Venezuela sending cheap oil to Massachusetts

[Gan]

QUINCY, Massachusetts (AP) -- Thousands of low-income Massachusetts residents will receive discounted home heating oil this winter under an agreement signed Tuesday with Venezuela, whose government is a political adversary of the Bush administration.

Citgo Petroleum Corp., a subsidiary of Venezuela's state-owned oil company, will supply oil at 40 percent below market prices.

It will be distributed by two nonprofit organizations, Citizens Energy Corp. and the Massachusetts Energy Consumers Alliance.

The agreement gives President Hugo Chavez's government standing as a provider of heating assistance to poor U.S. residents at a time when U.S. oil companies have been reluctant to do so and Congress has failed to expand aid in response to rising oil prices.

U.S. Rep. William Delahunt of Massachusetts, a Democrat, met with Chavez in August and helped broker the deal.

REST OF THE STORY (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/22/venezuela.us.fuel.ap/index.html)
________________________________

And thus the gauntlet is thrown against the powerful US oil oligopoly. Although I question the motives of Chavez and his subsidiary Citgo (political or humanitarian, or both?). I applaud Rep. Delahunt (D) for arranging the deal to benefit his constituents.

It will be interesting to see if there is a response from the US companies that are providing heating oil. In the direct interest of competition it would make sense for the US companies to step up to the plate, because the fall out would be disasterous for negative press/buying influence on their chief product - auto petrol. Especially if peterol stations are in close proximity and with matching prices (greater encouraging substitute good(brand) seeking).

I hope we dont see government intervention in the form of tax breaks, etc. I want the burden to go directly onto the US oil producers in order to see what response they produce.

I'm also interested to see if and how Chavez will build this into his anti-Bush rhetoric.

[Hulkein]

That's awesome. I too question his motives, but either way it's benefitting Americans.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Hulkein
That's awesome. I too question his motives, but either way it's benefitting Americans.

Obviously, his motives are to entice us into using even more oil, thus bringing the crumbling of our economy at peak oil, and allowing Venezuela to become the next superpower.

Or, he just knows it is good PR.

Jorddyn

[Hulkein]

Yeah, good PR is a motive. As opposed to genuinely caring for the poor...........

[xtc]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Yeah, good PR is a motive. As opposed to genuinely caring for the poor...........

I don't think the poor care about the motives. Lots of famous people brag about their charity involvement to boost their image but the bottom line is, if it benefits the poor people, who cares?

[Gan]

Originally posted by Jorddyn
Obviously, his motives are to entice us into using even more oil, thus bringing the crumbling of our economy at peak oil, and allowing Venezuela to become the next superpower. Jorddyn

I dont think the US needs enticement on additional consumption. We wrote the book on it. Offering lower priced oil to the screened/poor would not add much more consumption considering what their peak ability to consume already is in its limited capacity.

Now offering a 40% decrease on oil across the boards to the US would be like giving an alcoholic half ownership in a bar and then worrying about his condition.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Ganalon[
Now offering a 40% decrease on oil across the boards to the US would be like giving an alcoholic half ownership in a bar and then worrying about his condition.

I think you are in the running for the best line on PC in 2005.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Yeah, good PR is a motive. As opposed to genuinely caring for the poor...........

I would bet that a significant percentage of donations/goodwill offerings in this country (especially corporate) are not done because the donor cares about the recipient. They are done for appearances. And, all things considered, good PR is a lot less evil motive than world domination.


Originally posted by Ganalon
I dont think the US needs enticement on additional consumption. We wrote the book on it. Offering lower priced oil to the screened/poor would not add much more consumption considering what their peak ability to consume already is in its limited capacity.

Now offering a 40% decrease on oil across the boards to the US would be like giving an alcoholic half ownership in a bar and then worrying about his condition.

Way to ruin my funny :P

Jorddyn

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by Hulkein
Yeah, good PR is a motive. As opposed to genuinely caring for the poor...........

I don't think the poor care about the motives. Lots of famous people brag about their charity involvement to boost their image but the bottom line is, if it benefits the poor people, who cares?

Which is exactly why I said it's awesome for the American's who are benefitting from it.

What the fuck, can you read?

[Edited on 11-23-2005 by Hulkein]

[xtc]

Originally posted by Hulkein

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by Hulkein
Yeah, good PR is a motive. As opposed to genuinely caring for the poor...........

I don't think the poor care about the motives. Lots of famous people brag about their charity involvement to boost their image but the bottom line is, if it benefits the poor people, who cares?

