Starting a cleric

[Tenzle]

Hi, ive just come back to GS4 after a big break, I have a 20 giantman cleric that I loved so I want to start a new one just to get a feel for gs4. Ive been reading a lot of the boards and it seems like brawling/shield with atleast 2.25x spells is the way to go for later, but I'm wondering what is the best way to start my cleric off.

Ive got 28 days left of my quick mitigation period so I think I can get close to title before I have to change my cleric over. Whats the best way to start a cleric off, 1x cleric 1x major and one handed blunt seems the way to go (I have acess to a bit of my old clerics gear so I'll have the 4x sanct when I turn 10 etc).

What society should I start, how should my stats look (I'm a giantman), does the god I pick really matter this early on? What sort of training do you suggest?

[Rune]

Since I've noticed the cleric forums tend to be fairly quiet, I'll try to help you out a bit.

I came back about two months ago and I was in the same boat. I played around with skill migration and a lot of different setups and training plans.

Basically, your training would depend on what you want to do with your cleric. There are those who swear by 3x spells, those who swear by brawling/shield, and those (admittedly with more experience than me) who will tell you exactly how to make a perfect (insert type of cleric here).

I'll give you my opinions, but keep in mind that they are just that, opinions. Your mileage may vary.

First of all, you have to decide what sort of cleric you want to be. Do you want to only cast? Do you want to swing a weapon too? If you're going to be Voln, do you want to use voln-fu? All of the above?

For a pure caster cleric, I'd recommend going the runestaff route, with at least 2.5x spells, 1x MIU, 1x AS, 2x HP, 1x Lore (until you stop 2xing spirit mana control, then 1.5x), 2x Spirit Mana Control (until you can raise, then 1x) 1x PT until you hit your max blood, and 1x Armor until you get into whatever armor type you're going for. That'll give you 9-9.5 magic ranks per level and a good runestaff DS, and should be doable with some converting of PTP to MTP, with a few points left over to pick up necessities like climbing, swimming and perception. Though some number crunchers might prove me wrong.

The brawling/shield route will generate a higher DS for you than runestaves, and it will give you an alternative attack option (Voln-Fu) if you go Voln. To tell you the truth, DS hasn't been a problem for me yet, and as far as I know is never a problem for clerics. Many clerics like this route because they can sit in offensive stance and channel instead of cast, for bigger crits on 302 and easier hunting.

If you want to swing a weapon, then I would recommend dropping to either 2x or 2.25x spells, so you can train in CM as well. The swinging cleric is much easier to play if you're in the other society, but can work in Voln too.

There is also spell aiming to think about. If you do choose to train in it, make sure you 2x in it and 1x MIU so you can wave wands. Fire spirit (111) is now a viable hunting spell at higher levels if you train in Spirit Lore - Summoning. Holy bolt has always been a viable spell against undead, and is now even more so because of Spirit Lore - Religion.

Contrary to popular belief, you will not have any problems warding like level critters if you choose to go less than 1x in cleric circle. Contrary to popular belief, you will not even have problems uphunting by several levels if you choose to go less than 1x in cleric circle. Those who recommend keeping your cleric circle 20-60 (depending on who you talk to) ranks above your level are the ones looking for the maximum possible CS. It will help, but it is not necessary. I am less than 1x in cleric spells because I wanted to get 225 and 130 right away to be able to do rescues. It all depends on what you want your cleric to do.

I personally am on the multiple attack methods bandwagon. If you go pure caster, I would say fit in 2x spell aiming so you can bolt as well. If you go the Voln Fu route, you might want to convert to a Bane deity (unless you're doing smite for RP purposes), so you aren't relatively helpless against living monsters. Swingers might want to consider some spell aiming, voln swingers might want to add brawling so they can Fu.. etc.. etc.. Basically the more attack choices you have, the bigger the variety of stuff you'll be able to hunt effectively, and the more fun you will have hunting, instead of just typing prep 302 cast _____, over and over.

As far as deity alignment is concerned, if you don't convert, your 302 will take 4 mana and only work on undead. If you convert to a light aligned deity (with some exceptions), you will get smite, which will do more damage and only cost 2 mana against undead. If you convert to a dark aligned deity (with some exceptions), you'll get bane, which will do more damage and only cost 2 mana against living.

