Political Cartoon Riots

[Ebondale]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/06/cartoon.protests/t1.irandanish.01.ap.jpg

I'm going to be... blunt.

Muslims are out of their fucking minds.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/06/cartoon.protests/story.kabul.ap.jpghttp://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/06/cartoon.protests/story.glass.ap.jpg
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060203/i/r1363645636.jpg?
Theres a classy sign.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060203/i/r399679231.jpg?
Oooh! Another classy sign!

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060205/i/r1489932145.jpg?
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/nm/20060206/2006_02_05t133027_450x300_us_religion_cartoons.jpg ?

Muslims SAY that they are peaceful people. That all of this violence is the work of religious extremists. Am I the only one who cares to call bullshit on that? We have Muslims rioting all over the world in groups of thousands because of a stupid political cartoon which is honestly pretty damn accurate.

A turbin made of a bomb. I suppose they want to disprove this image of the Muslim world by burning down the Danish embassy (an act of war) and rioting all over the world. That'll get the rest of the world to think better of Muslims.

So SUPPOSEDLY the whole thing is that drawing a characature of the prophet Muhammed can lead to Idolism, or so they say.

So whats the big fucking deal?

You wouldn't see Christians, Jews, or Buddhists rioting over political cartoons or drawings. Do you know why? Because Christians, Jews, and Buddhists aren't fucking crazy -- thats why.

[Nieninque]

You are as guilty of stupid statements as they are, if you are attributing the behaviour of these fucking idiots as being that of all muslims.

Try thinking for yourself a little and realising that it is not all muslims, but a bunch of psychos that happen to be muslim.

[Ebondale]

Don't flame me, I'd really rather not get into another flame war topic, Nieninque. There are other ways to express that you disagree with me.


Try thinking for yourself a little and realising that it is not all muslims, but a bunch of psychos that happen to be muslim.

Psychos numbering in the thousands. All over the world. You know the saying -- "if the shoe fits...."

[xtc]

Another small minded, ignorant opinion.

Muslims consider the image of Mohammed to be holy, it is not to be reproduced. An image of Mohammed as a terrorist is an incredible insult and affront.

The defamed image of Mohammed was published months ago and the Muslim community in Denmark has tried to get an apology and retraction from the newspaper for months through peaceful methods. They went to the Danish Government and received no help. In Canada sit is unlikely such a cartoon could be published considering we have hate crime laws.

I don't approve of the violence or rioting, protests however are fine. I think if Christ was depicted in a similar manner some “crazy Christians” would have a lot to say on the manner. Pat Robertson has called for a fatwah on Hugo Chavez and said Sharon had a stroke because he divided God's land. A few years ago the Israel Foreign Minister called a Canadian TV show that had Victor Ostrovsky as a guest and called on all Canadian Jews to kill Ostrovsky for his betrayal of Israel, as he saw it. Members of many religions have done crazy and violent things. Bush is a born again Christian who thinks he was chosen by God to be President and how many people has he killed by starting wars in Iraq, Afghanistan?

I think the picture of Mohammed as a terrorist may have been the spark that started the fire but these people are upset about more than just the picture.

[Ebondale]

Don't tell me what is and is not ignorant until you have been shot at by angry Muslims, xtc.

Its tasteless, I agree (the cartoon). I personally wouldn't have created an image like that out of respect for them. Be that as it may -- someone DID create the image, and it sparked a whole lot of violence. I don't think that violence is the way to protest an image that depicts you as being violent. Agreed?

[Jorddyn]

Being offended by a cartoon is understandable.

Protesting a cartoon strikes me as a little silly, but ok.

Destroying embassies because a newspaper in one of the countries published a cartoon? Absolutely, positively fucking ridiculous.

Jorddyn

P.S. I should add, I've not seen the cartoon.

[Ebondale]

P.S. I should add, I've not seen the cartoon.

I've seen it. I wish I had a link to an image of it, maybe someone else has one. Basically a black & white picture of what the artist thinks Muhammad would look like and he has a black turban made out of one of those round, black bombs with a fuse coming out of the top. The kind of bomb you might see in an old cartoon.

[Warriorbird]

This is sort of like the Fred Phelps or Pat Robertson Muslims. Think of it that way.

[Ebondale]

You can actually name the bad apples among the Christian groups. It seems to me that there are just too many bad apples among the Muslim world to count. The bad ones blend in with the rest of them so perfectly that the lines between who is good and who is not are blurred. At least you can point the finger at Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson, The Ku Klux Klan, and the Aryan Brotherhood and say, "Shame on you."

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/ap/lhr10602051735.rp350x350.jpg

A peaceful Muslim burning an effigy of the Danish Prime Minister.

[Sean of the Thread]

My artwork is better off in this thread.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/Japgross/final.jpg

[xtc]

You can actually name the bad apples among the Christian groups. It seems to me that there are just too many bad apples among the Muslim world to count. The bad ones blend in with the rest of them so perfectly that the lines between who is good and who is not are blurred. At least you can point the finger at Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson, The Ku Klux Klan, and the Aryan Brotherhood and say, "Shame on you."

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/ap/lhr10602051735.rp350x350.jpg

A peaceful Muslim burning an effigy of the Danish Prime Minister.

Protest is a legitimate form of expression. I have denounced violent protest. Judaism and Christianity have killed many more people than Islam has.

There are lots of Christian wack jobs, look at the nuts who burn black churches in the south and call themselves Christians. Look at the Christian nut jobs who shoot Abortion Doctors or gay bash. Look at the IRA or the UVF or the Klan. There are more Christian terrorist than I can count. Christian terrorists in Guwahati, North India killed 44 in 2004. The National Liberation Front of Tripura (Christian Group) has killed Politicians. How about the Oklahoma City bombing? Another act of Christian terrorism.

Many Muslims consider Bush's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to be the modern crusades. Now with Iran many Muslims believe that American Christians are committing genocides and interested in the cleansing of all Muslims.

A peaceful Christian burning a UN flag.

http://www.lvrj.com/lvrj_home/1999/Oct-25-Mon-1999/photos/home.jpg

[HarmNone]

You can actually name the bad apples among the Christian groups. It seems to me that there are just too many bad apples among the Muslim world to count. The bad ones blend in with the rest of them so perfectly that the lines between who is good and who is not are blurred. At least you can point the finger at Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson, The Ku Klux Klan, and the Aryan Brotherhood and say, "Shame on you."

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/ap/lhr10602051735.rp350x350.jpg

A peaceful Muslim burning an effigy of the Danish Prime Minister.


The bad ones blend in to YOU, Ebondale. That doesn't mean that other followers of Islam don't know a radical from a non-radical. Blanket statements that intimate that all Muslims are "fucking crazy" are, by definition, faulty. There are Muslim people who are just as upset about what's happening as you are, believe me.

[Jorddyn]

Re: Peaceful burning.

Burn whatever the hell you want, so long as it belongs to you.*

Jorddyn

*I was going to leave it at this, and figured I should add - Children and spouses are NOT property for purposes of this statement.

[Ebondale]

The bad ones blend in to YOU, Ebondale. That doesn't mean that other followers of Islam don't know a radical from a non-radical. Blanket statements that intimate that all Muslims are "fucking crazy" are, by definition, faulty. There are Muslim people who are just as upset about what's happening as you are, believe me.

