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Ebondale
03-22-2006, 09:25 PM
Confident, resilient, self-reliant kids grow up to be liberals; Whiny children: conservatives.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1142722231554&call_pageid=970599119419


Remember the whiny, insecure kid in nursery school, the one who always thought everyone was out to get him, and was always running to the teacher with complaints? Chances are he grew up to be a conservative.

At least, he did if he was one of 95 kids from the Berkeley area that social scientists have been tracking for the last 20 years. The confident, resilient, self-reliant kids mostly grew up to be liberals.

The study from the Journal of Research Into Personality isn't going to make the UC Berkeley professor who published it any friends on the right. Similar conclusions a few years ago from another academic saw him excoriated on right-wing blogs, and even led to a Congressional investigation into his research funding.

But the new results are worth a look. In the 1960s Jack Block and his wife and fellow professor Jeanne Block (now deceased) began tracking more than 100 nursery school kids as part of a general study of personality. The kids' personalities were rated at the time by teachers and assistants who had known them for months. There's no reason to think political bias skewed the ratings — the investigators were not looking at political orientation back then. Even if they had been, it's unlikely that 3- and 4-year-olds would have had much idea about their political leanings.

A few decades later, Block followed up with more surveys, looking again at personality, and this time at politics, too. The whiny kids tended to grow up conservative, and turned into rigid young adults who hewed closely to traditional gender roles and were uncomfortable with ambiguity.

The confident kids turned out liberal and were still hanging loose, turning into bright, non-conforming adults with wide interests. The girls were still outgoing, but the young men tended to turn a little introspective.

Block admits in his paper that liberal Berkeley is not representative of the whole country. But within his sample, he says, the results hold. He reasons that insecure kids look for the reassurance provided by tradition and authority, and find it in conservative politics. The more confident kids are eager to explore alternatives to the way things are, and find liberal politics more congenial.

In a society that values self-confidence and out-goingness, it's a mostly flattering picture for liberals. It also runs contrary to the American stereotype of wimpy liberals and strong conservatives.

Of course, if you're studying the psychology of politics, you shouldn't be surprised to get a political reaction. Similar work by John T. Jost of Stanford and colleagues in 2003 drew a political backlash. The researchers reviewed 44 years worth of studies into the psychology of conservatism, and concluded that people who are dogmatic, fearful, intolerant of ambiguity and uncertainty, and who crave order and structure are more likely to gravitate to conservatism. Critics branded it the "conservatives are crazy" study and accused the authors of a political bias.

Jost welcomed the new study, saying it lends support to his conclusions. But Jeff Greenberg, a social psychologist at the University of Arizona who was critical of Jost's study, was less impressed.

"I found it to be biased, shoddy work, poor science at best," he said of the Block study. He thinks insecure, defensive, rigid people can as easily gravitate to left-wing ideologies as right-wing ones. He suspects that in Communist China, those kinds of people would likely become fervid party members.

The results do raise some obvious questions. Are nursery school teachers in the conservative heartland cursed with classes filled with little proto-conservative whiners?

Or does an insecure little boy raised in Idaho or Alberta surrounded by conservatives turn instead to liberalism?

Or do the whiny kids grow up conservative along with the majority of their more confident peers, while only the kids with poor impulse control turn liberal?

Part of the answer is that personality is not the only factor that determines political leanings. For instance, there was a .27 correlation between being self-reliant in nursery school and being a liberal as an adult. Another way of saying it is that self-reliance predicts statistically about 7 per cent of the variance between kids who became liberal and those who became conservative. (If every self-reliant kid became a liberal and none became conservatives, it would predict 100 per cent of the variance). Seven per cent is fairly strong for social science, but it still leaves an awful lot of room for other influences, such as friends, family, education, personal experience and plain old intellect.

For conservatives whose feelings are still hurt, there is a more flattering way for them to look at the results. Even if they really did tend to be insecure complainers as kids, they might simply have recognized that the world is a scary, unfair place.

Their grown-up conclusion that the safest thing is to stick to tradition could well be the right one. As for their "rigidity," maybe that's just moral certainty.

The grown-up liberal men, on the other hand, with their introspection and recognition of complexity in the world, could be seen as self-indulgent and ineffectual.

