View Full Version : Smile Abuse!
mgoddess
03-17-2006, 11:19 PM
Couldn't find a thread, so I figured I'd start one...post any Smile abuse here!
Here's the one I just saw in the Small Park:
Toy smiles confidently as she flips into the air rather well. Unfortunately, she tries to do another, and another, until she ends up on her knees. Standing up, she looks around rather sheepishly.
My frickin gods woman...that's just wrong.
Praefection
03-17-2006, 11:23 PM
No offense to her but you should see when she's healing. Good god.
Necromancer
03-17-2006, 11:40 PM
There's technically nothing wrong with that use of the SMILE verb. It should have been an ACT usage ideally, but nothing in that isn't allowed. Her character very well could have done those things, and the messaging didn't tell you anything you wouldn't be able to know from simply watching.
mgoddess
03-17-2006, 11:49 PM
No offense to her but you should see when she's healing. Good god.
I have...and ugh.
mgoddess
03-17-2006, 11:50 PM
There's technically nothing wrong with that use of the SMILE verb. It should have been an ACT usage ideally, but nothing in that isn't allowed. Her character very well could have done those things, and the messaging didn't tell you anything you wouldn't be able to know from simply watching.
True enough. Still think it's ugh though. Heh.
SpunGirl
03-18-2006, 03:46 AM
Irritiating, maybe, silly, yes, but abuse, no.
-K
Olanan
03-18-2006, 05:43 AM
That shouuld be abuse, because she's doing rogue gambits with it. She does it in TC all the time.
If that isn't abuse, ....umm. It really, really should be.
Mistomeer
03-18-2006, 09:59 AM
That shouuld be abuse, because she's doing rogue gambits with it. She does it in TC all the time.
If that isn't abuse, ....umm. It really, really should be.
Agreed, it is abuse.
It would be like using smile to do sorc illusions or using smile to do some of the race specific verbs.
Aaysia
03-18-2006, 10:02 AM
The only person I can remember that I thought was abusing the smile thing was that creepy chick that was obsessed with her hair and would smile at you lopsided....
*shudder*
Think her name began with Moon. Moon-something.
CrystalTears
03-18-2006, 11:30 AM
It was Moondia, but she didn't really abuse smiles. She just kept using the same schtick over and over again. Just became annoying at times, but she didn't abuse it.
As long as it doesn't affect/influence anyone else, or give them god-like powers, I would ignore it.
Shalla
03-18-2006, 11:41 AM
I don't think it is abuse.
A non-sorcerer doing illusion IS abuse. Heck, a sorcerer doing illusion IS abuse.
I don't think it's abuse, either.
Satira
03-18-2006, 02:10 PM
It's not abuse.
Also, I don't think flipping should be an exclusive power that only rogues get. We get special messaging for the gambits we have, and she can't copy those exactly. It's just doing a flip for cryin' outloud.
I think anything that's agility or dexterity oriented and doesn't effect other players can be acted or smiled. As long as it isn't profession based magic I'm fine with it.
Olanan
03-18-2006, 03:17 PM
It's the EXACT failure messaging. And when she succeeds it's the exact flip messaging. I've seen her doing display gambits too.
She CAN, because she DOES.
Foxs was a classic smile abuser.
SpunGirl
03-18-2006, 04:00 PM
It's the EXACT failure messaging. And when she succeeds it's the exact flip messaging. I've seen her doing display gambits too.
She CAN, because she DOES.
So basically, she's using smile to demonstrate that she fails at doing rogue gambits. What's surprising about that? I think it's silly, but it's still not abuse. Abuse is doing something that could not realisitcally happen (like Sahra's flying dragon) or telling someone what they think or feel. The message quoted in the first post is neither.
-K
Shalla
03-18-2006, 04:46 PM
Abuse is doing something that could not realisitcally happen (like Sahra's flying dragon) or telling someone what they think or feel.
-K
Also, creating something that doesn't exist through act or smile. Like a sign that says "Picker Open" or someone doing illusion who isn't a sorcerer.
Snapp
03-18-2006, 04:47 PM
Random flying dragons ftl
I don't really like the style of the first posted smile but there's technically nothing wrong with it, it's just in poor taste.
SpunGirl
03-18-2006, 05:01 PM
Exactly, Drew.
-K
HarmNone
03-18-2006, 05:45 PM
I think that's Moondia. She's been around for a long time.
