republican slaughter again

[i remember halloween]

i'm glad to see the continued trend toward conservatism the past few elections. the republicans will retain the presidency and congress this time around AND increase their seats. hopefully we'll see a huge 4 seat gain in the senate and at least 3 in the house, which is already a large majority.

kind of off subject, i'm not surprised to see how easily the gay marriage thing was beat down in so many states. are any of you?

[Keller]

Not surprising but very depressing. For people who believe in family values they sure do know how to prevent families from forming.

That All depends on ones definition of a family.

[SpunGirl]

I am. But all that says is that America just isn't ready at this time for that kind of social change. That doesn't mean people won't stop fighting for it, and in four or eight years, there might be a different sentiment about it.

I think it might have been more of a focus if 9/11, Iraq, etc hadn't happened.

-K

[DeV]

Originally posted by Dave
That All depends on ones definition of a family. Family is family and once people start understanding that and stop being hypocrits of their own "values" or lack thereof we will see some changes. For the next four years we aren't expecting much but the fight won't end in the mean time.

It is rather interesting to see how badly it was beaten down. I am glad that some people still hold traditional values in the United States. In no way do I feel the want to be held hostage by some minority of people.

- Arkans

[Carl Spackler]

amen

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Arkans
In no way do I feel the want to be held hostage by some minority of people.

- Arkans

I disagree vehemently with your stance on this issue, Arkans, but I have to agree with your sentiment about the vote. I think it's good it was put to a vote.

My prediction on the matter is that it will come up again and again until it is pushed through, however.

-K

Honestly, Spun, if it is put up to vote again AND it passes, I'll accept it. I won't like it, but I'll accept it. Such a huge change to our definition of family *SHOULD* be put up to vote to the people.

- Arkans

[SpunGirl]

Originally posted by Arkans
Honestly, Spun, if it is put up to vote again AND it passes, I'll accept it. I won't like it, but I'll accept it. Such a huge change to our definition of family *SHOULD* be put up to vote to the people.

- Arkans

I absolutely agree.

-K

[i remember halloween]

understand that the state votes were to define marriage, NOT outlaw civil unions...

[longshot]

Originally posted by i remember halloween
understand that the state votes were to define marriage, NOT outlaw civil unions...

I think in some states, not sure which ones, they went further and outlawed civil unions.

I wasn't surprised that the measures lost so bad in the south.

I was surprised by it loosing in Oregon though.

If two dudes are allowed to get married, I don't see how that affects me, or anyone else's family. That's just my opinion though.

It's pretty easy to understand the opposition to this idea. So, yeah, I'm not real surprised.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by longshot
I think in some states, not sure which ones, they went further and outlawed civil unions.



Arkansas - Amend the state constitution to define marriage as the union of one man and one woman; Arkansas would not recognize same-sex marriages or partnerships from another state; would recognize common-law marriages from other states; the Arkansas Legislature would determine rights of married couples.

Georgia - Amend the Georgia constitution to recognize that marriage is only the union of a man and a woman; no same-sex marriages from other states or jurisdictions would be recognized by the state; no divorces could be granted by a Georgia judge in the case of same-sex marriages.

Kentucky - Amend the Kentucky Constitution "to provide that only a marriage between one man and one woman shall be a marriage in Kentucky, and that a legal status identical to or similar to marriage for unmarried individuals shall not be valid or recognized?"

Michigan - Amend the state constitution to provide that "the union of one man and one woman in marriage shall be the only agreement recognized as a marriage or similar union for any purpose."

Mississippi - Amend the state constitution to recognize marriage may be valid only when between a man and a woman; provides that a marriage from another state or foreign jurisdiction between persons of the same gender is void in Mississippi.

Montana - Amend the state constitution effective immediately to define civil marriage as between a man and a woman; prohibits marriage between persons of the same sex; marriages performed in other states would be recognized in Montana only if between a man and woman.

North Dakota - "State constitution would be amended to define marriage as being a legal union of a man and a woman; provides that no other domestic union can have the same legal effect."

Ohio - Amend the Ohio Constitution to recognize marriage as a union between one man and one woman; neither the state nor counties can give legal status to unmarried individuals whose relationships are intended to approximate the design or effect of marriage.

Oklahoma - Amend the state constitution to define marriage as being between one man and one woman; only married people are eligible for the benefits for married people; same-sex marriages from other states are not valid in Oklahoma; it would be a misdemeanor to issue a marriage license in Oklahoma; by adding Section 35 to Article 2.

Oregon - Amend the Oregon Constitution to say that the state's public policy is that only a marriage between one man and one woman shall be legal. (Oregon statutes refer to out-of-state marriages as legal except where the marriage violates Oregon public policy).

Utah - Amend the Utah Constitution to recognize that marriage consists only of the legal union between a man and a woman; no other domestic union would be recognized as a marriage or given the same or substantially equal legal effect; amendment would take effect on January 1, 2005.

[xtc]

Originally posted by i remember halloween
i'm glad to see the continued trend toward conservatism the past few elections. the republicans will retain the presidency and congress this time around AND increase their seats. hopefully we'll see a huge 4 seat gain in the senate and at least 3 in the house, which is already a large majority.

kind of off subject, i'm not surprised to see how easily the gay marriage thing was beat down in so many states. are any of you?

No I am not surprised that gay marriage was voted down in so many states. NYC, San Fran and Hollywood are not representative of your average Americans values.

[Ravenstorm]

I expect the majority of the amendments will be overturned by their state supreme courts much as Louisiana's was.

