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Fallen
04-11-2006, 08:33 PM
Something I wrote up for the Official Boards...

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I've been pondering the issue of Animate Dead duration for a time, and while scanning the gem document, did realize a possible solution. It is quite clear by reading the document that gems will play a primary role in Alchemy. However, I see no reason to wait until that particular system is released to make use of the properties of Elanthia's various gems. Nilven once mentioned the idea of gems giving added effects to our Animates. This Spell augmentation idea is along the same lines as our resident GM's musings.

Let us take a brief look at the gems mentioned to have properties relating to Sorcery ... specifically Necromancy:

Carbuncle - It is said that, if someone dies while wearing carbuncle, the gem will begin to glow with a blood-red hue if the person's ghost ever approaches. Testing such a claim is rather difficult, but carbuncle is useful in augmenting certain forms of necromantic magic.

Deathstone - The Faendryl have discovered that, if treated properly, deathstone has certain powers that can aid in the workings of necromancy or in casting curses. It is said that even those who are not sorcerers can sometimes use deathstone to ward off the undead, but it is also said that the undead may gain control over the living person through the magical channel, and attempting the feat is an inherently risky and desperate venture. It is an ill-luck stone, and it has no healing properties.

Heliodor - Properly enchanted heliodor can be used both to augment elemental spells related to air and spiritual spells related to summoning. Its true glory shines in the use of sorcerous spells, however, where it serves both as a catalyst in demonic arts and as an instrument of control in necromantic activity. Regrettably, however, most of these uses result in the destruction of the gem.

Rhodocrosite - Magically, rhodocrosite assists both in spells related to the element of water and in spells related to summoning spirits. As the stone can encompass both without damage, it did not take long for the Faendryl to begin using it in sorcerous arts, where the benefit it provides is minor but noticeable.

Black Tourmalines - and black tourmalines are useful in sorcery. Tourmaline?s greatest power lies in another matter, however. It is not unknown for tourmaline to shift from one hue to another in the same crystal -- in fact, it is fairly common. These multi-hued stones carry a power all their own that is particularly potent in casting illusions and glamours. Many hedge-witches of various races will carry such a stone among their magical paraphernalia.

Other stones of interest are the Despanal, and the Emerald. The former being tied in more with demonic summoning, and while the Emerald was not mentioned specifically to aid Necromancy, it is the patron stone of Luukos. Several other stones were mentioned to aid Demonology, though for the purpose of this Spell suggestion, I left them out.

The obvious request to make is that these stones, when used with the spell of Animate Dead, DRAMATICALLY increase the duration of the spell. The higher the quality of the gem (Note: Not overall worth), the further extended the duration of the spell.

The second idea I had was the use of these gems would also increase the level of our animate AFTER it is animated. Meaning, it wouldn't affect the sorcerer's MAL when using one of these Necromancy aligned gems. The use of the stone would instead raise (or cap) the animate's level, should it be a BCS critter, once the spell has been performed.

This change would trigger a trend among playershops to stock these types of gems for those who dabble in necromancy, furthering the intended goal of creating a player created/spawned item market that was originally intended for the spell.

Thoughts, Comments, Claims of plagiarizing other sorcerer's ideas?


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Evarin and his Mis'ri

Imagine there's no heaven. It's easy if you try.

Fallen
04-11-2006, 08:50 PM
As an afterthought, instead of having the necromatic affects of these gems come into play DURING the animation, they can be utilized afterward. Casting the spell of Animate Dead while holding one of these gems refreshes the duration of the spell, strengthening the bond between sorcerer and animate. The higher valued (and more rare) gemstones giving an added bonus to the spell's duration.

Necromancer
04-12-2006, 12:24 AM
While I think it goes without saying that any tie in between gems and Animate Dead will follow the gems document, I wouldn't hold your breath on refreshing the duration of AD. I asked Nilven about it once, and he made it pretty clear he was against it.

Funny thing is, more and more I'm for it. I've got 110 necro ranks, and things at my MAL still only last two hunts with high quality gems.

Fallen
04-12-2006, 08:10 AM
As I said before, I KNOW that you have streamlined the preporation stage of this spell, but it still takes me forever to gather all these components. Further, some components are only available on one side of the Dragonspines, or another. Further, some are only available at night. Further, the best troll's blood must be harvested in the bowels of Darkstone, which is a royal pain in the ass to reach.

