Our Mom's lied to us. [Archive] - The Gemstone IV Players' Corner

Chelle

10-05-2005, 11:28 AM

Though, anyone can find a website to post to suit their opinion.

These four studies say that women do. Though I didn't look up very many.

http://www.hon.ch/News/HSN/511828.html

http://painconsortium.nih.gov/genderandpain/illness.htm

http://www.hbns.org/news/pain04-09-03.cfm

http://www.aapmr.org/zdocs/assembly/04handouts/C140_1.pdf

This one is really funny and written by a really sexist guy: http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/women-men-pain-threshold/ (Of course he agrees that men have a higher pain tolerance.)

My opinion is I don't think pain tolerance is stronger by either men or women. It depends on the person. I've known some men who can't handle needles and cry like two year olds if they have to get a shot. Not to mention the sight of blood makes them faint. However, I've never known of a woman to behave like that. I am sure there probably is a few. On the other hand I know of a girl who broke her tail bone during child birth. Try that one for pain. I've also known a man who had to miss work because he stubbed his toe. True story.

I've read studies that state women feel pain more because of hormones and are able to think of ways to cope with it easier than men.

Pain isn't gender friendly to anyone. It depends on the individual.

ElanthianSiren

10-05-2005, 11:32 AM

Gonna go with Chelle. If I could have kids though, I would do so drug-free. I don't want that stuff in my system or getting to my child.

-M

Skeeter

10-05-2005, 11:37 AM

and I know a woman, who went on workman's comp for a scraped hand. My wife bursts into tears when she breaks a nail, etc...

I got hit in the face with a line drive playing 3rd, and didn't come out of the game.

I agree though, I think it has more to do with the tolerance of the individual than the sex, though men are programmed by society to tolerate pain, while women are programmed to go sobbing to daddy.

Much like little boys are expected to wear blue and play with trucks while little girls are expected to wear pink and play with dolls.

GSLeloo

10-05-2005, 11:44 AM

I never understood the breaking nails thing.. unless it breaks beneath your skin what's the problem.

BUT I would so want drugs when I give birth... I don't like pain and while I find the cause a worthy one, I still want to be pleasantly numb.

Chelle

10-05-2005, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Skeeter
and I know a woman, who went on workman's comp for a scraped hand. My wife bursts into tears when she breaks a nail, etc...

I doubt those have to do with pain. One was obviously for the money. The second could be about the money too if she had her nails done at a salon, or heartbroken over the time it took to grow the nail. I know when I break one I'm pissed because of the time it took to grow it all nice and pretty. :lol: :P

Skirmisher

10-05-2005, 11:45 AM

Yah, it's all about the individual.

Latrinsorm

10-05-2005, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by GSLeloo
You are right but do you think the majority of men would do it more than once? One of the greatest disservices to males everywhere is the idea that somehow they don't care as much about or for their children as females. To answer your question: yes.
Originally posted by Chelle
I've known some men who can't handle needles and cry like two year olds if they have to get a shot.Yeah well it really hurts!!!!

Seriously though, needles don't count. There's this weird body thing some people (my dad for instance) have that when you stick him with a needle (or a nail, or anything like that), his body constricts all his veins and arteries and stuff and he (naturally) starts feeling pretty poor. This doesn't mean he's a wuss (he could certainly kick your dad's ass) it just means his body pulls the rug out from under him, so to speak.

edit: Oh and to the topic at hand, my mother has never lied to me and is a saint. :)

[Edited on 10-5-2005 by Latrinsorm]

DeV

10-05-2005, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Yah, it's all about the individual. Pretty much.

Although I would love to know how most men would deal with the pain of pms that [most] women get. Some are just plain lucky and don't feel a damn thing. Maybe it's just that particular area and the cramping and ugh.

[Edited on 10-5-2005 by DeV]

ElanthianSiren

10-05-2005, 12:03 PM

I stick myself with needles 5 times a day and bust capillaries in my fingers 6 with lancets. Tolerance to pain is acquired IMO through painful situations. For instance, I don't blink while I'm stabbing myself, but it makes those around my cringe.

When I was a kid, I played in mud, with rocks, and in the woods. My ex boyfriend, huge momma's boy, used to CRY if he dirted his polo shirts. I didn't have my mom though for several years growing up, so I learned to play rough games. It is definitely nurture, not nature.

-M

Skirmisher

10-05-2005, 12:06 PM

Siren is my bodygguard.

Anything you have to say to me, say to her first.
:smilegrin:

Viridian

10-05-2005, 12:31 PM

Look I don't think a man could deal with having a baby, then right after doing your best to take care of it, right after I had my little one the urge to take care of it took me past my very obvious pain.
An instinct men don't have, because men are big old whiners when it comes to pain and dealing with it after the fact of said painful event.