Have you been to Iraq? Do you know what it is like to have people watching you and not knowing if they are going to shoot at you, detonate an explosive vest beside you, or shake your hand?

You don't.

Peaceful people and insurgents blend in together. Thats all I mean by blending in, HN.

[Landrion]

Protest is a legitimate form of expression. I have denounced violent protest. Judaism and Christianity have killed many more people than Islam has.
A peaceful Christian burning a UN flag.


That is a very interesting statement. Could you provide some data on it?

I mean, Im sure you can gather some information on the crusades, but Im really curious what youre basing the statement on Judaism on.

Also, are we talking about interfaith violence only? Or would we include Shiite-Sunni violence alongside Protestant-Catholic violence.

[CrystalTears]

Have you been to Iraq? Do you know what it is like to have people watching you and not knowing if they are going to shoot at you, detonate an explosive vest beside you, or shake your hand?

You don't.

I'm sure they feel exactly the same way about you and the other Americans that are roaming around in their country.

I think their reactions are a bit overdramatic, but at the same time I can understand it. Just because we don't have a hissy fit whenever someone depicts our God in a toonish fashion (which is pretty fucking often) doesn't mean that they don't have that right to since they don't have the religious freedoms that we do. The deaths that occur, however, are over the top.

[Warriorbird]

I assume he'd be citing Israeli war efforts.

[Jorddyn]

Also, are we talking about interfaith violence only? Or would we include Shiite-Sunni violence alongside Protestant-Catholic violence.

I'm not arguing numbers, but I'd sure as hell include Protestant-Catholic violence in any discussion of violence-for-God.

Jorddyn

[Numbers]

There are Muslim people who are just as upset about what's happening as you are, believe me.

Absolutely correct.

The problem is, Muslims have a gigantic spotlight shined right in their direction at the moment, primarily because of the rampant violent actions from all the radicals. Now, I don't know if this is a problem with the press or whatnot, but whenever the radical Muslims go and do something stupid, where's the public outcry from the normal Muslims, immediately putting down the radical behavior? They seem to just stand by quietly and watch it happen, without taking action at all to police their religion. And, again, this could just be a problem with the press and media, and we just may not be seeing those public remonstrations.

Whenever there's an abortion clinic bombing by a radical Christian, you can immediately see press releases and postings on the Internet and newspapers and whatnots from Churches all over the nation and world condemning those actions, and offering support to the victims.

Now, I fully understand why Muslims were offended by the cartoon. However, free speech is a fundamental part of any civilized nation. Free speech includes satire. Now, however much that cartoon was in poor taste, it was still just satire. Danish Muslims have a right to complain and perhaps have a peaceful protest. It's when it turns into a riot that a line has been crossed. It's when it spreads to other Muslim nations that the protest has gone too far.

How often has Jesus Christ been satired in print? In all of media? Same with Moses. Same with Buddha. Same with Ganesh. Same with God. How many riots have been started over those? How many lives threatened?

[Warriorbird]

It never gets published. It isn't "exciting." That seems true in both conservative and liberal media.

[Ebondale]

I'm sure they feel exactly the same way about you and the other Americans that are roaming around in their country.

I think their reactions are a bit overdramatic, but at the same time I can understand it. Just because we don't have a hissy fit whenever someone depicts our God in a toonish fashion (which is pretty fucking often) doesn't mean that they don't have that right to since they don't have the religious freedoms that we do. The deaths that occur, however, are over the top.

I am not an eloquent person. More often than not, I know, I lack tact in the things that I say. That is an excellent way to say what I have been trying to convey.

EDIT TO ADD: People have killed in the name of God for thousands of years. I'm not trying to say that non-Muslim religions are innocent by any stretch of the imagination. I just don't recall anybody getting killed over a 'Buddy Christ' image in the movie Dogma.

http://quinnell.us/entertainment/movies/kevinsmith/dogma/images/buddychrist.jpg

[Skirmisher]

That is a very interesting statement. Could you provide some data on it?

I mean, Im sure you can gather some information on the crusades, but Im really curious what youre basing the statement on Judaism on.

Also, are we talking about interfaith violence only? Or would we include Shiite-Sunni violence alongside Protestant-Catholic violence.

I must say that I also would be quite interested in seeing where exactly the statistics you are using came from as I'm always looking to learn new things and that would be news to me.

[Landrion]

I assume he'd be citing Israeli war efforts.

Thats reasonable. Especially considering some of the things involving the Palestinians. Of course, Israel's various situations will provide some numbers for Muslim violence as well.

I'll admit my original was a loaded question and this is why. Judaism is a much smaller religion than most people tend to think of it as. For example:
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html has Judaism as .22% of the world pop (compare to Christian 33% and Islam 21%). Even if this source were wildly off (feel free to search out some others), Judaism just doesnt have the numbers of people to put out enough violence to stack up.

So if someone claimed that a certain group of 20 people caused as much violence as another group of 3300 people Id be pretty skeptical.


I'm not arguing numbers, but I'd sure as hell include Protestant-Catholic violence in any discussion of violence-for-God.
Jorddyn

Again, sort of a loaded question on my part. There is intrafaith violence between the Sunnis and Shiites (like the Protestants and Catholics) that is greater in scale than Jews have the numbers to produce.

[TinkerBell]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/religion_cartoons_dc;_ylt=AvBZZ9OQBFV3NkPHAjVlRP6s 0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

<quote>
Chanting "God is Greatest" and "Death to America" some 1,000 people rammed the metal gate to the embassy, which sits behind a high wall in northern Tehran. Police drove them back with teargas and arrested some, a Reuters correspondent said.
</quote>

Ugh, what? Death to America? Did somebody forget to tell them they were in front of the *Danish* embassy?

[Ebondale]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/06/cartoon.protests/t1.1456.burning.flag.ap.jpg

The Danish flag being burned in Bethlehem of all places...

[Ebondale]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/religion_cartoons_dc;_ylt=AvBZZ9OQBFV3NkPHAjVlRP6s 0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

<quote>
Chanting "God is Greatest" and "Death to America" some 1,000 people rammed the metal gate to the embassy, which sits behind a high wall in northern Tehran. Police drove them back with teargas and arrested some, a Reuters correspondent said.
</quote>

Ugh, what? Death to America? Did somebody forget to tell them they were in front of the *Danish* embassy?

I especially love the sign being held up that I posted earlier that said "Freedom Go To Hell". Brilliant.

[Jorddyn]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/religion_cartoons_dc;_ylt=AvBZZ9OQBFV3NkPHAjVlRP6s 0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

Ugh, what? Death to America? Did somebody forget to tell them they were in front of the *Danish* embassy?

I'd wager "Death to America" is just their battle cry, rather like "glass parking lot" has become on this end of the world.

Jorddyn

[Ebondale]

Glass parking lot? What? :)

[Latrinsorm]

You wouldn't see Christians, Jews, or Buddhists rioting over political cartoons or drawings.Christians and Jews (in name though not truth) don't exactly have a clean slate when it comes to absurd violence. Crazy people and idiots come with any label you could think up, and people are fond of misusing religion as a label.
It seems to me that there are just too many bad apples among the Muslim world to count. It seems to me that the bad apple % is twice as high in "Christianity". I wouldn't want to call you "ignorant" because I personally haven't been shot at by a Muslim, and we all know that's extremely relevant. Hey one time a black guy tried to light my hair on fire, I guess that means black people are just inherently violent and out of their fucking minds, because there's nothing that can contradict isolated anecdotal evidence.
Bush is a born again Christian who thinks he was chosen by God to be President and how many people has he killed by starting wars in Iraq, Afghanistan?Just when I thought the thread couldn't get any sillier.
Children and spouses are NOT property for purposes of this statement.How about people aren't property ever? I like the ring of that more. :)

[Hulkein]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/06/cartoon.protests/t1.irandanish.01.ap.jpg

I'm going to be... blunt.

