Empaths get shafted.

[Drew2]

As you can see, empaths get the shaft.




>glance
You glance down to see a green vultite axe in your right hand and an enamelled celestial blue greatshield in your left hand.
>

****defensive, no spells*****
Seran swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +22 vs DS: +181 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +16 = -126
A clean miss.
>
You feel at full magical power again.
>prep 202
You trace a sign while petitioning the spirits to bestow their aid with the Spirit Shield spell...
Your spell is ready.
cast
>You gesture.
A dim aura surrounds you.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)
>prep 103
cast
Wait 1 sec.
>You don't have a spell prepared!
>prep 103
cast
You gesture while calling upon the lesser spirits to aid you with the Spirit Defense spell...
Your spell is ready.
>You gesture.
You suddenly feel more powerful.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>prep 120
You gesture while calling upon the lesser spirits to aid you with the Lesser Shroud spell...
Your spell is ready.
>cast
You gesture.
You suddenly feel a lot more powerful.
You are surrounded by a white light.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>prep 1109
cast
You concentrate while murmuring the simple, mystical chant for Empathic Focus...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture.
You center yourself and focus your concentration.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>prep 1130
cast
You concentrate while murmuring the simple, mystical chant for Intensity...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture.
You feel an intense resolve fill your mind, and concentrate on improving your efforts to guard yourself.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>stance def
Cast Round Time in effect: Setting stance to guarded.
>stance def
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
Seran swings a closed fist at you!
You block the attack with your greatshield!
>
Seran swings a closed fist at you!
You parry the attack with your axe!
>
****Defensive, with spells*****
Seran swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +22 vs DS: +244 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +38 = -167
A clean miss.

****AS when fully spelled****
>kill seran
Not fitting for one of the healing profession!
You swing a green vultite axe at Seran!
AS: +288 vs DS: +99 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +5 = +223
... and hit for 52 points of damage!
Slash to Seran's chest!
Breathe deep, it'll feel better in a minute.
He is stunned!
Vultite axe clashes with polished black leathers!
[STR/DU: 84/199 vs. 34/288, d100(Open)= 49]
Roundtime: 6 sec.

>
Seran swings a closed fist at you!
You block the attack with your greatshield!
>
Seran swings a closed fist at you!
You parry the attack with your axe!
>
Seran swings a closed fist at you!
You block the attack with your greatshield!
>

**Offensive, with spells. But Intensity takes off like 30 or something.**
Seran swings a closed fist at you!
AS: +22 vs DS: +152 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +95 = -18
A clean miss.
>
>skill
Tayre (at level 43), your skill bonuses and ranks are:
Skill Name | Bonus Ranks Goals Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 96 22 22
Shield Use.........................| 96 22 22
Edged Weapons......................| 144 44 44
Physical Fitness...................| 144 44 44
Arcane Symbols.....................| 90 20 20
Magic Item Use.....................| 90 20 20
Spell Aiming.......................| 144 44 44
Harness Power......................| 188 88 88
Spirit Mana Control................| 188 88 88
Spiritual Lore - Blessings.........| 96 22 22
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 96 22 22
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 96 22 22
Perception.........................| 96 22 22
Climbing...........................| 70 15 15
First Aid..........................| 188 88 88

Spell Lists
Major Spirit.......................| 25 25
Minor Spirit.......................| 33 33
Empath.............................| 30 30
Training Points: 29 Phy 8 Mnt
>info
Name: Tayre Blupath Race: Sylvankind Profession: Empath (shown as: Apothecary)
Gender: Male Age: 164 Expr: 1980157 Level: 43
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 74 (12) ... 74 (12)
Constitution (CON): 81 (15) ... 81 (15)
Dexterity (DEX): 52 (11) ... 52 (11)
Agility (AGI): 64 (12) ... 64 (12)
Discipline (DIS): 93 (16) ... 93 (16)
Aura (AUR): 75 (17) ... 75 (17)
Logic (LOG): 86 (18) ... 86 (18)
Intuition (INT): 84 (17) ... 84 (17)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Influence (INF): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Mana: 146 Silver: 48
>

[Trinitis]

Thats because, they pushed Empaths to the "pure" alignment..You should try retraining with a spellstaff in mind. They are trying to make empaths become casters..not swingers..thats why empaths have the Sorcerer TP costs on weapon/shield.

-Adredrin

[Xcalibur]

gs4 has no room for mutants

be all alike or pay the consequences!

[Drew2]

How I do spell staff? No train in any weapons?

