Oil Company Profits Up, Money In Your Pockets Down

[Back]

So we are paying $1 more a gallon since 2003. Guess how the profits are going for the petroleum companies despite the shortages we are paying for?

Article here (http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20051026/ts_latimes/takingaimatoilsriches;_ylt=AlqgErTI42UI9_J2JHCFynh 34T0D;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--). Yeah, record profits. Exxon is something like $8 Billion dollars in THREE months.

Whats the point of this post? Thats up to the reader.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Backlash
So we are paying $1 more a gallon since 2003. Guess how the profits are going for the petroleum companies despite the shortages we are paying for?

Article here (http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20051026/ts_latimes/takingaimatoilsriches;_ylt=AlqgErTI42UI9_J2JHCFynh 34T0D;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--). Yeah, record profits. Exxon is something like $8 Billion dollars in THREE months.

Whats the point of this post? Thats up to the reader.


Don't like the high prices? Buy less gas.

[Artha]

Let's burn shit.

[Gan]

I saw on the local news that the average profit was 28 billion and something like 12 milllion an hour of refinery production time...

I think if the oil companies are smart, they will re-invest their profits back into their customer base.

While I believe in non-regulated markets for the most part, the demand price hike that we experienced this past summer will eventually come back to bite the big oil producers; as already I've seen stimulation in the market for alternative fuel/alternative transportation step up. I mentioned this earlier this year in a thread where we discussed alternative means of transportation and the dependancy on fossil fuels for mobility.

The only thing is, that with big oil's resources, they will have an easy ability to reinvest those profits laterally into the latest and greatest alternative methods and thus continue the cycle. It will be interesting to see the customer backlash effects of this long term.

[Back]

A little test for Ganalon or any other economist out there.

Is forecasting economics more or less reliable than forecasting the weather?

[Apotheosis]

When forecasting ANYTHING, there is generally a range you fall within, not generally exact figures (unless you are selling an exclusive/extremely niche product).

From what I understand, it's not terribly possible to factor in external factors that marketers have no control over. Just need to be able to react to them when they occur.

I for one am incredibly pissed off about the gas prices/profits. BS on the supply/demand issue, too. I am not buying it. More alternitive energy!! I'm for it.
If you have to buy gas, buy BP. They're at least making solid attempts to become a green energy company, therefore, that's where my fuel $$ goes.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Ganalon
I saw on the local news that the average profit was 28 billion and something like 12 milllion an hour of refinery production time...

I think if the oil companies are smart, they will re-invest their profits back into their customer base.

While I believe in non-regulated markets for the most part, the demand price hike that we experienced this past summer will eventually come back to bite the big oil producers; as already I've seen stimulation in the market for alternative fuel/alternative transportation step up. I mentioned this earlier this year in a thread where we discussed alternative means of transportation and the dependancy on fossil fuels for mobility.

The only thing is, that with big oil's resources, they will have an easy ability to reinvest those profits laterally into the latest and greatest alternative methods and thus continue the cycle. It will be interesting to see the customer backlash effects of this long term.


You mean along the lines of Beyond Petroleum nee British Petroleum?

[ElanthianSiren]

Just by their stock options on earnings runup and sell it the day before. You get your gas money back, Backlash, and everyone is happy. :heart: capitalism.


-M

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Artha
Let's burn shit.

ROFL...

Not sure why.. but I just laughed out loud in my office.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash
A little test for Ganalon or any other economist out there.

Is forecasting economics more or less reliable than forecasting the weather?

Depends.. are you talking about predicting the weather tomorrow or next week.. or are you talking about the weather for June 12, 2051? If you are talking about your typical weekly forecast... less.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Yswithe
When forecasting ANYTHING, there is generally a range you fall within, not generally exact figures (unless you are selling an exclusive/extremely niche product).

From what I understand, it's not terribly possible to factor in external factors that marketers have no control over. Just need to be able to react to them when they occur.

I for one am incredibly pissed off about the gas prices/profits. BS on the supply/demand issue, too. I am not buying it. More alternitive energy!! I'm for it.


I agree. I believe that these huge oil companies are working in conjunction to artificially raise the price of gas and oil. This isn't a case of free economics.. this is a case of price gouging during times of disasters and price fixing.

Why is it that when the price of a barrel of oil goes up.. the price of gas immediately goes up the next day? The gas that is in the tanks is the same gas that the oil companies had in their possession weeks and months ago. Why is it when the price of oil drops, we see a drop in gas prices over an extended period of time?

[Apotheosis]

Well, I am pissed off. I want to do something about it.

I drive a lot less than I used to. I also carpool when possible.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Why is it that when the price of a barrel of oil goes up.. the price of gas immediately goes up the next day? The gas that is in the tanks is the same gas that the oil companies had in their possession weeks and months ago. Why is it when the price of oil drops, we see a drop in gas prices over an extended period of time?

