Squares, Semis, and Pures?

[Ebondale]

>cman help disarm
Skill Name: Disarm Weapon
Mnemonic: disarm
Hostile: Yes
Stamina Cost: Base 12 (-2 Rank 3, -4 Rank 2, -6 Rank 1)
Other Requirements: A weapon to disarm with (Rank 5 masters may disarm bare-handed).
Available to: Warriors, Rogues, Wizards, Clerics, Empaths, Sorcerers, Rangers, Bards, Savants, Monks, Paladins.
Prerequisites:
None
CMP Cost:
Rank 1: (Squares) 2 (Semis) 3 (Pures) 4
Rank 2: (Squares) 4 (Semis) 6 (Pures) 8
Rank 3: (Squares) 6 (Semis) 9 (Pures) 12
Rank 4: (Squares) 8 (Semis) 12 (Pures) 16
Rank 5: (Squares) 10 (Semis) 15 (Pures) 20
Description: Attempt to knock a target's weapon to the ground.

All right so my little Warrior project is training in combat maneuvers. So far I've learned WSPEC1 to assist with his Claidhmore AS and I don't know what to shoot for next until he is high enough train to train in WSPEC1 again.

Exactly what is the difference between Square, Semi, and Pure? How do you even tell the difference?

[Daniel]

Square- Warrior\Rogue
Semi-Ranger, bard, Paladin
Pure-everything else

[Renian]

Good way to remember:

Squares - Pure physical classes. (Warriors and Rogues)
Semis - The "hybrid" classes that have their own spell circle and either the Minor Elemental or Spiritual spell circle. (Rangers, Paladins, Bards)
Pures - Those who have three spell circles, and thus can 3x spell research. (Sorcerers, Wizards, Clerics, Empaths)

[Ebondale]

So by the breakdown that means that it would cost a warrior like 10 stamina to use a skill whereas it would cost a wizard 20? Or am I way off? :) I'm new to the whole Combat Maneuvers thing. Heh heh... it shows.

[Latrinsorm]

Stamina costs are the same (in an absolute sense). CMP cost means it costs a pure or semi more of those points you get from training in Combat Maneuvers (the mangler skill) to learn the maneuver.

[Ebondale]

Ooooh, gotcha. Makes sense. Any particular CMs you think a 2-handed warrior should have from an early level?

[Latrinsorm]

Early levels with a 2hander should be a cake walk, no CMANs needed.

CMANs every warrior should have eventually:
Berserk (strongly recommend getting this in guild).
Bonding.
Some sort of knockdown. Guild tackle or CMAN bullrush (recommended) for a 2hander.
Some sort of disabler maneuver. Guild tricks (feint, strongly recommended) or maybe CMAN headbutt. Something along those lines.

If you go entirely CMAN, that's 20 + 30 (+12 for wspec prereq) + 30 + 20 = 112 CMAN points or level 55. By then you should have a feel for what your character could use or what you'd like. Surge and Mobility are nice CMANs, Focus can be useless or awesome.

[Ebondale]

I'm trying to 2x CMAN for life, Latrinsorm. Thanks for the tips. Doesn't tackle leave you lying prone when you use it? Or is that just if you aren't skilled in it? :)

[Warriorbird]

Tackle sucks. Eventually, CMAN Bull Rush has much quicker RT, so you should aim for that.

Pre guild, berserk is handy from the CMan list...as is feint.

Post guild, guild train in berserk and warrior tricks....

get weapon bonding, some sure, and wspec from the cman list.

Your bonding and spec will make your guild based feint mega strong. Also, if you want to do guild based Disarm, that'd be true too, but I hated having to have a partner for guild reps (and that there was no Illistim warrior guild).

Mblow and Sunder Shield are situationally handy.

[Edited on 1-14-2006 by Warriorbird]

[Landrion]

Originally posted by Ebondale
I'm trying to 2x CMAN for life, Latrinsorm. Thanks for the tips. Doesn't tackle leave you lying prone when you use it? Or is that just if you aren't skilled in it? :)

You only go prone (lying) on a tackle if youre low skill and critically (by a wide margin) fail. Later on you go kneeling if you critically fail.

[Ebondale]

So this whole guild skill versus CMAN thing... If I learn CMAN tackle and warrior guild tackle do those skills build upon one another or do I have to pretty much use one or the other?

[Warriorbird]

One or the other, Ebondale. They don't boost each other.

The 7 second RT and stancing is what kills me regarding tackle, Landrion. 5 seconds is miles better for a setup skill.

[Edited on 1-14-2006 by Warriorbird]

[Ebondale]

Then if I get guild skills that are better than the equivalent CMAN skills should I just concentrate my CMAN points into things like wspec (probably for two handed weapons and brawling) and parry mastery and stuff along those lines?

[Warriorbird]

That's what I did....I had a lot of wspec and bonding, a fair amount of Surge, and other stuff as needed.

I got Berserk and Tricks (both of which are VERY useful) through the guild.

Bull Rush, Disarm, Sunder, and Tackle might also be useful on top of that.

Alternately...if you're a shield doubler or tripler, the shield bash/charge skills have their advantages.

Some people also swear by Headbutt. I never liked it. There's some knockout punch type thing that people like for PvP (Haymaker, I believe).

[Edited on 1-15-2006 by Warriorbird]

[Ebondale]

Whats so great about haymaker? O_o

[Latrinsorm]

...you're punching someone in the face. What's not to love? I assume folks like it because it causes head trauma (pwn casters!) and is fairly low-stamina.

