Simu-Melissa Resigns

[crazymage]

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=13&topic=10&message=1145

[Wezas]

Anyone throw up a breif summary for those who can't click on game sites from work?

[crazymage]

Simutronics has been my life for about 15 years. It has been my hobby, my home, my employer. It has defined me as a person ? inspired my loves and passions, honed my talents, and taught most of my skills. Through Simutronics, I have met almost all of the people that I love, admire, trust, and respect.

I started playing Simutronics games when I was 16 years old. Back then very few people had experienced online multiplayer games, and they certainly were not in the news as they are today. I remember the first time I saw another person move (in text) across my screen. I was in awe with the realization that this was a real person, in some other state, and that we had been brought together in a virtual world. I was instantly hooked on GemStone III.

I am shy to admit that playing GemStone helped me to grow as a person, and it certainly defined me. It set the stage for a lifetime love of gaming and roleplaying. It provided me with a great social support structure during my awkward post-adolescent years, and difficult years of my early twenties. It taught me some fundamental skills that helped me succeed in my early career; mostly notably, typing, language and communication.

Through GemStone, I was exposed to the whole concept of online communities. I found that I had particular passion for building and enriching networks of friendships online. Somehow, I felt I was giving back for all the support that I had been given over the years by extending a hand to new people. When I was hired as a GameMaster to help build Simutronics? new game, DragonRealms, it was this love of communities that inspired me to conceptualize the Mentor Society.

A couple years later, after I had been hired to work in house as a production assistant, it was this love of communities that earned me a promotion to Online Community Manager. And it was that skill with working with people that grew into a love of managing teams.

I?ve now worked as an employee of Simutronics for almost nine years. In that time I?ve earned a reputation for being a hard worker (it really is a 24/7 job) ? but I?ve never felt that was necessarily a positive reflection on myself as a person. It?s easy to work hard when you love what you do and you love the people you work for and with. When your job is your greatest joy, and your peers and customers are family, you can?t help but do well.

I guess it was a year ago when a first noticed something changing deep in my soul. Those of you who attended the last SimuCon may have noticed I had a certain preoccupation with the fact that I?d recently turned thirty. I had started to feel that I had buried myself in the comfort of my work and old friends, and somewhere I was missing something important. I wanted to start a family.

The problem is that the nature of my work with Simutronics and the fact that I?m the primary breadwinner in my house make starting a family in my current circumstances impossible. My job has consumed most of my daily life for years and starting a family requires more than just a passing acquaintance with my husband. Ahem. ;)

The most difficult thing I?ve ever had to do is come to terms with the fact that I can?t have my cake and eat it to. Saying good-bye to my beloved projects and to my customers, mentors, hosts, GameMasters, Seniors, peers and bosses is heartbreaking. Simutronics means everything to me, but I must now set it aside to work towards new dreams. And so, I wish Simutronics, GemStone IV and Hero?s Journey a fond farewell and best wishes for a brilliant future. I only hope that I do not need to say good-bye to you all as my friends.

My personal email address is drathdir@gmail.com. My AIM remains Llearyn. Please keep in touch, my friends. I will miss you all.

(Note: I am no longer on the mailing lists, so please send any responses to my personal address. <hugs>)

[RichardCranium]

It taught me some fundamental skills that helped me succeed in my early career; mostly notably, typing, language and communication.

Oh, really?

[Young Hove]

I am going to try to not be an asshole...

But hopefully, now that Melissa is not in charge of GS anymore. Some shit can change for the better? I met her once in person, and she's very nice, but nice doesnt mean you can run a business successfully. I don't know if it was her holding it back from growing as a game should, but since she was the product manager the responsibility is ultimately hers. Maybe now that she's gone, we can look forward to...

Better customer service
changes actually being implemented
and the list goes on and on about how GS could've been improved but simply wasn't because of (almost) blatant negligence, and that's why it's player base is in such a decline.

But hey, we're talking about Simutronics. Before anyone tries to flame me and say "Go play another game if you want to whine". I will say this: I like Gemstone, and it is my belief that the community of players and interactions is what makes it fun and worth playing over other obviously far technically superior MMORPGs. So put a sock in it.

[crazymage]

I wish her the best in her future plans of a family, but it is probably best for simutronics as a whole.