[Trinitis]

Spell Staves DS are based on your magical skills.. So you drop all weapons and shield training, add in as much spell aim, spell research, Harness Power, Mana Controls, Lores, and the like as you possibly can.


in GS4, Adredrin does something like this..

2x Spell Aim
2x Spells (3x when points allow)
2x Harness Power
1x Spirit Mana Control
1x Elemental Mana Control
2x Arcane Symbols
2x MIU
1x Sorcerer Lore
1x Perception

-Adredrin

Oh, and he has some climb/swim, armor, etc. But those are all just my personal choices..the stuff I listed above all helps with DS when holding a SpellStaff

[Betheny]

Tayre got the shaft.

Got video?

[Ilvane]

I don't understand why empaths have to be casters. I mean, don't they think there are some that might want to swing a sword? That change in DS is just silly.

If they actually want empaths to be able to do rescues and not get killed every time, somethings might need to be fixed.

-A

[AnticorRifling]

The bulk of your exp comes walking to you and you're complaining? :cool:

[CrystalTears]

Moved to the empath folder cause.. it's about empaths. :P

[Tendarian]

A rolton tries to bite you!
AS: +36 vs DS: +227 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +10 = -149
A clean miss.
>
A rolton trots in!
>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
A rolton tries to bite you!
AS: +36 vs DS: +144 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +18 = -58
A clean miss.

Level 13 with 103 102 and 202 up but no signs or symbols. :) Yikes im definately going with the staff that im using here.

[Wezas]

GS3:
1x Edged, .75 CM, .5x shield with 202, 103, 120, 1109, 1130, & signs

A kobold swings a short sword at you!
AS: +8 vs DS: +538 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +73 = -424
A clean miss.

>stance offensive

A kobold swings a short sword at you!
AS: +6 vs DS: +137 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +18 = -80
A clean miss.

>kill kob
You swing a large butcher's cleaver at a kobold!
AS: +390 vs DS: +34 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +94 = +482
... and hit for 160 points of damage!
Left hip pulped, severing the leg.
A kobold screams and falls to the ground grasping its mangled left leg!
The kobold cries out in pain one last time and dies.
Roundtime: 6 sec.


GS4:

1x Edged, CM, .5x shield with 202, 103, 120, 1109, 1130, & signs

A rolton tries to bite you!
You parry the attack with your cleaver!
>
A rolton tries to bite you!
You block the attack with your shield!
>
A rolton tries to bite you!
You block the attack with your shield!
>
A rolton tries to bite you!
You parry the attack with your cleaver!

>stance defensive
You are now in a defensive stance.
>
A rolton claws at you!
AS: +46 vs DS: +298 with AvD: +35 + d100 roll: +63 = -154
A clean miss.
>
>stance offensive
You are now in an offensive stance.
>
A rolton claws at you!
AS: +46 vs DS: +199 with AvD: +35 + d100 roll: +23 = -95
A clean miss.
>

>kill kob
You swing a large butcher's cleaver at a kobold!
AS: +355 vs DS: +47 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +62 = +402
... and hit for 131 points of damage!
Shield arm removed at the shoulder!
The kobold's wooden shield falls to the ground.
The kobold crumples to a heap on the ground and dies.
Butcher's cleaver clashes with light leather!
[STR/DU: 70/160 vs. 10/250, d100(Open)= 71]
Roundtime: 6 sec.


So, a bit of a drop if I'm in defensive, it went up when I'm in offensive (except when you consider in GS3 I could put on WOF and have it last more then 1 min.) I'm taking Adredrin's advice and trying to be a spell monster now, We'll have to see how it works out.

2.125x spells (extra spell every 8 trainings, so 7 additional spells)
2x harness, spell aiming,
1x symbols, miu, spirit lores, mental lores
1.4x first aid (extra points)
misc armor/climb/swim/percept ranks.

Anyone know if having a staff in your hand is as good as, better, or worse then having an open hand when trying to cast bone shatter?

[Xcalibur]

no survival dude?

gs4 = more points!! wow
gs4 = WAY more skills to train!?? bah

[StrayRogue]

Everyones DS is dropping. Mine goes from 400 to 250 in defensive, though my offensive DS increases by over 30. Empaths are meant to be pures who do NOT swing a sword, unless you train in CM or something. You are spell slingers now. Adapt or die.

[Xcalibur]

question..

the staff is one handed, so does it help against bolting?

