Official: 740 Spell Proposal

[Fallen]

740 Proposal: Planar Shifting · on 12/9/2005 12:17:28 AM 2508


A long lost magic has resurfaced that allows sorcerers to contort the dimensional fabric of space within our world. A properly directed rift in space can be used to transport the sorcerer to any destination of his choosing within the known world. Woe is the sorcerer who does not properly protect himself from the ravages of such a violent shifting of physical space. A sorcerer desiring to undertake a planar shift must prepare a summoning circle, inscribed with the appropriate defensive runes, detailing his destination within the circle.

A sorcerer using this spell will be able to transport themselves to realms far away from his current locale. The difficulty of interrealm planar transference is such that the high quality chalk utilized for the protection circles often mitigates many of the risks associated with this highly unstable process. As a result, failure for interrealm transference is very low, but has a 50k cost attached to it, the market price of the chalk necessary for such a process.

Sorcerers using this spell to transport locally often choose to utilize a chalk whose cost is trivial as the process is somewhat easier than interrealm transport. However, cheap chalk often fails to mitigate many of the dangers and risks inherent in the process. As such, many casual observers of this powerful magic, have often commented that it seems intrarealm transportation is more difficult than interrealm transportation, unaware that this is mostly of the result of the vastly different quality of the chalks used.

Training in Sorcerous Lore: Demonology will make a sorcerer more adapt at using this type of magic.

Nilven

"I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said." -- Alan Greenspan

[StrayRogue]

I thought they had trashed this idea long ago?

[StrayRogue]

Oh and I bet it will be completely useless without lores, just like every other new sorcerer spell.

[Fallen]

For the big big transports, like Ta'Illistim to the Trace, I am guess it will need a ton of training. Cross-Realms is something, though. Not riding those damned carts.

[Chaddy]

I totally applaud the idea. Cross realms travelling should be made available in some form even if it did require outrageous amounts of lore training. By some form I mean outside of paying fifty dollars a month to go platinum. Speaking of, I'm sure the platinum girls clits will light on fire if and when they here of a spell allowing cross realm travels, they play off like they only pay for the RP but I'm sure if the gods lighten up their special features load even a smidge they'll be on it like a fat fuck at an all you can eat buffet.

[Asha]

Grrrr I hate the sorcerer shift thing.
Forget it man.
Make 740 something ACE like sorcerous attraction.

prep 740
cast at player.
Player finds you unbelievably attractive.

K forget about lores and training in AS and MIU.
If we have one more spell which makes us have to train in shit just so we can pay thousands of silvers to HOPEFULLY pull off shifting (and maybe die like 50% of the time) preparing more expensive shit I'll fucking go nuts.
When I became a sorcerer my main problem was training in FA to make 705 better.
If I have to pay and gather more expensive crap to make a spell work DEPENDING on lores (and probably guild skills) Ill kill someone.

All jokes aside, I'd just like a prep - cast spell.
Sorcerous attraction FTW

[Fallen]

Prep-cast simply isn't sorcery anymore.

[Asha]

Bollocks, prep cast simply isn't allowed to be sorcery anymore.

It pisses me off.
When we cast at anything it looks like shit.
you gesture at...

WTF they should make our spells look better before they nerf everything we do with lores and cost.

[Renian]

That spell looks to be hot.

But I don't play any sorcerers, so that makes me sad. Maybe they will make it castable on others with enough lore?

[StrayRogue]

I personally think any spell should be useable to some degree without any lore. That is not the case in the sorcery environment today.

[Asha]

Sorcery today is a dream Simu had ages ago, back when it was totally unviable.
Oh no fuck viable, lets have cost and lores.
Fucking stupid.
Make our spells look like spells first.
I'll keep on posting this point .. .
You gesture at . .
That's it . . (oh except for a dull grey beam)
:lol:

[Fallen]

Group transport is not apporvable for interrealm.

Nilven

"I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said." -- Alan Greenspan


-----

Ugh. Ah well. "Youz bitches is walkin."

[SpunGirl]

Sorcerers have been the bastard children of GS for far too long. I'm glad to see something like this in the works.

I'm boned though, because I'm full-up in necromancy. Le crie.

-K

[Fallen]

Perhaps if you use a summoning chamber intrarealm travel will still be possible.

[SpunGirl]

Maybe I should just wait for FIXSKILLS and go back to demonology. Not like I spend a lot of time re-animating things, I've only done it once or twice. First time was a Frost Giant, and I named him Ralph. Awwww.