[TheRoseLady]

You can only be as good as those above you allow you to be. I doubt working for David is a picnic.

I think that Simu offers some of the best customer service that I have experienced. I have always received excellent treatment when I had to call St. Louis for something, and in the recent years I have had great success with the hosts and GMs. Feedback replaced a bag of my stuff (Nalea gowns in there and other valuable items) because of their policy to assist long term customers who have been loyal. It was a one time thing but that experience and the fact that they value me has made an extremely positive impression. It was my fault that the items were lost.

There's always room for improvement, but I think they do a damn good job with CS.

I hope that Melissa enjoys her new life and that she gets that family started.

[Czeska]

Having chatted with her a few times at Simucon, she was always more than pleasant. And leaving to start a family is a damn fine reason.

[Kelcie]

I think that Simu offers some of the best customer service that I have experienced. I have always received excellent treatment when I had to call St. Louis for something, and in the recent years I have had great success with the hosts and GMs.


I can echo this. I've never really seen why there are so many customer service complaints toward Simu. I guess that in any business you can't make everyone happy but I've always had good experiences with anyone I've ever dealt with. I've found staff more than willing to do what they can to help in any given situation. I will add to this though that I rarely if ever cause any kind of problem above killing the occasional idiot that provokes me, and I might assist 3-4 times a year tops.

[Snapp]

Wow. I wish her the best, but I do have to agree with Young Hove & crazymage. I think it will probably be for the better (depending on who replaces her) for GS.

[Augie]

I believe her reason is perfectly fine for wanting to leave and totally understandable. Best of luck to her.

Hopefully the new person can come on in and jump feet first into the pool and get things changed for the better.

[Ardwen]

All in all theres lots of pros and cons to Melissa's tenure in charge of Gemstone. More positive changes happened with her in charge then at any other time. And lots of negative changes happened too, all in all I think Gemstone is a far better game for her having been here, but there is certainly room for improvement.

Ardwen

[Numbers]

Sweet Jesus, I just hope Warden doesn't get her job.

[DeV]

I agree with alot of YoungHove's points as well. I wish Melissa the best of luck with everything.

I think alot of the customer services issues surround the lack luster in game support in dealing with issues such as adhering to policy right down to the inconsistency commonly displayed when dealing with high maintenance characters.

[Sean of the Thread]

I agree with alot of YoungHove's points as well. I wish Melissa the best of luck with everything.

I think alot of the customer services issues surround the lack luster in game support in dealing with issues such as adhering to policy right down to the inconsistency commonly displayed when dealing with high maintenance characters.

They would cut their revenue in half if they clamped down on high maintenance characters.

[Daniel]

Sweet Jesus, I just hope Warden doesn't get her job.

Damn you stole my thunder. I was gonna try and scare people, but this is probably what is gonna happen. Unless they give it to someone like Khaladon. I wonder if they select a new PM like they do the pope.

Dan brown anyone?

[Latrinsorm]

Best wishes to Melissa, no doubt. I thought she did a pretty good job, too.

That said, I'm seriously going to cry if they put Khaladon in charge.

[Stanley Burrell]

She has that vampiric anemia-style hotness to her which makes me ponder how it took this long for her to start squeezing out teh babies.

Hopefully, said vampiric anemia-style hotness won't be deterred too heavily by baby squeezing :(

I also think (thought?) her GM Kudos was pretty nifty and helped add to the community.

Stanley Burrell.

[Stanley Burrell]

That said, I'm seriously going to cry if they put Khaladon in charge.

From a non-bandwagon standpoint, why exactly?

Stanley Burrell.

[Bobmuhthol]

I think my response to this is what RichardCranium was aiming at:

She sucks at constructing sentences. :(

[Back]

Having returned to play GSIV recently I find the game much more dynamic, the world more fleshed out, and many things that were unfinished when I left, now finished. Looking at it purely from that perspective I feel that the Melissa years were very productive in a positive way.

Now, having said that, I do not know the inner workings and how she may have been detrimental or made detrimental changes.

[Drew]

Sweet Jesus, I just hope Warden doesn't get her job.



All we can do is hope.

[Makkah]

Viva la Warden.

[Alfster]

People I'd like to see in charge

Wezas
Leash
Grandsome
Yipsy
Porcell

I'm sure then notes would be stealable

[TheRoseLady]

I vote for Wezas and PB. Between those two the place would never see a dull moment.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

From a purely selfish perspective I just hope it's someone who gives two shits about wizards. They are boring as shit.