Olanan
03-18-2006, 09:31 PM
No, I've seen her actually doing them without failing.
I've watched her do display person several times in TC.
Sean of the Thread
03-18-2006, 10:36 PM
Not sure if this constitutes abuse or just damned good roleplay.
Xyelin smiles as he sticks his dark elven nutsack dripping with buttery smegma into Teeoncy's dick sucker while she sleeps soundly on the dais.
Olanan
03-18-2006, 11:27 PM
He is the only one who is "special" enough to think of that.
He is the only one who is "special" enough to think of that.
Are you insane. That's proper GS RP.
:: Dons clown shoes :: ~ something I've used far too much since I've been cybering like fuck recently.
Mistomeer
03-19-2006, 07:51 AM
So basically, she's using smile to demonstrate that she fails at doing rogue gambits. What's surprising about that? I think it's silly, but it's still not abuse. Abuse is doing something that could not realisitcally happen (like Sahra's flying dragon) or telling someone what they think or feel. The message quoted in the first post is neither.
-K
I disagree. If anyone outside of the Rogue guild was intended to be able to fail the Rogue gambits, then it would be a verb for everyone. Tackle is the perfect example. Everyone has access to the tackle verb, but only warriors can do it successfully.
It would be different if she made up her own messaging rather than ripping off the messaging from rogue gambits. Either way, she's obviously retarded.
Jolena
03-19-2006, 12:12 PM
I have to disagree with it being abuse. There is no reason whatsoever that someone can't try to do a flip, suceed or fail. If it is a copycat of gambits, and damnit I should know if it is but I don't cause I'm tired, then it's in poor taste and I would agree she needs to make up her own version. However, that doesn't make it abuse or impossible at all. If someone who is not a sorcerer was doing sorcerery illusions, that would be abuse in my mind because those illusions are a product of sorcerer magic. A flip is just a flip.
If it annoys you, that's a different story. But abuse? No. Impossible? Absolutely not. Anyone can try to flip technically.
Perhaps if people were to politely whisper to her OOC about this and suggest that she not copy gambits messaging and instead use her own creativeness, it would have a good result.
Alfster
03-19-2006, 01:59 PM
lacking in originality
stupid in general
I don't consider this abuse. I wouldn't care if I saw it in game once but more than that would be annoying as hell.
Olanan
03-19-2006, 05:26 PM
No, I tried whispering several times. She doesn't listen. She's ripping straight off the messaging, which is exclusive to rogues.
Maybe I'm just sore because I'm just about to finish gambits after three months. Abuse or not, it's really annoying. And with display person she was making others react to her throwing things.
Mistomeer
03-19-2006, 10:40 PM
But abuse? No. Impossible? Absolutely not. Anyone can try to flip technically.
It's along the same lines as this: Mistomeer smiles as he reaches into your pockets...
Can anyone steal in the game? Sure.
Just because it's physically possible doesn't mean ripping off IG messaging and inserting into a SMILE is acceptable or not abusive.
It's really a dumb debate to have since we all agree that it's stupid.
Toy is near Rocksand status with regards to stupidity.
Goldenranger
03-19-2006, 11:03 PM
It's along the same lines as this: Mistomeer smiles as he reaches into your pockets...
Can anyone steal in the game? Sure.
Just because it's physically possible doesn't mean ripping off IG messaging and inserting into a SMILE is acceptable or not abusive.
It's really a dumb debate to have since we all agree that it's stupid.
Toy is near Rocksand status with regards to stupidity.
Bad analogy at least regarding the flips, regarding the gambit where you throw an object and someone reacts I think its a fairly good analogy. I don't think having someone use smile to flip is stupid/OOG/ridiculous in any way except for its mirroring the exact messaging used by gambits which is just uncreative. People can flip, do multiple tumbles etc. regardless of their profession. Just because the mechanic is available to rogues with the RG verb doesn't mean the rest of the characters in Elanthia have had all knowledge or physical prowess regarding flips/tumbles/cartwheels strickent from possibility.
Mistomeer
03-19-2006, 11:10 PM
Just because the mechanic is available to rogues with the RG verb doesn't mean the rest of the characters in Elanthia have had all knowledge or physical prowess regarding flips/tumbles/cartwheels strickent from possibility.
