Armor Question

[DrZaius]

So here's my armor question. I'm playing an Elven Warrior, who is tripling in Armor Use to get to MBP asap. My question is; is it possible to wear heavier armor before you are fully trained for it, and not get squashed? atm, I have a 38 bonus between my dex and agility; am in Brig and swinging a 2 hander in 5 seconds. Could I wear armor 2 seconds slower, swing at 7, and be fine? Would my EBP get completely screwed over?
Thanks.

[DrZaius]

shameless bump.

[Hakonne]

Mbp has an 80 armor rank requisite. Conventional wisdom says if you've some nice bonuses, you can 'get away' with about 70. With a bonus like that, I'd playtest it at 65-66 ranks. Grab some 0x off the pawnshop table and give it a try.

Hak

[Latrinsorm]

Relying on AGI/DEX works great for RT. Everything else, you're going to do very poorly on. The usual concern is maneuvers, because failing an EBP usually isn't debilitating. Really, the benefits going from augmented chain to metal breastplate aren't that awesome, so I wouldn't bother skipping, especially if you're tripling.

[DrZaius]

Relying on AGI/DEX works great for RT. Everything else, you're going to do very poorly on. The usual concern is maneuvers, because failing an EBP usually isn't debilitating. Really, the benefits going from augmented chain to metal breastplate aren't that awesome, so I wouldn't bother skipping, especially if you're tripling.

Oh, we're talking much more drastic than that. Going from Brig to Hauberk at 11, MBP at 16.

[Apathy]

Are you going to hunt anything that has manuevers? Particularly, manuevers that can kill?

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Going from Brig to Hauberk at 11, MBP at 16.>>

?!?!?!?!?

Hauberk and MBP require the same number of ranks.

[DrZaius]

<<Going from Brig to Hauberk at 11, MBP at 16.>>

?!?!?!?!?

Hauberk and MBP require the same number of ranks.

AsG Ranks for 0 RT

"Chain Haubrek (chain) 16 170

Metal Breastplate (plate) 17 190 "

At least that's what my (possibly outdated) chart tells me. What Im also going by is the numbers on the website. So, with 132 bonus at 11, I can wear a chain shirt with no penalty and my -3 from dex/agi; giving me a 4 base RT on a 7 second weapon; moving up 2 armor groups (aug and half chain have the same RT I believe); giving me hauberk at 11 with a 6 second (and managable) RT. At 16 I get 150 bonus in armor, moving me up again in armor to aug chain (or whatever the next one is), giving me the same numbers, and a 6 second RT in MBP. I think.

[mgoddess]

Chain Hauberk and Metal Breastplate both have RT adders of 9, which means you need 80 ranks of Armor Use to cover it. Metal Breastplate, of course, has a higher hinderance for magic, but that wasn't covered here.

ETA: Does the agi/dex bonus add on the same sort of bonus that armor ranks do? Aka, does every +20 agi/dex bonus reduce 1sec of RT like armor training does?

[Bobmuhthol]

http://www.play.net/gs4/info/armory/armorchain.asp#chainhauberk

http://www.play.net/gs4/info/armory/armorplate.asp#metalbreastplate

You're very obviously NOT looking at the website, and your chart is older than GemStone IV.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<ETA: Does the agi/dex bonus add on the same sort of bonus that armor ranks do? Aka, does every +20 agi/dex bonus reduce 1sec of RT like armor training does?>>

You get -1 RT from your dex + agl bonus. The formula would be 1 + INT((Dex + Agl - 8) / 15) if dex + agl >= 8 (and if not, there would be no change in RT).

[DrZaius]

<<ETA: Does the agi/dex bonus add on the same sort of bonus that armor ranks do? Aka, does every +20 agi/dex bonus reduce 1sec of RT like armor training does?>>

You get -1 RT from your dex + agl bonus. The formula would be 1 + INT((Dex + Agl - 8) / 15) if dex + agl >= 8 (and if not, there would be no change in RT).

What is "INT" in that formula?

This is what Im operating off of.


Dex Agi Reduction Bonuses
1 second sum of 8
2 seconds sum of 23
3 seconds sum of 38
4 seconds sum of 53
5 seconds sum of 68

[Celephais]

INT means truncate to an INTeger. Round down.

[Celephais]

A better formula (less conditional) would be
Reduction = INT((DEX + AGI + 7) / 15)

Not sure if negative bonus can hurt you...

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Not sure if negative bonus can hurt you...>>

That's what I was wondering, too, and where the conditional came in. My formula would still work if it does.

<<Dex Agi Reduction Bonuses
1 second sum of 8
2 seconds sum of 23
3 seconds sum of 38
4 seconds sum of 53
5 seconds sum of 68>>

Correct.

[Celephais]

Oh I'm not saying your formula is wrong, "my" formula is the same as yours, I just adjusted the "condition" to DEX + AGI >=0 by moving that 1+ into the INT.

[Celephais]

Here's "showing my work" adjusting your formula:

1 + INT((Dex + Agl - 8) / 15)
INT(1) + INT((DEX + AGL - 8) / 15)
INT(1 + (DEX + AGL - 8) / 15)
INT(15/15 + (DEX + AGL - 8) / 15)
INT((DEX + AGL - 8 + 15) / 15)
INT((DEX + AGL + 7) / 15)

It all just boils down to bonus divided by 15 rounded up.

[mgoddess]

Dex Agi Reduction Bonuses
1 second sum of 8
2 seconds sum of 23
3 seconds sum of 38
4 seconds sum of 53
5 seconds sum of 68

This is the sum of AGI + DEX (stat or bonus?) before or after the equation that's being discussed?

[Celephais]

That is the result of the equation being discussed. And yes the sum of the BONUS.

So um... "Bonus, After"

[Celephais]

So for RT purposes only, 15 AGI/DEX bonus = 20 Armor skill. I don't know if they are rounded before or after being added together. Like could I remove one RT by having 7 AGI and 5 armor skill?

[Bobmuhthol]

<<So for RT purposes only, 15 AGI/DEX bonus = 20 Armor skill. I don't know if they are rounded before or after being added together. Like could I remove one RT by having 7 AGI and 5 armor skill?>>

It doesn't really work like that. Armor reduces RT for every 20 armor skill, and AGL/DEX *further* reduces RT for every 15 bonus (rounded normally). 1400 ranks and 140 ranks are the same for full plate RT, but DEX/AGL do not cap for how much RT they subtract. The two work independently.

[Celephais]

I should have said for armor hindrance RT purposes only.

So if I was wearing Fulls with a base 5 RT weapon and had 5 armor skill and 7 AGI bonus (0 dex bonus) I would swing at 6 seconds?

[Bobmuhthol]

<<So if I was wearing Fulls with a base 5 RT weapon and had 5 armor skill and 7 AGI bonus (0 dex bonus) I would swing at 6 seconds?>>

Uh.. I don't even remember the full requirement anymore but.. armor skill and DEX/AGL bonus definitely DO NOT combine.