In other news, I'd kind of like to see an outsider made PM, someone who actually knows about corp america.

[DCSL]

I vote for Grandsome. I think he's cute.

Otherwise... If players had a vote at all, I'd cast it for GM Kitrina, as far as GMs that have a ghost of a chance. Khaladon is fine where he is and Warden.. well, I think he's too limiting, personally. In the military, he'd make a good sargeant but not a good commander.

[Bobmuhthol]

Get Brauden to run Simutronics.

[Olanan]

Anyone but Warden and (hopefully) I'll be happy.

[HarmNone]

I wish the best of everything to Melissa, and hope that her plans for a happy family come to fruition. I believe she did her best in her position with Simutronics. Will everyone have appreciated what she did and the way she did it? Of course not. Yet, most of us realize we can't please everyone.

May the wind be ever at your back, Melissa. :)

[beef]

In other news, I'd kind of like to see an outsider made PM, someone who actually knows about corp america.Amen - GMing skills will hopefully rank a distant 2nd to business/product management/marketing skillset. Also, bringing in a 3rd party almost always helps in identifying beneficial changes thing that employees that are engulfed in the business can sometimes miss.


The problem is that the nature of my work with Simutronics and the fact that I?m the primary breadwinner in my house make starting a family in my current circumstances impossible.Maybe I'm an old fashioned type of guy, but on a side note, I'd be PISSED if my wife was telling people that she was the primary breadwinner! Get back in that kitchen!

[SayGoodbye]

God I hope they don't put Khaladon in charge.

Might have to actually cancel for good.

Also I agree with those that say the game has had alot of positive changes with Melissa in charge.

[Kuyuk]

Khaladon rox.



K.

[Daniel]

Isn't she married to Whatley or osme shit?

[Czeska]

No, she's not married to Whatley, he was engaged to GM Hunterleigh a couple years ago.

[SpunGirl]

I think she's married to another on-site GM.

I agree with what beef said about someone who knows something about running a business. From what I know, that fits Khaladon. Part of the issue is that they're still reporting to Whatley, who isn't known for his genius advertising expenditures.

-K

[Makkah]

I say bring Aephir back :)

[Medri]

Good reason and I wish her the best, but hopefully Gemstone has a turn for the better now. That's all I'll divulge on this particular topic, though...

[Latrinsorm]

From a non-bandwagon standpoint, why exactly?All he can do (related to GS) is make pretty neat items from time to time. That's fine, but no reason to make someone PM, and his other GM-ly activities leave much to be desired in my book.

[The Ponzzz]

Aephir was way too hot headed.. Great ideas, no effort though. But you coulda saw that with his dead MUD he was creating...

I would hope it is one of the Upsales GMs that make it to Product Manager... Khaladon being choice number one, but he has alot going on for him already... And I'd hate to lose him at events...

[Apathy]

Bring back Romulus.

[radamanthys]

Interesting. I'd put down plenty that it'll be one of the senior GM's. That means either Kitrina, Warden, Isten, Ozias, or Khaladon. If you had to choose one, who would ya figure?

[Young Hove]

I think it will probably be Khaladon, since he is the most visual GM to the public I would say. How about we start a betting pool?

[Daniel]

I'm guessing that first choice will go to someone onsite. Otherwise, someone will have to give u ptheir life to be PM and I doubt thats an easy sell.

[radamanthys]

That's true, It probably will have to be someone on-site.

[SpunGirl]

But who WOULDN'T want to move to fabulous St. Louis to work for fabulous Simu? I think Antavian is on-site.

-K

[Caiylania]

Didn't see that coming but I wish her the best. So she quit period or moved down the ranks? Might be hard working under people who you used to be a boss to I guess.

[StrayRogue]

Khaladon, is my bet, but he already has a pretty hectic lifestyle anyway. Personally I wouldn't ever return if he took the helm, for personal reasons. I wish her luck regardless, she wasn't the worst leader in GS history, not by far, and I think most people rag on her for the changes brought about by Warden.

[Drew]

Anyone but Warden is my stand. Six months ago I would have been for Ozias but lately I've found all his posts to be really brusque.


