Giant Cleric Training

[Siefer]

Reopened my account after almost 2 years, feeling pretty overwhelmed by GSIV. Looking for some training advice for my cleric. Also, whatever little details you think I should know about GSIV, I need a crash course in whatever has changed.

Name: Siefer Beduul Race: Giant Profession: Cleric (shown as: Crusader)
Gender: Male Age: 30 Expr: 653588 Level: 23
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 61 (20) ... 61 (20)
Constitution (CON): 43 (7) ... 43 (7)
Dexterity (DEX): 92 (16) ... 92 (16)
Agility (AGI): 74 (7) ... 74 (7)
Discipline (DIS): 43 (-3) ... 43 (-3)
Aura (AUR): 96 (18) ... 96 (18)
Logic (LOG): 79 (9) ... 79 (9)
Intuition (INT): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Wisdom (WIS): 99 (24) ... 99 (24)
Influence (INF): 67 (13) ... 67 (13)
Mana: 93 Silver: 0


Siefer (at level 23), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 30 6
Physical Fitness...................| 62 13
Arcane Symbols.....................| 105 25
Magic Item Use.....................| 105 25
Spell Aiming.......................| 150 50
Harness Power......................| 134 37
Spirit Mana Control................| 105 25
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 134 37
Perception.........................| 62 13
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 50 10

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 10

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 20

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 23
Training Points: 124 Phy 0 Mnt (434 Phy converted to Mnt)
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

[Mistomeer]

Depends on what you want to do.
The most effective hunting cleric would be 1x Brawling/1x Shield with a focus on Cleric CS.
Religion Lore really comes into play when you start hunting with 312 and 317 and channeling has an impact on 312 as well. However, you won't really have the mana for those spells until you're older so you could hold off on that if you wanted.

This is my Dark Elf cleric's training plan at 26, but the FA and Survival are just for skinning:
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 47 (-1) ... 47 (-1)
Constitution (CON): 42 (-9) ... 33 (-13)
Dexterity (DEX): 76 (23) ... 76 (23)
Agility (AGI): 47 (4) ... 47 (4)
Discipline (DIS): 78 (4) ... 78 (4)
Aura (AUR): 76 (23) ... 76 (23)
Logic (LOG): 98 (24) ... 98 (24)
Intuition (INT): 100 (30) ... 105 (32)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (30) ... 105 (32)
Influence (INF): 99 (19) ... 99 (19)

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Shield Use.........................| 114 28
Brawling...........................| 114 28
Physical Fitness...................| 90 20
Harness Power......................| 156 56
Spirit Mana Control................| 102 24
Survival...........................| 114 28
Climbing...........................| 114 28
Swimming...........................| 25 5
First Aid..........................| 156 56

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 2

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 10

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 54

[Siefer]

I'm not in Voln, so is brawling still a viable path? What about my spells and magical skills and lores and such? I left right around the time GSIV hit so I don't know what the lores, arcane symbols, and harness power is for. Only thing I know is that most people say spell aiming is a waste.

[Mistomeer]

Brawling is viable, but not for swinging. If you hunt with an open hand then you can channel warding spells like 302, 312 and 317. Again, the most effective hunting path for a cleric is warding with 302, 312 and 317. At your train you would depend on 302.

This is the CS formula where primary would be cleric and the two secondaries would be your spirit circles:

CS = (level x 3) + primary spell circle bonus + secondary spell circle 1 + secondary spell circle 2 + stat bonus

-----------------------------
Primary spell circle bonus: (round normally)
Ranks up to level: 1CS/rank
Ranks 1-20 above level: .75CS/rank
Ranks 21-60 above level: .5CS/rank
Ranks 61-100 above level: .25CS/rank
Ranks 101 -? above level: .125CS/rank

-----------------------------
Secondary circle bonuses:
Ranks up to 2/3 level: .33333CS/rank (round up)
Ranks above 2/3 level: .1CS/rank

Again, the only lore that really affects warding is Religion and it really doesn't matter until you start using 312 and 317 regularly at which time you'd want to be about 1x'd in it.

Harness Power is for mana and you should be fine just going 1x in it, but if you want you could 2x it for awhile for a little extra mana. Many feel it's not worth it, but it really depends on your training plan and how many points you have.

Arcane symbols = Scroll Reading

[Siefer]

Alright, 1x Brawling, 1x Shield so far, how do you recommend I place my spells and the other magical skills? What's your take on spell aiming? I haven't gotten many positive opinions about it? What about fitness, perception, climbing and swimming?

[Sean]

Religion doesn't make a big enough difference in 317 to be worth using in my opinion. But if you like 312 then yes it's useful.. or if you like wasting mana infusing your 302.

[Mistomeer]

Spell placement depends on what you want to do. If you understand the formula I posted, then you can figure out the benefits for placement and weigh the costs. It you don't, let me know, but I would recommend keeping cleric ranks at least 20 ranks above your level with the goal being to keep it at 60 ranks above your level.