As far as stat placement goes.. the two schools of thought on it are:

1. Place stats to have as many 100s as possible at cap, while leaving one stat (usually influence) in the 70s. This method sacrifices TPs at the lower levels to be able to show off your stats at cap. It's generally accepted that if you don't plan for your character to hit the level cap, it's best not to place your stats like this. As a cleric, you'll end up being more of a swinger than a caster early on, due to higher placement of physical stats. Dexterity will usually end up as your highest stat, and so you really might want to consider spell aiming if you go this route.

2. Place stats to maximize training points when you're younger, without worrying about where stats will be at level 100. If you don't plan to get this character that high, this path will insure that you have more TPs to spend when you're younger and will generally make things easier on you early on. The drawback being, if you like your character and end up taking him to 100, over the long run (and I mean REALLY long run), you will have less TPs than someone who placed stats to hit max at cap.

Finally, I'll post my stats and training to give you a general idea of my particular style, which admittedly does differentiate quite a bit from most clerics these days.

Name: Exitialis Sapherion Race: Human Profession: Cleric (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 21 Expr: 1298622 Level: 34
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 98 (29) ... 98 (29)
Constitution (CON): 58 (4) ... 58 (4)
Dexterity (DEX): 56 (3) ... 56 (3)
Agility (AGI): 86 (18) ... 86 (18)
Discipline (DIS): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Aura (AUR): 97 (23) ... 97 (23)
Logic (LOG): 52 (6) ... 52 (6)
Intuition (INT): 92 (26) ... 92 (26)
Wisdom (WIS): 95 (22) ... 95 (22)
Influence (INF): 58 (4) ... 58 (4)
Mana: 111 Silver: 34

Exitialis (at level 34), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Shield Use.........................| 132 36
Combat Maneuvers...................| 82 18
Edged Weapons......................| 132 36
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24
Arcane Symbols.....................| 70 15
Magic Item Use.....................| 70 15
Harness Power......................| 132 36
Spirit Mana Control................| 132 36
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 132 36
Perception.........................| 30 6
Climbing...........................| 62 13
Swimming...........................| 35 7
First Aid..........................| 30 6

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 25

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 30

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 26
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)


Needless to say, my stats are going to suck at level 100. I decided that if I manage to somehow make it that far, and stay there long enough to care, I can accept that I will get less TP over time than the other way.

I just finished armor use at 35 ranks for Brigandine with minimum hinderance, so that will free up some TPs. I'm 2xing CM to catch up to be fully 1x, and 2xing perception and first aid to be fully 1x at some point. I'm stopping spirit mana control at 40 ranks. Climbing and swimming are .75x now, stopping at 30 ranks. MIU and AS are 1x at the moment until 25 ranks. I will 1x Religion Lore for life, and as soon as points permit, will begin 1x in the other lores until I am 1.75x, with 100 religion ranks, 50 blessings ranks, and 25 summoning ranks. At the moment I am around 2.33x spells, and am working on dropping that to 2.25x. I'm a master of the other society. Can hunt undead with 302 or living with a weapon easily. I can kill anything below level 50 or so with only my self-cast, plus mass spells and a statue, and haven't died hunting in 7 trains.

I'm sure the number crunchers will come along and be able to help you out a bit more specifically, but maybe this at least will give you a general idea. Good luck with your cleric, and welcome back.

[Tenzle]

Cool, I actually look pretty similar right now, I'm kindof addicted to moving around my skills in this first month, but a physical hunter has seemed the way to go cause I just dont have the mana. I think i might move on to the warding shield/brawl strat once my skill migration period is up if I'm high enough to be able to hunt that way

[Slark]

I was in a similar spot four months ago, or so. I came back to my level 23 dwarven cleric who I hadn't played in six years and had no idea what to do. I'm 43 now (I've had a lot of time to play) and I feel have a pretty good grasp on the class - better than most people. I'll tell you what I've found. I'll include the obvious disclaimer that most of this stuff is my opinion, but the numbers are not.

I chose to align to Charl for RP reasons, mechanics reasons, and due to the advice of many others. If you were unaware, Charl is one of (if not THE) only "light" arkati that provides the bane spell. The truth is, when you get to higher levels (70's and up), there just isn't that much undead to hunt. You might find yourself hunting the same critter for 10 levels. The idea of this didn't appeal to me.

