Corporal Punishment

[Latrinsorm]

From another thread:
I think half the reason we have so many spoiled brats these days is b/c parents don't spank enough. That's a different topic entirely though. For the purposes of this poll:
Physical punishment means any act of physical contact meant to discipline that does not constitute abuse. Yelling does not count. Breaking an arm does not count.
Agree/disagree with means in general / as a practice. Wanting to smack the brat at Stop and Shop who won't STFU about the Gummi Bears does not necessarily mean you agree with physical punishment as a practice.

Elaborate as desired.

[Gan]

"It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child right, but it does take a parent to stand up to the kid; and smack their little behinds when necessary, and say "NO!" "

Andy Rooney.

I believe the above represents my viewpoint sufficiently.

[Wezas]

I was always threatened with spanking. The threat seemed to do the trick.

[Souzy]

My parents use to beat the shit out of me for no reason or if I was behaving "badly". I wouldn't beat my child, but however, I would reprimand my children if they do something I've told them not to do several times. Take away all their fun things, make them watch the news and ONLY the news would be good punishment (possibly the weather channel as well), other punishment that doesn't involve anything abusive would be my choice, but if all else fails and they keep on repeating that bad behavior constantly, I would not mind slapping their hands with a stick, lolz.

[Latrinsorm]

My older brother was spanked once (I did not learn of this until a couple years ago). Neither my younger brother nor I were ever, nor was there ever a threat. I was the best behaved as a baby/child (naturally, as I am the best brother), but I would say that there is zero discerable moral difference between our behaviors now.

Conclusion: As my older brother does not come from significantly different genetic stock and my younger brother at times appears to be his clone, corporal punishment is not a necessary practice in the case of my family.

Theories:

A good child will generally be good. The threat of physical violence or violence itself is neither necessary nor beneficial. Education, on the other hand, is both.

A bad child will either continue to be bad or straighten up until the threat of physical violence is no longer viable. If physical violence was capable of changing peoples' underlying character, the Middle East would be extremely peaceful.

A morally neutral person does not exist by the age when physical punishment can morally be an option.

Thus, physical violence is at best a temporary solution that causes more problems than it solves.

Reasoning:

Corporal punishment was at one time far more accepted than it is now. Unless those who never supported it had many times more offspring than those who did, the recipients of corporal punishment were generally not inclined to perpetuate the practice to their children. Either the practice of corporal punishment itself failed in raising a child "right" or those most familiar with its lasting effects found it distasteful. Therefore corporal punishment is either practically or morally flawed.

[Souzy]

It all depends on how the parents raise their child. Children only know of what they are taught from others. A parent/parents has to teach their child of what is truely right and wrong.

I wish my parents made me watch the news or the weather channel as punishment. That would've made me never do anything wrong again.

[AnticorRifling]

Beatings will continue until morale improves.

[Gan]

hahaha

I have that on the back of my Sanibel Island T-shirt I got from Florida.

[Latrinsorm]

Well I guess I really am a hippy.

[ElanthianSiren]

I agree with Eric.


-M

[Warriorbird]

Well I guess I really am a hippy.
-Latrinsorm

Only when you're not being an apologist for the Bush Administration or Christian extremism.

:)

It's not that bad.

[Edited on 11-19-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Wezas
I was always threatened with spanking. The threat seemed to do the trick.

Thats the ticket.

I think I may have been spanked once or twice ever, but knowing that the threat was not an idle one made the ears perk up a little quicker, I'll tell you.

[Vixen]

My mother rarely if ever to my memory spanked me. But I was the boring child. I have seen it work both ways.
I honestly think it has a lot to do with what kind of child you have. For some children, a time out is terrifying. And for some crazy kids, a spanking is like... oooh big deal... scary. <sarcasm>

I hope that when my son gets to the age where right and wrong is discernable, that I will not have to threaten with the spanking. But that isnt to say that I would never use it, if it was the only thing left to try.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Christian extremism. :) It's not that bad.That's what I'm talking about. :saint:

[HarmNone]

I was rarely spanked, and I rarely found the need to spank. I could usually come up with some fiendishly wicked punishment that worked better, as could my parents. Nevertheless, I think a lot depends on the kid. What works well for one might not work at all for another.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Spanking is only for the extreme cases. My daughter's now 4 years old and she's only earned one spanking.

Seeing her run towards a road and not stopping when I told her to earned her her only real spanking... for scaring the shit out of me.

[Ravenstorm]

I actually don't remember if I've ever been spanked or not though I do recall it as having been threatened at least once. So at the least, it was a last resort. Which is fine. If all else fails, use it as a last resort. Just make certian you're not angry when doing it.

Raven

[Chastittee]

Christ, I'm almost afraid to reply, but since you originally quoted me.....

Not only did I receive spankings, but my threats weren't just for a spanking..it was a spanking with a wooden spoon.