-K

[Makkah]

<<Sorcerers have been the bastard children of GS for far too long.>>

:?:

[Fallen]

Demonology is FAR more useful. Animate dead is a nearly pointless spell. If you want the RP value of it, you can still animate things without any lore.

Demonology gives you Phase weight increases, 712 retribution stability, and soon will aid in 740 travel.

All Necromancy lore has going for it is 711.

[Edited on 12-10-2005 by Fallen]

[Asha]

Demonology is easily the coolest thing to ever be able to train in.
Still our spells are the only ones (apart from 400s) which need something cool after the initial gesture.

Or it would be ace if we could train in FA to make our knowledge of ripping things apart again.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Nice. I hope it's group friendly!

[Fallen]

Just for you, Sylvan...


Group transport is not apporvable for interrealm.

Nilven

Group transport is not apporvable for interrealm.

Nilven

Group transport is not apporvable for interrealm.

Nilven

Group transport is not apporvable for interrealm.

Nilven


No word yet on intrarealm group travel.

[Numbers]

This was first suggested like, 8 fucking years ago, and they're just getting to it now?

[Sylvan Dreams]

Originally posted by Fallen
Just for you, Sylvan...


Group transport is not apporvable for interrealm.

Nilven

Group transport is not apporvable for interrealm.

Nilven

Group transport is not apporvable for interrealm.

Nilven

Group transport is not apporvable for interrealm.

Nilven


No word yet on intrarealm group travel.

I should probably have read the entire thread first ;) Thanks.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Nevermind
Sorcery today is a dream Simu had ages ago, back when it was totally unviable.



When, exactly was sorcery unviable? 1991?

[Asha]

Dude when I wrote that I was so drunk I couldn't type without a special 'typing wand'.
Please disregard.

To be honest I remember a vague feeling of really needing to use the word 'unviable'. nomatter what context it was used in.

:?:

[Fallen]

The idea of a cross-realms transport was inviable in GS3..atleast that was what we were told.

[Shalla]

I think they should change it to

No lores, No Chalk = anywhere a transferance/gold ring will port to.
Lores, With Chalk = Cross realm

[Atlanteax]

I hope that the spell is designed so if a Sorceror has a "major failure" it's an automatic death... and a "minor failure" will remove two limbs.

That seems to be an appropriate tradeoff for what could potentially be a very powerful spell.

[Asha]

An expensive, fiddly, very powerful spell.

I would have preferred something incredibly savage and destructive to fight with.

[Syberus]

Nilven had a combat spell for 740 proposed first but said he couldn't make it work out to be powerful enough for the mana cost so he scrapped it.

[Fallen]

More info On 740:

------

People have asked some more info about the process. I'd rather not give away too much since I think part of the magic of Elanthia involves the discovery of these kinds of things when attempting to do them for the first time. I will share the following bits about the process:

The summoning circle needs to have a rune within it that specifies the target location. Any room that doesn't have teleport restrictions will be able to be targeted with this spell. This will be accomplished with some verb such as, "draw summoning circle with my chalk" or just "draw summoning circle." Each room within the game will have a unique rune identifier that will be used by the sorcerer to specify which room he desires. This unique rune will be drawn within the summoning circle. SENSE is used to learn the unique room identifier of a given room. These runes, once SENSEd, will appear in a special book that can be purchased at the sorcery guild or alchemist. Before you ask, I haven't figured out if the Enchiridion Valentia can be used to store known runes. Once a sorcerer figures out where he wants to go, he'll likely use a verb like "draw rune 32 from my book" to place it within his summoning circle. The drawing process will likely involve some minimal RT (~10 seconds). After the circle is complete, the sorcerer casts his spell and hopes he doesn't die.

A sorcerer will be able to use the runes from someone else?s book if he has access to the book.

Nilven

[Fallen]

Chalk making can be part of alchemy, if you so desire, but it is unlikely that making the chalk yourself will be able to cut off a significant portion of that 50k cost. The 50k cost is essential to balancing the spell. Making the lower quality chalk will also not be something I feel too many people would want to do via alchemy since the cost for low quality chalk would be trivial and not worth the time involved most likely. This may change though for the chalks necessary for 750.

I am not worried about this spell becoming obsolete with the pegasus system. I do not know the specifics for the pegasus system as it is not being handled by Warden?s team, but it is likely that it will involve a cost and time investment. The pegasus sytem will not be providing instantaneous transportation as far as I can remember; this will. It is really hard to compare this spell to a system which does not yet exist. If it so happens that the pegasus system becomes a significantly more attractive/beneficial/easier choice for interrealm transport, then I will lobby to have this spell made commensurate with that. The most likely scenario, however, is that an analysis of this spell?s cost/benefit will guide the cost/benefit of the pegasus system since this spell will predate that system.