Most of those states' constitutions demand that amendments address only a single issue at a time while 8 of the 11 also included bans on civil unions and any form of domestic partnership as well. Further, the ballots didn't tell voters that; they only mentioned the marriage clause.

Raven

[Numbers]

Those are all hick states.

Surprise?

[Chadj]

Hahhaha, he said hick.

Thats funny.

[xtc]

Michigan , Oregon and Ohio are not hick states

[DeV]

Ohio is questionable.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
I expect the majority of the amendments will be overturned by their state supreme courts much as Louisiana's was.

Most of those states' constitutions demand that amendments address only a single issue at a time while 8 of the 11 also included bans on civil unions and any form of domestic partnership as well. Further, the ballots didn't tell voters that; they only mentioned the marriage clause.

Raven

The amendment proposals don't belong in the voting booth.. they belong in the hands of your state's Congress. THEY are responsible for making laws. WE elect them to do it.

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by i remember halloween
kind of off subject, i'm not surprised to see how easily the gay marriage thing was beat down in so many states. are any of you?

Excellent!

Looks like all is not lost for the American populace.

[Zanagodly]

Ones definition of marriage and family are their own. I'm not surprised but certain people's "family traditions" and "values" shouldn't be forced on everyone else. Let the gays marry plz?

[DeV]

Originally posted by Atlanteax

Originally posted by i remember halloween
kind of off subject, i'm not surprised to see how easily the gay marriage thing was beat down in so many states. are any of you?

Excellent!

Looks like all is not lost for the American populace. Please, come out of the closet already. "All is not lost"? What kind of backwards thinking is this.

[Ravenstorm]

It'll happen.

1/3 of Americans approve of same-sex marriage. Another third favor civil unions. That's the greater majority of the country who agree same-sex couples should have the exact same legal benefits as straight couples.

The strongest supporters of same-sex marriage the under 30 age bracket (or 25, 28, whatever the cut off is). So another generation, perhaps two and it's a done deal.

And civil unions even sooner. Especially since a week before the election Bush publically stated he'd support them on the state level. You can be sure that last minute appeal to gays and moderates will be thrown in his face if he tries anything.

Raven

[xtc]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
It'll happen.

1/3 of Americans approve of same-sex marriage. Another third favor civil unions. That's the greater majority of the country who agree same-sex couples should have the exact same legal benefits as straight couples.

The strongest supporters of same-sex marriage the under 30 age bracket (or 25, 28, whatever the cut off is). So another generation, perhaps two and it's a done deal.

And civil unions even sooner. Especially since a week before the election Bush publically stated he'd support them on the state level. You can be sure that last minute appeal to gays and moderates will be thrown in his face if he tries anything.

Raven

Individuals beliefs change as they get older. So I wouldn't assume that every 18 year old who currently supports same sex marriage would do so when they are 35.

[Zanagodly]

Originally posted by xtc
Individuals beliefs change as they get older. So I wouldn't assume that every 18 year old who currently supports same sex marriage would do so when they are 35.

Well with an issue such as same sex marriage I think most of these young people will maintain their belief. Its a generation that has grown up with gay relationships occuring all around us and as a result we have accepted it. What reason not to, other than for a religious purpose? I can think of none.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Zanagodly

Originally posted by xtc
Individuals beliefs change as they get older. So I wouldn't assume that every 18 year old who currently supports same sex marriage would do so when they are 35.

Well with an issue such as same sex marriage I think most of these young people will maintain their belief. Its a generation that has grown up with gay relationships occuring all around us and as a result we have accepted it. What reason not to, other than for a religious purpose? I can think of none.

Some probably will retain that belief but I would venture to say that some will change. Some people do get more religious as they older. Some may change their opinions of what constitutes a marriage when they have one of their own. But maybe they will retain their belief time will tell.

[SpunGirl]

I can't think of any bit of major social change that has happened overnight. But when it comes to equal rights for a group that is in the minority, change has invariably happened.

-K

[xtc]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
I can't think of any bit of major social change that has happened overnight. But when it comes to equal rights for a group that is in the minority, change has invariably happened.

-K

Certainly in our lifetime or the past 100 years this is true. But in the history of man societies swing from uber liberal i.e. Ancient Greeks to hard right wing i.e. The middle Ages in England.

[DeV]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by SpunGirl
I can't think of any bit of major social change that has happened overnight. But when it comes to equal rights for a group that is in the minority, change has invariably happened.

-K

Certainly in our lifetime or the past 100 years this is true. But in the history of man societies swing from uber liberal i.e. Ancient Greeks to hard right wing i.e. The middle Ages in England. We should probably stick to what is happening currently in our lifetime. As history, how Spun has described it, is certainly in favor of change and progress even in this instance. It won't be overnight but any reason you think of as it relates to history can be debunked with history correcting itself eventually.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by DarkelfVold

Originally posted by Atlanteax
Excellent!

Looks like all is not lost for the American populace. Please, come out of the closet already.

Have you seen the tie in his avatar? No gay man would wear that ugly of a tie. My bet is he's straight as an arrow.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Wezas
Have you seen the tie in his avatar? No gay man would wear that ugly of a tie. My bet is he's straight as an arrow. :rofl: I didn't mean it literally Wezas... But seriously, All is not lost? As if that would be the downfall of our country.

[Tsa`ah]

No, he's just pissed that as a straight man, gay men get more chicks than he does.

Look at Laylana for instance.