Brig or hauberk?

[Andrath]

So I have this rogue, and I'm debating on wether or not to keep training him to hauberk or just train back down to brig and use the points elsewhere...

..is the difference in how hard you get critted big enough to stay on my current path to hauberk or drop back down to brig?

also, I know that stalking and hiding penalties are suppose to be implemented for heavy armor (chain,plate)....so ultimately which would be better, taking the low crits with hauberk or chancing the higher crits with brig and reusing the TP's..?

[Volstock]

I'd stick to metal breast plate if I were you.

[Drew]

Unless you are casting combat spells like e-wave. Metal breastplate is definately the way to go.

[The Ponzzz]

Until the hiding changes go through, which isn't in the near future, heavier armor is ALWAYS better for someone not casting spells.

[Bobmuhthol]

High level 3x dodge rogue = light armor. Keep your DS over getting hit all the time.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
High level 3x dodge rogue = light armor. Keep your DS over getting hit all the time.


So are you saying he should take brig over MBP? :?:

[The Ponzzz]

3x dodge doesn't add awhole lot of DS over 2x...

[Drew]

Originally posted by The Ponzzz
3x dodge doesn't add awhole lot of DS over 2x...


Yeah, I think it's a point sink, but on the other hand my main has 0 dodge, so that can be taken with a grain of salt.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<So are you saying he should take brig over MBP?>>

Is he an archer that has 0x shield and 3x dodge and is a significant level? Yes.

<<3x dodge doesn't add awhole lot of DS over 2x...>>

Back it up, please.

[Dwarven Empath]

I'd say 85% of rogues in OTF wears MBP.

I could be wrong it could be 95%

[The Ponzzz]

I 3xed dodge, at level 25 it was 5 more DS than 2x... And my evade was 5% higher...

[Bobmuhthol]

Assumed level 60, 20 bonuses on both stats, no shield. 3x dodge and brig DS, 2x dodge and brig DS. 3x dodge and MBP DS, 2x dodge and MBP DS.


Note: if a shield is used with the MBP DS, there will be a significant drop. That's why I say to use brig over MBP only if you have no shield use and 3x dodge.

[Bobmuhthol]

Forgot that the PC doesn't accept uploaded pictures.. god damnit..

The numbers for each scenario are 137/183, 94/126, 131/175, 90/121.

[Artha]

MBP ftw.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I 3xed dodge, at level 25 it was 5 more DS than 2x>>


High level 3x dodge rogue = light armor.

[Dwarven Empath]

3x dodge may equal light armor, but the cast of the izzers will rip you apart if your not in at least berk.

By the time your 73 to get in the OTF, you should be in MBP

Nuff said.

[Bobmuhthol]

What I'm talking about is pretty much archer specific, and I've yet to see the training plan for the rogue in question.

Archers shouldn't be in a position to be cast at.

Edited to make questions singular.

[Edited on 10-11-2005 by Bobmuhthol]

[Dwarven Empath]

Bob your right, if archers are trained well, but Izzers search..and search well.

That's what makes GS4 so good. Compress your training to how you fight. Get the lores you need, get the hiding you need.

Always made me cringe to see a ranger picking boxes. Unless he was 100.

Do it and do it right till ya 100, then get a hobby.

Unless you don't plan on being 100.

[Andrath]

no, Andrath is aimed towards 40 and maxes at 45, ill hit that cap then ill have my fixskills coming later on to redo my stats and skills...if not then ill basically stay 45 despite any training...what can you do when your main stats max? but sit around and learn to pick...lol

not looking for 100 at all, maybe on my sorc but i think my rogue will stick with the hauberk

[Kenn]

Hauberk = 70 ranks to train off the physical hinderence, chain protection head to toe.

MBP = 70 ranks to train off the physical hinderence, plate protection on your chest, abs and back, chain on your head, legs, arms and neck.

MBP > Hauberk

[Bobmuhthol]

I hope by 70 you really meant 80.

[The Ponzzz]

Yea, double and aug chain get the shaft...

[Lord Dainslef]

I have to agree with MBP. Not being an archer MBP is nice. :devilsmile:

Originally posted by Celember
Bob your right, if archers are trained well, but Izzers search..and search well.


No they don't. Only scouts even have a noticable amount of perception, and even they suck at searching & preventing hiding.

War Griffins are the only thing in OTF with good perception. Oh, and I guess gremlocks, although they aren't on par with the War Griffins, and they're confined to the ducts/east & west woods.