Range of failures: I actually have a pretty interesting failure concept in mind for this. Muhahaha. I'm not ready to discuss yet how various skills effect the success of the spell. Only demonology will be able to reduce the rather small failure rate (~10%) for interrealm transport. I'm not ready to discuss how demonology or other skill factor into the success of intrarealm transport.

Nilven

[Fallen]

"The summoning circle needs to have a rune within it that specifies the target location. Any room that doesn't have teleport restrictions will be able to be targeted with this spell. " - Nilven


This spell is absolutely incredible. That is all.

[Renian]

I would have preferred something incredibly savage and destructive to fight with.

How about this?



750 - Melt Face

If the target fails the warding roll, the target's face is melted!!1

Training in Multi-Opponent combat will allow you to melt more faces per cast. For every 5 ranks, the number of faces melted increases by one. To melt multiple faces, use MULTIMELT instead of CAST.

Training in Sorcererous Lore - Demonology may cause a target's corpse to spontaneously combust a few seconds after death. Just because.


...That would actually be an amazing spell.


[Edited on 12-11-2005 by Renian]

[Syberus]

I'd imagine the corpse combustion would be a Necro thing though...

[Necromancer]

Sorcery lores aren't required for anything. With zero demon lore you can store as many 10 lbs phased containers as you want, you have a 75% chance of summoning a demon in a summoning chamber, your cloak of shadows will fire about 45% of the time, and your Torment will still be incredible.

With zero necromancy lore you can still animate a creature powerful enough to decimate your enemies (as long as you're willing to shell out 2k for a reusable claidhmore...tough I know), your pain infliction can still kill in four casts, and your blood burst will still cause damage. Toss in one single rank, and your limbs will animate and you will get health back from 701 (both extra abilities that aren't part of the core effects of these spells)

And, it appears, you will be able to teleport within your own realm quite safely and across realms with some risk to your life.

Add that to the fact that when TP costs were recalculated for GSIV, they specifically measured costs to give you enough TPs to 1x in lores and there's really nothing to complain about. If you aren't pumping anything into your lores, that's your choice, but all of your spells will still work just fine and any loss of utility you suffer is a sacrifice you made to pump your lore TPs into something else.

PS 740 will rock

[Asha]

So it's not a proposal and it's been decided that this is going to be in the 740 slot?
I agree it's a good spell.
But it's a shame it wasn't a legendary, dark, frightening and horrific spell to kil people with.
Oh wait . . it can kill sorcerers! :(

[Latrinsorm]

I wonder what the odds are of the sorcerer emitting a *BAMF* noise as they teleport.

[Kainen]

I want. I been training in my demonology.. talk about incentive to train more. This spell sounds awesome and dammit I want it. :D

[Fallen]

But it's a shame it wasn't a legendary, dark, frightening and horrific spell to kil people with.
Oh wait . . it can kill sorcerers! >>

750 Better be HEAVILY combat utility based.

[Kainen]

Sorcerers can kill someone in numerous ways. I kinda like that we might get a spell that does something equally nifty as render someone into gobbets of meat.

[Asha]

I agree with both your last statements.
Let's hope it all works out how it's promised. And not as moderately useless as 725 and 730.

[nocturnix]

Originally posted by Fallen
But it's a shame it wasn't a legendary, dark, frightening and horrific spell to kil people with.
Oh wait . . it can kill sorcerers! >>

750 Better be HEAVILY combat utility based.

Good thing is this will HOPEFULLY set us up so 750 is a combat spell. Ohhh the strange, amazing and crazy things 750 could be as an attack spell...

[Fallen]

The original idea for 750 is that the demons would have their own unique spell list which only they could use. THAT is how big the spell is supposed to be...Don't hold your breath.

[Jayvn]

I remember when demons and elementals were just a pipe dream.....oh wait... elementals still are :( cry

[imported_Eoghain]

Whatever. it's something.

[Fallen]

More Official Info.

-----


If such a spell existed in Elanthia, one would imagine that sorcerer spell ranks, discipline, aura, wisdom, elemental and spiritual mana control ranks would determine the success rate for the intrarealm version. Demonology ranks would allow a sorcerer, should he be willing to grace others with his skills, the ability to allow multiple people to use his intrarealm portal.

The success factosr for interrealm are as previously stated. Alchemists around Elanthia (outside of New Ta'Faendryl) have speculated in the past, that should they have reason to stock magical chalk, which they have not because no spells known to magi at large require it, that they might allow their customers to specify how many uses they want their puchased chalk to have.

