Spell 540

[Things2Come]

What do you think of the idea for spell 540?

[Kitsun]

For the people who don't follow the Official Boards like a hawk...

Temporal Reversion 540

Type: Defense

Duration: 10 Minutes

This spell, as proposed here, allows the wizard to turn back the hands of time when successfully attacked physically. The Temporal Reversion effect returns the wizard to the moment before the initial attack better prepared to meet a potentially powerful, incoming assault. In practical application, this means first attack will not "count" and the creature will have to take a second attack roll at the wizard. Meanwhile the wizard automatically experiences a +200 DS boost and a dramatically heightened ability to defend against critter-based maneuver attacks when encountering this second try.

The ability to shift time is always a chancy thing. The spell would only be successful based upon:

10% + (Elemental Mana Control skill/30)


There is also discussion about giving wizards with lore training a chance to add an elemental counter attack to the automatic DS boost if they shift into Temporal Reversion mode.

[Latrinsorm]

What I'd suggest:

Double chances, half bonus. A 20% chance with 200 mf-in ranks is *awful*. A 40% chance is pretty crappy too, but nothing to sneeze at. Generally wizards have plenty of DS anyway, so this is really a lifesaver sort of spell, and a lifesaver that fails more often than it works isn't terribly impressive. Under the current implementation, a wizard has to get attacked 4 times to have a better than even chance of the spell activating with maximum training. A wizard who is in dire straights isn't going to survive 3 attacks, as wizards have +30 nanciness.

What exactly about the Troubador's Rally (1040) fiasco made Simu think a near-clone would be well received?

edit p.s: When did wizards become chronomages?

[The Ponzzz]

Temperal magic is indeed a nice touch, but it no where is in a wizard's circle, as of now. It makes little, to no sense why this was chosen over something like -Summon Elemental- or -Elemental Counter Strike- other than the fact wizards have slow and haste. And like Latrinsorm said, at cap to ONLY have 20% is awful, that's saying you 2x EMC...

Horrible horrible idea. I hope wizards have a shot at something good with 940...

[Makkah]

I coulda sworn SLOW and HASTE were temporal-effect spells. GO FIGURE.

[Valthissa]

the idea seems sound enough...but I think the formula needs serious adjustment.

C/Valth

[Kitsun]

What sold me on this spell was my experience with Stronghold. When I hunted there, I died at least once a day to Stonefist.

If I had this spell up, at the very least it'd save me one out of ten hits. If this spell saved me just once, it'd already be more times than Stoneskin has saved me since its creation.

I think the 200DS boost is more or less a non-factor but it *does* give insight into how much the creator thinks this spell would be worth against a maneuver attack (a significant amount). I normally don't get nicked to death but go from living to dead because of maneuvers; with my current training this spell puts one deed back in my pocket for every six times I should die.

[Fission]

What's with making what are some of the most powerful spells in certain circles basically pointless to use? I'd rather have another bolt spell than something like this that may only fire 10 or 20% of the time at best.

[Kitsun]

GS players have some insane aversion to chance. This is clearly evident in any spell proposal where GMs try to input a random chance for a huge bonus; players always prefer consistency with a lower bonus.

Its simply a matter of taste, I suppose.

[The Ponzzz]

I coulda sworn SLOW and HASTE were temporal-effect spells. GO FIGURE.

As I pointed out in my post...

[Things2Come]

What sold me on this spell was my experience with Stronghold. When I hunted there, I died at least once a day to Stonefist.

If I had this spell up, at the very least it'd save me one out of ten hits. If this spell saved me just once, it'd already be more times than Stoneskin has saved me since its creation.

I think the 200DS boost is more or less a non-factor but it *does* give insight into how much the creator thinks this spell would be worth against a maneuver attack (a significant amount). I normally don't get nicked to death but go from living to dead because of maneuvers; with my current training this spell puts one deed back in my pocket for every six times I should die.