My kids have received more spankings than I can count..and some have actually been with the wooden spoon. (usually because they had a diaper on and a hand just wasnt cutting it)

Don't get me wrong. I don't rely solely on spankings..but I also never was stupid enough to believe a 2 yr old could sit down, talk things out, and reason with you..like I've seen many of the preschool parents do. I mean, I seriously watched a kid bite his mother...she continued her conversation with me til she finished her point then politely said "excuse me a moment", bent down and said, "Now Sam, why did you bite Mommy? Were you frustrated with me? You know you can't do that." :wtf:

If my kids bit me, they got a hell of a lot more than a "Are you frustrated?" HE'S 2 YEARS OLD! He doesn't even know what "frustrated" means!! :flail:

And to whomever mentioned the weather channel as punishment...Yeah, it didn't work. My son LOVES the weather channel.

I've also tried time outs, taking away toys, rewarding good behavior, taking away fun things like computer time or time outside...When those things don't work, they get a good whoopin.

SO um, yeah...I got spanked as a kid and it scared the shit out of me and I was good after that. Just took threats. My kids must just be pretty thick-skulled cuz it just doesn't seem to matter sometimes.

Anyhow, I have better things to be doing than going off on another rant,...

[Chastittee]

BTW: I'm looking for a house one county over from where I live now. With your permission, they can still dish out corporal punishment at school. I'm bettin there's a shitload less brats over that way.

[Jazuela]

I was like your kid when I was a kid. Discussion didn't work, nor did "modern politically-correct" punishments. There was no such thing as "time out" and computers didn't exist. They'd say "Go to your room!" and I'd say "Make me!" Whatcha gonna do NOW, bucko? They'd say, "I said LIGHTS OUT!" and 5 minutes after they went back downstairs I'd turn my light back on and roll my eyes and go back to reading my Nancy Drew book. "If you don't come home before curfew, you'll get no TV for a week!" resulted in my shrugging and reading another Nancy Drew book. I really didn't give a damn, I was gonna do it my way, and unless they physically stopped me, they couldn't stop me.

So - I got spanked. Bare palm only though, and it never hurt me (though it broke mom's blood vessels because she has delicate skin, heh). Eventually I straightened myself out, got tired of all the effort I had to go through just to be a rebellious kid. I don't have any of my own, partly because I wouldn't want to have to deal with any kids who were as bratty as I was. But if I did, I wouldn't feel a lick of guilt in spanking them when I felt it was appropriate.

[Danical]

I didn't bother actually reading any of the threads . . . however . . .

The incredibly retarded amounts of behavioral psych classes I have taken clearly demonstrates that positive punishment works on the lowest of life forms best. If you think your kid is a fucking idiot then you'll probably use it - but kids are a lot smarter than most give them credit for.

I, however, would never ever use it because there are better means of manipulation. It takes a lot more work, but the end result is better. If done right, you instill intrinsic motivations to do the right thing.

The problem with most punishment today is that it is by definition the removal of behaviors in the subject. If you only use punishment then you're setting yourself up for disaster. One must also couple punishment with a type of reinforcement - a behavior to take the place of the one you are trying to remove.

[Daniel]

i don't think I could ever manage to hit a lil girl if I had one, therefore when I do impregnant someone she will undoubtedly be a bitch.

As for guys, hell yea I'll be whooping his little bad ass as it's a family tradition for the child to beat his father's ass when he gets older. Therefore, I need to get in my licks while I can.

[Killer Kitten]

Originally posted by vulvamancer
The incredibly retarded amounts of behavioral psych classes I have taken clearly demonstrates that positive punishment works on the lowest of life forms best. If you think your kid is a fucking idiot then you'll probably use it - but kids are a lot smarter than most give them credit for.

I, however, would never ever use it because there are better means of manipulation. It takes a lot more work, but the end result is better. If done right, you instill intrinsic motivations to do the right thing.


I wasn't exactly a stupid kid, but physical punishment and threat of more generally kept me in line.

I'm also curious, could you elaborate a bit on these better means of manipulation? How DO you get that two year old to stop being a complete shit without popping them? Most of the ones I've seen appear incapable of participating in a meaningful dialogue.

[Gan]

Ditto,

I have not noticed any ability for reason or thinking in the abstract until my son got closer to 3. Until then it was action/reaction to help establish a learned behavior.


(yes, I'm a B.F. Skinner fan)

[Edited on 11-20-2005 by Ganalon]

[Brattt8525]

I know with my two chidren I have to use different methods of punishment. My son has been spanked a total of 3 times in 4 years my daughter? hell you could take a 2X4 to her butt and she would not bat an eyelash. The only way to get through to her is by trial and error because what worked yesterday won't work today.

Punishments for her include standing in the corner, having to take tuna fish sandiwchs to school and taking away tv/toys. I have to keep a step ahead of her as she is consantly looking for new ways to push my buttons.

[Danical]

It's not about abstraction so much as it is about being creative with your manipulations.

It's documented in numerous books, both CD and behav. psych alike.

Or you can check psychinfo or psych database for all the research on it if you have access.

Punishment works, don't get me wrong. Punishment is more immediate but it has the smallest impact in the long run. Kids in a study said that if they could live with punishment because they had learned to do the behavior in question w/o detection. Not that they abstained from the behavior as the frequency was still just as high. They just became smarter about when to do it and when not to - not that doing the behavior was wrong.

Additionally, I think it's particularly cruel to punish your child before they can think abstractly because they don't know any better. They are still in their egocentric mode of thinking. Punishment without understanding of why one is being punished leads to some big problems.

But that's about as much as I'll say . . . the rest you can find for youself.