Nilven

[Asha]

So . .
It turns out that this will work for more than just sorcerors.
That's total bullshit.

AND another spell which requires Demon lores.
More Bullshit.

[Syberus]

It's possible to transport a group intra realm if they sorcerer it skilled enough... Doesn't mean you have to take them with you...

[Asha]

Some vitriol about sorcerer travel guides..



[Edited on 12-14-2005 by Nevermind]

[Revon1]

Well, I personally think it is an amazing spell and sorcerers are the most interesting profession to play because of these new developments. I also think that wizards should have to do rituals in order to use their more powerful spells instead of just prep/cast. I just hope the ideas for the bard profession are as good as the one's proposed for sorcerers.

[nocturnix]

Holy crap this spell gives me the hugest boner ever.

I need to hall ass to 40 now, I'm close..37..woohoo! Seems like development at least on the processes/ideas related to this spell are moving along quickly. Nilven posts info on it fairly regularly which is a good sign. Wether or not its been approved to move on the the coding stage remains to be unkown but, I'm guessing its still pending approval from the higher ups.

As for those whining about needing demon lores, friggin go have sex with orc limbs...i'm tired of hearing about it. Yes, I'm glad i'm a demonologist but you'll be able to use the spell just fine without any ranks.

::busts out his chalk, makes a portal, steps through...peace, I'm out::

[Edited on 12-15-2005 by nocturnix]

[Fallen]

The intrarealm portion of the spell will have the same success/failure rate as Familiar Gate with the exception that I won't be including a level-based component into 740, which currently exists in 930. However, this level-based component in 740 has been replaced with a Mana Control factor that is equally weighted with the wizard's level factor.

To translate: a level 40 sorcerer that is 1x in Elemental Mana Control and 1x in Spiritual Mana Control will receive the same bonus from those skills to the success formula that a wizard at level 40 receives towards 930's success formula from his level. Any Mana Control above 1x in each lore (or any combination thereof that equals 2x, such as 1.5x and 1x or 2x an 0x) will grant additional help with success that is not achievable via Familiar Gate.

Some of you may have issues with this discrepancy. I will not be adding a level based component to the spell as I don?t believe in granting ability just based on level.

Nilven

[Fallen]

Gay. Nilven must have a character that gets bullied often. Skills are so damned transient with yearly fixskills. It takes no effort or skill to slide TPs around once a year. It does take effort to level a character. Yes you can buy one, though the people that do are in the vast minority.

[Numbers]

So, what's the translation of that?

If it's another bullshit thing of getting the spell at a certain level but not being able to use it reliably until you're 30 levels higher because it's only then you'll have the adequate skill, that'd be a bit annoying.

Also, with the monetary cost, does that only apply when transporting from one realm to another? Or will all transports cost money, even if it's just a few rooms away?

Oh yeah, I should also add, I don't think this spell should be getting its own spell slot. It should have been incporporated into implosion as originally suggested.

[Edited on 12-20-2005 by 3704558]

[Drew]

Originally posted by 3704558


Oh yeah, I should also add, I don't think this spell should be getting its own spell slot. It should have been incporporated into implosion as originally suggested.

[Edited on 12-20-2005 by 3704558]


Trade you 650 for it.

[Stunseed]

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by 3704558


Oh yeah, I should also add, I don't think this spell should be getting its own spell slot. It should have been incporporated into implosion as originally suggested.

[Edited on 12-20-2005 by 3704558]


Trade you 650 for it.

Seconded.

[Revon1]

Originally posted by 3704558
Oh yeah, I should also add, I don't think this spell should be getting its own spell slot. It should have been incporporated into implosion as originally suggested.

[Edited on 12-20-2005 by 3704558]

That is actually an excellent idea. Though there should still be some component about the spell that only allows 720 to be used for teleportation at level 40 or above.

[Numbers]

There's a big difference between semis and pures. Spell circles included.

In any case, the original suggestion for this spell was to draw a circle on the ground, cast an implosion inside the circle, and hop through.

Lore-wise, 740 is doing exactly the same thing. So why does it require its own spell slot?

[Fallen]

So, what's the translation of that? >>

Sorcerers are going to (depending on your training) spend extra TPs to get a spell to work as it should when other professions with teleporting magic get better as they level. Reason being is Nilven does not think level = power. I don't agree with him.

This won't hurt those that use runestaves, though those that don't likely do not 1x both controls. It is just a waste to do so.