It does actually. Since it's RG, it means it requires that your character be trained from a Rogue Guild Master, thus abuse. If it was meant for the general populus to have the ability then it would a be verb available to everyone. I think taking verbs that are guild specific, profession specific or race specific, and copying them word for word using smile is abuse.
I think we can just agree to disagree on the abuse part, honestly.
Goldenranger
03-19-2006, 11:49 PM
It does actually. Since it's RG, it means it requires that your character be trained from a Rogue Guild Master, thus abuse. If it was meant for the general populus to have the ability then it would a be verb available to everyone. I think taking verbs that are guild specific, profession specific or race specific, and copying them word for word using smile is abuse.
I think we can just agree to disagree on the abuse part, honestly.
Definitely cool, agreeing to disagree regarding using the exact language of the RG verb but...
From sitting:
Goldenranger smiles as he kneels, then performs a somersault on the grassy hill, he then crawls back to where he was originally seated.
or
Goldenranger smiles as he sprints a few feet, leaps off the ground and performs a tightly curled flip, finishing by landing on his feet. VERB:Wobble. VERB:Fall.
Are those bad?
Okay so enough people sent me this link that I finally decided to come see what the buzz was about. I really appreciate the supportive comments and constructive criticism of several people here whose opinions I hold in high regard. To the strangers and anonymous people who seem really bothered by me (or my character) but don't say anything to her (or my) face---not so much. At any rate I thought I would post my personal feelings and experience here so people who are speculating can have more to go on.
No, I tried whispering several times. She doesn't listen. She's ripping straight off the messaging, which is exclusive to rogues..
Actually, Vant(it has to be you, since you are the only person who has ever voiced displeasure with this to me--which I do actually appreciate because it made me think and improve), you whispered several things to me, but it was all one time, and the way you complained to me that day was so whiny I wanted to dismiss it. However, I didn't dismiss it. I was actually concerned. If you will recall I tried to discuss it with you in order to find out exactly what about Toy trying to tumble was bothersome or offensive to you. I apologized and told you it was not my intention to belittle your efforts or insult your work, that I admired it and was trying to do it justice.
After that day I spent about a week or so asking in chats and OOC whispering to all the rogues I ran into asking if they thought it was unreasonable or in any way offensive for Toy to learn tumbling. Everyone I spoke to said they thought it was perfectly reasonable. I asked a few GM friends to look over some of my messaging to be sure it wasn't abuse. They said definitely not abuse, that what I was doing was physically possible and probable.
You said it "wasn't fair" that Toy should be able to do flips because you worked hard for a couple months to learn. Toy works hard at this also, and has been working on it for over a year. She has several rogue guild members that give her regular lessons. She practices all the time. I spent a lot of time making up macros for the failures as well as the successes. Yes I have a few that are just copies of failures, but my successes are all original now. I am still working on adding new ones, but as Toy gets better at it I write more successful or "near miss" messaging and haven't really redone all the old failures.
Since reading this and hearing that there are other people who are bothered by the copied messages, I have decided to go through them and weed out any of the old copied ones. At the time I started doing this it made sense to copy the failures, since Toy was being taught by gambit experts. I would have her see the move demonstrated several times before I would let her try to do it, and it took her nearly a year to do a single flip or even cartwheel. I had her doing somersaults and handstands for over six months mixed in with failed cartwheels. She still rarely succeeds in the more acrobatic tricks.
I heard your complaint about the tossing her wand at someone and I immediately deleted that macro, because I agreed with you (this was what, two months ago?). I had only used it a couple of times and only on my friends because I wouldn't want to force a stranger to react, but you are totally correct--that one was wrong, and that's why I stopped it. I disagree with you about only rogues being allowed or physically able to jump, flip, cartwheel etc... I think an elf should be FAR MORE likely to succeed as an acrobat than a dwarf or giant, regardless of profession.
Maybe I'm just sore because I'm just about to finish gambits after three months.Exactly my point. Without the bitterness your complaints would have been even more well-received in the first place.
Just because the mechanic is available to rogues with the RG verb doesn't mean the rest of the characters in Elanthia have had all knowledge or physical prowess regarding flips/tumbles/cartwheels strickent from possibility.
It does actually. Since it's RG, it means it requires that your character be trained from a Rogue Guild Master, thus abuse...