Latrinsorm

10-05-2005, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Viridian
An instinct men don't haveYou are entirely incorrect and extremely ignorant for even thinking that.
men are big old whiners when it comes to pain Ever heard of Lou Gehrig?

Warriorbird

10-05-2005, 12:37 PM

Pff. Men deal with chronic pain just as well as women do. Badly.

Skirmisher

10-05-2005, 12:42 PM

Eh, the body tends to do what is needed to allow the species to survive.

I'm sure if for whatever reason the "males" ended up being the one to carry the children they would find a way, in general just like wome, to deal with some doing better than others.

Again, it's all about the individual.

xtc

10-05-2005, 12:46 PM

Girls are wimps this isn't news. Science has finally proven what men knew all along. :flamewar:

Viridian

10-05-2005, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
[quote]Originally posted by Viridian
An instinct men don't haveYou are entirely incorrect and extremely ignorant for even thinking that.[quote]

Fine then, I'm ignorant, and we aren't talking about chronic pain.

I just don't think after such an ordeal (and it is) that a man could start breast feeding and generally look after the baby. :shrugs:

Warriorbird

10-05-2005, 12:52 PM

If they had to they could. Taking it from a biological perspective species do what they have to to continue.

Jolena

10-05-2005, 12:56 PM

Heh! I've had three children, yes I said three, I'm insane I know. Two of which were by cesarean and the first of those two was without any pain medication up until they realized that yes, I could feel them stabbing my pelvis with a sharp instrument to see if I could feel the pain. I went through full labor almost before I was taken for an emergency cesarean on that one. :D On the second of the cesareans, it was also emergency but thankfully I was not in labor. They gave me a spinal block, which made me incredibly nauseous but other then that, I could not fee a thing when they moved me from the waist down.

Third child (incidently the middle one) was a natural labor. My body doesn't take well to anesthetics so the epidural failed, and the demoral didn't do much good either. Simply made me sleep between the horrendous contractions only to wake up 2 minutes later with another cry of pain. Oddly enough, my ex husband told me he'd never seen something so brave. I didn't scream, shed tears or anything like that. I moaned a bit in pain and definately gritted my teeth or my hand over something, but that's about it. And yes, it did threaten to rip me open when I had her, so they CUT (yes I said CUT) open the skin that every woman who's had a child knows about, from opening to asshole. Now I realize that's a bit graphic but for all you men here who are thinking that they can handle it, perhaps you can. Just think about that whole thing I just described for a moment however. Think on it very hard.

During said contractions, I had to sit on the edge of the bed, while my body was convulsing into knots and I felt like my back was going to explode, and hunch over while my feet rested on a chair and my knees touched my chest. THEN (and so lovely this is) a anesthesiologist shoves a needle into the space between your vertebrae and inserts a catheter where he or she pushes ice cold numbing juice into your spine and prays like hell that during one of those contractions you don't move slightly. Yes, we are required to hold still while they are doing this, even though our bodies are wracked with UNcontrollable contractions. Needless to say, it didn't work and I had her normally. I don't regret it either.

I've heard some folks say that men would never have a child again if they had one to begin with due to the pain. Ever notice that after a child birth, you can describe the pain, remember it somewhat but honestly you don't remember it as vividly as something else you might go through? Guess why ladies? Because your mind blocks that shit out. :lol: The pain is so great that your mind doesn't allow you to remember. I would wager that many women would not have children again if they could fully remember the pain of the first one.

Aaysia

10-05-2005, 12:59 PM

after reading Jolena's post...tying my tubes is starting to sound really really good.

Jolena

10-05-2005, 01:01 PM

And that, is the reason why my mother told me after the first one, "Its the screwin you get! For the screwin you got!"

Miss X

10-05-2005, 01:04 PM

Oh God. I'm not having babies now...

Latrinsorm

10-05-2005, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by Jolena
Third child (incidently the middle one) was a natural labor.Middle kid FTW!!

ElanthianSiren

10-05-2005, 01:08 PM

Men and women parentally invest differently, a phenomena which is basic human sexuality. To say that a man can or cannot do what a woman does is purely speculative. You can't honestly say that until we sex change a man and make him give birth. Even then, you could argue that environmental factors decreased on increased his pain tolerance.

Likewise, what I don't think men can or should do is be in the business of telling a woman with PMS or her period that she's a wimp, for the same reason stated above. If you have never experienced a phenomena, how can you make judgement on it?

So now that we've discredited all the generalizations, it still comes back to the individual in question.

