best rogue race?

[vontez]

I know there is no "best" race for anything, but not RP wise, which races are best suited for each kind of roguing? I'm guessing giants or half krolvin would be best at combat, while halflings or elves would be good for picker/ambusher combos....any help? I'm rolling up a new rogue

[DrZaius]

Well, it really depends on what you want to play. I'd start off my saying I *dont* think that Giant and Half-Krovlin are best, simply because they're dex and agility have negatives; if you're playing a rogue who just attacks from the open, you might as well just play a warrior. I've always been partial to half-elves myself- better at roguing than a human, much stronger than a halfling, and none of the social stigma of the dark elf. Of course, if you said what you wanted to play specifically (Locksmith, Hide/Ambusher, Archer, etc) people on here would be more informed to answer your question.

[Artha]

Humans are the best. They have no negatives.

Half-elves and sylvans aren't bad either.

[Aaysia]

:heart: my human rogue. My half-sylvan rogue rocks too. So I'll go with those two choices.

[StrayRogue]

Giantmen make the best everything, especially now with enhansives.

[Gan]

I have a 81 human rogue and have had good experiences working with his abilities. If Ganalon werent human he'd have been a half elf.

[Kefka]

Love my human rogues. Tho I wonder about the fast swinging claidh ambushers - Elves.

[Amaron]

I love my half-sylvan!!

J

[zhelas]

It doesn't really matter which race you choose. Pick one you like and RP it. I chose a Half elf.

[DrZaius]

Dwarf.

[Czeska]

Mine is a full 3x'd picker/archer. Only thing that sucks about her is her spirit's lower than I like. Otherwise, she's great.

[Itachi]

Im going to go ahead and disagree with everyone.

Undead is clearly the best. Will of the forsaken is a great racial for pvp.

[Stretch]

Rogues are versatile enough that you can pick most any race and be good at whatever.

I chose Human at first mostly for RP reasons, but statistically they're fairly strong, no negatives and the INT/LOG bonuses aren't bad either. The elven races are somewhat quicker, and halflings are fast and the magical resistance would really come in handy at the later levels. I would tend to shy away from Half-Krolvins, Dwarves and Giants just because they're a tad slow and draw up stereotypical percetions of clumsiness, but that's just personal opinion.

I don't know anything about Aelotoi, Erithians or Gnomes though.

If you check out the Rogue fame lists, you'll see that pretty much all of the original races are well represented. At gunpoint, I'd say go with half-elven if this is your first rogue. Not weak, fast and no real negatives to speak of.

[Leetahkin]

I'm partial to my Half-Elf/Half-Sylvan rogue :heart:

[DrZaius]

Given the stats, what race gets the most bonuses towards picking?

[Augie]

I'm partial to halfling rogues. Cheapshot and sweep can be a bitch at first, but we still rock!

[Andrath]

32 half elf, as long as you dont misplace your con, take a half elf all the way

[Bobmuhthol]

Half-elf rogues, hands-down.

[Numbers]

Except for the -5 to strength, aelotoi seem like they'd make good rogues. I'm planning on rolling one up shortly.

[KrolvinScout]

I'm still fond of Half Krolvin. Whoever said they have negative DEX and AGL Penalties are wrong as well, and should really look at the Racial Charts more often as HK actually have a 5 Bonus to AGL :)

10 STR and CON Bonus <-- Great

Heavily Crit Padding against all COLD Based Attacks that stacks with armor etc <-- Super for those who like Mule and Pinefar

The only downside I see for Half Krolvin is the bad LOG Bonus... -10. This kinda forces you to place it high early on to get a 0 to even number Bonus at creation. Other than that, I don't see why so many people think Half Krolvin suck. The main thing that draws away from the race by people I think is the racist bastards who hate the monkies and the fact they are still a newer race. Most players who have decently level characters would rather stick to the current race they have then switch to a Half Krolvin.