[Wezas]

You gesture at an arch wight.
You concentrate intently on an arch wight, and a pulse of pearlescent energy ripples toward it!
CS: +288 - TD: +119 + CvA: +10 + d100: +41 == +220
Warding failed!
The internal skeletal structure of an arch wight implodes inward upon itself, leaving behind no support for its body or life. The arch wight falls to the floor in a lifeless mass of flesh and fractured bones.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Me likes the open handed casting. Next reallocate (as soon as test comes back up) I'll be dumping a few physical stats for some mental stats. Be able to triple 10 in spell aiming for 10 of my 59 trainings.

[AnticorRifling]

You're 2 trains over me and swing 69 points harder. I officially hate your CM training. What other AS boosting spells are you rocking and what is the X of that cleaver?

Lvl 57 giant wizard with a +38 falchion, 425(almost maxed woot) 509, signs = AS of 321

[Drew2]

Bone shatter is not a bolt spell. Spell aiming is useless for empaths.

[StrayRogue]

No, it isn't. 111 is now a viable alternative. As are wands.

[Drew2]

HA. Yeah... 11 mana as a primary hunting spell... and mana sharing being next to useless... THAT'S gonna happen.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
You're 2 trains over me and swing 69 points harder. I officially hate your CM training. What other AS boosting spells are you rocking and what is the X of that cleaver?

Lvl 57 giant wizard with a +38 falchion, 425(almost maxed woot) 509, signs = AS of 321

I'm 59 in GS4, I'm 74 in GS3 (which is where the 390 swing was from)

Cleaver is 4x

In GS3 - 390 AS
Signs = +35
Bravery = +25
Heroism = +15
Rage = +10(or 15?)
Intensity = +50 (-50 to DS, ouch)

In GS4 - 355 AS
All are the same except Intensity is only +40 or so. And of course I'm 15 trainings younger.

So a more accurate comparison is your AS of 321 and my AS of 355 (in GS4).

[StrayRogue]

Considering you can triple harness power, mana is not a problem. I did a training plan for Chica the other day, who is around your level. She has ALOT of mana, easily enough to bolt once or twice a hunt.

If you "can't" hunt with all your spells and abilities...don't hunt. I know people will be able to hunt with your spells and abilities. If *you* can't do it, stick to healing.

[Wezas]

It's been said on the Empath Boards that we're getting at least two more bolt spells.

[StrayRogue]

Mana Control is not useless. You do realize the more you train in Control, the more mana per pulse you get back?

[Drew2]

ok smarty pants answer this...

Does training in a spell circle still increase that circle's CS? Or is it only based on Lore and stuff now?

[StrayRogue]

Lore does not and will not ever increase CS. Training in your spells is the only way to increase CS.

[Drew2]

Then wtf does lore do

[StrayRogue]

In the case of bolts, increases AvD. I am no puff, so I don't know the specifics per spell. But for a wizards case, for example, earth lore increases the effectiveness of Stoneskin, giving you more HP to lose. Ice lore makes Ice Patch easier to slip on, etc.

Baseline lore training for any pure is 1.5x I think.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Considering you can triple harness power, mana is not a problem. I did a training plan for Chica the other day, who is around your level. She has ALOT of mana, easily enough to bolt once or twice a hunt.

Just doubling in harness power instead of singling made my max mana jump from 182 to 241 ~ 25% increase. I imagine tripling would do about the same but costs quite a bit: 2x = 12mnt, 3x = 28mnt. Ouch. I'd rather save up and get a third spell every other level then go 3x harness.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
In the case of bolts, increases AvD. I am no puff, so I don't know the specifics per spell. But for a wizards case, for example, earth lore increases the effectiveness of Stoneskin, giving you more HP to lose. Ice lore makes Ice Patch easier to slip on, etc.

Baseline lore training for any pure is 1.5x I think.

From what I've heard, the blessing spiritual lore we have helps Bone Shatter. If you were to take the time and points to train in Elemental Lore - Fire, you would see your fire spirit be more effective.

[StrayRogue]

Yep, summoning lore will increase the effectiveness of Spirit Summoning.

[Drew2]

Spirit summoning such as Bind and Interference?

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Wezas
[quote]

I'm 59 in GS4, I'm 74 in GS3 (which is where the 390 swing was from)

Cleaver is 4x

In GS3 - 390 AS
Signs = +35
Bravery = +25
Heroism = +15
Rage = +10(or 15?)
Intensity = +50 (-50 to DS, ouch)

In GS4 - 355 AS
All are the same except Intensity is only +40 or so. And of course I'm 15 trainings younger.

So a more accurate comparison is your AS of 321 and my AS of 355 (in GS4).