As far as Khaladon doing it, my understanding is that he already has a (pretty succesful) day job, right? I assume he'd have to give that up and move to be on-site? Seems like a long shot.


Whoever it turns out to be, anyone but Warden in my hope.

[Warriorbird]

Antavian would probably be good. I don't think Khaladon will accept. Sucks to be y'all even if you don't know it.

[Fallen]

Having Khaladon in charge would be bad. He puts A LOT of time into designing new things, and running little events IG. That time will be cut to pieces if he is stuck trying to actually be the head hancho.

[Sean of the Thread]

Having Khaladon in charge would be bad. He puts A LOT of time into designing new things, and running little events IG. That time will be cut to pieces if he is stuck trying to actually be the head hancho.

He already tries to be head hancho anyways doesn't he?

[Fallen]

Actually, I have no idea what Melissa actually did. Can someone give me a description of the powers afforded the position? I would assume the list is quite extensive.

[Jazuela]

Last I heard Khaladon didn't just have a good job, but he was President/Owner/whatever of the business, and it's nowhere near St. Louis so I doubt he'd even be a candidate for the position.

Owning a successful business vs. being an on-site employee halfway across the country? Uh - no.

[Fallen]

So, that being said, do you think he has time to manage another (well) on top of the one he currently has, ALONG with his current programming projects.

[CrystalTears]

I think him managing GS as well as his own business and doing what he is presently doing is way too much to ask of anyone.

Something would need to be sacrificied, and I think he's fine where he currently is.

I wish Melissa much luck in her endeavors. Perhaps now with a change of hands, changes can be made to how things were handled on general principle. I'm not complaining of the customer support because I didn't have much of a problem with it but there are other areas that she perhaps shrugged off that may need to be addressed, as I've heard way too many complaints about her decisions during her time in charge.

[Jolena]

Khaladon would be my bet, but again, like most have said, I doubt he'll take that position since it's far away from where he lives and he'd have to make an entire life change.

[Amaron]

Khaladon already posted somewhere not to count on his merchants at Anfelt because of personal reasons and not having time... I think..

That could be read either way.

J

[Latrinsorm]

But who WOULDN'T want to move to fabulous St. Louis to work for fabulous Simu?I would be PROUD to live in the Lou! (hint hint Whatley, I've already got Drew's endorsement, sort of!!)

[Some Rogue]

I already live close enough I could probably commute to work. Wonder how much they pay...

[firegirl]

my guess...

Someone we do not even know
BUBBA
David's new girlfriend.
Kitrina (but distance is an issue)
Ozias

[WonderBard]

Simu has "customer service"? Funny, I could never seem to find that department.


I am going to try to not be an asshole...

Better customer service
changes actually being implemented
and the list goes on and on about how GS could've been improved but simply wasn't because of (almost) blatant negligence, and that's why it's player base is in such a decline.

[Stanley Burrell]

Khaladon and Andraste deserve to graduate from doing what they've been doing, really, really nicely, for a long time. And a lot of the recently graduating classes of GMs could very well and should begin filling sneakers. Yo.

Stanley Burrell.

[firegirl]

another person is Elonka.

[Wezas]

I'd vote Khaladon over Andraste any day of the week.

[CrystalTears]

OMG not Andraste! Gah!

[Landrion]

Damn fine lady. Sorry to see her go.

[firegirl]

I would not want to see Andraste or Khaladon or any the LD GM's that have a full time job or career already take over. Their time is already limited, can you imagine if either of them had to take on Simu full-time. it is demanding enough as is working part-time for them.

[Drew]

another person is Elonka.



She held the position before.

[Skeeter]

now if they ousted Warden, I might think about coming back.

[firegirl]

She held the position before.


All the more reason she might come back. She is still actively involved with the company and a smart business lady.

never know..

[The Ponzzz]

Khaladon is very successful already in life, and I doubt moving is an option for him. And I believe the same thing goes for Andraste as well...

My guess it will be someone on site already or Warden...

Melissa managed projects in GS, HJ and DR(for some time I believe). Things like HSN and RSN were her things... She was the first manager to place an actual goal list...

[Aasterinian]

I vote for Grandsome. I think he's cute.