I also hunted the stronghold and stonefist is a problem, but having a 10% chance to stop it, for 40 mana, is .. pathetic.

With good hunting tactics, you can pretty much be immune to stonefist, unless you're taking on a swarm.

I've seen other good ideas posted on the wizard forums, so when I read this spell idea this morning, I started to consider taking up another profession, because it seems that Wizards are going to get the short end of the stick in the near future.

[Snapp]

the idea seems sound enough...but I think the formula needs serious adjustment.

C/Valth
:yeahthat:
It sounds like it could be a pretty cool spell with a few tweaks.

[Kitsun]

I also hunted the stronghold and stonefist is a problem, but having a 10% chance to stop it, for 40 mana, is .. pathetic.

With good hunting tactics, you can pretty much be immune to stonefist, unless you're taking on a swarm.

I've seen other good ideas posted on the wizard forums, so when I read this spell idea this morning, I started to consider taking up another profession, because it seems that Wizards are going to get the short end of the stick in the near future.

I almost always died as I walked into the room with a shaman with stonefist prepped. I'd see the skull in the Wizard FE before the room description actually even began to scroll by. Even using a familiar to scout wouldn't have helped that.

I'd be happy if the spell got uptweaked from this proposal as much as anyone else, but I don't think Warden will ever let a 30% to 50% immunity spell slide by.

[Things2Come]

I took a hit and run approach to the stronghold, I set up psinet aliases to run into the room and bolt immediately, hopefully before they had a chance to act.

Also, flag descrip off... Really helps to cut down on the text scroll.

[Things2Come]

I also want to point out that at this time, they have not given us any other information as to what is actually going to get a defensive boost. For all we know, this could only affect very few maneuvers, instead of Cmans, ewaves, boils, and all the different maneuver spells and abilities that exist.

[Sean of the Thread]

Fuck you wizards.!!!. if you guys cry enough not only will they nerf sorcs more they'll prolly add 720 to your circle as well!

Fukers.

[Kitsun]

Just posted by Nilven...



It would help against cman-type MAs (sweep, tackle etc.) and spell-type MAs (spike thorn etc.).

Nilven




>For those who are gushing over this spell, how is it that you feel so strongly about a spell that gives us something we don't need, DS? Perhaps I am not properly conceptualizing the spell. A 1 in 10 chance to turn back time might actually fire once a training for me.<

Therein lies the problem. High level wizards only get hit a very rare amount of times. Therefore, a spell that negates 70% of the 10 or so times a high level wizard may get hit a training, in your example, is far too powerful. Immunity to the majority of deaths will never be approved. People that are casually talking about 40% firing as appropriate but even still somewhat lacking is in no way balanced.

Nilven

[Apathy]

What's with making what are some of the most powerful spells in certain circles basically pointless to use? I'd rather have another bolt spell than something like this that may only fire 10 or 20% of the time at best.

Are you high? Not just a little high, but on the verge of permanent insanity high.

You WANT a 40 mana bolt spell?

[Stanley Burrell]

CAN WARRIORS AT LEAST GET A NICE SHINY SPOON OR SOMETHING?

[Latrinsorm]

High level wizards only get hit a very rare amount of times.Better make a spell that only effects that then!!!!!!!!!
You WANT a 40 mana bolt spell?If it was like Death Bolt with a 2.5 DF, sure. Something that LOOKS and IS awesome should cost 40 mana. They should get rid of Meteor Swarm and put this in its place, then make an awesome attack spell for 540. Presumably wizards don't have enough mana to hunt regularly with a 40 mana bolt, but they have enough to use it a few times a hunt with AWESOME results.
CAN WARRIORS AT LEAST GET A NICE SHINY SPOON OR SOMETHING?Warriors are fine. Pures should get hardcore spells to make up for their inherent wimpiness.

[Stanley Burrell]

Warriors are fine.