I was already a member of voln when I reactivated my account, so I stuck with it. Since bane doesn't do so well with killing undead, I 2x'd in spell aiming and hunted them with holy bolt. The truth is, clerics make great bolters until their 40's or so - until around 30 trains, they can even bolt better than wizards (due to the hard bonus of 211 and 215). I mowed through arch wights (always killed them before they even thought about boiling me) and then monks and liches in the monastery after I mastered voln. Since I was bolting, I didn't worry about boosting my cleric spell circle to pump up my CS. I just focused on the actual spells...coming from level 1 I would've gone 318 first, then 120, then 225, then 25 ranks in cleric circle for a better raise, then 40 ranks in cleric circle for the best raise (I went over my level here), then 130, which I saved for the end because I used symbol of return in the mean time.

When you're younger, you're practically training 1x in arcane symbols, magic item use, harness power, and probably 1.5-2x in SMC so you can raise at level 18. Between this and spells (2x? 2.5x?) and bolting (2x), you're darn near 10 magic ranks per level, so you can use a runestaff pretty well without putting any extra effort into it. When you get older, it makes more sense to stop AS and MIU at 25 ranks each, and back down to 1x SMC, and drop bolting altogether. That brings me to my cleric today.

My current plan is roughly 3x in spells (2.8 until my 70's or so), 1x brawling, 1x lores (40 religion, 10 blessing, 15 summoning [or maybe those two are reversed, I can never keep them straight]) until I'm 65, 1x SMC, 1x first aid, and then the basics - 25 AS, MIU, physical training, 20 of climbing and swimming (until I boost climbing to 40 for the rift), 8 ranks of armor for doubles.

It's harder for me to hunt undead now, but I don't really mind. I don't use as much favor since I have 130 and I don't bolt, so mostly I just used symbol of protection. Besides, with 1x in brawling with a bit of strength and mobility, I can fu pretty much anything like level, and if I ward them first with 301 (usually from a gem), it's no contest. If I had to do it again, I might've found some way to work 1x brawling into my training from the beginning so I could fu and bolt, but that's mostly because I think fu is fun (no puns about putting the FU in fun). My ultimate plan is to swap out of voln in my 60's or so, when undead hunting becomes harder than it already is and when I'll be using 317 more than 302 (which is what I'm using now), and mana will be a concern (wracking in CoL is clutch). I'm of the personal belief that Voln is a better society for everyone except clerics since we already have most of what Voln has to offer. But that's just me, and society has a lot to do with roleplay.



So, if you didn't read all that, and you're skipping to the end, here's the gist of it all. Your cleric when you're young could be totally different when you're old, and it probably should be if you're interested in using the cleric to its full potential as far as spellcasting goes. So, if you have a fixskills (which you probably do), save it until you're 40 or so.

I believe people talk best about what they know, and what I know is how I trained my cleric and the reasoning behind it. I hope it helps you. If you have any questions, let me know.

[Tenzle]

Well I just hit 11 last night and sofar Ive just been plowing through stuff with my grandpas mace, mostly kickin arse and taking names, and everything everyone seems to read or say is that "you can do whatever you want till your about 30" then you really want to ward stuff. So I think thats what im going to do. Ive never been much of a runestaffer, so I think im going to go brawling and Shield for some fun FU, and a nice ds later. Im still in voln because Ive never had a voln character high enough and mastering col just sucks untill your older and getting 15 troll skins isent daunting anymore. The thing that i really dont understand is why nobody goes for 240 before 130, Have any of you out there had any experience with it, does it last more than 1 cast how cool is it?

[Slark]

130 comes first for two reasons...first off, when you rescue someone, 130 is what gets you back to town, and it's great to have the ability to rescue since 90% of raises these days go to foggers. Sure, you could use symbol of return, but who wants to waste all that favor? Secondly, if you get 240 when you're in your 40's or even your 50's, you probably won't have the mana to use it very often. I'm not saying it's impossible, but even if you could spare the mana it's probably not worth it, because if you train properly, you'll be warding 80, 90, 100% of the time anyways (on like-level critters).

[Aasterinian]

Don't play a cleric, it is a path of WOE.

Trust me.

Reroll into a sorc or something.

[Lassiter 506]

Couldn't agree more. Play a cleric for the RP, if that is what you really enjoy. In the game mechanics area, a Sorcerer has far more going on. Both are equally viable hunting certain areas, but it does get a bit old using the same old cleric warding attack spells to see something drop.

And to answer the question of getting 240 at train 40, do it if you are in COL, and trippling spells. 240 is a game changer for the profession. Not only will you efficiently decimate swarms of what you are hunting, you'll also be saving mana doing it (sounds strange, but when you have it timed, it's a charm). You'll also be able to uphunt some, if that challenge is something you enjoy.