God save us from religious nuts

[Skirmisher]

So they are pushing for abortions to be made illegal and we know they hate same sex anything, but I did not realize the hate for gays was so strong as to hate anything to do with the US.

These psychos are going to the funerals of US soldiers killed overseas and protesting them screaming how they are going to hell at a poor family trying to bury a lost loved one.

I would insult them...but the level of disbelief and disgust they raise within me leaves me at a loss.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/po/20060222/co_po/bikergroupprotestsantigayclan


Biker group protests anti-gay clan

Larry Buhl, PlanetOut NetworkWed Feb 22, 6:40 PM ET

SUMMARY: Religious zealots who protest gay servicemembers' funerals meet counterprotests from an unexpected source -- a biker gang.

Families and friends of fallen U.S. soldiers are getting an extra helping of pain as the Rev. Fred Phelps, who made a name for himself in the '90s by protesting at the funerals of gays, recently turned to protesting soldiers' funerals.

But the reverend and his disciples, who claim God killed American soldiers because they fought for a country that embraces homosexuals, are now running up against a powerful and unexpected force -- a biker gang.

The Patriot Guard Riders are larger than the average biker group, numbering about 5,000 across more than a dozen states, according to the Associated Press. Wearing vests covered with military patches, the diverse coalition of motorcyclists has been riding across the country, sometimes hundreds of miles, to attend soldiers' funerals in an attempt to respectfully counter Phelps' anti-gay jeers.

At one funeral in Fort Campbell, Ky., Phelps' followers wrapped themselves in upside-down American flags and danced and sang songs condemning homosexuals and soldiers. Facing off against them were dozens of Patriot Guard Riders, clad in red, white, and blue, who shouted patriotic slogans to support the soldiers. Members of the community joined the Riders in the freezing rain to chant, "USA, USA."

"This is just the right thing to do," Kurt Mayer, the Riders' national spokesman, told the AP. "Whether we agree with why we're over there, these soldiers are dying to protect our freedoms."

Counterprotests, however well-intentioned, tend to further escalate the decibel levels. Kentucky is one of several states attempting to deal with disruptive funeral protesters -- specifically with Phelps in mind -- by passing bills limiting people from protesting within 300 feet of a funeral or memorial service.

An Indiana Patriot Guard spokesman told the AP that his group would only come to funerals if invited by a family.

Heidi Beirich, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project, told the PlanetOut Network that the Riders' actions are the largest organized protest against Phelps' followers to date.

"There have been tons of gay rights organizations who counterprotested Phelps, especially when he attended Matthew Shepard's funeral in supporting his killers," Beirich said. "But I have never seen a protest this large or this organized by a single group."

Beirich said that even though the bikers' goal is combating hate speech rather than explicitly supporting gay men and lesbians, their actions are pro-gay by default.

"The Patriot Guard Riders are saying that Phelps' message is vile. I think by having them protest, Phelps draws attention to the fact that there is still so much vitriol against gays and lesbians and reminds them of the threats that (LGBT people) face every day," she said.

Jeff Lutes, executive director of Soulforce, a national justice organization that combats anti-gay fundamentalism, praised the bikers for being peaceful in their protests.

"It's a great thing when multiple voices stand together against hatred," he told the PlanetOut Network. Lutes added that protesting against Phelps is easier than doing so against other anti-gay preachers, since his views are so extreme.

"What's more difficult is getting people to stand against James Dobson, who wraps his message in a pretense of being loving and kind," Lutes said. "Underneath, it's the same message of intolerance and hate."
If you'd like to know more, you can find stories related to Biker group protests anti-gay clan.

[Landrion]

Horrid.

[Jennaen]

I've seen this story before, and am just disgusted as well. How the FUCK can you protest a FUNERAL?!? I don't give a damn who you are, or what the flaming hells you believe... show some basic common courtesy to fellow human beings in their time of grief.

Freedom of speech is all well and good, but gimme a fucking break. Protesting a funeral should carry a nice disturbing the peace citation, with a hefty fine just for the sheer stupidity of the protestors.

*sighs* Ya can't tell that morons like Phelps and his followers piss me off, canya? The only reason they do dumbass shit like this is to outrage people and therefore call more (sympathetic) attention to their 'cause'. Fuck them. I have no sympathy for people that think they're so close to their god, that they can act in his/her stead in judging others. My only cheerful thought about these folks is... well, karma. Hope they have fun reaping the whirlwind.

Oh.. and I'd love to see some Gay Pride kinda marches take place near anywhere the "Reverend" Phelps chooses to share his message. On a regular basis. That would make me smile.

[Numbers]

I'm honestly surprised somebody hasn't killed Phelps yet.

[Drew]

Phelps is just best ignored by everyone and hopefully he will just go away. Or at least then we won't have to hear about this jackass anymore.

[Killer Kitten]

No matter what they call themselves, Phelps and his clan are not Christians.

[Wezas]

This fucker makes me ill.