[Numbers]

Meh. I gotta say, while I'm glad Nilven's around and that there's an active GM who's a GSL-whiz that has taken an interest in Sorcerers, I don't really agree with a lot of his decisions.

I've always been of the belief that you should at least be able to USE all the spells available to you. As it stands, if you don't have a minimum level of skill in a certain area, there are Sorcerer spells you'll never ever be able to use.

On the other hand, this seems to be a problem that's plaguing almost every magical profession in the game ever since GS4 came along. Probably explains why I've grown so disgusted with the game.

[Revon1]

Originally posted by Fallen
... Reason being is Nilven does not think level = power. I don't agree with him.


Im going to have to agree with Nillven. I think that a character should train to bring out the full potential of spell rather than just levelling and then automatically being able to use it perfectly. Its more realistic actually and it brings more diversity to the game.

[Syberus]

Not to mention we don't have much in the way of success rates or anything of that nature yet aside from a guessing 10% failure on a few things and a few clues about mana controls. I'd wait a while before I brought out the pitchforks.

[Fallen]

I didn't claim the spell was a complete loss, I was simply reporting the most recent development of the spell and my opinion of it.

What I don't like is that now many of us are going to have to heavily train in a relatively useless skill after 24 ranks or so to make sure we dont F up when we teleport.

Further, I see nothing wrong with attributing a natural increase of power/skill with the more levels you gain. It is the way Gemstone 4 is set up.

- You get +3 TD per level
- You get a certain amount of CS per level
- You get extra defense against maneuver attacks per level
- Your stats increase only when you level
- Certain hunting areas are ONLY available once you have obtained the proper level
- Guild skills become increasingly easier as you level (Less repetitions per rank)

All of these points indicate an increase of power as one gains in levels. Why Nilven has suddenly decided that shouldn't be true anymore is beyond me. Then again, he has also decided that spell components are all the rage, and I own half of a damned alchemy store.

He makes great spells, but he also overcomplicates the hell out things at times.

[Edited on 12-20-2005 by Fallen]

[Numbers]

Originally posted by Fallen


He makes great spells, but he also overcomplicates the hell out things at times.


That's the main thing I'm disliking about the new Sorcery. I was the first person to write a very barebones guide to Scroll Infusion during the GS4 beta. There have since been much better guides written, but that's besides the point. The other day I wanted to infuse a scroll, and I had to actually find my old guide and read through the whole thing to figure out what the hell to do. Not to mention the spell's changed since then.

And then, finally, half an hour later, after figuring out which runes I needed and making a whole bunch of runestones, I was ready to infuse a scroll. It took 10 minutes to infuse the damn thing, what with all the waving of the stones, putting one stone in my cloak, taking a stone from my backpack, reading first stone, reading second stone, reading third stone to make sure I was grabbing the right one....

My arthritic hands were weeping with carpal tunnel. I really shouldn't have to go through that much effort just to use a single spell in a MUD.

[Fallen]

Heh. I like Scroll Infusion.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Nilven
I will not be adding a level based component to the spell as I don?t believe in granting ability just based on level.
300 points for Nilven.
Originally posted by Fallen
Gay. Nilven must have a character that gets bullied often.You must have a small penis.
Why Nilven has suddenly decided that shouldn't be true anymore is beyond me.Kudos to Nilven for taking a step in the right direction. TD and CS should both have the level component removed. Stat growth should occur naturally over time. Level restrictions on hunting grounds have always been a poor joke.

[Revon1]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
... TD and CS should both have the level component removed. Stat growth should occur naturally over time. Level restrictions on hunting grounds have always been a poor joke.

agreed

[Fallen]

You must have a small penis. >>

Oh, pointless personal insult time? Alright, i'm game.

I bet it's just the right size to fit it in that bitch ass mouth of yours.


<<Kudos to Nilven for taking a step in the right direction. TD and CS should both have the level component removed. Stat growth should occur naturally over time. Level restrictions on hunting grounds have always been a poor joke. >>

What you want is an entirely different game. Core mechanics have always been based around level. One spell not using it is not a step in the right direction. It is an anomaly that will cost sorcerers to drop TPs into a fairly useless skill.

[Liberi Fatali]

Originally posted by Fallen

I bet it's just the right size to fit it in that bitch ass mouth of yours.

Brilliant! Latrinsorm is quite the hermaphrodite, so calling him/her a bitch seems fitting. S/he moreso takes the role of the female.


Originally posted by Fallen
What you want is an entirely different game. Core mechanics have always been based around level. One spell not using it is not a step in the right direction. It is an anomaly that will cost sorcerers to drop TPs into a fairly useless skill.