Otherwise... If players had a vote at all, I'd cast it for GM Kitrina, as far as GMs that have a ghost of a chance. Khaladon is fine where he is and Warden.. well, I think he's too limiting, personally. In the military, he'd make a good sargeant but not a good commander.Of course Kitrina would never do it because the job doesn't pay for shit. (She was approached a year or so ago about the job).

[Karasu]

Sure would be nice if Andraste would move on. Hypocritical rag she is.

SimuMelissa Good Andraste Bad

[Aaysia]

What's so bad about Andraste...? =/

I doubt Khaladon would do the job. Warden... *shudder* as someone previously mentioned, he's way too restrictive.

Ozias wouldn't be bad!

[Amaron]

Elonka is a gem.. we had the chair of our pro leave and I needed to change the website address on the play.net and couldnt without it being tied to my account..

After about 10 e-mails trying to get it together she IM'd me and we got it all set up...

Poof done and she was so nice to talk with.

J

[Amaron]

Yeah I am kinda wondering whats so bad about Andraste. She did my custom prep phrase and was wonderful to work with.

J

[Skirmisher]

No idea how Andraste is from a business boint of view but I have found her to be one of the best I encountered among the GS staff.

Khaladon might be good but only if he can keep his cool when mistakes happen unlike this past New Years eve.

[Olanan]

You guys know it'll absolutely have to be Warden, simply because we reaaally don't want that.

He has a habit of doing exactly the opposite of what we want.

[Things2Come]

You guys know it'll absolutely have to be Warden, simply because we reaaally don't want that.

He has a habit of doing exactly the opposite of what we want.


What does Warden currently do? Does he just make the final decision on things or does he actually do something? Like coding, or whatever.

[Olanan]

He currently kills anything cool and fun in the game.

[TheRoseLady]

Warden gets way more bad press than he deserves. He had to make a lot of painful decisions to get the game whipped into something that could grow over time.

I know that some of the decisions haven't been popular, and perhaps have been a bit stronger than needed, but overall I'm still playing because of the vast changes to the game.

I seriously doubt he would ever consider being a PM. He lives in a different part of the country and has a profession that I'm certain draws a much larger salary than what the PM for Simu would garner.

[SpunGirl]

I don't know why people rag on Andraste. Because she wouldn't approve your 10x Corset of Doom that you wanted for your wedding? Because her merchants are hardasses? Geez, boo frickety hoo. Because she doesn't put up with shit in the consultation lounge? Cry more.

Someone has to be there to balance out Kyalia.

-K

[Snapp]

Andraste has always been one of my favorite GMs. I never understood any of the complaints about her, but then I guess they all get their share. :shrug:

[Things2Come]

I don't know why people rag on Andraste. Because she wouldn't approve your 10x Corset of Doom that you wanted for your wedding? Because her merchants are hardasses? Geez, boo frickety hoo. Because she doesn't put up with shit in the consultation lounge? Cry more.

Someone has to be there to balance out Kyalia.

-K

I really believe Andraste cares. I like her very much.

Kyalia..

They need to fire that woman.

[TheRoseLady]

There are people who have legitimate opinions concerning many GMs. Not everyone who voices an opinion has seen the inside of a consultation lounge nor have they asked for something absurd like a corset of doom. I don't dislike her, but I don't feel the same affection for her as I do some other GMs. My gripe stems from her complete and utter obstinance concerning the pocket size of an item from a cathedral wedding.

Her personal opinion was that the item should have a very small pocket, despite the fact that I had had an identical type item made years before with a cathedral wedding on another character. Yeah yeah, I know all about that "what we did the past garbage"... however I wanted my 5 pocket item and was denied because of her personal opinion. Even going through feedback she wouldn't budge. I would NEVER have another cathedral wedding. That entire experience left a bad taste in my mouth. I still like her well enough, she has interesting merchants and seems to try and make folks happy with her merchants. I just know that she can wield her power a bit heavily at times, but overall she's a nice lady.

I think any GM that is out there doing things and is putting in a great effort will get mixed reviews. They can't please everyone all of the time. She has given a lot to Gemstone over the years, no doubt about that.

[Warriorbird]

Warden gets way more bad press than he deserves. He had to make a lot of painful decisions to get the game whipped into something that could grow over time.

As much as I like you...damn, I couldn't disagree more.

[TheRoseLady]

As much as I like you...damn, I couldn't disagree more.