Ahh clear as mud thanks. I might try and get on the beta server with Anticor and try a reallocation and see how it goes.

[Artha]

Baseline lore training for any pure is 1.5x I think.

I think it's 1x in the case of sorcerers, atleast.

[Drew2]

WHY IS EMPATH MY LOWEST CS???


Your spell lists:
Minor Spiritual...30
Major Spiritual...30
Empath Base.......41
Use the SKILLS command to view your progress towards your chosen goals.
Use SPELL ALL to view detailed list of spells.
>prep 1106
You focus your thoughts while chanting the mystical phrase for Bone Shatter...
Your spell is ready.
>cast zak
You gesture at Zakarin.
You concentrate intently on Zakarin, a pulse of pearlescent energy ripples toward Zakarin!
CS: +215 - TD: +157 + CvA: -1 + d100: +85 - -5 == +147
Warding failed!
Zakarin shudders with sporadic convulsions as pearlescent ripples envelop his body.
Zakarin is smashed for 31 points of damage!
... 10 points of damage!
Light blow to left leg.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>prep 118
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Web spell...
Your spell is ready.
>cast zak
You gesture at Zakarin.
Strands of webbing shoot forth towards Zakarin.
CS: +226 - TD: +157 + CvA: -1 + d100: +33 - -5 == +106
Warding failed!
Zakarin avoids most of the webbing.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>prep 201
You trace a sign while beseeching the spirits to empower you with the Calm spell...
Your spell is ready.
>cast zak
>
You gesture at Zakarin.
CS: +217 - TD: +157 + CvA: -1 + d100: +28 - -5 == +92
Warded off!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

[StrayRogue]

Tripling does not always make the highest CS, it depends all on WHEN you triple.

[Snapp]

Okay.. so empaths are supposed to train as "pures" now.. and get staves. How do we hunt then? With a single 6 mana spell (that is not even that effective)? Until Phase 2, it doesn't make sense to make us pure-casters.

And what about young poofs? They're supposed to do what? Even at like 10-15.. a 6 mana spell isn't too viable if that's all you have. I'm just confused by what they expect us to do.

[Edited on 10-9-2003 by Snapp]

[StrayRogue]

Young empaths get the most exp from healing. Isn't HEALING meant to be the entire point of your profession anyway?

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Snapp
Okay.. so empaths are supposed to train as "pures" now.. and get staves. How do we hunt then? With a single 6 mana spell (that is not even that effective)? Until Phase 2, it doesn't make sense to make us pure-casters.

And what about young poofs? They're supposed to do what? Even at like 10-15.. a 6 mana spell isn't too viable if that's all you have. I'm just confused by what they expect us to do.

[Edited on 10-9-2003 by Snapp]

Trust me, you train right, and hunting is a breeze with any class now. I made a brand new wizard in test..and at level 3 (which is where you get to by walking the town, and talking to thrak) I had close to 40 mana.

-Adredrin

[Snapp]

Young empaths get CRAP for experience from healing.. You don't really start learning from it good until you take bleeders. So you have to hunt. If you're supposed to be a pure caster, how do you hunt when you're only spell is a 6th level one?

[StrayRogue]

Um, don't most pures blade hunt until around 12 - 15? By then you will be able to spell hunt easily, even if it is a 6 mana spell.

[Drew2]

You gesture at a rolton.
You hurl a roaring ball of fire at a rolton!
AS: +282 vs DS: -6 with AvD: +70 + d100 roll: +22 = +380
... and hit for 152 points of damage!
Neck completely incinerated; a rolton's head drops to the ground and rolls to your feet!
The rolton collapses to the ground, emits a final bleat, and dies.
The roaring ball of fire strikes a rolton, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

OMFG SPELL AIMING ROX0R

[StrayRogue]

Do as you did Daina, get a claidh, and kill rats for a while. Hell, with the new quest system (if you ever genned in Vaalor), you don't need to hunt for the first 5 levels or so.

[Drew2]

cast murp
You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Fire Spirit spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at Murp.
You hurl a roaring ball of fire at Murp!
AS: +337 vs DS: +286 with AvD: +33 + d100 roll: +66 = +150
... and hit for 13 points of damage!
Minor burns to right arm. That hurts a bit.
The roaring ball of fire strikes Murp, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.
... 1 point of damage!
Flames tickle left arm. Hair singed.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

[Artha]

You can make a small fortune doing iron for 7 levels. It's boring, but it works. By then, 2xing harness power, you should be able to cast spells on rats or nymphs or maybe even hobgoblins until 10.