If warriors are fine, THEN EMPATHS MUST BE THE INCARNATES OF ALL THE PANTHEONS PUT TOGETHER INTO ONE GIGANTIC FLUFFY MESS EXCUSE MY CAPS LOCK.

Seriously, when is the last time I was all:

>cman surge

You concentrate on opening the very fabric of the fourth dimensional window. You win GemStone.

:puzzled:

That ain't happening.

[Sean of the Thread]

I'd say empaths are pretty well off.. especially at cap.

[Apathy]

I could get down with a 40 mana attack spell, if I had no choice, but a 40 mana bolt spell is just a wretched idea. In theory, it would have to be about twice as strong as COL, which would make it so uber-funk that it would never be implemented anyways.

Regardless, I'd rather see something utility/rp fluff in the slot, move meteor swarm to 950 and make it not hit the caster, and then open 925 to an attack spell.

[Axhinde]

For 40 mana, I'd want a mass immolation spell. Though I'll admit, the thought of standing there, closing your eyes, then instantly every critter burst into flames is a bit sorcererish in appearance.

[Askip]

>High level wizards only get hit a very rare amount of times....GS4-NILVEN

This is exactly the reason I would rather see something else in the slot.

As noted previously, by the time a mage can cast the spell there is no lack of AS/DS, so most deaths are due to manuevers and those are infrequent.

Therefore I would prefer a utility-type of spell, not a 10-20% chance to ward a manuever that might not kill me anyway.

[zhelas]

For the people who don't follow the Official Boards like a hawk...

Temporal Reversion 540

Type: Defense

Duration: 10 Minutes

This spell, as proposed here, allows the wizard to turn back the hands of time when successfully attacked physically. The Temporal Reversion effect returns the wizard to the moment before the initial attack better prepared to meet a potentially powerful, incoming assault. In practical application, this means first attack will not "count" and the creature will have to take a second attack roll at the wizard. Meanwhile the wizard automatically experiences a +200 DS boost and a dramatically heightened ability to defend against critter-based maneuver attacks when encountering this second try.

The ability to shift time is always a chancy thing. The spell would only be successful based upon:

10% + (Elemental Mana Control skill/30)


There is also discussion about giving wizards with lore training a chance to add an elemental counter attack to the automatic DS boost if they shift into Temporal Reversion mode.

40 Mana for that spell to have a chance of survival, seems steep to me. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought on the Sorcerery front that Phase would eventually help Sorcerers against Manuever attacks once the new Combat Maneuvers system is implimented. Of course we don't know all the particulars but that spell is currently 4 mana. While this Wizard spell is 40.

[Kembal]

Wizards also have Mass Blurs, Strength, and Stone Skin that will help against manuevers once the manuever change rolls in (the change is mainly adding dodge into the formula). Sorcs will just get Phase, Clerics will possibly have only Prayer...and us empaths will have nothing, unless they add something to 1109.

The spell that 540 is most like is Troll's Blood's stun breaking portion, not Rally, since 540 is passive. 1125, on average, is supposed to break stuns about 25% of the time, but that's an inverse to remaining stun duration, and it can't be affected by any of our skills or stats. 540 is a flat chance, and it can be improved. Can that rate be increased a bit? Possibly, but balance is a factor.

I think 540 can use the lore-based flare idea that was mentioned (that's pretty cool) and an increase in duration, but I think this spell is going to get used more than some people are saying right now.

[Latrinsorm]

Of course we don't know all the particulars but that spell is currently 4 mana. While this Wizard spell is 40.Yeah, Spirit Defense adds DS and only costs 3 mana, Wizard Shield should cost 3 mana too, right?
us empaths will have nothingLike empaths hunt. Pfft.

[Fission]

Are you high? Not just a little high, but on the verge of permanent insanity high.

You WANT a 40 mana bolt spell?

Call me high, but having a profession-specific major attack spell that could be cast without risking a warning could be nice, too.