-M

Latrinsorm

10-05-2005, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
If you have never experienced a phenomena, how can you make judgement on it?Logic/reason come to mind. I've never been shot. I feel pretty comfortable saying that getting shot is not a pleasant experience for me.

Jolena

10-05-2005, 01:11 PM

You know, as much as I talk about how bad it was, and it was I can't lie, it was much more fulfilling to have her naturally. If I had the choice, I would have done all three that way. Cept, maybe not the cutting part heh!

Either way, the recovery is much more comfortable from a natural labor. You have stitches of course, if they have to cut you open to prevent you from ripping..but they heal quickly. With a cesarean, you have staples sometimes, but stitches usually, across your pelvis and they can get easily infected and take much longer to heal. Plus you kinda feel like your insides are loose and jiggling around when you've had a cesaeran. My mom was in the surgery room with me the first one I had, and she said they removed all kinds of organs from my body and put them in a steel tray before they took out the baby. She said afterwards, they just dumped them back in my stomach and jiggled me a bit. :lol2: Guess that's technology for ya eh?

Skeeter

10-05-2005, 01:12 PM

I think a lot of women confuse men not wanting to deal with childbirth, as not being able to handle childbirth.

That shit that Jolena just described... just ugh

CrystalTears

10-05-2005, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Jolena
...if they have to cut you open to prevent you from ripping...you have staples sometimes, but stitches usually, across your pelvis and they can get easily infected and take much longer to heal...feel like your insides are loose and jiggling around when you've had a cesaeran...removed all kinds of organs from my body and put them in a steel tray before they took out the baby. She said afterwards, they just dumped them back in my stomach and jiggled me a bit..

:cry: Please stop. I wanted to have children.. til a minute ago.

Jolena

10-05-2005, 01:15 PM

Bwuahahaha. I should go around and talk to the teenage girls at my son's school. I could be a deciding factor in whether or not they have babies, if I tell my stories to them. :lol:

DeV

10-05-2005, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Jolena
You know, as much as I talk about how bad it was, and it was I can't lie, it was much more fulfilling to have her naturally. My mom had all five of her kids via natural birth. She is pretty awesome in my book just for that. I could not even begin to fathom it........

Nope, still can't.

ElanthianSiren

10-05-2005, 01:17 PM

An episiotomy is actually standard procedure now (that's the term for the cutting of your perineum). In general, it isn't because they're afraid you'll rip. It allows the baby to come out faster, so you get out of their deliveryroom faster.

If I ever had a kid and they took a knife down there, someone would be getting a backwards mulekick to the face. The end. Natural all the way.

-M

Jolena

10-05-2005, 01:18 PM

There is a certain bonding factor that you get with your child when you have them naturally vs. cesarean. I think it's just the closeness of it all. You can hold them, look at them, all that good stuff. You don't normally get that immediately after a cesarean. You're usually too drugged up to do so.

Jolena

10-05-2005, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
An episiotomy is actually standard procedure now (that's the term for the cutting of your perineum). In general, it isn't because they're afraid you'll rip. It allows the baby to come out faster, so you get out of their deliveryroom faster.

If I ever had a kid and they took a knife down there, someone would be getting a backwards mulekick to the face. The end. Natural all the way.

-M

They use scissors, not a knife actually. And mine was because they were afraid I would rip. Her head circumference was rather large and it would be much cleaner and easier for me and the surgeon if they cut me open rather then letting my flesh rip. Healing is more difficult if you rip as well. I would think your doctor, if you ever have to have this done, would suggest that you have it cut instead of ripping.

Oh and yah, I knew the term for it, but it gets my point across much more vividly when I just describe it. :D

ElanthianSiren

10-05-2005, 01:27 PM

I wasn't saying it wasn't true in your case. You sound like a total trooper. I was stating in general. Operations like that and circumcisions cost quite a bit for what is actually done, so it's easy money. Of course, it's done more often than absolutely necessary.

I was cesarean, and they say they're much prettier babies (not coneheads!), but I'd still want to have mine naturally for the bonding experience you mentioned. I'd also like to have them at home or at a birthing center because I don't believe in treating pregnant women like they're sick or exposing them to hospital conditions.

Please don't take any of these comments as criticism for what you have done or endured. It is simply the way that I would give birth, given the choice to do so.

-M

Aaysia

10-05-2005, 01:29 PM

good lord the mental imagery :no:

Jolena

10-05-2005, 01:46 PM

Oh I completely agree with you Siren. I think that doctors and even mothers too often choose to get cesareans. Doctors do so for the obvious money factors, and women for the convenience. They just don't always realize I don't think how difficult the recovery is after a c-section.

