First attempt at a rogue archer (For GSIV)

[ThisOtherKingdom]

I'm a half-elf, 31 trains.

Here's my training:

1x armor
2x ranged
2x ambush
1x physical training
1x dodge
3x picking
3x disarming
3x hiding
3x perception
2x pickpocket

My AS with signs, 4x longbow and +25 arrows would be +223.

Considering I know hardly anything about archery, am I doing anything wrong? Any suggestions whatsoever?

[StrayRogue]

You need brawl for DS.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

I read, I believe on the official boards, that they are changing that. I remember a few people being happy that they don't have to waste the TPs on "something they couldn't afford anyway."

[StrayRogue]

Perhaps, though I am not sure. I shall find out for you tommorow.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

It seems I made a mistake. I was doing all of my attacking kneeling from hiding. Since I have a 0x bow in GS4 and 0x arrows, I was just adding the +45 to my AS, which would have come out to 223.

Well, now I'm using a +19 bow in GS4 beta. And I decided to shoot something from the open, standing. My AS was 247?!

Like I said, I'm new to this. And now I'm also completely lost.

[Drew2]

Bows you shoot standing. Crossbows you shoot kneeling.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Originally posted by Tayre
Bows you shoot standing. Crossbows you shoot kneeling.

Well, I think that explains that problem!

[Tendarian]

The GMs have said the base training for rogues on dodge is 2x and if you have no shield it should be more. Id at least consider bumping dodge to 2x instead of 1x. Right now in gs4 brawling doesnt add DS so im not training in it either. Also you might want to eventually try to fit in some CM for when the maneuvers come out,Shadow Mastery seems like it was made for archers,or even mfire (mstrike for bows).

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Originally posted by Tendarian
The GMs have said the base training for rogues on dodge is 2x and if you have no shield it should be more. Id at least consider bumping dodge to 2x instead of 1x.

Too expensive for me to handle. I don't want to forfit the lockpicking or pickpocketing, I enjoy those two skills way too much. Plus I don't think dodge will be extremly necessary for me considering it's a RANGED weapon and my hiding will be superior.

I mostly likely will train in CM as I can afford it. I could've had 6 ranks at level 31 but I just happened to put them all into PT during that particular reallocation.

I also forgot to mention that I'll have 403 at level 31.

[Edited on 10-22-2003 by ThisOtherKingdom]

[Tendarian]

Ahh that makes more sense then. I keep adjusting my training but at the moment i think my training is something like:

.8x Armor (32 ranks)
.8x CM (32 ranks)
2x Ranged
2x Ambush
2x Dodge
3x Perception
3x Pick
3x Disarm
2x Hide (as of now i hardly ever hide so i figure i could skimp here for me personally)
.4x climb
.3x swim
1x PT
2x PP

So its pretty similar cept i value dodge more and you value hiding more. And we both sacrifice for picking. Ill probably change this 12 more times til the changes go in though. Next week ill think no picking pure archer! and then ill switch to average at everything,then back to pure picking.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Here's a question...

How important are armor ranks? At first I thought stopping at brig would be enough. But then redux occurred to me. How much redux could I expect to get with my training as it is, including spells I plan on getting. Will 1x armor for life be a waste considering my redux looks to be ineffectual?

RP reasons make me want to stop at 30 ranks also. I don't picture my archer rogue running around in full plate.

[Tendarian]

Im not actually sure,they said it would be harder to hide in armor over brig(chain and plate) but to my knowledge they either havent put this in the beta yet or its not very significant. I agree with you though,id prefer to just wear brig as it looks nicer but if i can wear chain with no hiding dificulties im going to. If it is harder to hide i plan on stopping armor use as soon as my sweep penalty is removed and put those points into more hiding or save for 4 spells.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by ThisOtherKingdom
Here's a question...

How important are armor ranks? At first I thought stopping at brig would be enough. But then redux occurred to me. How much redux could I expect to get with my training as it is, including spells I plan on getting. Will 1x armor for life be a waste considering my redux looks to be ineffectual?

RP reasons make me want to stop at 30 ranks also. I don't picture my archer rogue running around in full plate.

That would be my concern.. especially for a ranged rogue. Hiding in heavy armor is supposed to be hard to do... so basically, you would be wasting the 3x hiding and 2x armor as they would go against each other.

Personally, I would get some nice brig if you plan on being stealthy and hiding.

[Edaarin]

Archery sucks once you're past level 30.

There, I just saved you hours of planning time.

[Tendarian]

At level 41 im having an extremely easy time. Its almost boring sometimes it so easy really. I havent died in months when i do get hit its for a scratch even when im kneeling in offensive. Whoever told you that it sucks after 30 didnt play an archer for very long or just is so used to ambush crit ranks that they are biased. I also have friends who are archers who are a lot older than me and do fine as well.

[Dinara]

Late to this but No you don't need brawling at all. Solli confirmed this about a month ago.

And personally archery is great after 30, 40, 50, 60. My characters love it and its much more challenging than edged.

[Parkbandit]

If Falgrin didn't have such a special cleaver made just for him... I would change him to an archer.

[Edaarin]

Heh, um, try archery in the test game with a post-30 character. Try hunting with random crits. It sucks.

[Speaker]

I believe Archery in GS4 was recently fixed, it's actually quite effective.

-Speaker

[Sean]

dont listen to speaker he cheats anyway

[Speaker]

I don't cheat! Really I don't! :saint:

-Speaker

[Sean]

do too! now give me your elemental bow and ill clear your name

[Parkbandit]

Screw you Tijay.. that bow is mine.