First he protested at Mathew Shepherd's funeral
Then he protested at gay soldiers' funerals
Now he's protesting at ANY soldier's funeral because they "defend a country that embraces homosexuality"

This guy and his family (who spout off the same garbage) were semi-regulars on howard stern. Stern paraded them around basically to make fun of them, kind of like Daniel Carver (KKK person). Phelps was parading his 7 or 8 year old kids/grandkids talking about all f*****s going to hell and it made me want to strangle him with my bare hands.

And I don't think there's anyone on earth (short of Osama) I'd want to do that to.

[StrayRogue]

What a fantastic culture.

[Jolena]

I sincerely hope that some type of legislation is passed preventing protests at funerals in the future, due to this man's obvious poor choices. I am all for free speech, even when i'ts something that I don't agree with or that makes me sickened. I do believe though, that a funeral should be off limits simply out of common courtesy. Protest has its time and place. Funerals are not either.

[Nilandia]

No matter what they call themselves, Phelps and his clan are not Christians.
Agreed. Personal opinions aside, protesting a funeral for any reason is getting darned close to the ultimate in lack of common sense and courtesy. Then to say that God kills people because they support a country? Excuse me, but I'm a Christian. Let me introduce you into MY God, cause you don't know Him yet.

My own opinion on the matter... I'm as straight as they come and I don't PERSONALLY agree with homosexuality, but I'm not even close to being knowledgable or wise enough to think I can impose my own views on others. Their life, their choice. If I were there, I'd be standing with the bikers to shout down the "Reverend." Gimme a megaphone, I got a loud voice as is. ;)

Gretchen

[Shari]

If I was involved in a situation where someone was protesting like that at a funeral I was attending where I knew the deceased person, I'd beat the living shit out of them.

And yeah, I'd spend time in jail, but I'd feel a lot better.

[Hulkein]

They would die if they did that to someone in my family, no question, and it wouldn't be me to have to kill them. My mom has 7 brothers who grew up along with her in a pretty rough place to grow up.

I can't believe those morons haven't been killed yet by someone.

[Artha]

Read the wikipedia on Fred Phelps if you haven't yet. That is one CRAZY motherfucker.

[Back]

Religion is antiquated. My comment on the obvious for the day.

[Hulkein]

Backlash is just so much more enlightened than most of the world.

[Back]

Backlash is just so much more enlightened than most of the world.

Name for me one thing religion has given us to advance our species or make our lives more comfortable? Name for me one person in all of history who has affected our lives in a positive way through religion that was more significant than the man who invented the wheel?

[Latrinsorm]

Name for me one thing religion has given us to advance our species or make our lives more comfortable?Writing, faith, history, morality, philosophy.
Name for me one person in all of history who has affected our lives in a positive way through religion that was more significant than the man who invented the wheel?Both MLK and Gandhi credit Jesus with their methodology. As a technical issue, I'd say "discover" is a more appropriate term for pi, and thus the wheel.

I don't know what either of those has to do with the topic though. Do you really think Fred Phelps would be a well-adjusted, normal person if there was no religion? Shitheads devoid of pretexts are still shitheads.

[Hulkein]

Name for me one thing religion has given us to advance our species or make our lives more comfortable?

Religion has made many lives more comfortable. And no, I don't mean the people who use religion to profit, I mean those who have a peace with God. Obviously it's not going to make an athiest more comfortable, and that's your only perspective.

[Artha]

Name for me one thing religion has given us to advance our species or make our lives more comfortable?
Is this statement just part of an elaborate joke, or are you for real?

[Back]

Is this statement just part of an elaborate joke, or are you for real?

Lets get real.

In ancient times, religion may have brought some meaning to our existence when we were seeking answers, but today it has brought us more hatred and hardship than comfort.

Science, imperial proof and raw hard data are the real answers. Everything else is fantasy. You can say there is a spirit, and you can believe there is a spirit, and you can feel in your gut there is a truthiness of a spirit, but you cannot prove it, so you live in a fantasy world. Not only that, you can't even say what happens to this phantasmagorical spirit from one minute to the next with any hard evidence.


Religion has made many lives more comfortable. And no, I don't mean the people who use religion to profit, I mean those who have a peace with God. Obviously it's not going to make an athiest more comfortable, and that's your only perspective.

Religion has made people comfortable with themselves. Peace is an abstract human creation. Its not divine, obviously.


Writing, faith, history, morality, philosophy.Both MLK and Gandhi credit Jesus with their methodology. As a technical issue, I'd say "discover" is a more appropriate term for pi, and thus the wheel.

I don't know what either of those has to do with the topic though. Do you really think Fred Phelps would be a well-adjusted, normal person if there was no religion? Shitheads devoid of pretexts are still shitheads.

Writing was invented by merchants. Morality is an abstract that only applies to humans as is philosophy. History is our greatest lesson.

Jesus is not provable.

[Artha]

Lets get real.
Ok. Religion has existed almost as long as man has. To think that it hasn't contributed anything at all to advance the species or add comfort is simply ludicrous.

[Back]

Ok. Religion has existed almost as long as man has. To think that it hasn't contributed anything at all to advance the species or add comfort is simply ludicrous.

