Essential (for any) warrior skills.

[Billy the Studly]

1x ambush (to 40) and 1x perception (at least) for life. It doesn't matter what weapon style you go with...twc, ohe/shield, blunts, two handed weapons...

And I'm not talking hiding here. I have a few ranks (22) of hiding for nonhunting purposes. I don't hide when I'm hunting. And with 40 ranks of ambush, full trained CM and (when I was) 1x perception, I miss maybe 1 outta 10? That sounds about right.

Anyway, I'll throw up my skills. I went from 1x perception to 2x because I dropped brawling for hurling (and Voln for CoL). Personally, I like hurling. I can aim my throws and now I don't have to bother with feint/feint/ambush head. I just walk in and hurl <target> head. 4 second round time, and with 5 ranks of bonding the returning feature is sweet.

Armor Use..........................| 240 140 140
Shield Use.........................| 240 140 140
Combat Maneuvers...................| 240 140 140
Edged Weapons......................| 240 140 140
Thrown Weapons.....................| 240 140 140
Ambush.............................| 140 40 40
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 130 35 35
Physical Fitness...................| 240 140 140
Dodging............................| 202 102 102
Arcane Symbols.....................| 102 24 24
Magic Item Use.....................| 130 35 35
Harness Power......................| 25 5 5
Stalking and Hiding................| 96 22 22
Perception.........................| 240 140 140
Climbing...........................| 120 30 30
Swimming...........................| 105 25 25

[Latrinsorm]

Ambush is completely, unequivocably unnecessary for OHEs.

Perception helps negate ambush pushdown, but is not at all necessary.

[Billy the Studly]

Ambush is completely, unequivocably unnecessary for OHEs.

Perception helps negate ambush pushdown, but is not at all necessary.

Heh. Keep in mind I auto aim for the head and that AM is shorthand for ambush.

This is from my last hunt.

A muscular supplicant swings a dark steel flamberge at you!
Amazingly, you manage to block the attack with your shield!
>am
You swing a black vultite handaxe at a muscular supplicant!
AS: +443 vs DS: +246 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +42 = +271
... and hit for 76 points of damage!
Mighty swing separates head from shoulders.
With an ear-piercing cry of agony, the muscular supplicant dies.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
R>

>am
You swing a black vultite handaxe at a muscular supplicant!
AS: +443 vs DS: +230 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +56 = +301
... and hit for 89 points of damage!
Wild upward slash removes the muscular supplicant's face from her skull!
Interesting way to die.
A muscular supplicant dies, falling down like a rag doll.
Roundtime: 6 sec.

It works with hurling, too.

R>hurl hiero
With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a black vultite handaxe into flight.
You throw a black vultite handaxe at an emaciated hierophant!
AS: +420 vs DS: +203 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +52 = +301
... and hit for 89 points of damage!
Wild upward slash removes the emaciated hierophant's face from her skull!
Interesting way to die.
An emaciated hierophant drops to the floor, quite dead!
The very powerful look leaves an emaciated hierophant.
The white light leaves an emaciated hierophant.
The deep blue glow leaves an emaciated hierophant.
An emaciated hierophant seems to lose an aura of confidence.
An emaciated hierophant seems to lose some dexterity.
An emaciated hierophant appears less powerful.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around an emaciated hierophant.
The vultite handaxe is lodged in an emaciated hierophant's head!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
The vultite handaxe lodged in an emaciated hierophant's head begins to twist about, trying to free itself! If quickly manages to dislodge itself and flies back to your waiting hand!

R>hurl sup neck
With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a black vultite handaxe into flight.
You throw a black vultite handaxe at a muscular supplicant!
AS: +420 vs DS: +195 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +39 = +296
... and hit for 78 points of damage!
Vertebrae in neck disintegrate from impact!
Neck sinks into shoulders.
A muscular supplicant dies, falling down like a rag doll.
Momentum carries a black vultite handaxe past a muscular supplicant to land nearby.
Roundtime: 4 sec.

Of course, it isn't necessary. I'll concede that. But it sure beats ATTACKing over and over and over, hoping for a lucky crit. I guess it's more about efficiency and viability. But from what you said, I don't reckon you'd know much about that ; )

[Stunseed]

Why are you still in the Skull Temple, if I may ask?

