wee hours, and no one was around.

My young Sorceress came out alright, and my Warrior was much stronger than before. Warriorstone seems to be a good working name, so far.

Acolyte Kurili

[Artha]

Pures shouldn't be swinging. I bet you could absolutely destroy that rolton with 302.

[CrystalTears]

I have my issues with GS4, but I'm going to at least give it a few weeks before I decide if its not for me or not. Testing is fine and dandy, but until you can hunt in groups and socialize with other people and so forth, you won't know if the changes will be worth it or not.

As for Charna, I'm always sad to see people go, but I'm not going to beg her to stay either. If she wants to go, go. I'm not fond of people who claim to leave to get people to beg them to stay. She has her warn issues too so she's not on my top list of people to ask to stick it out.

So what's that people are saying about the towns? Citizenship you mean? I'm not sure what that's about. Does it say somewhere how that works?

[HarmNone]

Yeah, what is with this citizenship stuff? That must have come up after I left, as I never heard of being a "citizen" of anywhere. :(

HarmNone wonders

[Tsa`ah]

I don't see how established characters leaving the game is going to hurt Simu one iota.

Names have come and gone and come back again and the game has marched on.

Character exploits are only tales to be told at a later date. I don't see this as a contribution. Some characters can do no wrong, even when they do wrong, in most players’ eyes. The rest of us just shrug and wonder what the hell the rest are thinking.

She got upset and left, big whoop. She just joins in a long line of others. Me, I'm holding my cards until I see the last face up card the dealer throws out. I'll decide from there.

[DCSL]

I really hate some of the changes, am neutral about others, and love some. I love the new defining elven documents. Level conversion doesn't hit me that hard 'cause I'm one of those people who can't seem to get a character past level thirty. I like the new gnomes and, as a minority, I like the Aelotoi.. or, at least they don't irritate me. I absolutely cannot wait for a player-owned shop.

I hate some aspects of the citizenship thing, and I really really hate how ineffective ambush is compared with how it used to be. Granted, it was overpowered, but damn. And my bard, my main character, is completely ineffective against things her level, unless she has a full wizard spell up. If we didn't have the HEALME verb in the test instance, she'd be dying all over the place.

But I refuse to quit the game! *shakes a fist!* At least... not until Kuaike gets a damn Animal Companion.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Citizenship is basically when you use shops and interact with the NPC's in a town so much that you become a citizen. YOU dont decide where you're a citizen of, the game does because it keeps track of what towns services and the like you use most.

Cat

[CrystalTears]

What's wrong with that? Are people upset because they'll just have to wait and visit the shops and so forth to gain that citizenship and wasn't just given to them? Because they have to earn it once it goes live? Am I missing something?

And I would say you do decide where you're a citizen of. If you want to be a citizen somewhere, you participate, interact and shop there. Wanting to be a citizen of Solhaven and then spending most of your time in the landing doesn't make you a citizen of Solhaven just because you socialize there. That doesn't make sense.

[Edited on 10/26/2003 by CrystalTears]

[Artha]

Am I missing something?

Nope.

[DCSL]

Actually I'm not happy with the citizenship thing because I really don't want any city to claim at least two of my characters. Lysistrata still pictures 'home' as in Ta'Nalfein even though she owns a temporary (in her mind) house in Landing. And Kuaike's really just too wild for any town.

And I'm sure that some people are irritated because dark elves won't be able to be citizens of the elven cities, I think.

[Xcalibur]

Originally posted by Artha
Pures shouldn't be swinging. I bet you could absolutely destroy that rolton with 302.

No?

It's true Gandalf, the ARCHETYPE of wizardry doesn't swing..

No he doesn't

He doesn't fight and kill the strongest fiend of middle earth with his SWORD

No

Gs4 SHOULD allow diversity

On the contrary, they allow less and less changement to players

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
I don't see how established characters leaving the game is going to hurt Simu one iota.

When I leave, I take two premium and one standard account with me. Thats ~100 bucks a month. That will hurt them. A new account doesn't go and sign up 3 different accounts when they are new, hell, I didn't for the first two or three years.

[Xcalibur]

They don't care about your 2 premium account and your basic

Otherwise they wouldn't do that

There's something beside those changes

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
They don't care about your 2 premium account and your basic

Perhaps not, but when I know for a fact three of my friends with similar accounts and longevity will leave, and I'm sure they have friends similarly, someone will wake up.

Can't run a company that doesn't give a shit about customers for long.

[Xcalibur]

We want gs3 with some of gs4's stuff or we quit!

someone start the petition

[Artha]

I don't see how the game would be hurt of some barely known scripter quit.

[Xcalibur]

heheheehhehhehe poor you seriously

i have only one character, and it's a scripter, yeah right:rolleyes:

and scripting or not, an account is an account

[Edited on 26-10-03 by Xcalibur]

[Artha]

Face it, your account(s) doesn't matter. Not only does simu have GS, they have DR, H&X, Cyberstrike, and MO.

Even your $100, Tayvin, doesn't matter.

In fact, they could probably cut GS and still end up with profits.

[Edited on 10-26-2003 by Artha]

[Xcalibur]

So let's put gs4 and piss of 40% of customers

why?

make no sense

[The Cat In The Hat]

Originally posted by Artha
Face it, your account(s) doesn't matter. Not only does simu have GS, they have DR, H&X, Cyberstrike, and MO.

