Path to sainthood for John Paul II?

[Back]

Church probes alleged miracle (http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/MSN/world/national/2006/03/13/john-paul-sainthood-060313.html)


Officials of the Catholic Church will begin this week investigating an alleged miracle that, if proven true, could be crucial in naming John Paul II a saint.

John Paul, who died last April at the age of 84, has been credited with curing a French nun of Parkinson's disease.

Nuns in the woman's order who prayed for John Paul's intercession reported her recovery from the disease two months after the pontiff's death.

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This is why I think we are in a second dark age. Lets see some scientific evidence that this is a miracle and not some fantastical pipe-dream. Fuck, and people tell me I wear a tinfoil hat?

[Caiylania]

Yah. Reminds me of some nice people on a list I am on. Some tornadoes swept through their town and demolished home after home. They finally make it to their houses and they are still standing ... suddenly email is deluged with "God is looking out for us and so kind and merciful!"

tell that to the people whose house next door to yours and goes to the same church has matchsticks left.

Prayer cures.... well yes.... tons of people pray, and the person they are praying for happens to recover. God did it!

Ok why are they so special when thousands of say other cancer patients who are being prayed over just as hard die... Picky Gods and Saints.

[Back]

http://biblesondvd.com/

It changed my life for only $29.99.

/extreme crapitalist religious bullshit sarcasm

[Artha]

Scientific evidence for a miracle? Isn't that...not really possible?

[Czeska]

Honest question... what's the big deal about sainthood. Is it like.. the catholic equivalent of getting a posthumous medal of honor?

[Skirmisher]

Honest question... what's the big deal about sainthood. Is it like.. the catholic equivalent of getting a posthumous medal of honor?
Pretty much.

That and maybe you get mentioned at easter and/or Christmas mass.

[Czeska]

Gotcha. Not a goal I need to be concerned with. Thanks! :)

[CrystalTears]

If you people are not religious, especially not Catholic, I really don't understand WTF you care if someone is made a saint or not.

The need to bash religions all the time is getting tiring. If you don't believe in it, fine, but insulting those that do is so demeaning and unnecessary.

[Aaysia]

...

In full fucking agreement with CT.

[Czeska]

I wasn't bashing, as I said it was an honest question.

[Sean of the Thread]

Others are just as justified in voicing their opinion of religion or a religious matter as those who "believe" "it". That opinion may be offensive to some people.


I could care less if John Paul is made a saint. He is prolly going to hell with the rest of the catholics anyways.

[CrystalTears]

Well no, not really bashing, although poking fun a little. :P

And that's all fine, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, however the constant need to bash religions just got to me finally with this thread.

Making someone a saint, especially a respected and loved pope like John Paul II, affects no one but those who believe in them.


Lets see some scientific evidence that this is a miracle and not some fantastical pipe-dream.The whole point of a miracle is not being able to prove why or how it happened. Someone was cured and the pope had something to do with it, regardless of how significant the help was or not. Can't just be happy that someone was helped, have to find out why and why not others who are probably more deserving?

I guess I just don't understand why this would bother or affect anyone in any kind of negative way.

[Artha]

I don't think she was talking to you. Sainthood basically means you get to sit right up next to God in heaven.

If you're up for some reading, this (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02364b.htm) should answer all of your questions and then some.

[Daniel]

I think the whole process of sainthood on earth is rather superflous to being you know..judged my god.

[Hulkein]

This is why I think we are in a second dark age.

Again... You keep saying this, but you never elaborate. When did this second dark age begin? I can assure you there were investigations into whether someone should be a saint when Clinton was in office, and, well, for the last thousand years or so.


Lets see some scientific evidence that this is a miracle and not some fantastical pipe-dream.

Uhhh, that's what a miracle is. They happen. People are cured and doctors don't know why. You've never heard of that happening? Now, I'm not saying you have to believe it was because of God, but they do happen and aren't made up stories.

[Warriorbird]

Right...because your friend told you about this friend of his who might have...and it was REAL, man!

[Sean of the Thread]

I watched House the other night and he always knows why people are cured.

[StrayRogue]

It's incredibly dumb to attribute something unexplainable to an act of a mythical, unreal, unproven and unfounded being (God). Extremely dumb.

"Wtf! How did I go through an entire roll of toilet paper today?"
"I dunno man, it must have been an act of God".

Unexplainable does not equal miracle. It does not mean Blessed by some epic Father-figure designed to control, tax and scare the populace.

[Hulkein]

Right...because your friend told you about this friend of his who might have...and it was REAL, man!

You've never watched a show or read an article that has doctor's attesting to a patient's recovery with no scientific explanation?