[Warriorbird]

Ambushing always seemed pretty pointless to me if you had an alternate attack augmenter (MO, ETC). Perception isn't a neccessity either.

[Billy the Studly]

I'm in the Skull Temple because, around Illistim, that's where people my train hunt. I started there at level 60, and it's a piece of cake. I can fry in a couple minutes.

Perception is tied directly to open ambushing. Finding anyone my level that can hide, with EASE, is nifty. So is little to no DS pushdown if I'm ever ambushed. I went from 1x to 2x perception when I picked up hurling.

Sure, I can kill ATTACKing or MSTRIKing everything I come across. But it takes longer. Why the fuck would I ever attack something when I can kill it w/ one ambush? I made this post for all the people wondering how to train their warrior. I'm telling them to make 1x perception and 1x ambush (to 40) a priority.

>feint
[Roll result: 144 (open d100: 31) Bonus: 18]
You feint to the right, the moulis buys the ruse and twists awkwardly to block the blow that never came!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
R>aim left leg
You're now aiming at the left leg of your target when using a ranged weapon, or while ambushing.
R>hurl moul
With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a black vultite handaxe into flight.
You throw a black vultite handaxe at a moulis!
AS: +435 vs DS: +238 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +30 = +259
A layer of shifting stone absorbs 13 points of damage!
... and hit for 50 points of damage!
Quick, powerful slash to the moulis's left knee!
The moulis is knocked to the ground!
The moulis is stunned!
The vultite handaxe is deflected to one side, sailing to the ground.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>aim head
You're now aiming at the head of your target when using a ranged weapon, or while ambushing.
R>
A black vultite handaxe rises from the floor and flies back to your waiting hand!
>hurl moul
With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a black vultite handaxe into flight.
You throw a black vultite handaxe at a moulis!
AS: +435 vs DS: +185 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +7 = +289
A layer of shifting stone shatters!
... and hit for 76 points of damage!
Solid strike caves the moulis's skull in, resulting in instant death!
The moulis flails wildly for a moment before going still, its appendages dropping lifelessly to the ground.
A moulis appears somehow different.
The vultite handaxe flips over, landing behind a moulis.
Roundtime: 4 sec.

R>ambush moulis head
You swing a black vultite handaxe at a moulis!
AS: +458 vs DS: +243 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +64 = +311
A layer of shifting stone shatters!
... and hit for 82 points of damage!
Solid strike caves the moulis's skull in, resulting in instant death!
The moulis flails wildly for a moment before collapsing, its appendages dropping lifelessly to the ground.
A moulis appears somehow different.
A moulis seems a bit less imposing.
Roundtime: 6 sec.

R>am sh head
You swing a black vultite handaxe at a shrickhen!
AS: +458 vs DS: +241 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +29 = +278
... and hit for 78 points of damage!
Mighty swing separates head from shoulders.
A shrickhen's arms, legs and head separate from her torso as the dissimilar parts collapse in a heap.
A shrickhen glances around, looking a bit less confident.
The bright luminescence fades from around a shrickhen.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a shrickhen.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
R>
A dhu goleras rapidly blinks her eyes as she tries to clear her thoughts.
R>am gol head
You swing a black vultite handaxe at a dhu goleras!
AS: +458 vs DS: +224 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +7 = +277
... and hit for 78 points of damage!
Mighty swing separates head from shoulders.
The dhu goleras opens her mouth wide and lets out a choked, shrill scream and her eyes cloud over to a solid milky white as she dies.
Roundtime: 6 sec.

But you're right, ambushing is pretty pointless.

[Warriorbird]

You can kill just as quickly with alternate methods...or more quickly as a pure. It's a nice skill, sure but it is far from required. With feint involved or trip involved you could probably do similar with an open swung two hander or polearm. You're also hunting a VERY easy area for warriors.

Perception only effects your aiming WHILE hiding.

Ambush is certainly a valid choice...but not the only one.

[Billy the Studly]

You can kill just as quickly with alternate methods...or more quickly as a pure. It's a nice skill, sure but it is far from required. With feint involved or trip involved you could probably do similar with an open swung two hander or polearm. You're also hunting a VERY easy area for warriors.

Perception only effects your aiming WHILE hiding.

Ambush is certainly a valid choice...but not the only one.