Muslims are out of their fucking minds.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/06/cartoon.protests/story.kabul.ap.jpghttp://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/06/cartoon.protests/story.glass.ap.jpg
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060203/i/r1363645636.jpg?
Theres a classy sign.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060203/i/r399679231.jpg?
Oooh! Another classy sign!

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060205/i/r1489932145.jpg?
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/nm/20060206/2006_02_05t133027_450x300_us_religion_cartoons.jpg ?

Muslims SAY that they are peaceful people. That all of this violence is the work of religious extremists. Am I the only one who cares to call bullshit on that? We have Muslims rioting all over the world in groups of thousands because of a stupid political cartoon which is honestly pretty damn accurate.

A turbin made of a bomb. I suppose they want to disprove this image of the Muslim world by burning down the Danish embassy (an act of war) and rioting all over the world. That'll get the rest of the world to think better of Muslims.

So SUPPOSEDLY the whole thing is that drawing a characature of the prophet Muhammed can lead to Idolism, or so they say.

So whats the big fucking deal?

You wouldn't see Christians, Jews, or Buddhists rioting over political cartoons or drawings. Do you know why? Because Christians, Jews, and Buddhists aren't fucking crazy -- thats why.

I agree, Ebondale... No, it isn't everyone of them like Nieneque points out, but it's a horrifying percentage of them.

[Numbers]

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/02/05/we_are_all_danes_now/

Interesting article.

I'm not saying I agree with all of it, as radical <insert religion here>'s have the propensity to do crazy stuff. But I think this whole cartoon thing shows just how far these radical Muslims can go, and just how many of them are ready to start rioting at the drop of a hat.

This isn't a good religion. Almost all religions can be twisted and warped by people who are perverted enough to believe that violence against people who share different beliefs should be killed. But that's barbarous thinking, the type of which most of the civilized world left behind hundreds of years ago during the Dark Age. Sure, every now and then you get bad apples. It happens in everything, not just religion.

In any case, I'm an atheist. I think at its core, religion is dangerous, as right off the bat it forms key differences between people, and in our world of intolerance and murder, that doesn't exactly help.

And obviously I'm not saying all Muslims are like that. Hell, one of my ex-girlfriends was Muslim, and she finds radical Muslims disgusting and is ashamed that they do their deeds in the name of Islam. But, if the Jordanian editor is any indication, the Muslims who do dare speak out against the violence are quickly and quietly silenced.

Muslims have a long way to go in reforming their religion to keep these radical nutjobs from always shedding such a poor light on their people. And, you'd think that with 1.2 billion Muslims in the world, it would be an easy thing to do. The fact that no very little self-control and self-policing is being done, however, speaks poorly on a religion that constantly claims to be one of peace.

[HarmNone]

Have you been to Iraq? Do you know what it is like to have people watching you and not knowing if they are going to shoot at you, detonate an explosive vest beside you, or shake your hand?

You don't.

Peaceful people and insurgents blend in together. Thats all I mean by blending in, HN.

Heh. Don't ever assume, Ebondale. You'll find yourself wrong a good percentage of the time.

No, I've never been to Iraq. However, my parents and I were in Iran when the Shiites hit the fan (so to speak) in 1979. Yes, I know what it's like to have people with guns (and who knows what else) watching me. I know what tear gas feels like, as well. I know what it's like to have them glare at me, and what it's like to have them smile at me. They remain, as do we, individuals.

By the way...peaceful people and insurgents blend together here, too. I imagine it's even more so for those who are not born here.

[Gan]

I've been following this story since I first saw it hit the news.

Cant say that I'm not apalled at the behavior that has come forth from those doing the violent protesting. I have seen a few protests that were peaceful, but it seems that those do not get as much press as the ones that are destructive or violent, or those types of protests are not as prevalant.

Of all the opinions that have been expressed here, I'm in agreement with 3704458's posts most of all (all both of them) with regards to my own personal opinion of the protests, muslim experience with freedom of speech, and how religion and the propensity to judge people creates a train wreck in any social situation.

[Aaysia]

Christ Ebondale, you're sounding totally bumfucking retarded when you just group all Muslims together.

I haven't had the experiences you have granted, but that doesn't mean ALL Muslims are totally crazy.

[Warriorbird]

and how religion and the propensity to judge people creates a train wreck in any social situation.

Yeah. Damn Republicans.

[Sean of the Thread]

WOW... after watching the news tonite and seeing video of the world wide violent RIOTS.. not protests..RIOTS...

I swear it looks like the Muslims just won the NBA championship with all those RIOTS!

[Ebondale]

Heh. Don't ever assume, Ebondale. You'll find yourself wrong a good percentage of the time.

Well you know what they say about assuming. ;) I definitely did make an ass out of me, there.


when the Shiites hit the fan

Hehe, thats clever. :)

[Ebondale]

Christ Ebondale, you're sounding totally bumfucking retarded when you just group all Muslims together.

I haven't had the experiences you have granted, but that doesn't mean ALL Muslims are totally crazy.

*grins* Often times I speak first and think second. I don't really think that all Muslims are crazy. I do think that a large percentage of them are ready and willing to go above and beyond what a situation calls for at any given time, though.

Truthfully I've met quite a few very nice Muslims... its the ones that shoot at me while I'm trying to enjoy a nice bottle of water that stand out in my mind. lol

[Ebondale]

Not to be outdone by Europe, Iran is hosting a Holocaust Cartoon contest in their #1 newspaper.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,18066746-1702,00.html?from=rss

I'm not making this up.

[Numbers]

Satire of a religious figure that may or may not have existed two thousand years ago and basing that satire on current events that, to be blunt, carries plenty of truth in it, is extremely different from attempting to satirize the systematic murder of millions of people based on their religion 60 years ago.

But, Iran's fucked up anyhow, so it's just par for the course for them.

But, y'know, I think one of the problems with this whole thing is that many Muslims view this war as a war on Islam. That the U.S. is in the Middle East to kill Muslims. Now, while I'm sure many people over the globe firmly believe this, we all know that it's an absurdly stupid belief. The U.S. is in the Middle East to put an end to terrorists, who happen to be radical Muslims, and are hiding out in Muslim countries that oftentimes shelter, and to some extent, protect these terrorists. It's really not our fault that all of these terrorists, the ones who kill innocent people randomly, the ones who put bullet holes in school children, the ones who suicide bomb in public places, the ones who brutally kidnap and execute random people are all radical Muslims.

Fact is, if the people doing all of these atrocious acts were radical Christans, or radical Jews, or radical Buddhists, or radical Hindis, or shit, radical Scientologists, we'd currently be at war with them.

