Medical Malady, anyone else experience this?

[Jazuela]

My MRI just came back, and the diagnosis is osteochondral defect, in the femoral condyle. Basically it's a hole in the femur (thigh bone) all the way down at the bottom where it links up to the knee. My doctor says I need surgery and sent me on a referal to a *spine* specialist, so obviously I've been looking in the area for board-certified osteo doctors who specialize in knee injuries instead (my doctor isn't the brightest bulb in the lamp). Apparently arthroscopy isn't the right kind of surgery for this, but it's a fairly common sports injury so a sports guy will probably be the right pick. We'll see.

In the meantime, has anyone else here had surgery or a diagnosis of this specific problem? Or know anyone who has? I'd like to hear about other experiences with it, so I have some idea of what to expect from someone who's been there rather than the usual "You'll be fine" you get from the doctors.

[Leetahkin]

Sorry, I have no experience with that.
It sounds painful.
Good luck, all the same.

[Soulpieced]

You probably want an Orthopedic Surgeon that specializes in knees and backs. I think they could probably take care of you, though hip problems aren't as common.

[Sean of the Thread]

When looking for doctors .. ones who specialize on athletes are typically the best. Just something to keep in mind.

[HarmNone]

Your idea to see a sports medicine specialist is right on target. Until you've actually seen the doc it's impossible to know what method he/she'll choose to deal with your problem. There's more than one surgical intervention that can be used, depending on the severity of the defect.

[Liberi Fatali]

My MRI just came back, and the diagnosis is osteochondral defect, in the femoral condyle. Basically it's a hole in the femur (thigh bone) all the way down at the bottom where it links up to the knee. My doctor says I need surgery and sent me on a referal to a *spine* specialist, so obviously I've been looking in the area for board-certified osteo doctors who specialize in knee injuries instead (my doctor isn't the brightest bulb in the lamp). Apparently arthroscopy isn't the right kind of surgery for this, but it's a fairly common sports injury so a sports guy will probably be the right pick. We'll see.

In the meantime, has anyone else here had surgery or a diagnosis of this specific problem? Or know anyone who has? I'd like to hear about other experiences with it, so I have some idea of what to expect from someone who's been there rather than the usual "You'll be fine" you get from the doctors.

I can't say I've ever seen a diagnosis of such a defect in the femoral condyle. The closest thing to that I've seen thus far would probably be osteochondritis dissecans.

I've got a friend that is an orthopaedic surgeon -- rest assured, during their four (or five) year training they are exposed to a plethora of spinal surgeries, and many of them drop doing joint surgery all together and specialize on spinal surgery. When your doctor recommended a spinal specialist, he undoubtedly was either referring to an orthopaedic surgeon, or a neurosurgeon -- both of which are capable of remedying your situation.

I'm focusing on cardiothoracic surgery, so this is 'out of my field' so to speak. I can contact/ask some of my professors here if you have any elaborate questions. Feel free to private message me, or IM me at WILWIL05.

[HarmNone]

Ummm...osteochondritis dissecans is just the old name for an osteochondral defect. While the condition can't be said to be common, it isn't all that unusual, either.

[Liberi Fatali]

Ummm...osteochondritis dissecans is just the old name for an osteochondral defect. While the condition can't be said to be common, it isn't all that unusual, either.

HarmNone, you need to get some other references besides google, honestly. What do you do for a living, exactly, besides light candles?

I didn't say it was common or uncommon. I'm a fucking first year (soon to be second), what do you expect?

And for the record, the diagnosis I mentioned earlier was an OCD lesion in a golden retrievers shoulder, which is MOST CERTAINLY NOT THE SAME THING AS A HUMAN FEMUR CONDYLE.

[Jazuela]

Heh well *I* did a bit of googling just now and it sounds like you're both wrong! <grin> According to the first 2 pages of returns, osteochondral dissecans is a -fracture- in the bone, and it has something to do with some tarsus thing (I didn't actually read all those articles, I just skimmed the first-line summaries of the google returns). What I have isn't a break, it's a hole. But yeah a couple of those returns did indicate that the former had once been used as the term for the latter, so HarmNone is probably correct - that it _was_ the term for it, and then they gave it a new term and the old term now means something else.

Whatever, I have what I have, a hole in my knee somewhere.

As for the spine doctor, my doctor referred me to an ortho surgeon. *I* found out this ortho guy specializes in spinal surgery. My doctor never said "I'm sending you to a spine guy." The guy he sent me to -is- a spine guy, who does not specialize in limb/joint repair, or even sports medicine.

Thanks for the encouragement y'all, I think I'm gonna stick with the sports med guy, if I can get an appointment to see him. He's one of the area's top in the field. Maybe if I tell his secretary that he and I went to high school together and he used to date one of my friends, ya think it'll get me an appointment? <chuckle> Can't hurt I suppose. We'll have to see what kind of availability he has.

[CrystalTears]

Way to tell a nurse of many years that she doesn't know what she's talking about, that Google does. You both lose at life.

[Skirmisher]

HarmNone, you need to get some other references besides google, honestly. What do you do for a living, exactly, besides light candles?

