For Red Sox fans

[Numbers]

Sorry.

Couldn't resist.

:lol:

[Ilvane]

:no::no::no::no:

:bye:

Such a traitor..:sob:

-A

[Sean]

I think Bill Simmons wrote a pretty good article about it considering he's a boston fan.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/051223

[Ilvane]

We all know it's about the money, sadly. I wish it wasn't so, because he really was a "fixture" on the team.

Bleh..hopefully we'll find someone good.

-Angela

[SayGoodbye]

There's not enough swear words in my vocabulary to describe how I feel about that.

:mad:

[Skirmisher]

I think that article is a load of hooey.

It makes what I feel is an extraordinarily innapropriate analogy of a sports superstar to an everyday person.


For instance, let's say your buddy has spent eight quality years working for a law firm. He loves everyone in his office, loves his job, never imagines going anywhere else ... and then another law firm comes swooping in and offers him a partnership and big bucks. And let's say he asked you for advice. Well, you know what you would do? You would tell him to take the big bucks. You would. I'm telling you ... you would. And when he does so, you would praise him for doing the right thing for his family. That's the way life works. With sports, for whatever reason, we expect athletes to do the right thing ... for us, not for them. When they choose themselves, we act like they mailed us a pile of dog poop. Somehow they're the ones being selfish.

Now while the fact that he WILL be making more money is a given, to compare the difference in lifestyles that a regular person being made a partner in a company to Damon making 6 million more a year for a couple of years is in my opinion just not valid.

[Trinitis]

He got offered more money. Anyone would say yes.

And that analogy is very fitting IMO. The difference in money making don't mean much. He has, lives, and desires a more expensive lifestyle then an average person. Just because he can afford it does not make him a bad person. Thats the same as saying Bill Gates should make all his software free because he's already rich. Things don't work that way.

[Chaddy]

Fuck him. I'm totally appauled. He was the man last season and now to go to the fucking NY Yankees makes him suck more cock than a Vegas whore when the Casino's are paying off at 200%.

[Edited on 12-26-2005 by Skirmisher]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Trinitis
He got offered more money. Anyone would say yes.I would have to consult longshot's posts to a find an appropriately acerbic response.

Red Sox - Yankees is bigger than Nintendo - Sega was.
Thats the same as saying Bill Gates should make all his software free because he's already rich. Things don't work that way.That's a perfect analogy if 40 million dollars is the same as 0 dollars. I'm no economist (Ganalon, little help?) but I'm guessing it isn't.

[Trinitis]

No matter how much everyone bitches, baseball is his JOB. If you are working for someone (no matter the wage), and someone else wants you to do the exact same job, for more money. You go. Thats the way things work.

If you don't go, you have personal reasons. He has no personal reasons in staying. That does not make him a bad person.

Edited to add : If you want to bitch about something in pro sports, bitch about how much they get paid in the first place.

[Edited on 12-26-2005 by Trinitis]

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Trinitis
...
And that analogy is very fitting IMO. The difference in money making don't mean much. He has, lives, and desires a more expensive lifestyle then an average person.

I must strenuously disagree. There most definitely IS a difference. It lies in just how much of a difference that amount of money will have directly in changing the lifestyle and financial future of his family.



Just because he can afford it does not make him a bad person. Thats the same as saying Bill Gates should make all his software free because he's already rich. Things don't work that way.

I hope you are not somehow mistakenly inferring that I said anything like that.

He has every right to go change teams.

I have every right to not see him as making a very well thought through decision.

[Warriorbird]

:shrugs: His career could end at any moment. Extra money is extra money. He wasn't from Boston initially, was he?

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
I have every right to not see him as making a very well thought through decision.

Ok leading into this responce, i'm going to admit a few things up front.

I hate sports. I don't like baseball, I can hardly stomach football, and I can't stand golf or soccer.

Beyond that, how was this not thought through well on his part? His job paid X per year. He got a job offer from another company for X+y per year.

If Joe Shmoe from Acme INC gets offered X ammount more money to work for AMCE company..why should he not take it? Why would you care if he did or not? His change in job has no effect on your life.