[StrayRogue]

You all sure brawling does not and will not aid archery DS in GS4? I've burned alot of points on 2xing it so far.

[Speaker]

Yep, brawlin for defense is done with. I think we can all be pretty happy about that. :thumbsup:

-Speaker

[StrayRogue]

What replaces it then? I didn't think the archery docs were out.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
What replaces it then? I didn't think the archery docs were out.

Most of the basics are out.. When I get home tonight, I'll dig through my notes.

I know perception is a big skill now for archers.. but not sure if that only helps AS or if it also aides DS.

[Drew2]

Does brawling help Polearm defense? In either 3 or 4?

[StrayRogue]

No.

[Drew2]

Then WTF is my bard singling in it for???

[StrayRogue]

Because he likes fisting? You tell me.

[Drew2]

......no.

[StrayRogue]

Moving away from Tayre's characters sexual desires, and back to archery, can anyone hook me up with a decent fletching script?

[Drew2]

You're such a bitch Stay.

And the worst part is, you enjoy it.

::sighs and sulks away::

[StrayRogue]

Victory is mine!

[StrayRogue]

Oh, heres the Archery documentation:

Archery
There are two types of archery weapons available for use in GemStone IV: the bow and the crossbow. There are several variations within those two types, such as composite bows, long bows and short bows, as well as light crossbows and heavy crossbows. The biggest difference between the two is how they are used.

Bow
In order to fire a bow, the archer must first hold the bow in the left hand. Holding the bow in the left hand is required to gain the necessary Defense Strength (DS) bonus. Next, take one arrow out of your arrow bundle by typing GET 1 ARROW in the command prompt. Lastly, fire the bow by typing FIRE BOW AT <target> or FIRE <target>.

Each type of bow has a base Roundtime (RT). Short bows have a 5 second RT, composite bows have a 6 second RT, and long bows have a 7 second RT. Your archer's strength bonus decreases this RT. For every +10 strength bonus, the RT for firing your bow is decreased by one. The minimum RT to fire a bow does not go below three seconds. Certain factors, such as encumbrance or being under-trained for your armor, can increase RT.

Crossbow
In order to fire a crossbow, the archer must first hold the crossbow in the left hand. Holding the crossbow in the left hand is required to gain the necessary Defense Strength (DS) bonus. Next, with the right hand open, ready the crossbow by typing COCK CROSSBOW. Be aware that cocking the crossbow forces you into offensive stance. Once the crossbow is cocked, get a bolt from your bolt bundle by typing GET 1 BOLT in the command prompt and load the crossbow by typing LOAD CROSSBOW. Finally, fire the crossbow by typing FIRE CROSSBOW AT <target> or FIRE <target>.

Each type of crossbow has a base Roundtime (RT). Cocking a light crossbow has a 6 second RT and cocking heavy crossbow has a 9 second RT. The archer's strength bonus decreases this RT. For every +10 strength bonus, the RT for cocking your crossbow is decreased by one. The minimum RT to cock a crossbow does not go below three seconds for a light crossbow and 6 seconds for a heavy crossbow. Certain factors, such as encumbrance or being under-trained for your armor, can increase RT. The RT to fire a crossbow is 2 seconds flat.

Aiming and Sniping
It is possible to aim at a specific body part using either a bow or crossbow. Aiming at a specific body part adds one second of Roundtime (RT). To aim the bow or crossbow, type AIM <body part> in the command prompt. To discontinue aiming, simply type AIM CLEAR.

An archer may snipe a target from a hidden location. This lethal move adds an additional one second RT to the total firing RT for both a bow and a crossbow. Training in the Stalking and Hiding skill increases the chance that an archer remains hidden after firing their bow or crossbow.

Archery Attack Strength (AS)
Archers can do several things in order to better their Attack Strength (AS). Firstly, training in the Ranged Weapon skill is a necessity. Other Character Manager skills that increase an archer?s strength bonus include Perception and Ambush training beyond the first 40 ranks. The Dexterity stat and certain spells also help with overall strength.

Archery Defense Strength (DS)
Holding the bow or crossbow in the left hand is the first requirement of defense for an archer, providing the archer with a measure of defense to represent that the archer is attempting to remain at range. Weapon skill for right hand weapons (or brawling skill if the right hand is empty) is ignored while Archer Defense is in effect. Other than that, archers calculate their Defense Strength the same way as any other character, using the Evade, Block, and Parry examples in the Combat Guide.

Bundling Ammo
You can put a piece of ammo back into a bundle that is inside a specific container by typing PUT MY <ammo in hand> IN MY <same type ammo bundle> IN MY <container>.

Bundling Blessed and Ebladed Ammo
In order to keep a bundle of bolts or arrows blessed/ebladed, the archer must make special efforts to bundle their ammo. After firing a bolt or arrow at a target, the archer must return it to the original bundle upon which the spell was cast. If the archer were to shoot that same piece of ammo again, without rebundling, it would lose its bless/eblade. Proper rebundling recharges the fired bolt or arrow for the duration of the bless/eblade.

This message was originally posted in The Next Generation of GemStone, Combat Changes. To discuss the above follow the link below.

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=30&category=101&topic=7&message =3320

[Tendarian]

The RT to fire a crossbow is 2 seconds flat.

This is the best frigging news ive heard all week! Yay!