I disagree, but since I don't want to upset anyone, I have considered that. I didn't just have Toy wake up an acrobat one day. I had her look for skilled people willing to train her. Since Toy's teachers are either guild masters or at least guild members who have mastered these moves, she is complying with your requirement.
I honestly do like to hear constructive criticism, always. If you have any, please feel free to OOC whisper to me in the game or send it directly to me (rupa@play) so I will actually see it since I won't be back to follow this thread. I don't visit these boards unless someone sends me a link that they think I might be interested in. I make up for it by being terribly long-winded on the rare occasion that I do finally get around to a post.
Thanks again for the concern, interest and attention. It really does help.
SpunGirl
03-20-2006, 01:55 PM
Good post, Rupa.
Maybe a good question (and I don't know the answer, never having played a rogue) is what is the BENEFIT of a rogue who has finished RG being able to do acrobatics? Does it give some special ability, like a sorcerer who has mastered illusion? Is it beneficial to anyone else, like an empath who can take wounds from others?
I think it's kind of cute that Toy RP'd the idea of learning how to tumble. It's unusual, and unless there is something special about tumbling as far as a mechanical bonus, it's not out of the question. Now, I could RP that Naessi wanted to learn how to raise bodies, but try as she might, she would never be able to DO it because the mechanics do not support a sorcerer knowing that kind of magic. And if I were to use a SMILE or an ACT to raise a dead body, it would be abuse and it would also be retarded because they would still be dead.
I really don't see what the BFD is with Toy flipping around someplace. If it annoys you, have your char tell her to stop flailing around like a madwoman and leave it at that. Or tell her that her skirt flew up over her head and you saw her knickers.
-K
Wezas
03-20-2006, 02:06 PM
act smiles and gives you 1000000 silvers which you quickly pocket.
act smiles and gives you 1000000 silvers which you quickly pocket.
Smile and gives you 1000000 silvers which you quickly pocket.
Would look more convincing.
Wezas
03-20-2006, 02:18 PM
Yeah, that's what it was. Been a while since I've been that much of an ass.
In Gemstone.
CrystalTears
03-20-2006, 02:19 PM
No cause then it would say...
Wezas smile and gives you 100000 silvers which you quickly pocket.
You need the S after the smile.
And.. I always hated that smile act. Right up there with the character named Merry who every year would do...
Merry Christmas
No it would add an S on the end of smile.
CrystalTears
03-20-2006, 02:30 PM
Go try it in the game then.
Jolena
03-20-2006, 02:31 PM
when you type smile and waves at you
it automatically adds the s to the end.
Nevermind is correct.
CrystalTears
03-20-2006, 02:32 PM
Ah I thought he meant with the act. Nevermind, Nevermind. Ugh. You really need to change your name. :P
Alfster
03-20-2006, 02:33 PM
edited because i'm the nicest prick ever
You really need to change your name. :P
If you give me the rights to Angelina avatars you have a deal. :whistle:
Amaron
03-20-2006, 03:14 PM
The tumbling and flipping skills the rogue gets are really just fluff but the skills that come after in gambits are important..
Like being able to take things from hiding and pocket things secretly and in hideing.. Any pick pocket should have them...
But at the same time it is a skill we work hard to master and thanks Toy for changing some of your smile and act messages.
sighs looking at her 20 ranks yet to go.
mgoddess
03-20-2006, 03:24 PM
Rupa's Post
Thank you very much for replying to this thread. Now that I know the background to Toy's flipping and flailing with the Smile verb...it makes more sense. I'm glad to know that she does train with her rogue friends instead of just doing these out of the blue with no training at all. (I'm also glad to know that you aren't ripping off the messages from the Gambit's messaging.)
I still think it should be an ACT instead of used with SMILE...but that's just me. :)
CrystalTears
03-20-2006, 03:40 PM
If you (whomever was confused about it or whispered or whatever) wanted her background or motivation for what she was doing, why not just ask her in the game? She probably would have told you she was training.
Someone shouldn't have to go to the boards to explain their character, something that should come out during play anyway.
I'm also glad that she took the advice, good or bad, constructively and didn't go immediately on the defensive and insult everyone.
A mature response... rupa you're going to cause the PC apocalypse. :D
Latrinsorm
03-20-2006, 04:14 PM
is what is the BENEFIT of a rogue who has finished RG being able to do acrobatics?Tumble lets people get out of CMAN Crowd Press.