[Necromancer]

To the person who just said that maneuvers are infrequent at higher levels...I'm guessing you have limited, if any, experience in higher level hunting. Maneuvers become staple. There are some safety areas that you can run to as a pure, but they severely limit hunting options and can't be counted on past 80.

i.e. TAKE YOUR MANEUVER PROTECTION BEFORE THEY CHANGE THEIR MINDS

[Axhinde]

To the person who just said that maneuvers are infrequent at higher levels...I'm guessing you have limited, if any, experience in higher level hunting. Maneuvers become staple. There are some safety areas that you can run to as a pure, but they severely limit hunting options and can't be counted on past 80.

i.e. TAKE YOUR MANEUVER PROTECTION BEFORE THEY CHANGE THEIR MINDS

Actually, he's capped. Has been for some time now.

[Things2Come]

I would take the maneuver protection, if the % for it to protect wasn't shit.

10% is pathetic, 16% at 1x EMC, capped is pathetic, 20% for 2x EMC is pathetic.

[Numbers]

I honestly think it sounds like an excellent spell. The 10% is a little underwhelming, for sure. I'd say make the base 20%, with EMC training capping it out at 30 or 35%.

This will essentially give wizards a "get out of death free" card 30% of the time. That's definitely not something to scoff at.

Also keep in mind that this spell is for the Major Elemental circle, which technically isn't a profession circle (even though only wizards have access to it), and therefore shouldn't be as incredible as a 40th level spell in a profession circle. I'm sure 940 will end up being a lot better than 540.

[Latrinsorm]

This will essentially give wizards a "get out of death free" card 30% of the time. Not really. How many times do wizards get killed by AS/DS attacks? Wizards probably get killed by maneuver attacks all the time, but we don't know how much protection this spell will offer vs. maneuver attacks. If it's +100 to CMAN defense, there's still a chance like-level squares could pop the wizard, a chance that's probably directly proportional to level.

[Stanley Burrell]

Like empaths hunt. Pfft.

That is exactly what I say to every monster in the game whenever I decide to casually my extremely hunting savvy reliant on shield training ~~**CMAN SBASH**~~ (or its even more powerful component, CMAN SCHARGE ) the next time my warrior refrains to bone shatter a griffin to bits.

Just [i]saying how awesome rogues and warriors are because of their PvP-only-and-still-not-very-effective-against-pures-with-an-iota-of-intelligence CMANs doesn't actually make them out to be the Latrinsorm-proclaimed prophets that they are!



Seriously, dude. If we didn’t base every single comment on the text-based MUD commonly referred to GemStone IV on actual fact checking research, but instead just decided to lash out with a shit storm of self-serving nomenclature, then not only would we resemble some sort of profitable news distribution agency within the seven continents, but we would also inherently be doing a disservice and damage to the very game we love, which motivates us to, yes, DO a little bit of closer analysis on said MUD because it may actually make us become happier to invest in a hobby we hold onto so dearly!

























































































Wait. No. It'd just make us even huger losers. My B :roll:

[Numbers]

Not really. How many times do wizards get killed by AS/DS attacks? Wizards probably get killed by maneuver attacks all the time, but we don't know how much protection this spell will offer vs. maneuver attacks. If it's +100 to CMAN defense, there's still a chance like-level squares could pop the wizard, a chance that's probably directly proportional to level.

I was referring to the maneuver defense. The +200 DS is just gravy.

I'm assuming that the defense for maneuvers would be equivalent to the boost given to DS. In other words, chances are you'd dodge the maneuver your second try (unless grossly encumbered.) And if the maneuver does hit you and you're on the ground and stunned? You'd have that +200 boost to your DS to fall back on. Unless the spell wears off after one time shift, in which case that'd suck.

But, in any case, my wizard isn't level 40, and will probably never be. But hey, if wizards wanna give up what would probably end up being the best defense spell against cheat maneuvers, go right ahead. Maybe Nilven will decide to put it in the 440 slot, in which case bards and sorcerers would have access to it, and I'm sure they'd love that.