What area isn't easy? At level 68 (goleras being a base 78) I pwn the Tower. The Stronghold was a piece of cake, especially once I picked up hurling. I'd have to say the Stronghold was my favorite place to hunt. I've been to the rift, and if it wasn't such a pain in the ass to get to, I might hunt there. What else is there? Fire mages, on Teras? There's one place ambush was a necessity, since mages don't stun. They do crit very nicely, however.

I'm not saying ambush is the ONLY way. I'm saying it's the best. The most efficient. The fastest. It'll make any warrior (or swinger)'s life easier.

And just like perception, it's often overlooked.

[El Burro]

You only need ambush ranks if you hide and aim. Aiming from the open is determined by CM ranks. No clue about the hurling thing though...

[Billy the Studly]

I've heard that rumor, too. I did some testing with a 2x CM 0 ambush warrior and would often get the 'you fail to find an opening for your strike' message. On top of that, I missed more often when I did 'find an opening.'

[Billy the Studly]

Ambush may be used with hiding or while in the open. When used from hiding, successful strikes may be much more lethal, and an opponent's defenses may be substantially reduced. The Ambush, Stalking and Hide, and Perception skills are recommended. When used from the open, the Ambush and Combat Maneuvers skills aid in achieving success.

Taken straight from the play.net site.

[El Burro]

I have zero ambush ranks and I never fail to find an opening. I do miss on occasion but I'm swinging a maul so I chaulk it up to that and the dreaded fumble. I hit much more than I miss though. My next swing is aimed at the neck and it's rare I miss two in a row.

That said, I'm also mid 80's in training.

[Billy the Studly]

>w
[Maaghara Labyrinth]
Taking a tight bend, the tunnel twists back upon itself, heading almost in the opposite direction. Numerous grey tiles set in the soft clay floor create a mosaic depicting a strange flower growing from a mass of dead bodies. There is an unusual lack of heavy root growth surrounding the tiles. You also see a dhu goleras.
Obvious exits: east, southeast
>hurl gol head
>
With a quick flick of your wrist, you deftly send a black vultite handaxe into flight.
You throw a black vultite handaxe at a dhu goleras!
AS: +435 vs DS: +286 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +93 = +278
... and hit for 73 points of damage!
Solid strike caves the dhu goleras's skull in, resulting in instant death!
The dhu goleras opens his mouth wide and lets out a choked, shrill scream and his eyes cloud over to a solid milky white as he collapses and dies.
The vultite handaxe flips over, landing behind a dhu goleras.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
R>
A black vultite handaxe rises from the floor and flies back to your waiting hand!
>loot

That is so sexy, heh

[Stunseed]

< I'm in the Skull Temple because, around Illistim, that's where people my train hunt. I started there at level 60, and it's a piece of cake. I can fry in a couple minutes. >

Same here, but at 68, I would think the learning would be more profitable elsewhere, instead of only getting the extra from the dogmatists. Besides those clerics, you're underhunting, I spose I'm spoiled and all, but someone with your skill set shouldn't really need to.

[Billy the Studly]

i split my time between the tower and the temple now. at 68 i still get feared by shrickens. goleras are still base 10 lvls above me and have like a 100% chance of warding me every time. and i hunt alone.

[Latrinsorm]

I guess it's more about efficiency and viability. But from what you said, I don't reckon you'd know much about thatFrom what you said, I reckon you don't know much about the English language. More on this later.
So is little to no DS pushdown if I'm ever ambushed.As I noted, perception is useful in that regard. The only time that would ever be an issue for a warrior is if the ambusher also had flaring weapons. The only hunting ground I know of where this occurs is OTF.
Why the fuck would I ever attack something when I can kill it w/ one ambush?The point is that using OHEs you can aim with ease with 2x CM and 0x Ambush. As an aside, perception does not factor into aiming from the open.
I did some testing with a 2x CM 0 ambush warrior and would often get the 'you fail to find an opening for your strike' message. On top of that, I missed more often when I did 'find an opening.'That's odd, my warrior hasn't failed to find an opening in longer than I can remember, rarely misses, and is barely 2/3 your warrior's level. This is why anecdotal evidence is crap and your "research" is highly suspect.
I'm not saying ambush is the ONLY way. I'm saying it's the best. The most efficient. The fastest. It'll make any warrior (or swinger)'s life easier. I think you're confused about what the word "essential" means. Hint: none of what you just said in any way means essential. Further, even assuming everything you state in this snippet is true, Ambush ranks are still not required to reliably aim small to medium weapons (e.g. OHEs).