Radical members of a certain religion attempted to threaten our way of life. We're putting an end to it, since the other members of that religion were unable or unwilling to do anything about it. It's a shame that so many Muslims view our offensive as an attack on their religion specifically. Somehow they are unable to connect the fact that it was terrorism that prompted the reaction.

Shit... now you all know why I'm atheist.

Is religion really worth all of this?

[Hulkein]

Smart money says Jews across the world won't act like insane imbeciles and burn down embassies because of the cartoon contest.

[Ravenstorm]

The cartoons first came out in September. It took this long for the extremists to round up and coordinate enough people that they could manipulate into something newsworthy.

I bet they used a lot of phrases we'd find very familiar.

Raven

[Drew]

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/02/05/we_are_all_danes_now/


We are all Danes now

By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | February 5, 2006

HINDUS CONSIDER it sacrilegious to eat meat from cows, so when a Danish supermarket ran a sale on beef and veal last fall, Hindus everywhere reacted with outrage. India recalled its ambassador to Copenhagen, and Danish flags were burned in Calcutta, Bombay, and Delhi. A Hindu mob in Sri Lanka severely beat two employees of a Danish-owned firm, and demonstrators in Nepal chanted: ''War on Denmark! Death to Denmark!"In many places, shops selling Dansk china or Lego toys were attacked by rioters, and two Danish embassies were firebombed.

It didn't happen, of course. Hindus may consider it odious to use cows as food, but they do not resort to boycotts, threats, and violence when non-Hindus eat hamburger or steak. They do not demand that everyone abide by the strictures of Hinduism and avoid words and deeds that Hindus might find upsetting. The same is true of Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Mormons: They don't lash out in violence when their religious sensibilities are offended. They certainly don't expect their beliefs to be immune from criticism, mockery, or dissent.

But radical Muslims do.

The current uproar over cartoons of the Muslim prophet Mohammed published in a Danish newspaper illustrates yet again the fascist intolerance that is at the heart of radical Islam. Jyllands-Posten, Denmark's largest daily, commissioned the cartoons to make a point about freedom of speech. It was protesting the climate of intimidation that had made it impossible for a Danish author to find an illustrator for his children's book about Mohammed. No artist would agree to illustrate the book for fear of being harmed by Muslim extremists. Appalled by this self-censorship, Jyllands-Posten invited Danish artists to submit drawings of Mohammed, and published the 12 it received.

Most of the pictures are tame to the point of dullness, especially compared to the biting editorial cartoons that routinely appear in US and European newspapers. A few of them link Mohammed to Islamist terrorism -- one depicts him with a bomb in his turban, while a second shows him in Heaven, pleading with newly arrived suicide terrorists: ''Stop, stop! We have run out of virgins!" Others focus on the threat to free speech: In one, a sweating artist sits at his drawing board, nervously sketching Mohammed, while glancing over his shoulder to make sure he's not being watched.

That anything so mild could trigger a reaction so crazed -- riots, death threats, kidnappings, flag-burnings -- speaks volumes about the chasm that separates the values of the civilized world from those in too much of the Islamic world. Freedom of the press, the marketplace of ideas, the right to skewer sacred cows: Militant Islam knows none of this. And if the jihadis get their way, it will be swept aside everywhere by the censorship and intolerance of sharia.

Here and there, some brave Muslim voices have cried out against the book-burners. The Jordanian newspaper Shihan published three of the cartoons. ''Muslims of the world, be reasonable," implored Shihan's editor, Jihad al-Momani, in an editorial. ''What brings more prejudice against Islam -- these caricatures or pictures of a hostage-taker slashing the throat of his victim in front of the cameras?" But within hours Momani was out of a job, fired by the paper's owners after the Jordanian government threatened legal action.

He wasn't the only editor sacked last week. In Paris, Jacques LeFranc of the daily France Soir was also fired after running the Mohammed cartoons. The paper's owner, an Egyptian Copt named Raymond Lakah, issued a craven and Orwellian statement offering LeFranc's head as a gesture of ''respect for the intimate beliefs and convictions of every individual." But the France Soir staff defended their decision to publish the drawings in a stalwart editorial. ''The best way to fight against censorship is to prevent censorship from happening," they wrote. ''A fundamental principle guaranteeing democracy and secular society is under threat. To say nothing is to retreat."

Across the continent, nearly two dozen other newspapers have joined in defending that principle. While Islamist clerics proclaim an ''international day of anger" or declare that ''the war has begun," leading publications in Norway, France, Italy, Spain, Holland, Germany, Switzerland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic have reprinted the Danish cartoons. But there has been no comparable show of backbone in America, where (as of Friday) only the New York Sun has had the fortitude to the run some of the drawings.

Make no mistake: This story is not going away, and neither is the Islamofascist threat. The freedom of speech we take for granted is under attack, and it will vanish if it is not bravely defended. Today the censors may be coming for some unfunny Mohammed cartoons, but tomorrow it is your words and ideas they will silence. Like it or not, we are all Danes now.

Jeff Jacoby's e-mail address is jacoby@globe.com.

[Hulkein]

The cartoons first came out in September. It took this long for the extremists to round up and coordinate enough people that they could manipulate into something newsworthy.

I bet they used a lot of phrases we'd find very familiar.

Raven

I bet not.

Also, just because they came out in September doesn't mean all of the insane rioters saw them in September and have been under a brain-washing scheme by a select few 'bad guys' ever since then to burn down embassies against their will.

[Skirmisher]

I bet not.

Also, just because they came out in September doesn't mean all of the insane rioters saw them in September and have been under a brain-washing scheme by a select few 'bad guys' ever since then to burn down embassies against their will.
I do believe Raven was engaging in the fine art of hyperbole following the example of our great President and not speaking literally but instead using examples that "every American sitting out there listening ... understands.".

:)

[Latrinsorm]

The same is true of Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Mormons: They don't lash out in violence when their religious sensibilities are offended.......................................... ...

[Warriorbird]

I bet not.

You'd never even take the prospect seriously, Hulkein, and you know it.

[Numbers]

And now Iran has cut off all trade lines with Denmark.

......

Over a cartoon.

Of course, they only import about $280 million worth of Danish goods a year, but to stop trade over a cartoon?

Mountain, meet mole hill.

[Hulkein]

You'd never even take the prospect seriously, Hulkein, and you know it.

False.

[Moist Happenings]

You wouldn't see Christians, Jews, or Buddhists rioting over political cartoons or drawings. Do you know why? Because Christians, Jews, and Buddhists aren't fucking crazy -- thats why.

That's like stereotyping all Americans and saying that Americans are fucking crazy because they start riots after their teams win hockey games.

[Jolena]

....that is a tad on the crazy side.


:flee:

[Fission]

That's like stereotyping all Americans and saying that Americans are fucking crazy because they start riots after their teams win hockey games.

While rioting over a sports event is purely stupid, the situations are still a great deal different, both in severity and cause.

Civilians aren't deliberately murdered at the sporting event riots, nor are churches specifically targeted for attack. You also don't hear messages of hatred, intolerance, oppression and/or violence as the rioters' rallying cry.

Also, American political and religious leaders don't incite their citizenry to riot as a matter of course, particularly over something as trivial as a sporting event or a political cartoon.

[Warriorbird]

:shrugs: I think 73 died recently in a riot in the Phillipines over an American Idol knockoff. It ain't just Islam.