You, my good sir, have taken the words right out of my mouth. Grand response.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Fallen
Core mechanics have always been based around level.Something always being the case is not justification for something continuing to be the case.
It is an anomaly that will cost sorcerers to drop TPs into a fairly useless skill. Nobody's twisting your arm.
Oh, pointless personal insult time?The fact that you didn't even notice what you did is probably the saddest part of all. But let me enlighten you: homophobic remarks != cool.

[Revon1]

Originally posted by Fallen
What you want is an entirely different game. Core mechanics have always been based around level. One spell not using it is not a step in the right direction.


I know that GSIV is based on level but im trying to emphasize that there would be more diversity between professions if it wasnt ALL about level.


Originally posted by Fallen
It is an anomaly that will cost sorcerers to drop TPs into a fairly useless skill.

This statement is not fact but rather opinion. Just because the skills needed to perform certain spells arent part of your training plan doesnt mean it is useless.

[Syberus]

I've been 1x in both controls ever since the switch to GS4, the skill is important to too many spells and skills to piss away at only 24 ranks.

[Fallen]

I've been 1x in both controls ever since the switch to GS4, the skill is important to too many spells and skills to piss away at only 24 ranks. >>

Do you use a runestaff?

[Fallen]

>Am I to take this to imply that a level 40 (with 1x in both controls) Sorcerer who is otherwise trained similarly to a level 40 Wizard will have basically the same capabilities with the spell that the Wizard would have? Because in that case, this spell doesn't sound daunting. Wizard Gate was starting to get decent around that level from my readings.<

Yes, exact same success rate.

>Oh, will Encumbrance hinder this spell, if that is even askable at this time?<

No, encumbrance will have no effect on this spell.

Nilven


------


Good news here. Encumbrance is a bitch. Glad to hear it.

[Fallen]

The impact to wizards from level, and the impact to sorcerers from mana control, is small. Wizard and sorcerer spell ranks play a much greater role, respectively.

Nilven >>

Good news as well. Shame I don't do more than 2x spells, but atleast spell ranks are useful.

[Syberus]

yes, I use a runestaff. When I used a sword and shield, and when I used a bow.. I was always 1x.

[Fallen]

Heh. Back then, DC was likely our main spell.

[nocturnix]

I dont understand what you people(Fallen and others) are bitching about.

Nilven is saying you WILL be able to use the spell, at least intrarealm version with little to no training.

Also, you cant expect mutant characters to be good at every fucking thing. It's part of the tradeoff, if you're gonna swing/shoot(not use a runestaff) youre not going to be as adept at magic. Plain and simple. Makes perfect sense.

You cant have your cake and eat it too.

[Fallen]

Nilven is saying you WILL be able to use the spell, at least intrarealm version with little to no training. >>

This announcement, along with the weight of Mana Control as well as other aspects for determining success were released after my original comments.

The changes against level accounting for skill with the spell has NOTHING to do with game/spell balance, so your argument in that light is faulty. It has everything to do with how Nilven views mechanics and the attribution of power/skill in GS. Though I disagree, it seems many do not. I fully acknowledge that point.

[Edited on 12-21-2005 by Fallen]

[nocturnix]

Originally posted by Fallen
It has everything to do with how Nilven views mechanics and the attribution of power/skill in GS. Though I disagree, it seems many do not. I fully acknowledge that point.


So you're saying that being able to use the extra-difficult portion of this spell(inter-realm) should be based on level as apposed to skill.

Spoken like a true mutant who wants to have his cake and eat it too.

Nothing against mutants by the way, I play a few and love them, I just dont complain about not being as good at magic as pures and the reasoning behind why I cant be as good.

...also no offense Fallen, I'm just tired, bored, and pissed that I'm still at work and not looking forward to fighting my way home through manhattan with the fucking bullshit transit strike.

[Edited on 12-22-2005 by nocturnix]

[Syberus]

Originally posted by Fallen
Heh. Back then, DC was likely our main spell.

This was less than a year ago when I hunted OTF for the sword/board before I capped, and a few months ago when I wanted to play with a bow for a few months.

[Fallen]

<<<<Spoken like a true mutant who wants to have his cake and eat it too...also no offense Fallen, I'm just tired, bored, and pissed that I'm still at work ...>>>

No, I am not looking to eat any cake. I dislike cake. I don't mind debating with others as so long as they are able to control themselves, and keep on-topic.

As I said before, I do not want anything out of the ordinary for the spell. I just want it based off the criteria that is applied for Wizard's Gate. Level is an additional aid towards mastery of that particular spell. I am not going to bother with in-depth justification as to why levels should aid in spell work, as I have some 7? 10? years of GS mechanics history to support my reasoning.