I see it from the perspective that I actually like and play my professions. There were times that they were seriously broken or completely one dimensional. I'm not sure how it could have been different. What would you have done differently WB if you had been the man in charge?

[Ilvane]

I just hope that it's someone who cares about the game. That's not asking too much, is it?

Angela

[Sean]

From what I can tell Andraste either loves you or hates you. Theres no real middle ground unless she simply doesn't know you.

My personal opinion is that shes unfit to be PM of simu. But then again we don't even know if they are considering her or if she'd even want the job so I guess it's kinda moot.

[Mistomeer]

Warden gets way more bad press than he deserves. He had to make a lot of painful decisions to get the game whipped into something that could grow over time.

I know that some of the decisions haven't been popular, and perhaps have been a bit stronger than needed, but overall I'm still playing because of the vast changes to the game.


Okay, that's just bullshit. Warden gets bad press because he deserves it. Yeah, he's had to make painful decisions, but just about every one he has ever made has been at the expense of players' enjoyment.

[TheRoseLady]

Okay, that's just bullshit. Warden gets bad press because he deserves it. Yeah, he's had to make painful decisions, but just about every one he has ever made has been at the expense of players' enjoyment.

Sorry but my enjoyment has INCREASED. So while you might consider it bullshit, I don't. As I asked WB (he was considerably more tactful than you..I might add..) what would you have done differently? How would you have taken the game from the kill or be killed scenario along with a plethora of other issues that were glaring obvious and turn it into a game that actually has longevity.

So what exactly are these changes that you feel have ruined your enjoyment?

[Sean of the Thread]

Warden gets way more bad press than he deserves. He had to make a lot of painful decisions to get the game whipped into something that could grow over time.




Except it hasn't grown.. it has dwindled and is DYING. I guess he shouldn't put his "decisions" and "results" on any resumes for PM or any other job. (failure is bad on a resume fyi)

[Caramia]

Consider that the person will likely have to live on a lower-than-standard pay scale and move to St. Charles -- not even St. Louis. They'll need a car because the public transportation stinks. They'll also have to deal with the kind of bashing and snarky comments that seem to come pretty easily to folks hiding behind the safety a computer screen, which can still sting if they're even half a human being, then suffer their brown-nosing kiss-ups at SimuCon. Whoever takes on this role has to love the game and the players more than the players and the game loves them.

[StrayRogue]

Warden's changes were for the better of GS. I don't attribute his changes to why the game is in decline. I'd say that is down to an overly high price, retarded customer support, and the ever-increasing range of new and exciting MMORPGs.

Warden in many cases made the game a hundred times better. I heartily believe for every "negative change" he brought about there are at least two positive additions.

[Numbers]

Warden tries way too hard to add realism to the game. While this makes sense, and I understand the reasons for doing so, realism does NOT always equal good game design.

[Seran]

She's made some hard decision, and I for one to not begrudge her for them. Hopefully Melissa will still check in from time to time.

[Mistomeer]

Sorry but my enjoyment has INCREASED. So while you might consider it bullshit, I don't. As I asked WB (he was considerably more tactful than you..I might add..) what would you have done differently? How would you have taken the game from the kill or be killed scenario along with a plethora of other issues that were glaring obvious and turn it into a game that actually has longevity.

So what exactly are these changes that you feel have ruined your enjoyment?

It hasn't "ruined" my enjoyment. It has just lessened it. Many of the changes that have been made under Warden that I did not like were game balance changes. Many, many combat systems and spells have been nerfed under him. Ambush, crits, spike, DC, Mana Disruption, Cone, Raise Dead changes, Repel, Fog changes, etc. I agree that they may have been overpowered, but the thing was, every profession had something. Back then, bards and warriors were a bit on the short end, but the introduction of 1030 and Redux brought made up for it.

The game was slowed down drastically under Warden. Meditate and Symbol of Dreams were taken away around the same time level compression was implemented only to have the XXX added because they screwed it up. My opinion is that when the game moved faster, there was more socialzing. Now that it takes so much longer to level, people spend more time power hunting.