In the past it was a comfort. It was an answer to the questions we all ask. But it is pure fantasy. Again, point out what it has contributed to us now besides hatred, death, blood and gloom?

[Artha]

The Catholic Church is the reason we can still speak latin. Muslims invented Algebra. I'm not too familiar with eastern religions, but I bet a bunch of buddhists, taoists and hindus have done important things too.

[Hulkein]

Almost everything contributes to death, hate, gloom, etc. Money, technology, land...

Religion saves lives everyday, whether the people being saved by it are right or not, it still saves lives.

Every Catholic church in the country (and most in the world, I would assume) collects money at every mass. Yes, a lot of this money is used to fund the church and the priests, but a lot of it also makes its way to the less fortunate in the form of charities.

Just one small example off the top of my mind.

[Back]

The Catholic Church is the reason we can still speak latin. Muslims invented Algebra. I'm not too familiar with eastern religions, but I bet a bunch of buddhists, taoists and hindus have done important things too.

Did God invent latin? Did God invent algebra? The Bhuddists brought us Zen.

That amounts to a whole big fat load of nothing.

[Artha]

God != Religion

[Skirmisher]

Hey...take your debate on if there is a god to your own thread thanks.

[StrayRogue]

Ok. Religion has existed almost as long as man has. To think that it hasn't contributed anything at all to advance the species or add comfort is simply ludicrous.

Yeah, so has war. To think that it hasn't contributed anything at all to advance the species or society is simply ludicrous.

Doesn't make it a "good thing", however.

[Warriorbird]

Writing, faith, history, morality, philosophy.

Here I thought you liked facts.

[Caiylania]

If there was a God he would kill Phelps and others like him. Not to mention a bunch of other.... criminal types .. but I won't go there.

Point being, the man is just wrong for hurting families like that, those are soldiers who have paid the highest price already, and so are those that loved them.

[Ebondale]

Bhuddists brought us Zen.

That amounts to a whole big fat load of nothing.

I don't know if you said that to be intentionally funny or not but that is rather what the point of zen is.

[Hulkein]

Yeah, so has war. To think that it hasn't contributed anything at all to advance the species or society is simply ludicrous.

Doesn't make it a "good thing", however.

While you may hold that opinion, that isn't what Backlash said, so it's not for or against Artha's argument.

[Back]

I don't know if you said that to be intentionally funny or not but that is rather what the point of zen is.

Yes, I am quite aware and the pun was intended.

About this whole subject... well, I'll make another thread.

[Nilandia]

Editing the post. Separate thread was created, so my comments won't make a difference.

Gretchen

[xtc]

It isn't just religious types that are against abortion but pushing that aside this is a disgusting story. Phelps and his gang protesting at funerals, he is a real wack job and in my opinion doesn't represent or possess any of the qualities of Christ, as such he is no Christian.

[DeV]

It's funny how some Christians use the Bible to condemn homosexuality, yet say Phelps goes too far when he does the same thing.

Phelps is an embarassement to people who call themselves Christians not because of his actual beliefs but because of the way he actively promotes his hateful agenda. He's is extreme and despicable, but he is not alone in his "beliefs". He gives new meaning to "faith without works" cause he actually puts his money where his mouth is. According to his warped teachings he takes the bible literally; something most Christians do although they are much more selective in the process. Most of his views fit some framework of Christianity. Ultimately, he serves to make "other" Christians with similiar but distant views on homosexuality appear less offensive even though the message is similiar.

In the process of doing downright bogus and bizzare things like protesting straight soldiers funerals, under the premise that homosexuality is the cause of the war in Iraq and hence the soldiers demise, he draws criticism away from others much less offensive messages of non-acceptance. That's just the way I see it.

[Hulkein]

He takes only the Old Testament literally. I don't think any of his teachings come from the New Testament, which is supposed to be more important to Christians.

[DeV]

That doesn't make him any less of a Christian in my eyes.

[xtc]

That doesn't make him any less of a Christian in my eyes.

Those people who disregard the New Testament and only practice the Old Testament are called Jewish, not Christians. Not to cast any aspersions on Judaism, I don't think they want Mr. Phelps either.

[DeV]

Those people who disregard the New Testament and only practice the Old Testament are called Jewish, not Christians. Not to cast any aspersions on Judaism, I don't think they want Mr. Phelps either.Yes, he does quite obviously ignore the emphasis in the New testament on love and forgiveness. Similarly, many Christians who follow the teachings of the New Testament fail to uphold those attributes.

Phelps is just honest about his blind hatred and in a way he represents the true nature of the downside of extreme Christianity. He quotes the same passages from the bible that homophobes regularly spout. He is certainly not alone. He is still a waste of a human being and at least we can both agree on that.

[Medri]

I laugh my ass off whenever I hear some anti-gay prick's son or daughter is gay / lesbian.

[Apotheosis]

I laugh my ass off whenever I hear some anti-gay prick's son or daughter is gay / lesbian.


Isn't life ironic?