Why does his?

[Latrinsorm]

Peyton Manning commercials aside, people who work for Acme Inc. don't have fans (and kudos on backpedaling from your exorbitantly overstated example). Baseball is more than a job.

You don't understand what signing with the Yankees from the Red Sox in this day and age means. This isn't something you should be ashamed of, but don't come in here spouting off about how "that's the way things work". You have no frame of reference.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
You don't understand what signing with the Yankees from the Red Sox in this day and age means. This isn't something you should be ashamed of, but don't come in here spouting off about how "that's the way things work". You have no frame of reference.

It doesn't mean that much at all. It apparently only means something when it's someone in the boston spotlight. I didn't see anyone crying when the yanks signed Embree or Bellhorn or when Boston signed Mike Stanton for that matter or hell even David Wells wasn't that huge a deal.

[Edited on 12-26-2005 by Tijay]

[Latrinsorm]

Stanton, Embree, and Bellhorn were all designated for assignment before being signed. Wells went through another team first (stint with the Padres, which I'll admit I had forgotten about too) like Boggs before him. Damon was a free agent being pursued by the Sox and the Yankees. Big, big difference.

[Trinitis]

He was a free agent. That means he can sign with whom ever he wants. Why does his life anger you people so much? He changed to a different team. WHO CARES.

I'll never understand how people can allow sports to cause actual, physical and emotional HATE and anger towards others. I find it amusing that we give people shit for exuding these emotions from actions on a online game, but screaming and insulting real life people at a baseball game is acceptable.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Trinitis
Why does his life anger you people so much?This has been explained to you at least twice. You don't care about baseball. Fine. We get it.

Nobody's talking about doing physical harm, so you can put that straw man away. Further, nobody mentioned hate in this thread so far. Sadness, disgust, and one indeterminate emotion, but no hate. I find it amusing that you're comparing the actions of fictional characters to the actions of an actual person. You might as well suggest for everyone who kills thieves IG to take a page from Bernard Goetz' book IRL.

[Trinitis]

I'm comparing the actions of someone who don't effect your life, to the actions of someone who don't effect your life. Fictional or not, this person has NO BEARING on your life. Yet, you hate him for something he did as a personal choice. People are calling this poor guy every name in the book. And for what? Because he opted to play for another team. This shit happens every year. People change teams constantly. There is no reason for anyone to be upset about ANYONE changing teams.

I've stated this over and over. Pro sports players have no effect on your life, unless you allow them to.

As stated, yes, I dislike pro sports. Mainly, it's because of the sports themselves. But a large portion of it is due to the amount of money these sports players make. But that right there is the key.

*If pro sports are not a job, or about the money, there would not be contracts in the millions of dollars.*

People who are offended, upset, or angry about the fact that a pro sports player is more interested in the money then the sport, need to wake the fuck up.

If you want to watch sports where it's about the sports, try little league.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Trinitis
Yet, you hate him for something he did as a personal choice.Not only do I not hate Mr. Damon, no one in this thread but you has suggested that hatred factors into it at all.
There is no reason for anyone to be upset about ANYONE changing teams. Once again, Red Sox - Yankees is a unique case.
If pro sports are not a job, or about the money, there would not be contracts in the millions of dollars.And as I've already said, baseball is MORE than a job. That's why hundreds of thousands of people come out every day in season to cheer them on. Comparing baseball to GemStone is downright silly.

[Hulkein]

It's sports, you're supposed to hate him for this if you're a Sox fan.

[Trinitis]

No, you THINK Red Sox and Yankees is a unique case. You seem to forget there are other rivals in pro sports. The fact is, there is nothing unique about this case. You just feel that way.

As for no one hating him? Yah right. Have you read the comments stated about this guy basically everywhere (news papers, Radio shows, web sites, posts [check above], etc)? It's crazy what they are labeling this guy.

I think this sums up my thoughts pretty damn well.