More generally, it's hard to argue with Mistomeer's position: "If anyone outside of the Rogue guild was intended to be able to fail the Rogue gambits, then it would be a verb for everyone." with the reference to tackle. I don't see any reason Toy's player couldn't go campaign to make it so that gambits were more like tackle, specifically the acrobatics ones, but that's different. It's just better to keep the Rogue-specific messaging out of the acts/smiles entirely.
Wezas
03-20-2006, 04:25 PM
At first I thought this thread was about Latrin's use of too many smilies in IMing. Hence the reason he is blocked.
Wow, twelve hours later and I am back already! Actually for the past couple hours since I got home I've been lurking around the various folders, and I really like what I see. I am impressed at how it seems everything was moved over here from the old system. Respect to whoever was responsible for that tedious task. So back on topic!
I really don't see what the BFD is with Toy flipping around someplace. If it annoys you, have your char tell her to stop flailing around like a madwoman and leave it at that. Or tell her that her skirt flew up over her head and you saw her knickers.-K
Actually, one of her trainers did tell her a while ago that she shouldn't tumble in a skirt. Problem solved:
She is in good shape.
She is wearing a luminescent fire opal bindi, a short black velvet coat, a tiny gizmo, a flexible silk tumbler's suit, a small concoctions case, and some kidskin tumbling boots.
*Made of fine textured flexible silk, the costume is stitched to cover torso, arms, and legs comfortably, allowing complete freedom of movement. Thin lacing runs up both sides to ensure a perfect fit. No extra adornments or embellishments clutter the smooth sleek lines of the garment.
Maybe I should post that in "What are you wearing" but, oh well.
I still think it should be an ACT instead of used with SMILE...but that's just me.
I've also taken the advice of mgoddess and changed more of my smiles to ACT commands, where it seemed logical. Not all of them, but quite a few (I have over 30 different macros for this). I have a few macros I don't use anymore because I can't remember if they were my wording or not. It's been so long since I made them, I could really use someone's help who knows all the failures, since googling rogue gambits only brings up sites with the success messaging listed and my trainers are all beyond failing (even when encumbered--tried that).
The reason I don't change ALL of them to ACTs is this: I really picture a lot of her acrobatics to be very showy and staged, like the girls on TV, where they start each move with this huge exagerated cheesy smile, so something like this seems about right:
Toy smiles brightly and flips backward, but a bit too fast. Losing all control midway through the flip, Toy plummets down to have her face and shoulder meet the ground with a thud.
It makes me do a little "geh-hink!" (tiny burst of laughter, stopped as it becomes audible) when I picture it. That for me is the bottom line. I play this game to have fun. This silliness is why I have a character like Toy, to make me (and hopefully others) laugh. I certainly don't want to upset anyone, and for the most part I think I do a decent job of making others laugh and enjoy being around her. Of course there will always be those people who look for reasons to bash others or hate, but reasonable people have given me some reasonable concerns here, which I have gladly taken to heart. I will continue to listen to you in the future, even if it means I have to sift through a few pointless posts to find the good stuff. It's worth it.
... rupa you're going to cause the PC apocalypse. PC Apocalypse, you say? Bring it on! Or, as [OOC]-Toy says, "Be effing nice! Effity effing effers!"
HarmNone
03-21-2006, 06:51 AM
>>Wow, twelve hours later and I am back already! Actually for the past couple hours since I got home I've been lurking around the various folders, and I really like what I see. I am impressed at how it seems everything was moved over here from the old system. Respect to whoever was responsible for that tedious task.<<
That would be our beloved Kranar, Rupa. Off-topic or not, I think he deserves credit for a difficult job well done. :)
Mighty Nikkisaurus
04-02-2006, 07:23 PM
I don't think that's really smile abuse, even if it annoys you. She's not doing weird magic or telling you how you feel or anything.. just doing flips. Even if flips are a rogue skill or some such, it's not really realistic to think that only a rogue COULD do a flip. It's something more physical and easily learned, not an arcane magic form.
Just my two cents. :D
Bobmuhthol
04-02-2006, 07:41 PM
Repeating past information was totally worthy of the bump, no matter how small.
Mighty Nikkisaurus
04-05-2006, 05:59 PM
I tend to not be very good at the reading of old post dates before posting on a subject, heh!
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.