Even your $100, Tayvin, doesn't matter.

In fact, they could probably cut GS and still end up with profits.

[Edited on 10-26-2003 by Artha]


In the big picture, yes they do matter..

Refering everyone to http://www.virilneus.com/petition.php

petition statistics

Simutronics makes $25701.05 per month off the people who signed this petition.


Simutronics makes $15488.95 per month off the people who signed this petition and plan to quit. (only those who marked Yes)


A total of 593 people have signed the petition.

[Tendarian]

That petition has been around since the experience changes though. My name is probably on it and i might have quit if the first changes were put in but thats not happening now. Therefore i wouldnt quit and wouldnt even sign that petition now even.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Oh... And Sluggy has left and taken his 2 accounts with him (Cynric the cleric) Sluggy attended every pay event with both characters, was an officer of twilight hall, and only recently got married.. Gonna miss him lots. Thanks GS4!

Cat

[The Cat In The Hat]

Originally posted by Tendarian
That petition has been around since the experience changes though. My name is probably on it and i might have quit if the first changes were put in but thats not happening now. Therefore i wouldnt quit and wouldnt even sign that petition now even.

My names on there and yes, I just might go. After playing since it was introduced on prodigy, Im pretty set in my ways.. I want to be bought dinner before im assrammed but hey thats just me.

I was useing that as an example of the potential income loss to Simu. If they lost GS yes that would be a big major blow since it's their biggest game.

Cat

[ThisOtherKingdom]

My character will be a much more proficient hunter in GS4, even with keeping my 3x picking and disarming. I, for one, can't wait!

[Revalos]

RE: Charna

She will be missed, but I disagree with her reasoning for leaving. I hope she comes back.

RE: Citizenship

At first, I also thought the way it was being implemented sucked, but when some GM said it would take approximately 4 hours, if done right, to become a citizen, I figured that wasn't so bad. I was worried it would be like AC affinity which has taken me nearly three months to accomplish.

RE: Quitters

SIMU is hurt by the folks that leave, however, they are correct that if they can make GS4 a good game, they'll get 75% of those who left back.


My opinion is that folks in GS fear change. They set up their scripts and go about their lives in a certain way and anything that causes changes to that makes them unhappy. IMHO, these folks are missing the point of these changes.

SIMU knows that if GS3 is left as it is, it will stagnate because new and interesting things are too hard to implement. GS4 will allow for forward mobility, and probably a lot of changes to come whenever they are needed, which again, might make people unhappy...but I'm still at a loss to explain what this fear of change is all about.

[Ilvane]

I'm not worrying about it until after all the changes are done, and if I hate them at that point, I will leave. As of right now, I'm at the nervous-excitement level. I'm really nervous about change, but excited that we are going to have more things to do in GS4, and there will be a more rich game, as far as interaction and roleplay.

I am not a big fan of point and click, or bringing in more people who can't form sentences coming into GS. It's a roleplay game, so I hope it stays focused that way.

-A

[Back]

The only thing that bothers me about GSIV is that they can work out all the bugs in time to go live. With a game of this magnitude, I do not expect that to happen.

[Artha]

I think they'll get whatever major and somewhat major bugs they can. They've already demonstrated they don't mind setting the release date back.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Originally posted by Revalos
My opinion is that folks in GS fear change. They set up their scripts and go about their lives in a certain way and anything that causes changes to that makes them unhappy. IMHO, these folks are missing the point of these changes.

SIMU knows that if GS3 is left as it is, it will stagnate because new and interesting things are too hard to implement. GS4 will allow for forward mobility, and probably a lot of changes to come whenever they are needed, which again, might make people unhappy...but I'm still at a loss to explain what this fear of change is all about.

I dont have a fear of change, as long as it's done right. Forcing 200 changes on us all at once, is wrong and what most people are bitching about. if they did a few things at a time, no problem! Ease GS4 in over 6 months to a year, but dont ram it all up our asses at once.

Cat

[Morstanya]

Seems to me that Gs4 is gradually coming into line with something I'll find acceptable, emphasis on 'gradual'. The first round of critter adjustments blows for my characters that are getting age compressed. As Artha stated, I fully expect another round of adjustments after they test more and realize they didn't tweek the really old stuff as much as they compressed the characters.

This is a perfect example of how far they really have to go. I don't think the staff understood just how pervasive compression is on game mechanics when they set the original schedules, which indicates they are flying blind to me. Tweek, test, tweek, test... that can only go on so long before this becomes pathetic.

As Harmnone and Ilvane, I never saw the reason for a Gs4 when they could finish Gs3 and then introduce some of the nice things from Gs4 one at a time.

I signed Virilneus petition and meant it at the time. The staff did react to that and I was a lot happier when they announced the new compression method. A lot of people question the validity of that petition in regards to financial impact, but I think it's a fair approximation of just how much Simu stands to lose if they screw this up.

For those stating that Simu doesn't care, or need to care, about financial ramifications, why did they change the compression plan ? If Walmart had a stream of disgruntled customers complain and state they would take their business elsewhere, it wouldn't matter if it was a minority of the customers or not, they would respond to the problem. That' s because it's a well run business, and well run businesses do care about every customer. Does Simu run their business well ? I guess we'll find out.

Morstanya, Icewitch.