My feeling is that more has been taken away than has been added. How many new hunting areas have been added in the past year or so? The bowels were added, but I can't really think of any others. The reasons for many of the changes just never came to fruition. They needed to add a cap and compress levels for design reasons, but then never actually did much of the design. The ideas for shifting towards more of a true roleplaying game like the Windmill never came about. The advancement methods are still the same as they were ten years ago, minus raising really. Breakage was never implemented. It's almost like Warden laid down a roadmap and put the painful groundwork in place without actually implementing many of the benefits. I think that if they had actually followed through on their original plans, the game might have been more enjoyable, but they didn't actually follow through on many of the plans.

MMORPG's have probably hurt them to some extent, but I think they have run off at least an equal number of players as MMORPG's have lured away.

[Mistomeer]

Warden in many cases made the game a hundred times better. I heartily believe for every "negative change" he brought about there are at least two positive additions.

While that may be true in terms of numbers, I don't think the additions make up for the subtractions. I don't think that taking away Sym Dreams/Meditate is made up for with a new town and a new profession.

[StrayRogue]

In game balance terms, yes it does. They were both retarded symptons of a game that never truly was meant to go above level 20.

[Ardwen]

Both Dreams and Meditation were always meant to be short term cures to allow things that were behind the curve to catch up to the rest of things, ie meditatation was added to draw players to a weak and massively underplayed clerical profession, dreams was given to voln because it was years behind the council.

Both should have been removed years before they were.

Ardwen

[Mistomeer]

Both Dreams and Meditation were always meant to be short term cures to allow things that were behind the curve to catch up to the rest of things, ie meditatation was added to draw players to a weak and massively underplayed clerical profession, dreams was given to voln because it was years behind the council.

Both should have been removed years before they were.

Ardwen

Yes, they should have, but they weren't. So in effect what you had was characters advancing rapidly, thus expanding the end game, and using those two things to do it. Then, all of the sudden the levels of players have gone through the roof and the tools used to get there are removed at the same time that levels are compressed and a player has to spend much longer hunting the same thing. The result is that it's incredibly slow and eventually people get bored with it. Players hunt in order to train, and if it takes months of hunting the same exact things just to get one level, then the game isn't going to hold the attention of many players.

Just because removing something from the game is good in terms of game balance doesn't mean that's it's good in terms of player enjoyment. In the end, the success of the game is based on how much a person enjoys playing, not on how balanced the game is. That pretty much sums up my complaints with Warden. The game is more balanced and more realistic now than it ever was, but it's also alot less enjoyable.

[Latrinsorm]

I agree that they may have been overpoweredRepel MAY have been overpowered?
My opinion is that when the game moved faster, there was more socialzing. Now that it takes so much longer to level, people spend more time power hunting.The changes to EXP absorption unequivocably make it easier to socialize. It doesn't even really make sense that people would want to hunt more when leveling required more effort.
They needed to add a cap and compress levels for design reasons, but then never actually did much of the design.Most of the new stuff wouldn't make sense under an uncapped system though. They may not have added the stuff you expected them to add (or the stuff they said they would), but they've certainly added stuff that's contingent on a capped system. I'm all for breakage coming in though.
if it takes months of hunting the same exact things just to get one level, then the game isn't going to hold the attention of many players.Just getting through XXX will get a person 72k a month even with piss-poor absorption. Level 100 will only require a month and a half.
In the end, the success of the game is based on how much a person enjoys playing, not on how balanced the game is.Conversely, I became immensely bored with the repel cleric I had back in GSIII and quit the game around level 30. There has to be a nontrivial amount of challenge to the game to make it worth playing. Hitting ctrl-r over and over is trivial. For the people who do only want a trivial amount of challenge, there are plenty of creatures kicking around that still only require the equivalent of ctrl-r.

[Mistomeer]

Repel MAY have been overpowered?
Overpowered is relative. Was repel overpowered compared to the original implementation of DC or spike?


It doesn't even really make sense that people would want to hunt more when leveling required more effort.
Leveling requires more effort now. Crits have changed. Amount of exp needed to level has gone up. Symbol of Dreams and meditate are gone. Thus, when it was easier to level, I think there was more socializing. Maybe it's just my perception based on the decline in population, but there definitely seems to be less socializing these days.



Most of the new stuff wouldn't make sense under an uncapped system though. They may not have added the stuff you expected them to add (or the stuff they said they would), but they've certainly added stuff that's contingent on a capped system.

I agree, but they added the 160 cap how many years ago? Since then, they haven't impleneted half of the things they promised based on the cap implementation.