Which is exactly why I said it's awesome for the American's who are benefitting from it.

What the fuck, can you read?

[Edited on 11-23-2005 by Hulkein]

Then why bring up motive?

[Sean of the Thread]

Prolly sending it straight to the Kennedy's private storage tanks..

[Ilvane]

Citizen's energy is actually run by Joe Kennedy.

They do great work, taking care of poor and older folks..so this is great for our state.

I'll take that kind of PR any day.

-A

[Back]

The idea that he is doing this for publicity is true, but just for his own personal benefit? I doubt it.

The move does not surprise me. He spoke of the same thing for Katrina refugees. This is his modus operendi, championing the poor.

Its looking like South and Central America, and the Carribean, are forming a solidarity against the US. It shouldn’t surprise anyone considering how the US has treated the countries on its own hemisphere.

That influence, by this gesture, expands right into the US.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Ilvane
Citizen's energy is actually run by Joe Kennedy.

They do great work, taking care of poor and older folks..so this is great for our state.

I'll take that kind of PR any day.

-A

There is another Joe Kennedy besides that Mafia loving sleazeball, that was willing to negotiate with the Nazis if they took over England?

[Ilvane]

Yep, he's Bobby's son.

http://www.citizensenergy.com/Company_History.htm#PERSONNEL

-A

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Backlash
The idea that he is doing this for publicity is true, but just for his own personal benefit? I doubt it.

The move does not surprise me. He spoke of the same thing for Katrina refugees. This is his modus operendi, championing the poor.

Its looking like South and Central America, and the Carribean, are forming a solidarity against the US. It shouldn’t surprise anyone considering how the US has treated the countries on its own hemisphere.

That influence, by this gesture, expands right into the US.

I do not for a moment believe that Chavez is championing the poor of the US as he is trying to make the Bush and the US look bad.

While I may loathe the shrub as much as most, Chavez is an opotunistic politician who has plenty of poor people in his own country who he could spend that money on who need it more than the vast majority of "poor" people here in the US if that was his true aim.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
I do not for a moment believe that Chavez is championing the poor of the US as he is trying to make the Bush and the US look bad.

While I may loathe the shrub as much as most, Chavez is an opotunistic politician who has plenty of poor people in his own country who he could spend that money on who need it more than the vast majority of "poor" people here in the US if that was his true aim.

Very well put... That's my opinion as well.

[Back]

Is oil offer kind or cunning? (http://www.sptimes.com/2005/11/24/Worldandnation/Is_oil_offer_kind_or_.shtml)


Chavez told the Argentine newspaper Clarin last month that Venezuela has "a strong oil card to play on the geopolitical stage." He said, "It is a card that we are going to play with toughness against the toughest country in the world, the United States."

Its a smart move. What exactly does he have to gain from NOT making as much money as he could and helping out the poor no matter where in the world they are?

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Backlash
Its a smart move. What exactly does he have to gain from NOT making as much money as he could and helping out the poor no matter where in the world they are?

He gets to show people that he can stand up to the big evil US empire.

For someone who seems to be trying to think outside the box on this you are allowing the wool to be pulled over your eyes if you think that that alone is not a huge political draw in much of the world.

Paint the US as the devil and you as the lone champion of right standing up to them.

It's nothing new, he's just the newest and the closest both geographically and economically to pull it in a while.

I have no issue with socialism in general, but Chavez is not a proponent of that, he is a proponent of Chavez.

[4a6c1]

Make no mistake, Chavez is benefiting himself. Its politics. His oil card is the only card he has to play. Its not new Chavez policy either.

[Back]

I dunno, sounds like a whole lot less fortunate people are gaining from it regardless if he is doing for himself or not.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Backlash
I dunno, sounds like a whole lot less fortunate people are gaining from it regardless if he is doing for himself or not.

And the mafia and drug cartels always know to keep the small community immediately around them thinking they care also to better insulate them from informants.

I guess as long as they give out free turkeys at thanksgiving that makes all the other theft, extortion, numbers rackets and muders okie dokie.

Hey, take the oil, just don't be so foolish as to think there is ANY interest on his part to actually "help" any US poor.

[4a6c1]

Originally posted by Backlash
I dunno, sounds like a whole lot less fortunate people are gaining from it regardless if he is doing for himself or not.

I am sure your perspective is common one.

Which is why this will affect decisions made in Washington on broader issues concerning Venezuela.