I'm guessing you have, but you couldn't pass up the opportunity to attempt and mock me. You're cool, dude!


"Wtf! How did I go through an entire roll of toilet paper today?"
"I dunno man, it must have been an act of God".

That's roughly the same as cancer going into sudden unexplainable remission, or terminal illnesses going away (excuse the oxymoron)... Yeah.

[Warriorbird]

Did I ever attribute said occurence to a deity that the world and its own followers can't agree on? No. I believe in luck. I believe in chance. If God exists he surely isn't going to be focusing on curing Aunt Mathilda's rheumatism spontaneously.

[Hulkein]

I didn't say you had to attribute it to a deity......


They happen. People are cured and doctors don't know why. I'm not saying you have to believe it was because of God, but they do happen and aren't made up stories

So what you did was just use the opportunity in which I didn't say anything you disagree with to try and mock me.

I'll say it again, you're the fucking man!

[DeV]

If you people are not religious, especially not Catholic, I really don't understand WTF you care if someone is made a saint or not.Religion affects everyones life whether they are a believer or not. However, I understand the pont you're trying to get across. I don't care whether this man is made a saint or not and neither should any non-Catholic considering their belief is that everyone that goes to heaven is a saint anyway.

[CrystalTears]

How does someone being made a saint affect anyone here? I'm being serious.

[Latrinsorm]

If they were sainting Fred Phelps or something I could see people getting upset, but c'mon, JPII was a good guy. Sure he got a little senile, but it's pretty low to hold that against him.

[Daniel]

One of the better popes actually.

[DCSL]

I dunno about anyone else, but it affects me. I'm not Catholic, although I was raised in the usual Latino Roman Catholic family.

Generally the effect is a questioning, for me. A questioning of what is held to be laudable in another human being, a questioning of the nature of faith, of the expectations of those who have faith, of what exactly faith does to another person.

Sure, it doesn't affect my income or whether or not my car will run in the morning, but it has the potential to influence my opinion on certain matters. Knowledge of anything is capable of changing a person.

[Back]

How does someone being made a saint affect anyone here? I'm being serious.

Because we all live on the same planet. We seriously need to stick together if we are going to have any future. I see religion, at least in the form it is in today, as a barrier to our progress.

Religion bashing has a history as long as there has been religion. I believe there is some group who makes a study of all images, words, stories or topics from movies that could be considered anti-religious and its surprising how much of it there is that we take for granted. Constantine has quite a bit of it from recent memory.

Its amazing to me how at the peak of civilization large portions of the population of this planet still turns to fantasy for explanations.

What is the answer? I don't know. Maybe Buddha boy who mysteriously left his tree after 10 months of meditation with no food and water will show up and tell us.

[Aaysia]

I'm catholic. Not an avid practicing one, and I still need to go a long way to learning more about my religion. I respect other people's religions and I don't feel the need to pick them apart, or bash them. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion sure, that doesn't make it ok to insult what someone else believes in, or their practices.

(example) If you want to believe that the tree in your back yard is possessed by an all powerful being and wish to pray to it, as long as you aren't harming someone, go right ahead and have fun with that.

My life isn't really any different from before I read about this so I can't say it impacted me in a great way. I'm glad that Nun got cured, by whatever means whether it be divine intervention or pure coincidence.

[Artha]

We seriously need to stick together if we are going to have any future.
I would think, then, that the solution would be to overlook ineffectual differences and encourage others to do the same. Rather than try to get rid of something like religion entirely.

[Young Hove]

I am not Catholic, but I like the idea of Sainthood simply for the goal of it. Think of it like this:

If you're a little kid and you love football, you grow up dreaming of winning the super bowl and getting mvp.

If you're a little catholic boy and you love Jesus, you grow up and you dream of becoming a Saint

Gives Catholics something to work for atleast. Haha.

[Drew]

Because we all live on the same planet.



That's funny because I've always thought of you as a space cadet.

[TheEschaton]

I'm Catholic, but the man had no imagination. Okay, so he went around visiting what seemed to be every Catholic in the world, and he did quite a bit for interfaith dialogue (but without budging on the whole Christianity in general, and Catholicism specifically, is the only way to salvation bit), but other than that, what did he do besides not only toe, but bring the line closer to dogma?

Nothing in life is sure, except death. To continually speak as a man, from a pulpit claiming Absolute Truth, is ludicrous, IMHO.

Give it to Mother Theresea, she deserves it. Totally bucked the system - rejected the complex theology and theosophy, and showed all Catholics that what matters is a simple love and compassion for the most downtrodden in society.

I'd be pissed if he made it before her.

-TheE-