Pit falls to be expected by an 'average' rogue

[The-Cemm]

Would anyone mind sharing their perspectives and comments on the pit falls and roadblocks I might encounter with a dark elf Voln master rogue of the following training plan?

2x OHE, Brawling, Dodging, Hiding, Lockpicking and Disarming

1x Armor, Shield, CM, Ambush, PT, and Perception

1 spell every 5 levels

Goal of adding 20 ranks of arcane symbols and magic item use, 30 ranks of climbing and swimming, and enough Harness Power to support the spell casting by level 40

For instance, I understand that with only 2x lockpicking and disarming I should expect to only be able to open around 85% of my own boxes with 403 and 404 running.

Singling in CM, I'm going to lose out on half the extra AS points a doubling rogue would expect. Outside of the knowledge that I'll have 20 points less AS at 40th than a doubler would have, I'm not sure how that will really effect the reality of my gaming experience there.

What will the true costs of only singling in CM and ambushing and only doubling in hiding be when I am hunting in the hide and aimed shots style?

I guess I'm looking for the costs/benefits of my training plan so I can weigh how useful the spell training will actually be later on. Right now I'm in a 20th level comfort zone of Voln brawling certain undead like arch wights, so it is hard to get a really sound gauge of what is to come.

I have until mid-January to make final adjustments to my training path and such through fast migration.

[Unique]

Originally posted by The-Cemm
2x OHE, Brawling, Dodging, Hiding, Lockpicking and Disarming

1x Armor, Shield, CM, Ambush, PT, and Perception

1 spell every 5 levels


Alright.



Originally posted by The-Cemm
Goal of adding 20 ranks of arcane symbols and magic item use, 30 ranks of climbing and swimming, and enough Harness Power to support the spell casting by level 40



Good idea on the AS and MIU. I prefer AS if you can't quite squeeze both. Of course, yes on the climbing/swimming. Harness Power -- I would try get at least 1 rank of HP for each spell you know.


Originally posted by The-Cemm
For instance, I understand that with only 2x lockpicking and disarming I should expect to only be able to open around 85% of my own boxes with 403 and 404 running.


You'll have 404 by level 20 with your plan -- at that point you'll be able to pick ALL of your own boxes. As you get to the highest level hunting areas, though, you won't be able to pick all. Not something you have to worry about for a long time.


Originally posted by The-Cemm
Singling in CM, I'm going to lose out on half the extra AS points a doubling rogue would expect. Outside of the knowledge that I'll have 20 points less AS at 40th than a doubler would have, I'm not sure how that will really effect the reality of my gaming experience there.


Yeah, you're losing out on .25 to .5 AS per level compared to other rogue builds. However, I doubt you'll find AS to be an issue as long as you don't uphunt too much. A friend of mine who plays a rogue jokingly said he could still uphunt 10 levels if he went to 1x ohe. The sad thing is that he's pretty much right.


Originally posted by The-Cemm
What will the true costs of only singling in CM and ambushing and only doubling in hiding be when I am hunting in the hide and aimed shots style?


The AS loss isn't a huge issue for the first many many levels. Singling ambush means you'll have more trouble uphunting (less AS pushdown) and you won't aim as well. Maybe someone with a high level rogue who does 1x ambush can give more specifics.


Originally posted by The-Cemm
I guess I'm looking for the costs/benefits of my training plan so I can weigh how useful the spell training will actually be later on. Right now I'm in a 20th level comfort zone of Voln brawling certain undead like arch wights, so it is hard to get a really sound gauge of what is to come.


Benefits: You can ambush and you can use voln fu.

Drawbacks: Your physical skills are very weak. You'll be in brig around level 25-30 and chain hauberk around level 70, and 1x PT means you'll have less redux than a more physical rogue.

Spell training... eh. Cost to benefit, I prefer doing 2x CM for the AS and the CMANS. You can calculate this one yourself -- If you learn 25 spells (for 425) and convert those training points to CM, you actually gain more AS.

You're already on a tight training plan (two weapon styles and lockpicking). Adding spells on top of that, I think, stretches your physical skills too thin. If you want to keep the lockpicking I would stop learning spells at 404.


Unique.

[The Ponzzz]

>>2x OHE, Brawling, Dodging, Hiding, Lockpicking and Disarming

This is fine, but I disagree with dodging. Most people will disagree with me, but if your plan is to stay hidden, 2x dodge serves no purpose. I've actually dropped from 2.5x to 2x and 2x to 1.5x. I'm currently at 60 ranks and don't plan to train in it again till it's at 1.25x. I snipe though with thrown.

>>1x Armor, Shield, CM, Ambush, PT, and Perception

I'm big on CMs and perception. The AS isn't the problem though, it's the CMANs. You will want the benefit of being a square, seeing there are only two square professions and plenty of Semis. Perception helps with an assortment of things and is just a cheap skill to train in. Ambush gets better as you train higher, so 1x will do ya fine. And at 1x PT I would hope the answer to my first question is you are trying to stay hidden. 1.5x-2x is what I would suggest if you plan on being out in the open.