I didn't say it was common or uncommon. I'm a fucking first year (soon to be second), what do you expect?

And for the record, the diagnosis I mentioned earlier was an OCD lesion in a golden retrievers shoulder, which is MOST CERTAINLY NOT THE SAME THING AS A HUMAN FEMUR CONDYLE.

Mr fucking first year, get a degree first and until then stfu.

[Liberi Fatali]

Mr fucking first year, get a degree first and until then stfu.

Touche. I like the emphasis you placed in your sentence. Charming.

I wasn't trying to initiate an argument. Harmnone just seems to fancy breaking my balls in every thread I post it. I honestly didn't know she was a nurse in her 'past life', considering she attempts to reign supreme in every thread I view (and it usually seems as though she has just googled an answer).

Fightin' ain't really my cuppa tea. Besides, this thread is about comforting Jazuela, not arguing with Harmnone or I.

[CrystalTears]

What past life? She IS a nurse.

By the way, did you get tired of bugs (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=355629&postcount=486)? :D

[Latrinsorm]

Harmnone just seems to fancy breaking my balls in every thread I post it.All she has to do is alternate left and right punches to the head, it's not like it's some vendetta.

[Kierke]

A large part of school is evaluating and discarding options. Gods know I was into different things my first year of classes than I was my fourth. I spent all of my time taking art history classes and getting excited about Fra Angelico (the artist, not the drink). Now much to my husband's dismay I bore his fellow teachers with foramen and dental microwear. People change.

Frankly, if your classes aren't getting you excited about the subject you're studying, you're probably studying the wrong subject.

Meghan

[HarmNone]

Heh. Googling wasn't necessary. I'm somewhat familiar with the condition; although, I haven't suffered it myself. I'm sorry if I tread too heavily on Tabor's little ego, but...well, osteochondritis dessicans is an outdated term in human medicine. Veterinary medicine is, likely, still using it; however, we aren't talking about Golden Retrievers here...

[Jazuela]

Well I made an appointment with a guy who specializes in sports medicine, for an evaluation, in two weeks. Since I've had this problem for at least a year (that's when I first noticed there was a problem), it's not an emergency thing. If the doc agrees that I need surgery I'll schedule it for early summer, after kids get out of school for the year. That way I'll have coverage at work and won't feel bad about leaving them in a lurch.

Thanks for "being there" folks, it's really appreciated!

[HarmNone]

Let us know what you find out after seeing the specialist, Jazuela. I know this can be quite painful, so I hope there's a relatively simple solution for you. :)

[HarmNone]

To answer your questions, Tabor, I'm a Masters trained RN (MSN) who also holds a Masters in Healthcare Administration. While I don't practice bedside nursing at this time, I do try to keep up with what's going on and current treatment modalities.

Furthermore, my mission in life is not to "bust your balls". Believe me, your balls mean nothing to me. That's a promise. :)

[Tannious]

Well as far as this goes, I'm currently recovering from a surgery for this exact thing. There are a number of ways they can fix this. And I know this can get extremly painful. First off (what they did with me not sure if it worked) but they'll go in clean up the inside of your knee. I've had two nasty tramas to my knee so my cartilidge is all tore up so they smoothed that out, took a few loose bodies out and they had to nail a flap of cartilidge down. Next what they did with the hole was clean the rest of the cartilidge out that is left over it. Then they take a drill and drill tiny little holes in the bone to promote scar cartilidge. Now because of this delicate bone structure from the drilling you can't put weight on your leg for at least a month to 6 weeks. Then it is long and slow rehab. Can't push it to much because you can damage that spot easily. Now for me it has been almost 6 months now of rehab. I had the surgery on Jan 6th. The whole surgery said and done took about a hour or so to do.

Now my dileama is that this surgery might not have worked for me. So the next step is they go in and harvest some cells to grow cartilidge for me. And the resulting surgery is a more serious and longer one. They take the grown catilidge and anchor it to the bone. I don't know too much about this procdure as of yet. But it's 6 months on crutches and a year or so of rehab. So obviously you want the first surgery to work.

Also as far as a doctor goes. I would totally go for a sports medicine guy. My doc is one of the Cleveland Clinic guys who works with the Cavs and Browns. They totally have seen all sorts of nasty things so odds are you'll be in good hands.

Also they may just end up rehabing you to see if they can get cartilidge to grow on it own I don't know. But I'll let ya'll know about the second surgery if I end up having to get that one also. Dear god I hope not I've been out of work for almost a year now. Stupid workers comp and paperwork.


Tannious

you can drop me an IM at LordTannious or a message here if you have any questions I might be able to answer for you.

[HarmNone]

Thanks, Tannious. It's always good to hear from someone who has actually undergone treatment/surgery for a given condition. While healthcare professionals might have all the technology down-pat, the one who really knows how it feels is the patient. Your input is invaluable. :)

[AnticorRifling]

Lol first year med student! You know the difference between your ass and a hole in the ground but that's only because you know the latin term for ass. That's like me giving my medical opinion because I own the first season of ER on dvd.