Further, it takes about 1 vial, two flasks, a mortar, and a pestle to begin to use this spell, and some of that crap isn't cheap. Further, it takes about two minutes of waiting around to actually make the crystals, as well as 19 mana in the prep phase. Further, you have to use 30 mana and a gem you could sell, and if it isn't worth enough, you actually LOSE OUT on duration.

On and on and on. This spell needs help.

Perhaps Nilven can keep it simple and increase the bonus garnered by using expensive gems. I am thinking along the lines of doubling, or tripling the current bonus.

Daniel
04-12-2006, 09:28 AM
that'll happen...

Necromancer
04-12-2006, 11:29 AM
Practice makes perfect Evarin. The difference between filling up one flask of blood and three in terms of time spent isn't significant. I go back to Landing to restock once every two weeks or so, and I animate CONSTANTLY.

So all you have to do is use the spell a bit to get your groove. That's the way it is for every spell.

Fallen
04-12-2006, 01:38 PM
Heh. I wouldn't claim Animate Dead is anything like ANY other spell in terms of prepwork. MAYBE Resist Nature.

Numbers
04-12-2006, 03:41 PM
I'm all for complex spells when the payoff is worth it. As I mentioned on the officials a while ago, I don't feel the payoff from AD is worth it, ONLY because of the duration. If I'm going to go out of my way to gather materials from three different places, spend the time preparing those materials, and then blow a valuable gem to get the spell running, I want it to last for a good while.

Not two hunts.

This is especially prevalent given the prep/cast nature of Singing Sword and Animal Companion (sans the loyalty gain.) Yes, Animate Dead is superior to those spells (moreso Companion than Sword,) but those are spells in the circle of semi professions. Equivalent level spells in a pure circle should be more powerful and give more bang for their buck.

Tromp
05-08-2006, 09:21 AM
What level/type of critter do you guys recommend I try animate with the following?

35 trains
20 ranks of Necromancy
Elder Bog Troll Blood used in the crystals
Uncut Diamond for gem


Ideally stuff around the Rest would be preferrable but will travel to test this out.

Fallen
05-08-2006, 01:11 PM
Anything that moves quickly and swings a Two handed weapon. Troll Chieftains, Jungle Troll Chieftains, Hisskra Chieftains, Skeletal warrior.

Tromp
05-08-2006, 02:19 PM
What a waste! I animated a krolvin warf which lasted less than 15 minutes then faded. What is up with that?

Numbers
05-08-2006, 02:23 PM
Welcome to the world of animate dead and shit durations. Now you know why so few sorcerers regularly use it.

Was it worth the diamond?

To be fair, though, the short duration most likely had a lot to do with your 20 necro ranks. If you were 1x'ed in it, you'd probably have been able to squeeze out maybe 30 minutes.

Asha
05-08-2006, 02:26 PM
Just use it to rescue people. That alone makes the spell worthwhile.
Or of course.. making them dance..

Czeska
05-08-2006, 02:44 PM
Just use it to rescue people. That alone makes the spell worthwhile.
Or of course.. making them dance..

Thanks for reminding me.

Tromp
05-08-2006, 03:17 PM
Just use it to rescue people. That alone makes the spell worthwhile.
Or of course.. making them dance..

How can they help with this?

The whole animation was so not worth the diamond for a 10 minute thrill. :wtf:

Asha
05-08-2006, 03:27 PM
I mean just use the spell to animate fallen friends (or enemies coughAaysiacough) that are the same as or below your level. That's the only I use it.
I've never used it to do anything else and I'm happy with it.

Numbers
05-08-2006, 03:39 PM
I've yet to bother animating a corpse. If you're not in a fog-restricted area, it's easier to just 130 back to town and then ask someone to come help drag.

The duration on the spell needs a lot of work. The primary function is to animate creatures. The player animation is just a side effect and should not be considered the best part of the spell. If that's the case, there's something seriously wrong with the spell.

Asha
05-08-2006, 03:43 PM
At early trains with few ranks of necro, you'll be lucky to get more out of it.
At late trains in an area where animate and demons aren't able to follow you, you'll be lucky to get more out of it.
Until I'm forced to hunt OTF becouse I can't learn from plane 5 I'll use it again to animate creatures as well as players. But yeah, ,this is why I can't use it for its prime function.
Make it refreshable. I'd appreciate that.