Nilven has stated that it is due to his beliefs that the requirements for the spell are being set as they are, not because of any balance of power for 740. As I had just said in a previous post, I disagree. Not because of my "Mutant" brawler, but because I dislike how he often holds sorcerers to a standard in terms of spell costs, components, training, and complexity that simply doesn't exist for other professions.

With Nilven's most recent statements, however, the argument becomes rather pointless. He says that Spell ranks are the primary factor in determining the success of the spell, not Mana Control ranks.

At my level, and with the recent announcements, I don't really care one way or the other. I simply feel for the poor saps who don't use a runetwig, and that will have to 1x in TWO skills that are basically worthless after 24-30 ranks. I .5x each, and have never had any issues with any spells and/or abilities. I infuse better than most, my DC gets back mana a-plenty, I can resurrect without issue, I get enough mana back per pulse, ect.

I am not complaining about this spell idea. I simply voiced my opinion on one particular cost/requirement aspect. I believe that even with .5x in lores I shall be able to use this spell to its fullest potential. It helps that I will likely be 85ish when the damn thing gets released (Though not as much as my levels should, heh), and believe it is a fine use of the last of our coveted spellslots.

[Fallen]

This was less than a year ago when I hunted OTF for the sword/board before I capped, and a few months ago when I wanted to play with a bow for a few months. >>

I know ... a bit off-topic (foot meets mouth), but why the hell do you think you need to 1x TWO mana controls, especially if not for runestaff DS? Do you really need that much mana back per pulse? You must be Voln.

[Edited on 12-22-2005 by Fallen]

[Syberus]

I am in Voln yea. In GS3 I always singled in it too, just something I think Sorcerers should train in I guess.. I dunno. Being able to send to a relative rock is nice, and it helps a lot with infusion as well as animate dead. Just a quirk with my characters I guess, they're also always 1x perception too.. just habit I guess.


Wanted to add that I also get back over 100 mana a pulse.. it has its benefits.

[Edited on 12-22-2005 by Syberus]

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Fallen
I've been 1x in both controls ever since the switch to GS4, the skill is important to too many spells and skills to piss away at only 24 ranks. >>

Do you use a runestaff?

I 1x in both controls also. No runestaff, though. I 1x brawling and shield.

[Fallen]

I am in Voln yea. In GS3 I always singled in it too, just something I think Sorcerers should train in I guess.. I dunno. Being able to send to a relative rock is nice, and it helps a lot with infusion as well as animate dead. Just a quirk with my characters I guess, they're also always 1x perception too.. just habit I guess. >>

It aids in being mana efficient when infusing scrolls. A pretty meaningless benefit when your level bajillion, Syberus. I will freely admit that I am not knowledgeable of the in's-out's of AD. I think the spell is worthless. I get along perfectly fine without it, and never thought to myself..."God, I wish I had a cumbersome square to order about at the moment" during my hunts. /rant

I suppose that yes, if in voln, mana is more of a luxury. Voln, however, sucks. Case in point.

P.S.

1x Perception rocks. I will be going 2x soon enough.

[Edited on 12-22-2005 by Fallen]

[Fallen]

I 1x in both controls also. No runestaff, though. I 1x brawling and shield. >>

Bah! You're all nuts. That, or in Voln. I hope to god it's for RP.

[Jonty]

Spoken like a true mutant who wants to have his cake and eat it too.

What the hell is the point of having cake but not eating it?!

[Jonty]

Originally posted by Fallen
I 1x in both controls also. No runestaff, though. I 1x brawling and shield. >>

Bah! You're all nuts. That, or in Voln. I hope to god it's for RP.

lol, yeah my sorcerer's in voln also.

[Edited on 12-22-2005 by Jonty]

[Fallen]

What the hell is the point of having cake but not eating it?! >>

1. Baker
2. Parties
3. Even further off-topic

[Trinitis]

Adredrin, when I had him, was fully 1x'ed in both mana controls, and 1x'ed in perception, AND 1x'ed in Phy Training.

[Fallen]

Adredrin, when I had him, was fully 1x'ed in both mana controls, and 1x'ed in perception, AND 1x'ed in Phy Training. >>

1x Phy Training as a sorcerer? Geez, and they call ME a mutant.

[nocturnix]

Originally posted by Fallen
What the hell is the point of having cake but not eating it?! >>

1. Baker
2. Parties
3. Even further off-topic

I dont fully understand the expression either, but thats not the point! I'd also like to add...