And I quote,

"Fans can be incredibly unrealistic and naive. We expect athletes to maintain an unyielding loyalty to their current cities, even if they have been playing there for only 3-4 years. We expect them to understand the "importance" of something like the Sox-Yanks rivalry, to think exactly like us, to say to themselves, "Wait, I can't switch sides to the Yankees, that's our arch rival!" We expect them to feel hatred for the teams that WE don't like, ignoring the fact that rivalries thrive solely because of the fan bases, because we're the ones keeping them alive. And we expect them to turn down Godfather offers out of loyalty to their fans, only we'll turn on them the moment they start struggling.

How is that fair? Last season, Damon watched from afar as some Boston fans turned on Millar, Embree, Bellhorn, Foulke and even Schilling -- five key members of the Greatest Comeback In Sports History -- and probably wondered to himself, "Wait, I'm supposed to remain loyal to them?"

It's a two-way street. We always forget this. When our favorite players struggle and we start grumbling and bitching, the message always remains the same: "Hey, he's making a ton of money, I spend my hard-earned money on tickets, it's my right as a fan to boo." You never hear the word "loyalty" mentioned. Ever. These guys are only as good as their last few games. History rarely matters, which is fine, because that's part of the bargain. Most players seem to understand that. But if that's the case, why should we expect them to remain loyal to us?"

[Sean]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Stanton, Embree, and Bellhorn were all designated for assignment before being signed. Wells went through another team first (stint with the Padres, which I'll admit I had forgotten about too) like Boggs before him. Damon was a free agent being pursued by the Sox and the Yankees. Big, big difference.

Theres a big difference between an organizations attitude towards it's players and it's fan bases attitude. But since you've decided to revisit the parameters of your original statement and disqualify those who were designated by their organization how could we forget the great Ramiro Mendoza controversy... I mean hell he switched from the yankees to the red sox and then back to the yankees once he was granted his free agency...

Not to mention he has what? 5 world series rings (4 yankees 1 red sox)?

[Edited on 12-26-2005 by Tijay]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Trinitis
No, you THINK Red Sox and Yankees is a unique case. You seem to forget there are other rivals in pro sports.Yankees - Sox has been around for over a hundred years. We're talking PB-class epochs here.
And we expect them to turn down Godfather offers out of loyalty to their fans, only we'll turn on them the moment they start struggling. Right, no Boston fan stuck through struggle. WTF did you find this guy?
Originally posted by Tijay
But since you've decided to revisit the parameters of your original statement It's always been ok to go from the Red Sox to somewhere else to the Yankees, even if that somewhere else is unemployment. Damon went directly, hence the (on it's face equivocable) statement "signing with the Yankees from the Red Sox" implies no middleman.
how could we forget the great Ramiro Mendoza controversyCalling it a controversy makes my point for me.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm


how could we forget the great Ramiro Mendoza controversyCalling it a controversy makes my point for me.

It might if it were true and there was a controversy. But alas it was just sarcasm.

[Chaddy]

Red Sox Yanks rivalry is hands down the nastiest in sports. The fact of the matter is he would've made plenty of money if he had stayed with the Sox it's not like 10 mil a year is poverty level. The Red Sox gave Damon his celebrity, not his autobiography or his stellar playing before them. He hit an environment with ample support from both teammates and fans. I realize and respect his ability to play the sport but what I don't respect is his lack of class. When he hits the Yankees and all the overpaid superstar bitches that make the team I doubt he'll feel half as comfortable as he did in Beantown, I also doubt he'll play as well in a situation like that.

[SayGoodbye]

Originally posted by Chaddy
Red Sox Yanks rivalry is hands down the nastiest in sports. The fact of the matter is he would've made plenty of money if he had stayed with the Sox it's not like 10 mil a year is poverty level. The Red Sox gave Damon his celebrity, not his autobiography or his stellar playing before them. He hit an environment with ample support from both teammates and fans. I realize and respect his ability to play the sport but what I don't respect is his lack of class. When he hits the Yankees and all the overpaid superstar bitches that make the team I doubt he'll feel half as comfortable as he did in Beantown, I also doubt he'll play as well in a situation like that.

Exactly what Chaddy said.