[Edited on 11-24-2005 by JihnasSpirit]

[Latrinsorm]

I don't get how this is Chavez Sticking It To The Man, but cheaper oil for poor people ftw.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
I don't get how this is Chavez Sticking It To The Man, but cheaper oil for poor people ftw.

I will assume you are being serious and try to explain how I see it.

Chavez is conducting a running public relations battle with the US. He portrays the US government as this unfeeling militaristic emperialistthing. The US in his statements cares not at all for any of its citizens especially the less well off and will expend them in wars and forget them in times of crisis such as Katrina.

In this particular instance he is trying to show how uncaring the US government is to it's own poor and is willing to let them freeze to death, but HE and his would be socialist brothers DO care and are willing to lose out on potential profits in the interest of helping the oppressed poor of the US.

He gets good press among his followers in his own country and in sympathetic areas around the world for both his charitable gesture and for daring to stand up to the monolith that is the last remaining superpower, the United States.

I may know it's all garbage, but it's still effective..

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
In this particular instance he is trying to show how uncaring the US government is to it's own poor and is willing to let them freeze to death, but HE and his would be socialist brothers DO care and are willing to lose out on potential profits in the interest of helping the oppressed poor of the US. And people honestly buy into that?

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

And people honestly buy into that?

I think people in the US vastly misunderstand the way that the US is viewed by more of the world than they would like to believe.

Which is to say that many do, yes.

[Back]

I guess I just fail to see what exactly he is trying to do thats so bad. Obviously his policies are helping the less fortunate. But to what end? Is he trying to rule the world as a dictator by helping helping people?

[Gan]

Time will tell if he has machinizations beyond just helping the less fortunate.

One would question if he is making comparable efforts internally, and finding sources to see that arent controlled by his office might be a challenge.

I'm glad he's doing this gesture. I hope to see how it will affect the US oil oligopoly and their price controlling behavior. Nothing like a little competition to spur market equilibrium in the petrolium sector.

Just dont put this guy on a pedastal. He's far from sainthood and should be treated first as a politician and perhaps in years to come as a humanitarian. Time will tell the true nature of his motives.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Ganalon
Time will tell if he has machinizations beyond just helping the less fortunate.

One would question if he is making comparable efforts internally, and finding sources to see that arent controlled by his office might be a challenge.

I'm glad he's doing this gesture. I hope to see how it will affect the US oil oligopoly and their price controlling behavior. Nothing like a little competition to spur market equilibrium in the petrolium sector.

Just dont put this guy on a pedastal. He's far from sainthood and should be treated first as a politician and perhaps in years to come as a humanitarian. Time will tell the true nature of his motives.

I completely agree. Motives yet to be determined and of course this guy has proven to be a complete douche. Forget his motives.. what about Delahunt's motives???

LOL @ pedastal.. this guy deserves far from it.

[Gan]

Originally posted by Xyelin
LOL @ pedastal.. this guy deserves far from it.

No doubt, I think the guy is a fucking lunatic. Thats why I'm questioning his motives. I'm also patient enough to let time tell what he's really up to.

And as someone else stated earlier: if unfortunate people get to benefit from someone else's political machinizations, then so much the better. God smiles in mysterious ways on some people.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Ganalon
And as someone else stated earlier: if unfortunate people get to benefit from someone else's political machinizations, then so much the better.

Evil done in the name of Good is still evil. Good done in the name of Evil is still good.

Raven

[Gan]

BUMP...

Anyone have an update on this? I tried Google'ing it but all that came up were november 2005 stories of the impending shipment.

Was the shipment ever received? Its like this story fell off the face of the earth. :(

[WhiteTrash]

I read somewhere Citgo was being investigated for supplying heating oil cheap.

[Sean of the Thread]

BUMP...

Anyone have an update on this? I tried Google'ing it but all that came up were november 2005 stories of the impending shipment.

Was the shipment ever received? Its like this story fell off the face of the earth. :(


Teddy thought it was olive oil and drank it for a morning meal and lunch. He had a reasonable dinner however.

[Ravenstorm]

Here's something.

http://english.eluniversal.com/2006/04/10/en_pol_art_10A692273.shtml

Google news 'citgo venezuela' for more.

[Gan]

Excellent, thanks Raven.

[Stanley Burrell]

I'm sure that I can't be the only individual who instantaneously had, "C.R.E.A.M., muthafucka'!" pop into their mind.

Stanley Burrell.