Gas is priced on the cost of restocking. The companies slowly lower prices because they know you will pay it.


Originally posted by Yswithe
I drive a lot less than I used to. I also carpool when possible.

And this is why the price of gas will be less than 2 dollars a gallon within a year. People start altering their habits, buying more fuel efficent cars and demand drops while supply remains steady. A fine example of the market at work here and why I hope we make it through the current "gas crisis" without the government meddling in affairs and saddling onurous regulations on future automobiles.

[Gan]

Originally posted by Backlash
A little test for Ganalon or any other economist out there.

Is forecasting economics more or less reliable than forecasting the weather?

Its basically the same, you're dealing with fixed sets of data describing conditions of known behavior over a range of time. The only difference is we have found that with applied stimulus (monetary policy) we can alter future outcomes to somewhat follow known trends. Too bad we cant do that with the weather (except in the cases where cloud seeding has ocurred).

Here's a little joke I have always liked concerning the practice of economics:

An economist is an expert who will know tomorrow why the things he predicted yesterday didn't happen today. - Laurence J. Peter

[Gan]

And yes, I believe that gas prices during both Hurricanes were pushed higher than normal supply/demand pressures would have normally dictated.

I would like to see what the experts say about the oil price trends this past summer and if they think that price gouging occurred when applied to normal free market models.

[Gan]

Originally posted by Drew
A fine example of the market at work here and why I hope we make it through the current "gas crisis" without the government meddling in affairs and saddling onurous regulations on future automobiles.

That brings back horrible visions of Chrysler K cars and all the other 'fuel efficient' cars of the late 70's and early 80's. Lets hope it doesnt make it that far.

[Ylena]

"If you have to buy gas, buy BP. They're at least making solid attempts to become a green energy company, therefore, that's where my fuel $$ goes. "

Uhm..you're okay with buying gas from a company with a deplorable safety record? With a safety record that's so bad, they've had to commission a special committee to investigate them? I'm sure the families of those 15 dead and 170 injured folks from the Texas City facility really appreciate their commitment to green, and aren't at all bothered by their incompetence at operating their un-green facilities.

http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=2012968&contentId=701 1424

http://bpresponse.org/external/index.cfm?cid=946

[Back]

BP has had an aggressive marketing campaign to push their so-called “green” image.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Ganalon
And yes, I believe that gas prices during both Hurricanes were pushed higher than normal supply/demand pressures would have normally dictated.

I would like to see what the experts say about the oil price trends this past summer and if they think that price gouging occurred when applied to normal free market models.


This is kind of a misnomer because price gouging is part of a free market model. One that the market punishes, but still part of it.

[Apotheosis]

Frankly, it's a growing trend. People really are starting to care about the environment. Hard core leftists will still claim it's not enough. Hard core right wingers think that Chicken Little is screaming. Moderates (such as myself) see a problem, want to help address it, but are pragmatic enough to understand that change really does take time.

My first inkling of BP even pursuing green technology was the change in their logo. I didn't think about it at the time, but I sure as hell noticed it. Second clue. I was at a bar at Metro Airport (waiting to pick up a friend who's flight had been delayed). So, I'm sitting there bullshitting with the other folks waiting to pick up their friends. Find out a guy I am talking to is an employee of BP (either engineer or mid level executive, no real clue), but he was telling me about their investments and pursuit of developing sustainable/renewable alternative energy sources.

The key word here is sustainable economics.

Three years ago, while I was working for a media services company at the wonderful University of Michigan, I had the privelege of attending (because I was working) 16 conferences/lectures on sustainable economics. Brought by the (then) School of Natural Resources, and the UM Business School (one of the top MBA programs in the world), big thinkers, industry leaders, etc. from just about any imagineable business got together and discussed how to address these issues.

I suggest if anyone's really interested, they contact the UMBS and see if they can't get a copy of these lectures, because, believe me, I learned a helluva lot from them, and I think that those folks were doing more then just blowing smoke up people's asses.

If you think you might want to find copies or transcripts of the program, contact me, cause I know who to put you in touch with.

[Warriorbird]

That brings back horrible visions of Chrysler K cars and all the other 'fuel efficient' cars of the late 70's and early 80's. Lets hope it doesnt make it that far.

Eh. You can have fuel economy and a Republican style ride too. Buy a Mini or a Lotus Elise.

[Gan]

Actually my next vehicle is a Volvo S80 or SC90 whichever the wife prefers. Its the T-5 model with the 5 cylinder, offers plenty of HP:weight and good mpg.

I'm retiring the chevy truck to the farm at my Dad's place.

[Warriorbird]

:grins: You're the type of customer who buys from those Volvo dealerships with Starbucks inside. Now I get it!

[Gan]

HA!