[Jazuela]

Wow Tannious, your input is really appreciated. I know how hard it is to even -think- about that kind of pain, let alone talk about the whole ordeal. Fortunately (yeah, that's what I said), I've had leg surgery in the past, and serious rehab. Back when I had the car accident in 1982 I broke my femur, radius, ulna, clavical, and 3 ribs all on my left side. And - I'm left-handed. After a 6-hour operation to insert a 13-inch steel rod into my femur, and twin plates on each side of my forarm, I was in the hospital for an additional 9 days. That was after 4 days of CICU and 1 day prep time for surgery. Then it was 6 months intensive physical therapy, electronic bone-healing thingamabob attached to my arm 10 hours a day, and limping for 2 years with a cane for the first (I couldn't use crutches because of the arm, and decided if I had to use -one- crutch I might as well look more stylish with a shelelagh :) )

Two years later they took the plates out of my arm. A year after that the steel rod in my leg started slipping (I could feel it against my butt...very strange), so they had to do an emergency removal the following day.

Having lived with degenerative disk disease for the past 20 years, and osteopenia in my spine and hip for the past 2 (possibly longer but not likely), I'm no stranger to pain. It's the monotony that's gonna drive me nuts, being cooped up in the house in the summer time, with no air conditioning, and not being able to float in the pool because of some stupid THING on my knee that can't get wet. Plus - it's gonna be sponge baths, because we have a shower, but not a tub. Esh - not looking forward to the inconvenience at all. The pain - muh. I'm used to it, and I've experienced enough to know I can live with it.

[Artha]

and not being able to float in the pool because of some stupid THING on my knee that can't get wet.
You could always wrap it in a trashbag.

[AnticorRifling]

Naw, get a floatie and relax on the side of the pool, this will allow you to prop the bum kicker on the side of the pool. Sure it's not a splashing good time but it will allow you to relax and read a book or ten.

[Jazuela]

I don't have a side of the pool. It's one of those new-fangled plastic jobs with the rim you inflate with air. I -do- have a floatie though, and the trash bag might work IF I can figure out how to get from the ladder down to the floatie without falling in. Thanks for the idea, combining the two might just do the trick!

[AnticorRifling]

You must learn to think outside the pool!

[Jazuela]

Think..
outside...
the pool.

Man that was even corny as hell to an old bag like me!

Cute though, thanks for cheering me up!

[Tannious]

heh...thought I'd drop an update. Saw my doc on Friday and well he thinks either the surgery is a complete or partial failure. So now I get to wait three weeks to get an MRI approved to see how bad off I am. So either I'm going to need more therapy, minor surgery or that fun major one I was talking about in my last post.

Now to find a nice lawyer to get some more money since I'm making half of what I should be if I was working...workers comp sucks btw...:club:


Tannious

[AnticorRifling]

Those who can't, sue.

[Jazuela]

Hey at least your injury happened at work so you can collect -something- in addition to cover more than the cost of the medical bills. I didn't -have- an injury, it just kinda happened over time I guess. Probably because I always sit cross-legged and it put stress on the knee or something. Can't help that though, the car accident that broke my leg in '83 caused scar tissue on the middle of my femur so sitting in a chair with my feet down on the floor like normal people do isn't an option for me, it gets way too painful after around 10 minutes of sitting like that.

My doctor's appointment is wednesday morning, I'm hoping for the best but willing (more or less) to accept the worst.

[Tannious]

No not sueing persay. I'm currently getting paid what I was 7 years ago when I originally got hurt. Needless to say that is a bit less than half of what I was making when I stopped working. And now that I've been out of work for a year and going on possibly my third surgery I think I need to talk to a lawyer.

My mother was talking to the lawyer at her work and he says I can get the place that I got hurt at to compensate me for the difference of what I'm getting to what I was making. Yes it might be sueing but I don't see how I'm a bad person for doing that. I've had to move back home, and pretty much put my life on hold again because of my knee. But whatever...


Tann

[Stanley Burrell]

I'd get them to fix it...

...Or inflict the reciprocal condition ten-fold upon the fools whom deserve no pitying in such an instance :-X

[Jazuela]

Update: Had my surgery on Friday. I was awake and alert and got to watch the whole procedure on the video monitor next to the operating table. Turns out, "drilling" is just what they call it, but it isn't really what the do. He put a little pin through the tube, and gave it a push to open a tiny hole in the divot, which makes the bone marrow seep out and fill up the divot. Time will tell if it worked - he says there's a 75% success rate on this procedure, and the failure just means I'm no worse off than when we started.

Yesterday I was very sore, but thank god for percosets :) That's what the doc said I had to take, and told me to take as needed, when needed, up to 2 every 4 hours. I didn't use -quite- that many, but pretty close yesterday. Today I only took 2 in total, will probably take a 3rd before bedtime.

I'm walking around now, with a limp because of the soreness deep inside the bone. But I can bear my full weight on the leg without any problem at all.

[HarmNone]

I'm glad it's behind you, Jazuela, and that the pain is lessening. A 75% success rate is pretty good odds, I'd say. :)