I'm all for breakage coming in though.Just getting through XXX will get a person 72k a month even with piss-poor absorption. Level 100 will only require a month and a half.

Most are for breakage. That was due out years ago and now I think it's scrapped. 72K/month is based on how much you play. I think it takes me about 130K or so to level so if I get 72K/month then that's a level every two months. Considering that I've been hunting the same things for the past 3 trains and will continue to hunt the same things for the next 6 trains, then at the rate of 72K/month that's about 18 months of hunting the same thing. Let's say it takes half that time for me to move on to something else. That's still 9 months of hunting the same exact thing. Everyone will run into that at some point if they keep hunting and it gets old quick.


Conversely, I became immensely bored with the repel cleric I had back in GSIII and quit the game around level 30. There has to be a nontrivial amount of challenge to the game to make it worth playing. Hitting ctrl-r over and over is trivial. For the people who do only want a trivial amount of challenge, there are plenty of creatures kicking around that still only require the equivalent of ctrl-r.
I became bored with it as well. I'm not disagreeing with you there. However, most professions, even now, hunt in very similar fashions. The difference now is that it just takes longer to move on to a new hunting ground.

[SpunGirl]

Leveling requires more effort now. Crits have changed. Amount of exp needed to level has gone up. Symbol of Dreams and meditate are gone. Thus, when it was easier to level, I think there was more socializing. Maybe it's just my perception based on the decline in population, but there definitely seems to be less socializing these days.



I definitely disagree with that. I never have issues finding someone to socialize with, whether it's with people I've known for ages or with someone I've just met. The GoL experience system makes it easier for me to hunt and get a lot of exp when it's active. This way, the people who like to be social and spend a lot of time on events can do so and still level without becoming powerhunters, and the powerhunters can still level faster than anyone else.

I think the real problem lies (and has always been) with people whose main goal is to be capped uber (insert profession) of d00m p0w3r. GS is a roleplaying game, and we've got a ton of systems in place to facilitate that. Leveling is nice, but it's secondary to what is, IMO, the main focus of the game.

-K

[Alfster]

Just because removing something from the game is good in terms of game balance doesn't mean that's it's good in terms of player enjoyment. In the end, the success of the game is based on how much a person enjoys playing, not on how balanced the game is. That pretty much sums up my complaints with Warden. The game is more balanced and more realistic now than it ever was, but it's also alot less enjoyable.

Reading what you've said, it sounds like Warden did a good job doing what he was hired to do (game balance).

What does it really matter if you don't train? My character leveled once in the last year I played because half way to cap is enough for me and hunting isn't fun.

Levels don't mean a thing, the game is much much more than that. Who cares if you progress slower? Everyone else is progressing slower as well, which is nice because you wont fall behind as fast if you take a break.

[Mistomeer]

I definitely disagree with that. I never have issues finding someone to socialize with, whether it's with people I've known for ages or with someone I've just met. The GoL experience system makes it easier for me to hunt and get a lot of exp when it's active. This way, the people who like to be social and spend a lot of time on events can do so and still level without becoming powerhunters, and the powerhunters can still level faster than anyone else.

I don't disagree that you can always find someone to socialize with. What I'm saying is that since leveling takes so much more effort now than it did, people spend more time hunting and less time socializing. I think there are alot more power hunting zombies around now than there were in the past. That's just based on my observation though.


I think the real problem lies (and has always been) with people whose main goal is to be capped uber (insert profession) of d00m p0w3r. GS is a roleplaying game, and we've got a ton of systems in place to facilitate that. Leveling is nice, but it's secondary to what is, IMO, the main focus of the game.

-K
Yes, there are alot of people whose main goal is to be the most awesomest because the game really caters to being capped or rich. There is no reward, really, for being a great roleplayer. There is no advancement in the game that isn't based on hunting. That's one of the reasons I was disappointed when the Windmill did not get released. I thought that releasing ways to advance without having to hunt would have been a great start for inducing more RP into the game. Yes, there are tools for RP, but there is still no real reward for it. I think that as the player base declined, the majority of players that left weren't the ones in it for being the awesomest capped player in the game, but the ones in it for the social/RP aspect of it. I think the constant changes made to the game played a large part in that was well as advancement becoming slower.

It would be great if the GoL had a lower base and would increase based on how much time you spend in town like with Inns and major cities in WoW.