I for one, love'em..While they may not be the best at things like locksmithing because of the little bonuses, overall I think they are likely one of the best Races for a Rogue if you like to RP that sorta thing. I wish the Krolgeh language was easier to learn, and more documentation was out for'em, but I'll likely never trade another race in for a Rogue.

[Stanley Burrell]

I :heart: my Dwarven rogue with my soul.

No one expects a vile and ale-stuffed midget with a hanging beer gut and fleas to be a master of the shadows.

[Renian]

While as fond as I am of giant rogues (considering I play one), I would no longer consider them the best rogue race due to the ambushing changes. I'd say a dwarf is actually the best race.

Think about it. They can hit anything with ambush (I think) through either a direct smash to the face or by ripping off a leg before hand. They have good TD bonuses (something squares really need) and the fastest spirit regen in the game which is excellent for CoL. Their bonuses to strength and constitution help in combat as well.

My other choices would be humans or an elf variant.

[StrayRogue]

Dwarves do not have the fastest spirit regen in the game.

[Snapp]

They also can't ambush everything. There's a lot that my dwarf can't reach (head/neck) on some critters that other races can. I do agree they make great rogues though.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<There's a lot that my dwarf can't reach (head/neck) on some critters that other races can.>>

Knock them down. There's more than one way to do that as a rogue. It's a fuck of a lot better than being a giantman and not being able to ambush ANYTHING.

[Snapp]

Knock them down. There's more than one way to do that as a rogue. It's a fuck of a lot better than being a giantman and not being able to ambush ANYTHING.
Oh I agree, I wasn't complaining. It's simple to leg or sweep critters first.

[Renian]

They also can't ambush everything.

They can hit anything with ambush (I think) through either a direct smash to the face or by ripping off a leg before hand.
So, they can.
And yes, dwarves DO have the fastest spirit regen in the game. It's 4:3 on node, 2:3 off node (spirit points:minutes). They tie with with halflings though. I don't know of any race that's faster.

[StrayRogue]

So they don't have THE fastest. Personally, I don't like wasting the 8 seconds to knock down a critter. Plus as a dwarf I'd never, ever, be able to ambush with a claidh in 5 seconds, something I have no problem with as a DE, nor would I ever be able to compete with some rogues for the highest lock picked/trap disarmed.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<be able to ambush with a claidh in 5 seconds>>

I thought ambush absolutely had to add a second to base RT?

[StrayRogue]

Sorry, make that 6 seconds.

[Celephais]

How important is spirit regen later though? I might be looking at an older QRS, (it lists dwarfs as 4:5 noded, 2:5 off node). (And yes, they do have THE fastest... THE fastest is a set value, and they have it... as do others, symantecs) Either way, the regen rate (Delf/elf) has 2:5 noded 1:5 off node... even off node a rogue could maintain Swords, Shields and Dissipation at 100 without worrying (at 100 they last 16:40-17:25). If you're resting on a node between hunts, or not using them all you can maintain far sooner.

Do rogues use any of the other ones with any frequency to worry? Healing is the only one I'd even think they'd consider... but in my experience as a wizard it means I'm going to be resting anyway. (I wouldn't contest it's quite viable for a rogue to want to use healing during a hunt... but is it that frequent, and do you continue your hunt?)

[StrayRogue]

My spirit regens faster than my COL buffs drop, as a DE. It has done since I was 45. So no, it's no problem. And they are equal fastest with halflings.

[Renian]

The whole fast spirit thing is just a plus in case you used sign of healing, then sign of darkness to get the hell out of there despite shields/swords being up because if you didn't darkness, you'd die. I've had that situation a few times. Fortunately, due to my spirit regen as a giant, I was able to recover enough spirit before actually dying from those signs wearing off. A dark elf wouldn't be so lucky.

At higher levels, it's less of a threat, yes. But if you are playing some sort of mutant rogue that gets his face smashed in a lot, you're probably going to want to be a dwarf for that spirit regen just so you can use sign of healing more in the field.