Atlanteax

10-05-2005, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Jolena

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
An episiotomy is actually standard procedure now (that's the term for the cutting of your perineum). In general, it isn't because they're afraid you'll rip. It allows the baby to come out faster, so you get out of their deliveryroom faster.

If I ever had a kid and they took a knife down there, someone would be getting a backwards mulekick to the face. The end. Natural all the way.

-M

They use scissors, not a knife actually. And mine was because they were afraid I would rip. Her head circumference was rather large and it would be much cleaner and easier for me and the surgeon if they cut me open rather then letting my flesh rip. Healing is more difficult if you rip as well. I would think your doctor, if you ever have to have this done, would suggest that you have it cut instead of ripping.

Oh and yah, I knew the term for it, but it gets my point across much more vividly when I just describe it. :D

Originally posted by Aaysia
good lord the mental imagery :no:

Yea, did the above remind anyone else of that scene in "Alien" ? :wow:

GSLeloo

10-05-2005, 02:32 PM

~laughs~ I still want to have kids but Jolena just reminded me of why I didn't used to...

Aaysia

10-05-2005, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by Atlanteax
Yea, did the above remind anyone else of that scene in "Alien" ? :wow:

:lol: totally

Chelle

10-05-2005, 03:26 PM

What Jolena describes is completely accurate. That is very similar to how it happened for me. Strange thing though at the next doc appointment at my OBGYN as he was checking my stitches (down there), I said I hope I can have another real soon. The look of shock on his face was priceless! He looked at the nurse in there with him and said, "Well, we don't get that response this soon after, do we?" She chuckled and said, "Nope. They usually say they'll not have any more kids for a while." It was funny. But I was serious, despite all the excruciating mind numbing pain, it was worth it!

Latrinsorm

10-05-2005, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by Atlanteax
Yea, did the above remind anyone else of that scene in "Alien" ?Not even a little bit.

But as soon as I read "Two of which were by cesarean" I knew we were in for a bumpy ride.

A non-sarcastic :thumbsup: for Jolena.

Czeska

10-05-2005, 05:03 PM

Regarding remembering the pain of childbirth...

I remember it. Vividly. I also remember how uncomfortable the epidural was. Now, that said...

When a needle in your spine is the better option... it fucking hurts!

Then I told the anesthesiologist I loved her, and had the most amazing experience of my life.

Skirmisher

10-05-2005, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Czeska
Regarding remembering the pain of childbirth...

I remember it. Vividly. I also remember how uncomfortable the epidural was. Now, that said...

When a needle in your spine is the better option... it fucking hurts!

Then I told the anesthesiologist I loved her, and had the most amazing experience of my life.
Wait a minute....better than mallomars?

Tsunami

10-05-2005, 05:10 PM

When a man squeezes a walnut out of his junk, come and talk to me about women and childbirth.

xtc

10-05-2005, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by Tsunami
When a man squeezes a walnut out of his junk, come and talk to me about women and childbirth.

kidney stones, we all remember Kramer?

Latrinsorm

10-05-2005, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by Tsunami
When a man squeezes a walnut out of his junk, come and talk to me about women and childbirth. I've seen videos of a man doing pretty much that. Yay PsiNet!

Rainy Day

10-06-2005, 01:52 PM

On the original study that was linked, maybe I read it wrong, but it seemed to be talking about sensing pain primarily. They seemed to be making the conclusion that being more perceptive to pain meant having a lower tolerance for pain.

I don't consider acknowleging that something hurts being the same thing as dealing with it hurting. The study was interesting. But I don't think is definitive on how well people handle pain. What if women think something hurts more than men do, but deal with it hurting better than men do? Dunno if that's true or not, but it isn't answered in what was reported about that study.

RD

xtc

10-06-2005, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by Rainy Day
On the original study that was linked, maybe I read it wrong, but it seemed to be talking about sensing pain primarily. They seemed to be making the conclusion that being more perceptive to pain meant having a lower tolerance for pain.

I don't consider acknowleging that something hurts being the same thing as dealing with it hurting. The study was interesting. But I don't think is definitive on how well people handle pain. What if women think something hurts more than men do, but deal with it hurting better than men do? Dunno if that's true or not, but it isn't answered in what was reported about that study.

RD

"The laboratory studies show rather convincingly that women have a lower pain threshold and pain tolerance than men. That has been fairly consistently shown in the experimental studies that have been done."

DeV

10-06-2005, 02:26 PM

It could be said that lower pain threshold could be equated to lower sensitivity because women experience pain more often on different levels than men. All in all, I agree with Skirm in it being more about the individual and less about women and men as a whole.