Actually, CarMax is where I'm looking first. If I dont find it there, I'll look at demos from a Volvo dealership, unless I can get a next to zero financing for a new one. It all depends on what kind of interest rates are available next spring and whats available. I do know with all the flooding we've recently had I'm a little leery of buyng used at this point for the chance of getting a flood vehicle.

[Gan]

Bump.

I watched a story on the news tonight and saw a report on gas pricing. Something I did not know was that companies like Shell used what is called "zone pricing" where they base prices on the location of nearby competitors. Another factor that was eluded to but not admitted to was that prices at newely refurbished or newely constructed stations tended to be higher than the old neighborhood station.

I personally think that if zone pricing is the strategy that oil companies are using to base their prices on, and the inability for us to prove that there is collusion in spiking the pricing between gas suppliers, then not using a specific gasoline card to purchase fuel (thus limiting your ability to select) would be the most advantageous. This means using cash/debit or using a universal credit card such as Amex, Visa, M/C, etc.

[Warriorbird]

It tends to be. We've also got a rebellious gas station in my area that isn't going by suggested prices that I like to patronize.

[Some Rogue]

Shell's zone pricing sucks. I work for a company that owns 10 shell stations and one unbranded station. Even though we are only 30 or so miles east of St. Louis, we somehow get stuck in the Chicago zone which means our prices are higher than if we were across the river in Missouri who I believe is in the Gulf price zone. All the stations in the area get our gas from the same refineries but we get screwed because of how Shell draws it's map.

[Back]

If you feel like the oil companies are raping you for their own yachts you could always spend your money on people who really need it like Citgo, Venezuela’s nationalized gas company that gives the poor in Venezuela a chance at better living.

[ElanthianSiren]

Or you could walk more.

I'll walk to the store (just 2 miles or so...maybe 3), buy my stuff, and carry it home. It helps keep you in shape too.

-M

[Drew]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Or you could walk more.

I'll walk to the store (just 2 miles or so...maybe 3), buy my stuff, and carry it home. It helps keep you in shape too.

-M



Ummm.... how am I gonna level up in Gemstone if I'm walking?





FPS Doug: "WALK?!?? I've got wheels!"

[Gan]

Originally posted by Backlash
If you feel like the oil companies are raping you for their own yachts you could always spend your money on people who really need it like Citgo, Venezuela’s nationalized gas company that gives the poor in Venezuela a chance at better living.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA.

Citgo and support of that lunatic running Venezuela would be the last place I'd spend my money. I'd rather offer it to the station with the lowest price on the block and help my own financial situation. But of course you knew that would be my answer.

I'm finding the pricing techniques used by oil companies in how and when they set their prices very interesting. I think I'm going to do some more reading up on this.

[Warriorbird]

I'd be all about supporting "that lunatic running Venezuela" if he was actually making his people have lower prices. He isn't. Where's my free gas, Hugo? I didn't vote for Bush.

There's actually a local BP that's killing things price wise because they aren't buying in to "suggested" pricing. The guy's not making much on gas, so he's asking everyone to patronize his convenience store. The shelves are RAVAGED inside there.

[Back]

Originally posted by Ganalon

Originally posted by Backlash
If you feel like the oil companies are raping you for their own yachts you could always spend your money on people who really need it like Citgo, Venezuela’s nationalized gas company that gives the poor in Venezuela a chance at better living.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA.

Citgo and support of that lunatic running Venezuela would be the last place I'd spend my money. I'd rather offer it to the station with the lowest price on the block and help my own financial situation. But of course you knew that would be my answer.

I'm finding the pricing techniques used by oil companies in how and when they set their prices very interesting. I think I'm going to do some more reading up on this.

Lunatic? For helping the indigenous people of Venezuela? Oh, right, you are a capitalist. Fuck the people, make a profit.

Surprised you think the oil companies making profits while we pay higher prices is a bad thing.

[Gan]

Profits are a good thing, a healthy thing that every business owner would like to see, large or small.

Profiting by using predatory pricing during times of crisis or emergency crosses the ethical line in my book.

Your lunatic idol in Venezuela has much more blood on his hands than you care to admit, but seems to be the only role-model for your nationalistic socialistic ideals so you cling to him like the fart marks on your boxers. Nothing new really.

[Back]

Originally posted by Ganalon
Profits are a good thing, a healthy thing that every business owner would like to see, large or small.

Profiting by using predatory pricing during times of crisis or emergency crosses the ethical line in my book.

Your lunatic idol in Venezuela has much more blood on his hands than you care to admit, but seems to be the only role-model for your nationalistic socialistic ideals so you cling to him like the fart marks on your boxers. Nothing new really.

So you are telling me that the man who uses oil capital to help his people is worse than the man who rapes people for his own profits.

Whatever.

[Gan]

Yes, I'm calling THIS GUY - CHAVEZ - YOUR IDOL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_under_Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez) a lunatic.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Drew

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Or you could walk more.