Spell aiming is flat out not worth it. During my migration period I tried it out. I could never hunt all that effectively as a 54 train Giant cleric with bolts. I found it to be mana inefficient as well as not worth the TP's. The only reason I see for spell aiming is for variety. It gives you another hunting option when you're tired of warding or have trouble warding something, but as a cleric you'll never be able to bolt like a wizard. Personally, I didn't think it was worth it even though it could be fun at times.

You'll need 24 or so ranks of climbing and swimming by 66 to get into the Rift and I *think* you can make the trip to Nations and back with 10 ranks (possibly less) of climbing. Perception is rumored to help with finding better treasure as well as with travel and pickpocketing. If you're going to areas that require perception to get into, then get it. If you don't get it now, you can always pick up a few ranks later.

As far as arcane symbols and MIU, I don't use scrolls and wands are useless really without spell aim, but some people are huge fans of both. Guess that depends on which category you fall into there. If you love using scrolls, then get some arcane symbols.

If you have room, I'd 2x HP and 1x religion lore because you will cast 312 and 317 from time to time and both really help with that. As a cleric that depends on warding, the length of your hunt comes down to mana (Harness Power) and your proficiency depends on damage per cast (Your CS vs. their TD and Religion lore).

Also, you'll need 24 ranks of spiritual mana control to raise so make sure you have that if you're going to raise.

[Siefer]

Should I stop at 24 ranks of SMC or keep going? Also, what do you think of my stats? Edited for one more thing. Is brig still the end-game for cleric armor?

[Mistomeer]

I'd stop with 24 ranks of SMC. I know capped clerics in brig, and I know others in double chain. Just depends on how much hindrance you're willing to put up with. Personally, as an 82 cleric I liked having lower hindrance and would usually just run around in doubles since elemental or sorc warding spells were usually how I died.

The following stats geared towards maxxing mental Training Points at Level 100:

Strength (STR): 25
Constitution (CON): 21
Dexterity (DEX): 70
Agility (AGI): 23
Discipline (DIS): 70
Aura (AUR): 70
Logic (LOG): 90
Intuition (INT): 98
Wisdom (WIS): 98
Influence (INF): 95

With regards to your stats, your STR and AGI are really high for a character whose best attack is warding from guarded. DS shouldn't be a problem since you'll be attacking from guarded as long as you train Minor Spirit before Major Spirit. You might want to train Major Spirit to 202, then work on getting Minor Spirit to 120 before going back to Major all the while keeping your Cleric ranks 20-60 ranks above your level.

[Siefer]

I really want to get 130 and 225 as soon as possible. Will my cleric CS allow me to hunt like level stuff if I grab those spells first?

[mgoddess]

Siefer (at level 23), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 30 6
Physical Fitness...................| 62 13
Arcane Symbols.....................| 105 25
Magic Item Use.....................| 105 25
Spell Aiming.......................| 150 50
Harness Power......................| 134 37
Spirit Mana Control................| 105 25
Spiritual Lore - Religion..........| 134 37
Perception.........................| 62 13
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 50 10

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 10

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 20

Spell Lists
Cleric.............................| 23
Training Points: 124 Phy 0 Mnt (434 Phy converted to Mnt)
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

I know almost nothing about stats with Clerics, so I won't even try to give advice for them.

Skills look pretty good. I'd drop Spell Aiming down to between 0.5x & 1x'ing (it's useful for 111 when warding doesn't work). Lore's I couldn't tell you much about, besides maybe dropping your current one down to 1x'ing. I'd suggest choosing between Arcane Symbols & MIU (one or the other) if you go the Shield/Brawling route....personally, I find Arcane Symbols more useful, but that's just me (and only 25-30 ranks of it...any more just gives you more duration on the invoked spell). Get your Physical Fitness up to your max Hit Points as soon as you can (probably around 20-25 ranks worth)...hit points/health is a very good thing to have. For your Clerical CS, you'll want to keep 1x'ing in the cleric circle to be able to ward like-level critters. Any spare TP's you get can go into the 100/200 circles

[Mistomeer]

I really want to get 130 and 225 as soon as possible. Will my cleric CS allow me to hunt like level stuff if I grab those spells first?


Yeah, just keep it like level. Overtraining doesn't really pay off until older levels, but as you get older, it really pays off.

[Siefer]

Once I get 140 and 225, should I leave them at that and pour everything in cleric?

[Snapp]

Once I get 140 and 225, should I leave them at that and pour everything in cleric?
I don't have the spell myself, but I hear 240 is a pretty nifty spell. Might want to consider getting it when you get to that point.

[Siefer]

I've been hunting with both hands empty lately, and I've seen a major increase in the performance of 302. I've been thinking of dropping my shield ranks entirely and singling survival and first aid. Will this cause problems for me at later levels?

[Mistomeer]

Yep. Especially when you hunt things that bolt.