Whether anyone's feelings are hurt or not, the work suggests that personality and emotions play a bigger role in our political leanings than we think. All of us, liberal or conservative, feel as though we've reached our political opinions by carefully weighing the evidence and exercising our best judgment. But it could be that all of that careful reasoning is just after-the-fact self-justification. What if personality forms our political outlook, with reason coming along behind, rationalizing after the fact?

It could be that whom we vote for has less to do with our judgments about tax policy or free trade or health care, and more with the personalities we've been stuck with since we were kids.

:clap:

Artha
03-22-2006, 09:40 PM
People change a lot between 4 and 24. Not that it isn't interesting (it is), but I'd be interested in seeing what variables were taken into account or if it was just a 'These two things correlate!' deal.

ElanthianSiren
03-23-2006, 11:25 AM
Nifty study (yay for liberals), but 95 is a very very very very small sample size. Typically, for something to be statistically significant in science, you need at least 1,000.

-M

Stanley Burrell
03-23-2006, 11:35 AM
Reading over some of the scientific terminology when used to describe the individuals who this study was performed on makes me think said study is just a smidgeon more than being a tad bit subjective.

...Which, I feel, should be said about this article no matter how third party-butchered or primary-referenced the aforementioned is.

Stanley Burrell.

CrystalTears
03-23-2006, 11:50 AM
I agree with Stanley. God help me. :D

Sean of the Thread
03-23-2006, 11:52 AM
Rofl ""I found it to be biased, shoddy work, poor science at best," sums it up. I honestly thought it was satire as I read it.

Stanley Burrell
03-23-2006, 12:02 PM
I agree with Stanley. God help me. :D

It is my humble belief that your A. Jolie avatars work more than helpfully enough to never have to need the assistance of any and all other inferiorly-compared dieties to ward off the evil of Stanleyism ;)

Wezas
03-23-2006, 12:02 PM
The Star is a Canadian paper I believe.

And I could probably find a majority of 95 Canadians that think Bush should be impeached.

DeV
03-23-2006, 12:46 PM
Nifty study (yay for liberals), but 95 is a very very very very small sample size. Typically, for something to be statistically significant in science, you need at least 1,000.

-MExactly. I find it highly unusual that the news source decided to publish the findings when such a sample that could be considered "minute" in certain research cirles was used. One thousand is generally considered a small sample size and anything fewer would have a much greater sampling error rate.

I do believe there is some merit to the study and its results, but I'm not sure to what extent without additional information. I've learned not to take research at face value. Even research must be researched, and often.

Here's some background info on the study: http://review.ucsc.edu/summer.97/29_years.html

Soulpieced
03-23-2006, 04:12 PM
How can they prove a positive correlation between the two anyway? Sure they may be correlated, but not a direct cause of the other.

Drew
03-23-2006, 04:46 PM
The researchers reviewed 44 years worth of studies into the psychology of conservatism, and concluded that people who are dogmatic, fearful, intolerant of ambiguity and uncertainty, and who crave order and structure are more likely to gravitate to conservatism.


People who need structure and who fear uncertainty tend towards coservatism? This makes really no sense. Liberals support social safety nets like welfare and social security, not conservatives. Conservatives are twice as likely as liberals to be entrepreneurs which has an extreme lack of a safety net. Liberals tend to be salaried workers more than conservatives. This study seems just silly.

Some Rogue
03-23-2006, 04:47 PM
And what about the people who change their views? Alot of people hold different views in their late teens/early twenties than they do once they grow up and get out in the world.

Sean of the Thread
03-23-2006, 04:52 PM
Exactly why I thought it was satire.

Not to mention I was a confident/self reliant/resiliant child?

DeV
03-23-2006, 05:04 PM
This study seems just silly.The only silly part about the study is their attempt to promote the findings as a clear representation of the personality type of inviduals coorelating directly with their political values, from youth to adulthood. The results of their research are accurate, it's safe to say, as they pertain to the small sample studied. However, it's not a complete or fair representation of liberals and conservatives worldwide.

Somerogue makes a good point. The fact is people change over time. I think its safe to say many college liberals become conservative later in life, and the reverse is also true. So many factors may go into play that I don't believe this study begins to scratch the surface, especially when the sample is conclusive to a small general area.

Apathy
03-23-2006, 05:11 PM
Correlation is a lot different than cause. If you are good with statistics, you can prove a correlation between going to church and becoming gay. All correlation means is that in one way or another two statistics share a relation.