I'll walk to the store (just 2 miles or so...maybe 3), buy my stuff, and carry it home. It helps keep you in shape too.

-M



Ummm.... how am I gonna level up in Gemstone if I'm walking?





FPS Doug: "WALK?!?? I've got wheels!"

You can't spare 45 mins to 1 1/2 hour out of your GS day once in awhile to take a walk? Damn. I'm sorry :(

-M

[DeV]

Politics aside. Citgo offers the lowest priced gas in Chicago at the moment. For the time being at least, I'm enjoying that.

[Artha]

Weird, Citgo is way overpriced around here.

Cheapest is ~2.21, Citgo is closer to 2.40

[DeV]

Damn, prices are still @ 2 something... $1.53 a gallon here just today.

[Skirmisher]

Odd, NJ tensd to have about the least expensive gas in the country and the lowest I think I've seen so far has been 2.35 at a no name station.

1.53? Thats darned good, heck that would have been good like two years ago.

[Warriorbird]

Damn, prices are still @ 2 something... $1.53 a gallon here just today.

Where the hell do you live? That sounds sane.

[Artha]

What I wouldn't do for 1.53/gallon gas...

[DeV]

Shit, my bad, it was $2.53 not $1.53. Lowest I've seen on the North side of Chicago. That was also with Shell and BP right next to the Citgo.

It seem my brains are still rattled from my game today.

[Back]

Just paid $2.49 at Shell. $25 bones to fill my tank. I only fill it once a month since I Metro to work every day. My utilities are paid for in my condo fee, but I run the ac/thermo as little as possible. I’ve minimized my impact on the issue and don’t feel the pinch as bad as others. Though I fear what my condo fee will be raised to next year.

Oh, and Gan, surprised you pulled out Wiki to make your case. They reference AI and AI’s site has information on many many countries. And we can leave it at that.

[Valthissa]

federal, state, and local government can't resist revenues rom the sale of gasoline.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/statistics/gas_taxes_by_state_2002.html

maybe this thead should be titled 'profits rise for oil companys, governments concerned falling demand will impact revenues'.

C/Valth

[Warriorbird]

All in it together.

[Edited on 10-31-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Gan]

Wikipedia was convienent and was less inflammatory than some of the other sources I pulled up that might be considered 'right wing'.

What is AI?

There was a previous thread where I pulled up more detailed info on Chavez. I can be un-lazy and get that info for you if you wish. :whistle: Its not like one has to dig deep to see what kind of leader/ruler/socialist dictator he is.

[Back]

I’m taking this part of the thread to U2Us so as not to belabor everyone else by being off-topic.

[radamanthys]

My girlfriend lived in Venezuela for a while. Watched a reported get stabbed by a Chavenista (Chavez supporter). Straight through with a machete thing, apparently. Things are definately not good there. She ended up getting removed by the state department, as with most of the other Americans on temp. visas like hers.

It's not a good situation over there.

[Gan]

Originally posted by Backlash
I’m taking this part of the thread to U2Us so as not to belabor everyone else by being off-topic.

= "I'm STFU because I never sent the U2U"...

:lol:

edited to add:
Finally got a U2U at 8:01 AM.
PS. Chavez really is the devil.

[Edited on 10-31-2005 by Ganalon]

[xtc]

Originally posted by Backlash
BP has had an aggressive marketing campaign to push their so-called “green” image.

My sister did her MBA in sustainability, and for her undergrad did a Bachelor of Science with a double major in economics and biology. She tends to lean left and her first job upon graduating her MBA was with BP in Sunbury (London). BP is the best of the bunch. Yswithe is correct.

When she started her MBA she couldn't have dreamed of working for an oil company, on career day she spoke with the representative for Imperial Oil (which is Exxon in the United States) and asked him what is Exxon is doing in the area of sustainability?, his answer "sustainability?
Are your serious? Young lady we are in the oil business”

[xtc]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Yswithe
When forecasting ANYTHING, there is generally a range you fall within, not generally exact figures (unless you are selling an exclusive/extremely niche product).

From what I understand, it's not terribly possible to factor in external factors that marketers have no control over. Just need to be able to react to them when they occur.

I for one am incredibly pissed off about the gas prices/profits. BS on the supply/demand issue, too. I am not buying it. More alternitive energy!! I'm for it.


I agree. I believe that these huge oil companies are working in conjunction to artificially raise the price of gas and oil. This isn't a case of free economics.. this is a case of price gouging during times of disasters and price fixing.

Why is it that when the price of a barrel of oil goes up.. the price of gas immediately goes up the next day? The gas that is in the tanks is the same gas that the oil companies had in their possession weeks and months ago. Why is it when the price of oil drops, we see a drop in gas prices over an extended period of time?


One word OLIGOPOLY

[Latrinsorm]

NFLOPOLY is worse.