4. for smooshing in people's faces. at parties. or if, by chance you're a clown performer, in which case you might be smooshing it in your own face.

What the hell is so good about perception anyways? Am I missing something?

a. finding things
b. seeing those dirty thieves
c. some spells and crap...?
d. uhh...yo momma.

[Fallen]

What the hell is so good about perception anyways? Am I missing something? >>

It is tied in to a great many skills, and suspected to be in many more. Ultimately, it is a RP skill, though it has one major function in mechanics: Ambushing DS. The more you have, the less of a pushdown your DS will suffer when you are ambushed. This helps both in PvC and PvP.

[Hakonne]

Originally posted by Stunseed

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by 3704558


Oh yeah, I should also add, I don't think this spell should be getting its own spell slot. It should have been incporporated into implosion as originally suggested.

[Edited on 12-20-2005 by 3704558]


Trade you 650 for it.

Seconded.

Trade you WoF for either of those.

Hak

[Drew]

Originally posted by Hakonne

Originally posted by Stunseed

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by 3704558


Oh yeah, I should also add, I don't think this spell should be getting its own spell slot. It should have been incporporated into implosion as originally suggested.

[Edited on 12-20-2005 by 3704558]


Trade you 650 for it.

Seconded.

Trade you WoF for either of those.

Hak


Yeah, but WoF is an open spell list, and 10 ranks lower than 650. Anyway, most rangers consider 140 better than 650 so if we didn't already have access to it, we'd take it.

[Stunseed]

< Yeah, but WoF is an open spell list, and 10 ranks lower than 650. Anyway, most rangers consider 140 better than 650 so if we didn't already have access to it, we'd take it. >

Personally, I'm trying to decide if I even want 140. I'm considering stopping at 640/130 and going for le superdux.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Stunseed
< Yeah, but WoF is an open spell list, and 10 ranks lower than 650. Anyway, most rangers consider 140 better than 650 so if we didn't already have access to it, we'd take it. >

Personally, I'm trying to decide if I even want 140. I'm considering stopping at 640/130 and going for le superdux.

Way ahead of you there good buddy, Chiv has already got 640 and 120 and he's done. Right now I'm going for super ambush, meaning I want him to hit where I'm aiming as much as possible, but in the future I think I'll join you in the redux camp.

[Stunseed]

< Right now I'm going for super ambush, meaning I want him to hit where I'm aiming as much as possible, but in the future I think I'll join you in the redux camp. >

A shame I'm aiming for 1.5x BEFORE removing spells in Ambush and PF.

[Fallen]

Here is an update for the spell. I was on vacation, so the news is a bit old.

----

People were somewhat excited about the prospect of opening up runebook shops. We believe that the gathering of runes is a process that every sorcerer should undergo for himself. Therefore, we will be seeking to cultivate a closer bond between a sorcerer and his runebook by requiring him to bond to any book that he wants to use for recording purposes.

I want to foster a sense of trust and cooperation amongst sorcerers. As such, bonding will only be required to record runes within a book. Although a sorcerer can draw runes from any book he desires. As such, sharing your runebook with someone else will be an act of sincere and extreme trust. Pity the sorcerer who foolishly lends his book to an untrustworthy fellow, if said person should decide to steal the entrusted book. The lending sorcerer will then have to bind to another book to rebuild his repository of runes or obtain someone else's book for use (in which he would not be able to scribe). The thief will be able to make use of the book that was lent to him but will not be able to scribe any additional runes within the book. If the sorcerer should later retrieve his stolen book, he will be able to make use of it, but will not be able to scribe in it if he has already bonded to another book. If he does not break his bond he will be able to continue scribing runes in the stolen book should he retrieve it.

The bonding process will be relatively simple and painless. We don?t intend to make you go through a lengthy bonding process, we only intend to make the act of providing another sorcerer with runes an act of trust. There may be a short wait involved between the time when a sorcerer breaks his bond to a book and the time when he can bond to another book.

Nilven

[Fallen]

Very odd. I am having trouble seeing what I post unless I double post. I think my entries are sticking, however, so I will just drive on.

----

>If a sorcerer unbonds with a book after an untrustworthy fellow makes off with it... can the thief then bond with it and scribe new runes? In other words, will we be able to create runebooks, and sell them fully functional? Rather than just giving them to someone to use but not scribe in after?<

If a book has been unbonded with it, can no longer be scribed in by anyone.

>Also, if one was to steal, or buy a runebook... could they have more than one unbonded? Since I'd assume you can only bond to one at a time.<

You can have as many unbonded books as you want. But you can only bond to one book at a time.

Nilven