Proving that going to church causes you to become gay is much, much more difficult.

Yay for liberals I guess.

Back
03-23-2006, 05:12 PM
The Star is a Canadian paper I believe.

And I could probably find a majority of 95 Canadians that think Bush should be impeached.

Its getting close to that here. I love how when you say "impeach" the republicans/right-wing/conservative/religious nut-jobs scream bloody murder when not less than 6 years ago they were on a holy crusade to impeach Clinton over something that had absolutely no effect on anything important.

On-topic I doubt this study also. It sounds like left-wing intellectual bullshit they can whack off to. Similar to Coulter's op-eds and the right.

Sean of the Thread
03-23-2006, 05:18 PM
Its getting close to that here. I love how when you say "impeach" the republicans/right-wing/conservative/religious nut-jobs scream bloody murder when not less than 6 years ago they were on a holy crusade to impeach Clinton over something that had absolutely no effect on anything important.

On-topic I doubt this study also. It sounds like left-wing intellectual bullshit they can whack off to. Similar to Coulter's op-eds and the right.

Morality isn't important? Ethics aren't important?

Back
03-23-2006, 05:21 PM
Morality isn't important? Ethics aren't important?

Like you wouldn't bang an intern in the Oval Office if you had a chance?

Please.

Sean of the Thread
03-23-2006, 05:41 PM
Like you wouldn't bang an intern in the Oval Office if you had a chance?

Please.

Depends on teh definition of "Bang"

No I wouldn't commit adultery.

Nor would I commit rape or sexual assault and I def wouldn't cover up ENRON.

Hulkein
03-23-2006, 05:57 PM
In all honesty, if I was the president, I think I'd be rational enough to say "You know what, sorry, I'm not doing anything with you. I have a wife at home, and I'm the fucking president."

Hell, even if I wasn't the president, I don't think I'd do that to my wife. Not in that situation yet, though.

Back
03-23-2006, 06:03 PM
We are way off-topic but the whole impeachment mentality is fucking absurd. No one died because Bill Clinton lied about getting a blow job. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people have suffered death and worse because George W. Bush lied. Its not even apples and oranges. Its like apples and rocks.

Back on topic. I think its safe to say this study is inconclusive at best.

Soulpieced
03-23-2006, 06:05 PM
My fellow Americans, I have not been entirely truthful with you. I did gigoogidy that girl. I gishmoigideed her giflavidee with my googus. And I am sorry.

Bobmuhthol
03-23-2006, 06:09 PM
I dig the study. Fuck you conservatives.

I don't like strong liberals, though. They tend to support homosexuality. :(

Drew
03-23-2006, 06:16 PM
The results of their research are accurate, it's safe to say, as they pertain to the small sample studied.



That much is true. Also in a survey I just did with a sample of 1 (myself) I've learned that 100% of conservatives are all six feet four inches tall and dislike fried okra.

Hulkein
03-23-2006, 06:25 PM
I dig the study. Fuck you conservatives.

I don't like strong liberals, though. They tend to support homosexuality. :(

I tried to do a study on whether I should care about what Bob thinks about politics...

It was inconclusive as to whether or not he even has pubes yet, so it concluded: no.

Bobmuhthol
03-23-2006, 06:27 PM
And you're a conservative.

Hulkein
03-23-2006, 06:32 PM
And you live in Boston. You're born not liking conservatives no matter what.

If we were to put down what we each believe in politics wise, judging by what I've learned about you over a couple years of posting here, we'd be a lot more similar in idealogy than you think.

Sean of the Thread
03-23-2006, 06:35 PM
Bob has some growing up to do before he is ready to participate in political conversations.

Backlash comeback to earth buddy. Stop throwing your infamous red herrings around in every thread that you get wtf pwn with logic in.

George Bush hasn't been impeached unlike your martyr Billy. You call it a lie that he made. I call it mistaken intelligence that several administrations made and it is even more likely that they were removed/destroyed/hidden before they were discovered. Where were you defending the people of the world when Israel destroyed one of Iraq's nuclear centers? At any rate you have derailed this thread (twice now because of your infamous wtf I got pwnt tactics as usual) and when you somehow manage to regain any modicum of rationality I'll return to discuss this in another thread with you.

Until then come up with some new material or stfu.