[Tromp]

:shrugs: I think 73 died recently in a riot in the Phillipines over an American Idol knockoff. It ain't just Islam.

The game show riot did not involve burning flags, boycott's, hate sponsored cartoon contests, etc....

IN MY OPINION history is something to learn from not repeat. All of the references of, "so and so did this or this group did the same thing..." justify nothing. This is something that is being exploited by extremist to give justification to their cause. Their spin doctors are just as good as the West's.

[Warriorbird]

Right...much like our political parties do things, just more violent internally.

[Ebondale]

That's like stereotyping all Americans and saying that Americans are fucking crazy because they start riots after their teams win hockey games.

I never said Americans aren't fucking crazy. We invented bungee jumping for Christ's sake. The rest of the world riots over soccer games so why can't we riot over a hockey game or two? ;)

[Numbers]

Another interesting article:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1156609-1,00.html

[TheEschaton]

Protesting a cartoon strikes me as a little silly, but ok.

From my understanding, Islamic art, if it is true to Islamic law, doesn't depict any life at all. Life is too sacred to be defiled in a manner where it is depicted as something able to be reproduced by human hands. This especially applies to the human figure. This is why you see lots of intricate patterning in Islamic art, but no, say, landscapes. To then take the image of the prophet Mohammed, the most revered human in the Islamic worldview, and draw him as a terrorist, in a country where there is a significant Muslim population, is ludicrous. And, as someone pointed out earlier, the Muslim community has tried for months to get an apology peacefully.

The meat/Hindu example is idiotic, since a sale on meat A) is not directed at Hindus, and B) is doesn't specifically insult one of Hindus main religious figures, like this cartoon. If this cartoon depicted Krishna poorly, you can be assured Hindus would riot. Have you heard of the Sepoy Mutiny? That was Hindus killing British colonialists because they wouldn't bit the cartridges greased in fat.

Furthermore, imagine if someone drew a picture of Mary, the Mother of God, in bed with Jesus, the Son of God, smoking a cigarette, and saying something like "Man, I've never had it like that before..." It's just an example off the top of my head.

What would Christians do? Probably try and extract an apology, peacefully, by lodging a protest. For awhile it would be peaceful.

What would they do if for half a year, the major newspaper in their country refused to print an apology?

What would those Mel Gibson types do?

I'm sure you'd hear a hell of a lot from the "Jewish Media" conspiracy theorists.

Now, you could argue this is a "free speech" issue. However, free speech does not include hate speech, at least in this country (and I believe in Denmark, too). You can say, yeah, you can print that cartoon of Jesus and Mary, but which cartoonist would do it? None, because A) they're most likely Christians, and B) they know they'd be lynched for it. That they drew the cartoon with Mohammed indicates to me that they have no respect for Muslims at all, and in the end, this is a matter of respecting other people's beliefs.

It's all in "Clash of Civilizations", people. Or McWorld vs. Jihad, read a bit!

-TheE-

[Fission]

The meat/Hindu example is idiotic, since a sale on meat A) is not directed at Hindus, and B) is doesn't specifically insult one of Hindus main religious figures, like this cartoon. If this cartoon depicted Krishna poorly, you can be assured Hindus would riot. Have you heard of the Sepoy Mutiny? That was Hindus killing British colonialists because they wouldn't bit the cartridges greased in fat.

The Sepoy Mutiny happened nearly 150 years ago under very different circumstances and in very different times. The British also seriously kicked their asses afterwards, and did far, far worse to the Sepoys than drawing cartoons.


You can say, yeah, you can print that cartoon of Jesus and Mary, but which cartoonist would do it?

Maybe that specific cartoon was never published, but it doesn't mean there's any lack of cartoonists or other artists willing to disrepect Christian religious figures. South Park and Penny Arcade have both used Jesus as a character, and pieces of art like Serrano's 'Piss Christ' have been around long before trouble with these Mohammed cartoons whirled up, and they're far from the only ones.

Yet where are the murders, violent riots, and wholesale destruction of property for them?

[Nieninque]

Don't flame me, I'd really rather not get into another flame war topic, Nieninque. There are other ways to express that you disagree with me.


But it's just so much more efficient to point out your failings by using the least amount of words.



Psychos numbering in the thousands. All over the world. You know the saying -- "if the shoe fits...."

Muslims numbering in the millions. All over the world. You know the saying -- "Ebondale talks a lot of shit."

[Artha]

Muslims numbering in the millions. All over the world.
Billions.

[Nieninque]

Even better

[DeV]

1.48 billion to be exact.

p.s. س-ل-م

[Numbers]

And, as someone pointed out earlier, the Muslim community has tried for months to get an apology peacefully.

Lack of an apology does not give them the right to have riots, kill people, and firebomb embassies.


The meat/Hindu example is idiotic, since a sale on meat A) is not directed at Hindus, and B) is doesn't specifically insult one of Hindus main religious figures, like this cartoon. If this cartoon depicted Krishna poorly, you can be assured Hindus would riot. Have you heard of the Sepoy Mutiny? That was Hindus killing British colonialists because they wouldn't bit the cartridges greased in fat.

It's a bit of an extreme example, sure, but it still rings true. It's a religious taboo to Hindis to eat meat, but they understand it is not in other cultures, so they don't riot and rave when they enter a country that has a thriving meat trade. Free speech, also, is an instilled right in other countries. That free speech includes satire. Sometimes the satire bites deep. But, again, to most of the civilized world, it is accepted, because it's a freedome. Just because this is not true in Muslim society does not mean that they should expect other societies to ignore a freedom for the comfort of Muslims. When Muslims immigrate to a new country, they should not expect that country to conform to their beliefs, which is what they have been doing. Rather, the Muslims should assimilate the best that they can to the culture of their new home, regardless of how uncomfortable it can make them. Their alternative is to move to the Middle East, where strict Muslim culture is the law.

And the Sepoy Mutiny was in 1857. It's now 2006.


Furthermore, imagine if someone drew a picture of Mary, the Mother of God, in bed with Jesus, the Son of God, smoking a cigarette, and saying something like "Man, I've never had it like that before..." It's just an example off the top of my head.

What would Christians do? Probably try and extract an apology, peacefully, by lodging a protest. For awhile it would be peaceful.

What would they do if for half a year, the major newspaper in their country refused to print an apology?

What would those Mel Gibson types do?

I really doubt that they would start rioting. I really doubt that they would threaten lives and firebomb embassies. I really doubt that they would threaten a second Holocaust.

Oh, and, offensive cartoons with Jesus are printed all the time.

Hey look! Jesus is high and is flashing some skin!

http://www.andertoons.com/images/blog/Gerhard-Haderer.jpg

Do you honestly think Christians would riot in the street over something like that? Keeping in mind that I'm sure we've all seen far more offensive Jesus cartoons?




Now, you could argue this is a "free speech" issue. However, free speech does not include hate speech, at least in this country (and I believe in Denmark, too). You can say, yeah, you can print that cartoon of Jesus and Mary, but which cartoonist would do it? None, because A) they're most likely Christians, and B) they know they'd be lynched for it. That they drew the cartoon with Mohammed indicates to me that they have no respect for Muslims at all, and in the end, this is a matter of respecting other people's beliefs.