>>1 spell every 5 levels

This is truly a choice for those that wish to be locksmiths. You don't look like the locksmith build(meaning 3x picking/disarming). You can get 401, 103, 406 off just about anyone in most towns. And that's your first 45 levels right there, assuming that's the way you go.



>>Goal of adding 20 ranks of arcane symbols and magic item use, 30 ranks of climbing and swimming, and enough Harness Power to support the spell casting by level 40

This is all fine for utility I would suppose...

>>For instance, I understand that with only 2x lockpicking and disarming I should expect to only be able to open around 85% of my own boxes with 403 and 404 running.

At Level 39 I am able to open 100% of my boxes without 403 and 404 hunting vesperti and only 2xing. If you uphunt, well then you need to face the fact that you are uphunting and those aren't like level boxes. If I could self cast 403 and 404 I could pick well over Shan boxes though.

>>Singling in CM, I'm going to lose out on half the extra AS points a doubling rogue would expect. Outside of the knowledge that I'll have 20 points less AS at 40th than a doubler would have, I'm not sure how that will really effect the reality of my gaming experience there.

AS isn't a big deal really, if you are ambushing from hiding like level foes. It's really the CMs. At 40 you will be losing out on half the CMANs any other rogue or warrior could get, which is huge in my opinion.

>>What will the true costs of only singling in CM and ambushing and only doubling in hiding be when I am hunting in the hide and aimed shots style?

Like I said, the huge kicker here is all the points you blew into dodge. at 4/2 to double, it's not expensive really, but at 40 you could save a ton of points by dropping to 1.5x and seeing only a small DS change and a very small % change in actual dodge if you are caught in the open. 1x ambush will be fine at 40. I 1x ambush and was fine at 25. I hit most my aimed shots, but my training method is far different from most anyone. I hurl only.

Also I suggest not 1xing in armor, but rather training for armor you can be in. So at 30, have 30 ranks, at 40 have 40 ranks, and so on. It doesn't benefit anything really, because you are spending the points regardless. But from 30-40 you can play catch up with that 5/0 in other skills and then bank the points back up at 39. That's what I do. But I'm sticking with brig till I'm 70, assuming the armor hiding changes haven't gone through.

I honestly think if you aren't going for the locksmith approach, dump spells completely.

Do something like:

2x:

Edged
Brawling
CM
Hiding
Picking
Disarming

1.5x
Dodge
Armor
Perception
PT

1x
Shield

Grab 20 ranks of climbing and 10 of swimming by 40.

Grab all the Arcane Symbols and MIU you want to toy with.

Any other utility skill you wish from there and no Harness Power.



[Edited on 12-21-2005 by The Ponzzz]

[Alfster]

I noticed you forgot picking pockets.

[The-Cemm]

Well, I didn't really forget pickpocketing. Heh.

Is there any use for pickpocketing beyond be able to lift coins/gems/certain items from PCs? Can you pickpocket critters/NPCs? My vague recollection is that skill in pickpocketing didn't translate to defense against pickpocketing either.

[The-Cemm]

20 ranks of arcane symbols means I can read and cast up to 20th level spells from scrolls, right? What is the suggested amount of magic item use? Is it the same as scrolls (50 ranks to be able to use a ruby amulet, for instance)?

[Gan]

I have 10 ranks in MIU and can successfully use ruby amulets.

I would like to see Ganalon with up to 50 ranks in combined MIU/AS so he can wear more spells into OTF.

The CS of the combatants there is sick when you're not wearing many spells to help you combat the magic.

[The Ponzzz]

I made 225k from 9-11 last night pickpocketing the small park.

That being said, pickpocketing is great!

[Urinal Poops]

Originally posted by Ganalon
I have 10 ranks in MIU and can successfully use ruby amulets.



Ruby amulets require no magic item use.

[The Ponzzz]

With 20 ranks of MIU I couldn't activate 905...

[Gan]

Originally posted by Urinal Poops

Originally posted by Ganalon
I have 10 ranks in MIU and can successfully use ruby amulets.



Ruby amulets require no magic item use.

Really? Odd since its a magical item. But I suppose its got the same allowances as crystal amulets associated with it then.

Perhaps I'll try and use an amulet with invisibility or implode and see if I can use those. :whistle:

[The Ponzzz]

All old magic items that existed in the system required no MIU. People fought and fought for ruby amulets, because at first they did when all those changes were made with the Growing Pains releases... Items such as White crystals, blue crystals, black crystals, etc...

[Unique]

Originally posted by The Ponzzz
With 20 ranks of MIU I couldn't activate 905...


Huh, my rogue uses wizard and sorcerer wands and any imbed I have available just fine with 20 ranks of MIU. I'm planning to go up to 30-40 ranks eventually to handle spell burst areas.


Unique.

[The Ponzzz]

well I have low mental stats as well, I dunno...