As an aside, it's amusing how you think crit-killing stuff in rigid-class armor is some big feat.

[Warriorbird]

Taken directly from staff....perception means nothing regarding open aiming. It's a grammar issue with the website. Mind you, it's been a while, but I'm pretty sure said staff member (who I'm sure the Rogues miss) knew what he was saying.

[Billy the Studly]

if you have a better way of doing things, plz let us see.

as an aside, you say 'as an aside' and 'as i noted' a lot.

[Latrinsorm]

Yes, once and twice are both "a lot", perhaps in an alternate universe where words have no meaning.

Here's a better way: take the TPs wasted on Ambush, get another 25 ranks in Shield or PF (or 12/13). Lose *nothing* and gain *something* (albeit not much of a something). That's better by definition.

[Billy the Studly]

heh, you went back and counted?

i said show me something. like a log ; )

[Latrinsorm]

Reason is the only evidence I need.

Your build has some amount of offensive capability, let's call it A.
If you were to drop all your ambush training, you would lose 0 offensive capability. A - 0 = A
If you were to spend those 120/140 TPs on something like Shield Use or Physical Fitness (or Dodging or MoC or...) you would gain *something*, let's call it X. X > 0

A + X > A

The end.

[Teladro]

Hell, Latrinsorm. I was trying to solve that problem for like 30 minutes. Thanks for showing your work by the way!

[Latrinsorm]

It only took one incidence of getting partial credit for jotting down my insane, circuitous ramblings leading to nowhere for me to become enamored with showing work.

p.s: yw <3

[mgoddess]

1x ambush (to 40) and 1x perception (at least) for life. It doesn't matter what weapon style you go with...twc, ohe/shield, blunts, two handed weapons...

I disagree, on the ambush. Perception is nice, but not a neccessity.

My warrioress is 40, she has absolutely NO ambush, and 1x's in Perception for purposes other then combat. She 2x's TWC, OHE, Dodging, and MOC....and she hunts just perfectly fine. No ambush needed for her..

So, your declaration that 1x ambush and 1x perception for any warrior is a neccessity is bunk (in my mind).

[FinisWolf]

Come on folks ...

He is Mr. Studly! He knows ALL. Bow down ...

"All hail Mr. Studly!" ... ... ... "NOT!"

These are some outrageous claims. Is it a viable workale plan? Sure. Is it the best or only plan? No and no.

I am really surprised that some of you are argueing with him so long, and so hard.

Finis

[holocene]

but if you do train in ambush and hunt from open....will you see your AS improve? surely there's some benefit in some ambush training?

Very imformative thread for me, by the way. Never one ever said to me: you OHE warrior, you must ambush.

[Drew2]

To my knowledge, Ambush does not improve AS in any way what-so-ever.

CM, however, does.

[FinisWolf]

You are correct Tayre.

Finis

[Billy the Studly]

I never said it'd improve your AS. Never said it was a must for 'just' OHE users. I think I said ANY training plan ... twc, ohe, ohb, 2hw. The point I was trying to make was that being able to aim for a particular part of the body, from the open, was an invaluable skill. I am under the impression that some training in the ambush skill improves your rate of success. It IS a better way to hunt, when you can ambush xxx head and kill it, rather then attacking/mstriking it over and over.

I almost never use attack or mstrike while hunting. Exclusively ambush, and most shit I kill in one swing. And unlike a pure, I'm not restricted by mana. I can do that shit all day long.

[Warriorbird]

And you can do it, most especially with an OHE...without ambush training or perception training (which doesn't even matter, once again, unless you hide).

At the point I left, I didn't "attack/mstrike over and over." It was once per creature, typically. Having betaed and alphaed, I tested a bunch of training paths over the course of the game. The same held true everywhere. I also wasn't some sort of wannabe Rogue.

[FinisWolf]

I also wasn't some sort of wannabe Rogue.

LOL

That's just funny.

LOL

Finis

[AnticorRifling]

Ambush for what you're doing is pointless. Skull temple at your lvl is a waste. What is it you're trying to prove?


I can crack skulls or break legs more often than not with a lance aiming from the open with just 1x CM.

Go to the keen.