I agree with you to a point. Yes, the Danish cartoon was in very poor taste, and yes, they probably should have published an apology. Do you really think an apology would have stopped the riots? Also keep in mind that these riots encompass more than a single cartoon. Many of them can be seen here:

http://www.nickscipio.com/funstuff/archive13/2006-02-02_muhammed.html

Now, I can understand why many Muslims would be outraged at some of these cartoons. And sure, I can see how they could be construed as hate speech (that's really a matter of point of views), but in no way do I see them as reasons to riot and kill people.

As I said in an earlier post, Muslims currenly have an Earth-sized spotlight shined in their direction. They've had one for a while. Their religion is not exactly the most respected one in the world at the moment. Wouldn't now be the time to prove to the rest of the world that the Muslim community is ready to join the rest of the world by granting their people some basic human rights? That they're able to express discontent at not getting their way without riots, explosions, and murder?

[Jorddyn]

p.s. س-ل-م

:little hippy guy smiley that we don't have anymore:

Jorddyn

[Drew]

Now, you could argue this is a "free speech" issue. However, free speech does not include hate speech, at least in this country (and I believe in Denmark, too).




What kind of crack are you smoking? If you have free speech "except for hate speech" you don't have free speech at all. In fact I think the most important kind of speech to protect is the speech that we find morally reprehensible, unresponsible, or offensive. It is in this kind of speech that we prove ourselves as a people. Can we tolerate what we dislike? If we can't then we are not free at all.

[Ebondale]

But it's just so much more efficient to point out your failings by using the least amount of words.

Are you always this obnoxious? I seem to remember having more respect for you than I do now.


Muslims numbering in the millions. All over the world. You know the saying -- "Ebondale talks a lot of shit."

Thousands are rioting in various countries. There is something like 1.5B Muslims. Get your facts straight. There aren't millions of people rioting hence I said thousands.

Really. Don't drag this topic down this path, Nieninque. Trying to turn this into a flame war isn't going to get you anywhere.

[Warriorbird]

I really doubt that they would start rioting. I really doubt that they would threaten lives and firebomb embassies.

Those type of people blow up abortion clinics and burn black churches. You'd be suprised.

[Hulkein]

Furthermore, imagine if someone drew a picture of Mary, the Mother of God, in bed with Jesus, the Son of God, smoking a cigarette, and saying something like "Man, I've never had it like that before..." It's just an example off the top of my head.

What would Christians do? Probably try and extract an apology, peacefully, by lodging a protest. For awhile it would be peaceful.

I can tell you what Christians here wouldn't do... They wouldn't burn down consulates and embassies, and cut off trade with the country who ran the cartoon.

[Latrinsorm]

Thousands are rioting in various countries. There is something like 1.5B Muslims. Get your facts straight.So... you're basing an attack on Muslims on at most 0.03% of Muslims? Classy.

[Drew]

So... you're basing an attack on Muslims on at most 0.03% of Muslims? Classy.




Based on how the sale of Danish goods has fallen precipitously in some of these countries more than just a few thousand are participating in a boycott. Plus recalling of ambassadors and actions like that are the action of an entire country.

[Numbers]

Those type of people blow up abortion clinics and burn black churches. You'd be suprised.

Yes, and I brought that up in one of my previous posts.

There are nutjobs in every religion.

I don't judge an entire religion based on those nutjobs.

I judge the religion based on the reaction from the other members of that religion have to those nutjobs.

Whenever there's an abortion clinic bombing or a black church burning by a radial Christian, other members of the Church, oftentimes powerful members, will immediately condemn those actions and offer support to the victims.

Where are the upstanding members of Muslim society? Who, of the Muslim community, is condemning the actions of radical Muslims? Which Muslims are offering support to the families of the victims of suicide bombings and executions? I'm sure it must be happening somewhere, and as I also mentioned in a previous post (do people even read my posts?), it may just be the American media's fault that we're not seeing the stand other Muslims are taking against their radical members.

Or, perhaps no stand is being made, no support offered, and anyone who does venture forth to make a stand is silenced. Perhaps people are too afraid to take a stand, to try and instill the belief that they must police their own religion and stop the radicals before they go to far. Obviously it won't be a woman making the stand, as women have no rights in their society, so that immediately eliminates 50% of Muslims who would dare speak out.

Gotta tell you, the odds are bad right off the bat.

[Drew]

It's not just religion, every viewpoint has it's nutjobs. The ELF has done more terroristic acts in the last five years than any abortion clinic bombings (when was the last time that happened?). Like 3586368 (number after 3 are just a guess) said it's how we respond to those kind of things that shows our true colours.

[Warriorbird]

Once again...any outcries that get made against this sort of thing are by and large ignored by all Western media...conservative or liberal.

[Numbers]

Once again...any outcries that get made against this sort of thing are by and large ignored by all Western media...conservative or liberal.

Can you please inform us of where they can be found?

[Fission]

Once again...any outcries that get made against this sort of thing are by and large ignored by all Western media...conservative or liberal.

Not to mention ignored by a fair segment of Muslims as well.

It's a problem that's not going to stop either, so long as such acts continue to have tacit and/or covert support.

The bombing of abortion clinics by fundamentalist Christians was also brought up, and those people are criminals as well. The main difference is they're treated as criminals by our society as well. Christian police don't turn a blind eye to them. Christian government officials don't sweep the matter under the rug, much less support them outright. Christian religious authorities don't laud them as heroes and promise them higher stations in Heaven for their reprehensible acts.

Huge difference there, and until Muslims are willing to do more than pay lip service to policing their own as well, things will never improve.

[Skirmisher]

Not to mention ignored by a fair segment of Muslims as well.

It's a problem that's not going to stop either, so long as such acts continue to have tacit and/or covert support.

The bombing of abortion clinics by fundamentalist Christians was also brought up, and those people are criminals as well. The main difference is they're treated as criminals by our society as well. Christian police don't turn a blind eye to them. Christian government officials don't sweep the matter under the rug, much less support them outright. Christian religious authorities don't laud them as heroes and promise them higher stations in Heaven for their reprehensible acts.

Huge difference there, and until Muslims are willing to do more than pay lip service to policing their own as well, things will never improve.

Yes.

[Ravenstorm]

Based on how the sale of Danish goods has fallen precipitously in some of these countries more than just a few thousand are participating in a boycott.

Evangelical Christians boycott US companies constantly. They boycotted Disney for nine years and are threatening to do so to Ford and Microsoft. Why? They're gay friendly.

So your point is what?

[Latrinsorm]

Based on how the sale of Danish goods has fallen precipitously in some of these countries more than just a few thousand are participating in a boycott. Plus recalling of ambassadors and actions like that are the action of an entire country.The percentage I quoted was if there were 500,000 Muslims ascribing to the "f Denmark" viewpoint. Recalling an ambassador is the action of politicians, not citizens.

[Warriorbird]

"Can you please inform us of where they can be found?"

The current Iraqi government has actually done some fairly serious denouncing of violence. You're missing my point though.

[xtc]

Can you please inform us of where they can be found?

I would be pleased to. My Uncle is the Chairman of the Muslim for the Conservative party in Britain. After the subway attacks in July he, as well as the other Leaders of Muslim Councils in Britain, condemned them. He has condemned the recent riots while supporting their right to peaceful protest. Again ignored by most Western media.

Here is an article about Muslim leaders in Britain condemning the riots, my Uncle isn't mentioned.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4676524.stm

[Hulkein]

I for one am not surprised that British Muslims are condemning it...