[Gan]

Ganalon is lvl 76 and with 80 ranks can wear mbp and yet hide/manuever as well as expected for his training. I tried brig (FGB) and even the lightest hit would put him into stun and behind the 8 ball. While being stunned around lower level critters might not be too bad, being stunned around highly trained/high level critters is almost an instant death unless you can absorb the damage they met out while you are trying to wait out the stun or manuever around it with stun manuevers.

I'll never go back to brig until I can afford to buy a set of brig with the same amount of damage/crit absorbption/padding as mbp.

[Vimp]

Thread Hijack!
I was told once that by 'wearing a shield' as opposed to using one that you actually got the benefits of plate protection on the back regardless of the armour you're wearing at the time, is this true?? If so, is manouevre hinderence affected in anyway??
:help:

[The Ponzzz]

Vimp, someone lied to you... When a shield is worn it offers nothing and is considered clothing for the shoulder...

[Vimp]

Well thats what I always originally assumed too, although I must say that I predominantly TWC so I wear my shield 99% of the time (carry one just in case), and this is the crunch, I can honestly say I do not remember the last time I've had a back bleeder, just doesn't happen. I've never tested any mechanics but experience hints that maybe there is some truth to it. I don't suppose anyone has numeric evidence either way?
:shrug:

[The Ponzzz]

Back only bleeds on a rank 3...

[StrayRogue]

To answer the question: neither. Wear MBP.

[grapedog]

Hauberk = 70 ranks to train off the physical hinderence, chain protection head to toe.

MBP = 70 ranks to train off the physical hinderence, plate protection on your chest, abs and back, chain on your head, legs, arms and neck.

MBP > Hauberk

So, the MBP by default gives you all that protection(plate on chest/abs/back-chain on head/legs/arms and neck) or do you have to get additional pieces of armor?

And MBP is 80 ranks of Armor Use to work off the RT associated with all of it?

[Celephais]

correct about MBP giving you the protection, if you do put on helm/greaves/vambraces you will end up with full plate hinderance.

RT reduction is rounded... so you only need 70, full 80 for both MBP and Hauberk to remove the manuever penalty.

[Amber]

From a purely rp perspective, I HATE to see folks who hide wearing anything over brig, and even that I find questionable.

[Drew]

I find hiding in MBP a lot more acceptable than hiding in brig. Full plate would be easy to hide in too, it's not loud or creaky at all. Chain would be much harder to hide in.

[Celephais]

I find hiding in MBP a lot more acceptable than hiding in brig. Full plate would be easy to hide in too, it's not loud or creaky at all. Chain would be much harder to hide in.

But the theory on MBP is you're wearing it over a chain haubrek, infact even in full plate you have chain between the joints. This is all of course from the Role Playing perspective.

[The Ponzzz]

For now, armor for squares will always be plate or bust. Of course, anyone can work with lighter armors as they like. RP, mechs, ect.

The only thing that WILL happen sooner or later is the hiding changes to prevent people wearing anything over brig and hiding. Those changes are not even detailed yet, nor is there an ETA.

You will have more mobility in lighter armor and have a higher raw DS with dodge. But you can take hits in the hauberk or MBP a lot better.

I say if you have the points to jump to MBP, do it. If not, stick to what you have and invest in padding.

[Drew]

But the theory on MBP is you're wearing it over a chain haubrek, infact even in full plate you have chain between the joints. This is all of course from the Role Playing perspective.


Not really, I know how the game mechanics treat it, but it's just your skin being that tough. MBP functionally only covers your chest. Someone in a metal breastplate could hide WAY better than someone wearing a real suit of brigantine.

[Celephais]

Not really, I know how the game mechanics treat it, but it's just your skin being that tough. MBP functionally only covers your chest. Someone in a metal breastplate could hide WAY better than someone wearing a real suit of brigantine.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one (or not). But your skin is not as tough as chain... all explinations of the way MBP functions in the game is as if you were wearing the metal plate over your chest with chain covering your arms/legs/head (I know it doesn't explain why bards can still sing in MBP better than haub). Cause functionally if it was your skin, it wouldn't matter if you took the mbp off, you should still have "chain" on the rest of you. If GS let you pick and choose coverage, then I could agree with you.

[Drew]

Well the show description on almost every piece of GM created armour is totally wrong then. I know how it works mechanically but when I look at someone wearing MBP in the game in my mind they are only wearing something on their torso.

[The Ponzzz]

RP vs Reality is really wrong in most cases.

Like low cut MBP. I'd just stab the bitch in the boob.

[Andrath]

Wow, it's been awhile since I've been on and I'm coming back soon. Playing on a friends wiz right now, so much has changed since I started this post and it's gotten every bit of attention I wanted lol...I have returned...lol..