Shield bash (and presumably charge) has one flaw in that there is a hidden roll once endroll success is determined that can cause a "partially avoid" outcome. In my experience (with shield bash) this is heavily level-comparison based. Shield charge seemed to have less of that problem but it was also slow as all get out.

[Ebondale]

Does Haymaker take any brawling skill into consideration?

[Latrinsorm]

Yes.

[Ebondale]

Aw poop. I have no brawling skill. :D

Want to get some, though... if I have two handed weapon skill and brawling skill will I have more DS in defensive stance than if I just have two handed weapon skill? How dependant on brawling is Haymaker?

[Bobmuhthol]

My two warriors, for reference:

You are Guild Master of the Warrior Guild.
You are 2 months behind with your dues.
You have received one reminder about your past dues.
You currently have 144 ranks out of a possible 176 for your training.

You have 1 rank in the Disarm Weapon skill.
You are not currently training in this skill.

You have 1 rank in the Berserk skill.
You are not currently training in this skill.

You are a Master of Warrior Tricks.

You are a Master of Tackle.

You have 12 ranks in the War Cries skill.
You need 100 training points to earn your next rank.
The Training Administrator told you to get a partner to teach some war cry techniques.
You have 11 repetitions remaining to complete this task.

You have 10 ranks in the Batter Barriers skill.
You are not currently training in this skill.

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Mighty Blow mblow 5
Haymaker haymaker 5
Subdual Strike sstrike 1
Coup de Grace coupdegrace 4
Surge of Strength surge 1

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 2

Level 42.


You are a member of the Warrior Guild.
You are 2 months behind with your dues.
You have received one reminder about your past dues.
You currently have 102 ranks out of a possible 104 for your training.

You have 1 rank in the Disarm Weapon skill.
You need 89 training points to earn your next rank.
The Training Administrator told you to use a practice twohanded weapon with the Wheel.
You have 20 repetitions remaining to complete this task.

You have 1 rank in the Berserk skill.
You are not currently training in this skill.

You are a Master of Warrior Tricks.

You have 41 ranks in the Tackle skill.
You need 55 training points to earn your next rank.
The Training Administrator told you to practice tackling creatures.
You have 8 repetitions remaining to complete this task.

You have 1 rank in the War Cries skill.
You are not currently training in this skill.

You have 1 rank in the Batter Barriers skill.
You are not currently training in this skill.

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Mighty Blow mblow 4
Sunder Shield sunder 4
Haymaker haymaker 4
Coup de Grace coupdegrace 2
Surge of Strength surge 1

Level 29.

[Back]

Anyone using Precision with any effectiveness?


Skill Name: Precision
Mnemonic: precision
Hostile: No
Stamina Cost: None.
Other Requirements: Requires a weapon in right hand.
Available to: Warriors, Rogues, Wizards, Clerics, Empaths, Sorcerers, Rangers, Bards, Savants, Monks, Paladins.
Prerequisites:
None
CMP Cost:
Rank 1: (Squares) 4 (Semis) 6 (Pures) 8
Rank 2: (Squares) 6 (Semis) 9 (Pures) 12
Description: Precision allows you to specify the damage type of a weapon (crushing, slashing, or puncture) when used in combat. Up to 30 weapon types can be specified, and your preference will be stored and automatic, can also be cleared or reset. At one rank, your preference will be used 75% of the time, else the weapon has its normal damage chances. At two ranks, the weapon will always deliver your preferred type of damage. Precision does not function with aimed (ambush) or ranged attacks.


[Edited on 1-15-2006 by Backlash]

[Bobmuhthol]

It effectively sucks.

[Ebondale]

Doesn't sound like it would be all that useless. What about critters that are immune to piercing and stuff like that?

[Back]

Thats exactly what it is for I think. I was just hunting bone golems and it would come in handy in that case.

I wonder how much testing has been done with it.

[Stunseed]

Only time I see Precision being worth it would be for a lance wielding undead hunter.

[Ebondale]

Think it could be used by someone who uses ranged weapons? That would be odd. Arrows that bash the living shit out of people. :)

[Stunseed]

I want to say Precision works on the bow, not the arrow. Sorry though.

[Bobmuhthol]

Not only does it only work for melee, you can't make the weapon do something it can't normally do. An arrow will never do anything but puncture.

[Bobmuhthol]

ps. read the full description

<<Precision does not function with aimed (ambush) or ranged attacks.>>

[Back]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Not only does it only work for melee, you can't make the weapon do something it can't normally do. An arrow will never do anything but puncture.

But there are weapons that do all three. Longsword. So I figure try the three types, slash, puncture, crush, see what works best on what you are hunting at the time, and set your precision.

Most likely, most creatures are affected the same way by all three. Its only those with specific immunities or weaknesses that this would be used for.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<So I figure try the three types, slash, puncture, crush, see what works best on what you are hunting at the time, and set your precision.

Most likely, most creatures are affected the same way by all three. Its only those with specific immunities or weaknesses that this would be used for.>>

I didn't dispute this at all: it's almost 100% valid, except nothing is necessarily more susceptible to crush, puncture, or slash; only immunities to puncture exist as far as I know. What really matters as far as crit type is the targeted body part, and precision doesn't let you aim.

[Ebondale]

Would be easier just to find something else to hunt rather than spend all the CMAN points on Precision, in that case.

[Bobmuhthol]

Pretty much.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Ebondale
if I have two handed weapon skill and brawling skill will I have more DS in defensive stance than if I just have two handed weapon skill?Neither in defensive nor in any other stance.

[Ebondale]

Dang. Good for disarm, though.

[Edited on 1-15-2006 by Ebondale]