[StrayRogue]

Or carry acantha leaf.

[DrZaius]

Or know a ranger who can get you some of that 50 hp fruit.

[grapedog]

So they don't have THE fastest. Personally, I don't like wasting the 8 seconds to knock down a critter. Plus as a dwarf I'd never, ever, be able to ambush with a claidh in 5 seconds, something I have no problem with as a DE, nor would I ever be able to compete with some rogues for the highest lock picked/trap disarmed.

For the 8 second thing, are you saying because a dwarf can't always attack neck/head he would have to leg em first, them head em?

Why, as a dwarf, would you not be able to compete for highest lock picked/trap disarmed?


edit: I'm returning after about 7 years away. I played for about a year before the ice-age and for a bunch of years afterwards. I had a mid 40's DE rogue(though i'm starting a new account, I did the final CoL and I'm not paying $250 to have them find my character), and I'm remembering bits and pieces, but most of it is still foggy.

[StrayRogue]

The eight second thing refers to hiding and legging, yes. Something a dwarf has to do against certain targets.

A dwarf will never have the highest lock/trap because those skills are based on Agi/Dex, which is something dwarves recieve only a small bonus to.

[grapedog]

The eight second thing refers to hiding and legging, yes. Something a dwarf has to do against certain targets.

A dwarf will never have the highest lock/trap because those skills are based on Agi/Dex, which is something dwarves recieve only a small bonus to.

As opposed to a sylvan or halfling which have very favorable bonuses correct, eg. sylvan +5/+10?

[StrayRogue]

Correct.

[grapedog]

So, even though they both could cap at 100, the initial + to the stat gives them a bonus beyond the 100?

I know when I look at a character, they have the stat and a bonus in (), how much does that bonus really transfer into actual gameplay. Doesn't seem like it would be a big bonus or have much of an effect.

[StrayRogue]

You will find that game mechanics very rarely take the actual stat into consideration. What is more important is the stat bonus. Obviously different race's have different bonuses. Some are higher or lower. While usually this is not very important, it can sometimes be as critical as one more or one less second or ambushing rt, a few points of CS or TD, or those extra hit points.

No, for picking it won't be massive. But like I said, you'll never hold the coveted title of highest lock picked.

[AestheticDeath]

edit: I'm returning after about 7 years away. I played for about a year before the ice-age and for a bunch of years afterwards. I had a mid 40's DE rogue(though i'm starting a new account, I did the final CoL and I'm not paying $250 to have them find my character), and I'm remembering bits and pieces, but most of it is still foggy.

I dont see why you would have to pay the $250 fee if he wasnt deleted. You should just be able to put in your old account info if you remember it. Or they could find it via your billing info etc..

Depends on what you remember. Unless I missed something.

[FinisWolf]

edit: I'm returning after about 7 years away. I played for about a year before the ice-age and for a bunch of years afterwards. I had a mid 40's DE rogue(though i'm starting a new account, I did the final CoL and I'm not paying $250 to have them find my character), and I'm remembering bits and pieces, but most of it is still foggy.

A heads up, if you know the account name / PW / Security Answer it doesn't cost anything but the subscription. (Other things can beused as well like first and last four of the CC used.)

Finis

[FinisWolf]

AD and I were on the same page with this :) ...

Finis

[grapedog]

I dont see why you would have to pay the $250 fee if he wasnt deleted. You should just be able to put in your old account info if you remember it. Or they could find it via your billing info etc..

Depends on what you remember. Unless I missed something.

I don't know how it is now, but when you used the final sign in CoL you vaporized your character and it brought you back to the re-roll screen.

I thought getting those back cost $250, when I was looking on the website.

[AestheticDeath]

Ah I didnt realize thats what you meant.

[Celephais]

I think you're confused as to what a stat/bonus is. The bonus is not applied to the stat, the bonus is a value derived from the stat.