Seems to me the uncivilized 'LET'S VINDICATE THE CARTOONS BY BURNING SHIT DOWN' mob mentality is, for the most part, in the Middle East.

[xtc]

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/02/05/we_are_all_danes_now/


We are all Danes now

By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | February 5, 2006

HINDUS CONSIDER it sacrilegious to eat meat from cows, so when a Danish supermarket ran a sale on beef and veal last fall, Hindus everywhere reacted with outrage. India recalled its ambassador to Copenhagen, and Danish flags were burned in Calcutta, Bombay, and Delhi. A Hindu mob in Sri Lanka severely beat two employees of a Danish-owned firm, and demonstrators in Nepal chanted: ''War on Denmark! Death to Denmark!"In many places, shops selling Dansk china or Lego toys were attacked by rioters, and two Danish embassies were firebombed.

It didn't happen, of course. Hindus may consider it odious to use cows as food, but they do not resort to boycotts, threats, and violence when non-Hindus eat hamburger or steak. They do not demand that everyone abide by the strictures of Hinduism and avoid words and deeds that Hindus might find upsetting. The same is true of Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Mormons: They don't lash out in violence when their religious sensibilities are offended. They certainly don't expect their beliefs to be immune from criticism, mockery, or dissent.

But radical Muslims do.

The current uproar over cartoons of the Muslim prophet Mohammed published in a Danish newspaper illustrates yet again the fascist intolerance that is at the heart of radical Islam. Jyllands-Posten, Denmark's largest daily, commissioned the cartoons to make a point about freedom of speech. It was protesting the climate of intimidation that had made it impossible for a Danish author to find an illustrator for his children's book about Mohammed. No artist would agree to illustrate the book for fear of being harmed by Muslim extremists. Appalled by this self-censorship, Jyllands-Posten invited Danish artists to submit drawings of Mohammed, and published the 12 it received.

Most of the pictures are tame to the point of dullness, especially compared to the biting editorial cartoons that routinely appear in US and European newspapers. A few of them link Mohammed to Islamist terrorism -- one depicts him with a bomb in his turban, while a second shows him in Heaven, pleading with newly arrived suicide terrorists: ''Stop, stop! We have run out of virgins!" Others focus on the threat to free speech: In one, a sweating artist sits at his drawing board, nervously sketching Mohammed, while glancing over his shoulder to make sure he's not being watched.

That anything so mild could trigger a reaction so crazed -- riots, death threats, kidnappings, flag-burnings -- speaks volumes about the chasm that separates the values of the civilized world from those in too much of the Islamic world. Freedom of the press, the marketplace of ideas, the right to skewer sacred cows: Militant Islam knows none of this. And if the jihadis get their way, it will be swept aside everywhere by the censorship and intolerance of sharia.

Here and there, some brave Muslim voices have cried out against the book-burners. The Jordanian newspaper Shihan published three of the cartoons. ''Muslims of the world, be reasonable," implored Shihan's editor, Jihad al-Momani, in an editorial. ''What brings more prejudice against Islam -- these caricatures or pictures of a hostage-taker slashing the throat of his victim in front of the cameras?" But within hours Momani was out of a job, fired by the paper's owners after the Jordanian government threatened legal action.

He wasn't the only editor sacked last week. In Paris, Jacques LeFranc of the daily France Soir was also fired after running the Mohammed cartoons. The paper's owner, an Egyptian Copt named Raymond Lakah, issued a craven and Orwellian statement offering LeFranc's head as a gesture of ''respect for the intimate beliefs and convictions of every individual." But the France Soir staff defended their decision to publish the drawings in a stalwart editorial. ''The best way to fight against censorship is to prevent censorship from happening," they wrote. ''A fundamental principle guaranteeing democracy and secular society is under threat. To say nothing is to retreat."

Across the continent, nearly two dozen other newspapers have joined in defending that principle. While Islamist clerics proclaim an ''international day of anger" or declare that ''the war has begun," leading publications in Norway, France, Italy, Spain, Holland, Germany, Switzerland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic have reprinted the Danish cartoons. But there has been no comparable show of backbone in America, where (as of Friday) only the New York Sun has had the fortitude to the run some of the drawings.

Make no mistake: This story is not going away, and neither is the Islamofascist threat. The freedom of speech we take for granted is under attack, and it will vanish if it is not bravely defended. Today the censors may be coming for some unfunny Mohammed cartoons, but tomorrow it is your words and ideas they will silence. Like it or not, we are all Danes now.

Jeff Jacoby's e-mail address is jacoby@globe.com.

Jeff Jacob really needs to become more informed. First off there was an entire book in Denmark devoted to attacking Mohammed not just one cartoon.

Secondly, Jeff shows a surprising ignorance. Hindus in India have rioted on many occasions attacking and killing both Christians and Muslims for "religious" reasons. In 1998 Hindus burns churches, bibles and attacked Priests and Nuns. Today India has dispaced riot police because they fear the same will happen.

http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=18632

Every religion is prone to violence.

[xtc]

I for one am not surprised that British Muslims are condemning it...

Seems to me the uncivilized 'LET'S VINDICATE THE CARTOONS BY BURNING SHIT DOWN' mob mentality is, for the most part, in the Middle East.

Lebanese Muslim leaders have also condemned the attacks.

[xtc]

Here is some proof of recent Christian violence, not that the pogrums in Europe were that long ago. Ironically enough my source for this quote is Fox News.

"Mobs of Christians attacked Muslims in southern neighborhoods of Kaduna "with new bitterness" Saturday because they viewed the pageant's cancellation as a "Muslim victory," Nigerian Red Cross president Emmanuel Ijewere said."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,71172,00.html

[Latrinsorm]

Every religion is prone to violence.Every religion has *constituents* that are prone to violence.

[Ebondale]

Every religion has *constituents* that are prone to violence.

Please, by all means find me a violent Buddhist.

[Sean]

Please, by all means find me a violent Buddhist.

I take it you havn't met a drunk Edaarin yet then?

[xtc]

Quote:


Please, by all means find me a violent Buddhist.

THE DKBA for a start, there are lots of examples of violent Buddhists. No religion is immune.

http://www.tkb.org/Group.jsp?groupID=3583

or the Khmer Rouge for another, they may have been communists but most were also Buddhists.

[Ebondale]

I take it you havn't met a drunk Edaarin yet then?

:lol:


THE DKBA for a start, there are lots of examples of violent Buddhists. No religion is immune.

I suppose not, but wouldn't being violent and being a Buddhist make you... not a Buddhist?

[xtc]

:lol:



I suppose not, but wouldn't being violent and being a Buddhist make you... not a Buddhist?

As attacking innocent people would make you not a Muslim.

[Numbers]

http://www.gaspirtz.com/dp/files/1-8.jpg

Where are the riots over this cartoon? It offends two religions at once.

[Warriorbird]

Because our country and our religions can inflame people into pointless wars using other tools.

[Sean of the Thread]

The Muslim populace that are violently protesting are just assholes.. can't we chalk it up to that and get over the "all religions do it" argument? Shit I'm running late.. me and my Presbyterian gang gotta go fill up our bottles with gasoline and march on the Iranian embassy downtown. I'll finish this later.

[Hulkein]

Because our country and our religions can inflame people into pointless wars using other tools.

