New train path.

[Bombadil]

Ok I'm rolling up a new warrior, I need a new mechanically superior never been done before training path. I mean, I need something wacky but in the long run will be very powerful. Points for creativity, and points for mechanical perfection.

[Latrinsorm]

a) There's no such thing as mechanical perfection. It's hard to even establish mechanical superiority.
b) Everything's been tried. Seriously.
c) I'd say there are two basic options for wacky:
1) Mage-warrior, as follows:
2x THW, 1.5x Dodge, 2x PF, 2x CM, 1x Harness, MnE spells as you can fit. No armor, obviously, and hopefully you'll be able to get to ewave before cap.
2) THW hurler.
2x THW, 2x Armor, 3x PF, 2x CM, 1.5+x Dodge, 2x Hurl. Bond to your weapon, hurl away once you get to rank 5 bonding. (Credit Wulfhen as the original here.) This also works with Spears in Polearms.

Other possibilities are Master of Arms (train in every weapon style), Shadow-warrior (like a rogue hide/ambush, only with a warrior), or full-on Tank (3x PF, 3x Armor, 3x Shield, 2x weapon, 2x CM, .5x dodge and MoC as TPs allow). Another fun path that's a little more commonplace is Whirlwind: 2x MoC, 2x TWC, 2x Brawl or Edged, 2x PF, 2x Armor, 1.5-2x Dodge, get two flaring weapons and go to town.

[Stunseed]

XXXXXXXXX (at level 4), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 50 10
Armor Use..........................| 66 14
Combat Maneuvers...................| 50 10
Blunt Weapons......................| 50 10
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 25 5
Physical Fitness...................| 62 13
Dodging............................| 50 10
Perception.........................| 5 1
Climbing...........................| 5 1
Swimming...........................| 5 1

[Soulpieced]

Mmmm, two morning stars set to crush. Drooool.

[Stunseed]

DING DING DING, SP wins.

[Bombadil]

"Mmmm, two morning stars set to crush. Drooool."

Ummm,Why is this good?

[Stunseed]

Morning stars have the best DF out of the one-handed weapons. Plus it's damn sexy.

[DrZaius]

My Halfling Warrior was in plate by 11. I think I had him 3x'd in Armor and Shield. (and obviously a master of the 'other' society). It took a light breeze to knock him over, but you couldn't hurt 'em :)

[mgoddess]

My Halfling Warrior was in plate by 11.

No way in hell, unless he was severly encumbered by that plate. It takes 80 ranks of armor use to wear Metal Breastplate, and at 11, the most amount of armor ranks you could would be 39....

[Stretch]

High enough REF/DEX bonuses will negate a lot of the RT penalty.

[Latrinsorm]

39 ranks is 138 bonus, compared to the 180 bonus required, he'd only have 3 seconds of RT penalty. The real issue would be maneuvers, but at level 11 that's not much of a problem. Gonna be a real pain trying to do guild work though.

p.s.: It's AGI now, not REF. If anyone was confused.

[DrZaius]

I think I may have made him in GS3, but he definately had maxed agility and dex, and Im fairly sure he was swinging a fal in 5. Also, he was in vultite plate, not sure if that matters.

[mgoddess]

Heh, forgot about the AGI/DEX bonuses helping....possible then, with a halfling.

[Drew]

Max redux plan, ask latrinsorm for it.

[DrZaius]

Heh, I was just going to ask about that- seems kinda cool, same general concept of my halfling- just a complete turtle.

[Latrinsorm]

Max redux plan, ask latrinsorm for it.Ha, that was wacky, true.
3x PF
2x Armor
2x Shield
2x *some weapon*, recommended a onehanded type.
1x *every other weapon type*
1x TWC
1x Dodge
1x CM
1x Ambush

The actual max redux plan is to 1x every weapon type, then 1x MoC too, but it's only .1 more redux points per level and it's pretty hard to advance with only 1x in a weapon type. What's listed costs 59/21 which is pretty much doable from the get go and is worth 8.6 redux points per level (for comparison, my character gets 7, and he has rather good redux). I'd recommend putting spare TPs to bring CM up to 2x.

[StrayRogue]

Explain this "redux points" system to me again?

[Drew]

Explain this "redux points" system to me again?



There are three tiers of skills that help your redux. A while back Porcell figured out how much they are worth and at what level you will start getting redux (113 points I think). I don't remember the point value except PF is worth an even one point, everything else is worth less. So if you had no other redux skills you would start getting redux once you had 113 PF trains.

[Latrinsorm]

The general threshold is 109 points. Spells don't appear to affect the threshold, which is interesting, but that's tangential. There is a level penalty starting around level 20 that increases sharply the lower levels get. The threshold at 16 is like 126 points. As an(other) aside, it appears that level penalty carries over (in a way) to redux factor as well: that is to say, having 190 redux points at level 30 will provide less redux than having 190 redux points at level 52.

The redux point system is Porcell's research and PT is worth one point, yes. Secondary skills (TWC, ambush, MoC, shield, armor, dodge, CM) are worth 0.4 points. Weapon (also known as tertiary) skills are worth 0.3 points.

[StrayRogue]

Yes, but saying I have X redux points means nothing to me. Obviously more is better but I don't see it's impact on my characters in game.

[Latrinsorm]

It is true that redux is not as instantly visible as (for instance) AS. It is also true that we don't know how increasing redux points will affect redux factor. However, these are both secondary concerns with regards to the stated plan. The point of the plan is to max redux and maintain as much viability as possible (hence, 2x weapon). I make no promises as to whether redux generated by this plan will be anecdotally greater than redux generated by a less extreme plan. I am confident it will be higher than any other plan currently in existence, though. (Kenhinds on the officials had a weaponmaster build at one time, I don't remember how that went though.)

[StrayRogue]

That completely didn't answer the question.

[Tenzle]

So using the full training plan what is the earliest you can get redux?

[Latrinsorm]

Level 16, or maybe level 15 with interlevel training. Not sure.

StrayRogue: the biggest impact redux has in everyday combat is on the crit rank 0/1 threshold. All crit rank 0s do no wounds. To achieve a crit rank 1, one must produce raw damage equal to the crit divisor; therefore, the 0/1 threshold (in terms of endroll) is at CD/DF + 100. Increasing redux factor from .500 to .550 will probably keep the CD for plate at 9 in both cases and will increase the 0/1 threshold by 11.1%. If it took a 180 endroll with a greatsword (or whatever) before, it would take a 189 endroll after. If the creature only had a 20% chance of wounding before, it'd only have an 11% chance now. Increasing redux factor from .45 to .5, similarly, would increase the 0/1 threshold by 10%.