Str is used to figure out melee weapon AS, if you have a 100 STR and a racial bonus of 0, you will have a bonus of 25 ((stat - 50)/2), and your AS will be 25 w/o weapon training. If you have a racial bonus of 10, your bonus will be 35, as will your AS. If your stat is 50, with a racial bonus of 10, your actual bonus will be 10, for a 10 AS...

That all make sense?

[grapedog]

so lockpicking with a character that has +15 dex(or agi, can't remember which affects picking) would have a total of 15 on top of the lockpicking skill at capp'd level.

I didn't realize it was such a direct correlation.

[Drew]

The best race for a rogue archer if half krolvin. They were built for archery.

[Fallen]

Giantmen make the best everything, especially now with enhansives.

Agreed. Strictly number crunching wise. Can't beat that health and encumbrance bonus.

[Celephais]

The best race for a rogue archer if half krolvin. They were built for archery.

I'm curious as to why you feel this way. I was under the impression archers didn't use a lot of CMans, and the elf races don't have penalties for strength, but have bonuses for dex.

Between that and the added agility (ds) of the elven races it would seem they trounce half-krovs in what's statistically important (what am I missing?)

[Drew]

With surge they can fire a hidden aimed longbow shot in 4 seconds, aimed in the open in 3. They don't take the dex penalty like giants plus have good encumberance, natural ice protection, good HPs, etc and fire faster than elves.

[Fahlen]

Undead, hands down.

[Renian]

Half-krolvin have the worst overall stats in the game. (Least net bonuses)

Dwarves have the same characteristics you mentioned, Drew, sans natural ice protection. Giants have better encumbrance and only take a -5 AS hit for archery.

[AestheticDeath]

Half-krolvin in my opinion would be a better race than giants for a rogue archer.

Even though they have a lower net bonus from stats, they have a higher net bonus from the ones that matter to your combat essentials. The physical stats.

Giants only have +15 net, where HKs have +25. They only take a small hit on STR which isnt used for much beyond RT, CON is the same, DEX is a 25 vs 20, so you have higher ranged AS, and AGI is +10 higher than a giantman, so you get another 10 DS in offensive.

For combat effectiveness Giants only have a +5 bonus over Half-Krolvins. Once you add in surge or 509 your going to get a 3 second longbow RT with either one. Its a difference of needing one rank of surge for a giant, or two ranks for a half-krolvin.

If you can get beyond the stigma of a half monkey type ugly thing. I like the stats on the HK.

[Renian]

Valid arguments. I guess then it's really a matter of how much you care about encumbrance, which shouldn't be too much with archery.

[fallenSaint]

Sylvand. Kthx.

[AestheticDeath]

whats the spirit regen on a krolvin? couldnt find it on simus website (anyone else not like their new layout?)

[Drew]

whats the spirit regen on a krolvin? couldnt find it on simus website (anyone else not like their new layout?)



Not that great, same as all the new non-gnome races and true elves:

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_regeneration

[AestheticDeath]

Thanks - isnt it sad that someone elses website is better than Simus?

[Bobmuhthol]

Yes, but not in the way that you're implying. More because someone would make such a website.

[Drew]

Thanks - isnt it sad that someone elses website is better than Simus?


Krakiipedia isn't actually Krakii's site (I don't know if you were implying this or not), he was just the inspiration for the name. I've been editing there a lot lately but Railien definitely is the most active editor on KP.

[AestheticDeath]

Yeah I knew it isn't actually Krakii.

The fact remains there are a ton of websites out there more informative and easier to navigate than Simus site. Even with their new revamp, their site still sucks. And their forums suck.

[grapedog]

Yeah I knew it isn't actually Krakii.

The fact remains there are a ton of websites out there more informative and easier to navigate than Simus site. Even with their new revamp, their site still sucks. And their forums suck.

quoted for truth and justice!