Pretty relevent. /sarcasm

[Warriorbird]

A lot like your comment.

;)

[Numbers]

Interesting article/speech by an Arab Muslim:

http://www.worldthreats.com/middle_east/Haim%20Harari.htm

"I should also say a word about the millions of decent, honest, good people who are either devout Moslems or are not very religious but grew up in Moslem families. They are double victims of an outside world, which now develops Islamophobia and of their own environment, which breaks their heart by being totally dysfunctional. The problem is that the vast silent majority of these Moslems are not part of the terror and of the incitement but they also do not stand up against it. They become accomplices, by omission, and this applies to political leaders, intellectuals, business people and many others. Many of them can certainly tell right from wrong, but are afraid to express their views."

[Sean of the Thread]

I for one have not developed "Islamophobia" and I also don't feel that they are "double victims". I do think the ones VIOLENTLY rioting are assholes. The ones that remain the "silent majority" need to stand up against it. They don't become accomplices by omission but they do become one by not taking a stance.

"Many of them can certainly tell right from wrong, but are afraid to express their views."

Gee I wonder why the majority of 1.5 billion people are afraid to express their views????

[Jorddyn]

Gee I wonder why the majority of 1.5 billion people are afraid to express their views????

See: China.

Jorddyn

[Back]

See: China.

Jorddyn

And if it gets that way here in America...

[Jorddyn]

And if it gets that way here in America...

See: Canada.

Jorddyn

[Back]

See: Canada.

Jorddyn

I was thinking Mexico. Much warmer climate, lots of beaches, margaritas and se&#241;oritas.

http://img.meetup.com/photos/event/8/d/3/6/event_156150.jpeg

[Sean of the Thread]

See: China.

Jorddyn


Which is my point.

[xtc]

The Muslim populace that are violently protesting are just assholes.. can't we chalk it up to that and get over the "all religions do it" argument? Shit I'm running late.. me and my Presbyterian gang gotta go fill up our bottles with gasoline and march on the Iranian embassy downtown. I'll finish this later.

Presbyterian gang you must be with the UVF, don't forget to hello to the Right Reverend Ian Paisley. Now Ian isn't a member of the UVF but he sure knows how to stir them up. I think the day you are waiting for is William of Orange day, where you march on the Queen's highway through Catholic neighbourhoods, which is your legal right but usually starts some violence. You also conduct bombings, kidnappings, assasinations, extortion and robberies. One small detail though, Belfast is where you practice your terror.

[xtc]

http://www.gaspirtz.com/dp/files/1-8.jpg

Where are the riots over this cartoon? It offends two religions at once.

Perhaps you have heard of the Lord's Army in Uganda? They have been very active of late murdering and raping children. There is of course the KKK and The Order. Let's not forget Pat Robertson's recent fatwah on Hugo Chavez. In Sri Lanka, there is the forced conversion of Buddhists by Christians. In Nigeria, Christians have attacked and murdered many Muslims, some say with the help of the Government. Oh and one last thing, perhaps you have heard of the Crusades?

The author of the cartoon also authored an entire book attacking Islam. Maybe the riots are over more than the cartoon, so far America has invaded two Muslim countries with an eye on a third.

[xtc]

Interesting article/speech by an Arab Muslim:

http://www.worldthreats.com/middle_east/Haim%20Harari.htm

"I should also say a word about the millions of decent, honest, good people who are either devout Moslems or are not very religious but grew up in Moslem families. They are double victims of an outside world, which now develops Islamophobia and of their own environment, which breaks their heart by being totally dysfunctional. The problem is that the vast silent majority of these Moslems are not part of the terror and of the incitement but they also do not stand up against it. They become accomplices, by omission, and this applies to political leaders, intellectuals, business people and many others. Many of them can certainly tell right from wrong, but are afraid to express their views."

LoL Haim Harari the author of that quote is an Israeli Jew and a physicist.

http://www.jinfo.org/Physicists.html

He should stick to physics because he doesn't know shit about Islam. Muslims stand up every day and speak out against the violence, which is a drop in the bucket compared to Christianty's history of violence. CNN just doesn't like to cover the stories.

[Sean of the Thread]

Presbyterian gang you must be with the UVF, don't forget to hello to the Right Reverend Ian Paisley. Now Ian isn't a member of the UVF but he sure knows how to stir them up. I think the day you are waiting for is William of Orange day, where you march on the Queen's highway through Catholic neighbourhoods, which is your legal right but usually starts some violence. You also conduct bombings, kidnappings, assasinations, extortion and robberies. One small detail though, Belfast is where you practice your terror.

UVF = paramilitary with a political agenda.. not Presbyterians. It's not a roving band of violent Presbyterian protestors...It's a paramilitary. They have killed and terrorized everyone including Presbyterians and protestants based on politcal motivations.. not religious.

I can think of another group of protestants who formed a paramilitary and fought the man for what was right back in 1775..

[Warriorbird]

"Gee I wonder why the majority of 1.5 billion people are afraid to express their views????"

Once again...nobody, conservative or liberal, reports it if they do. It isn't exciting like scary demonstrators.

[Sean of the Thread]

"Gee I wonder why the majority of 1.5 billion people are afraid to express their views????"

Once again...nobody, conservative or liberal, reports it if they do. It isn't exciting like scary demonstrators.

I was being facetious..

Perhaps the IRA are suppressing them.


On a side note that latino soccer cheerleader?? reminds me of the other day when I was passing thru the living room at my pops and caught grandma watching some male stripper on the channel 2 network spanish channel Sabado SPECTACULAROZ or something. haha.. so funny she doesn't know a lick of spanish. There are some hot latino womenz :)

[Ebondale]

http://www.shopmetrospy.com/

http://www.shopmetrospy.com/store_images/125_caricature.gif

Wow. Thats a uh... gutsy t-shirt company?

[xtc]

UVF = paramilitary with a political agenda.. not Presbyterians. It's not a roving band of violent Presbyterian protestors...It's a paramilitary. They have killed and terrorized everyone including Presbyterians and protestants based on politcal motivations.. not religious.

I can think of another group of protestants who formed a paramilitary and fought the man for what was right back in 1775..

The UVF is a terrorist organisation. It was founded by Protestants and has engaged in the killing of Catholics for the most part. In Ireland political and religious motivations are the same, just like in parts of the Muslim world. Osama has killed Muslims who don't agree with him politically as well.

You are comparing the UVF to those who founded America? So you think the UVF is right to kill as they do?

Amazing your hypocrisy.

[xtc]

http://www.shopmetrospy.com/

http://www.shopmetrospy.com/store_images/125_caricature.gif

Wow. Thats a uh... gutsy t-shirt company?

just a dumb one.

[Jorddyn]

just a dumb one.

True.

I'd wear one that said "Can't we all just STOP BLOWING EACH OTHER UP?", though.

Jorddyn

P.S. Yes, the UP must be on there.

[xtc]

True.

I'd wear one that said "Can't we all just STOP BLOWING EACH OTHER UP?", though.

Jorddyn

P.S. Yes, the UP must be on there.

I'd wear that one too.

[Hulkein]

Then I'll put on my shirt with OBL saying 'No.'

[Jorddyn]

Then I'll put on my shirt with OBL saying 'No.'

Shocking.

Jorddyn

[Hulkein]

Not really...