Janarth

10-06-2005, 02:42 PM

Men and women alike are wired for survival. During pregnancy, women tolerate the pain cause they have to. Back in the day, men would do crazy shit because they had to as well (as in, hiking around in the snow wearing fur and leather for a coupla hours so their damn wife and kid could eat). I think we're all the same, put us in a situation, and our body responds to that situation. There are stories of women lifting extraordinarily heavy objects that fell on their children, and of course we see them give birth all the time. There are also tales of men who endured frostbite over ridiculous amounts of their bodies and soldiered on. Soldiers losing entire limbs, throwing them in their bags, and continuing to fight. Heck, I broke my leg on the ice in my driveway at six in the morning during a snowstorm, no one else was up and no one could hear me. I mustered enough adrenalin to walk/hobble/climb two flights of stairs and wake up my girlfriend to call the ambulance.

I think the level of pain we can tolerate is the same; its however much we need to tolerate to survive.

Chastittee

10-06-2005, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Gonna go with Chelle. If I could have kids though, I would do so drug-free. I don't want that stuff in my system or getting to my child.

-M

heh, i thought the very same thing til about 4 hours into labor pains. never had more than demerol though. i refused an epidural. too many bad things can happen with those

Chastittee

10-06-2005, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Jolena
Heh! I've had three children, yes I said three, I'm insane I know.

you're not insane woman. my sister in law has six..one's a step child, the other five she birthed naturally, no drugs. she's insane.

Artha

10-06-2005, 07:02 PM

When a man squeezes a walnut out of his junk
I saw that video.

HarmNone

10-06-2005, 08:50 PM

In my experience, it's been an individual thing. I've noticed no difference that might be gender-related. Some people have higher pain thresholds than others, but I've never seen evidence that would equate that to one gender or the other.

4a6c1

10-06-2005, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by HarmNone
Some people have higher pain thresholds than others, but I've never seen evidence that would equate that to one gender or the other.

Truth.

There is nothing I've seen that seperates pain thresholds to gender. I have noticed men and women have very different (but still individualized) reactions to pain, although, I equate that less to biology and more to society.

Another thing I've noticed. Regardless of gender each persons tolerance for pain can be brough up in degrees. Degrees can be slowly or quickly applied over time to increase pain tolerance. This works only for the specific area of the body pain is applied to, and the quicker someone is brought through degrees of pain the quicker they fade without practice. Slow degrees applied over long periods of time stick and are hard to wear off.

I'm sure this is what nature intended by giving monthly menstrual cycles to the gender that must birth a child.

Err. My 2 cents.

Jonty

10-06-2005, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Gonna go with Chelle. If I could have kids though, I would do so drug-free. I don't want that stuff in my system or getting to my child.

-M

An epidural doesn't get to your child.

Rainy Day

10-07-2005, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by xtc
"The laboratory studies show rather convincingly that women have a lower pain threshold and pain tolerance than men. That has been fairly consistently shown in the experimental studies that have been done."

That was kinda my point. I didn't feel that report defined these things very well. It mentioned that women tended to express feeling pain sooner than men when heat was applied. I didn't see anything stated about how much heat each could take or how they dealt with the pain from the heat. Feeling it sooner and expressing that feeling as being painful isn't the same as having a lower tolerance for that pain.

I'm not arguing either side. But that study, or more likely the report of the study, wasn't really answering the question about tolerance of the pain just threshold.

I'd be more interested in details of how these things were measured to draw the conclusions they did.

RD

OreoElf

10-08-2005, 03:48 AM

Originally posted by Mellie
Well.. until they actually make a man give birth, I fail to see how that can even be used as an example. That being said... I agree with Czeska.. gimme the pain killers, child birth hurt like hell.
:yeahthat: but give me no kids too ;)

GSLady17

10-08-2005, 05:00 AM

Originally posted by Jonty

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Gonna go with Chelle. If I could have kids though, I would do so drug-free. I don't want that stuff in my system or getting to my child.

-M

An epidural doesn't get to your child.

That's what I thought but I wasn't sure.

My mom told me once that when she had me the pain was crazy.

Then she had my sister and the drugs they had developed pretty much put her to sleep and she didn't like that at all.

So she went back to natural with my brother... which brought back the memories of how bad it hurt. hehe

By the time she had the youngest, they gave her something so that she was fully a wake, she wasn't all loopy, and she hardly felt any pain at all. (she was 42, at the time they were worried she was too old hehe)

It's no longer the days where your tied down to the bed screaming as a neighbor delivers your kid.

I do believe it all depends on the person when dealing with pain. I simply convinced myself it was all in my head. When in really bad pain, I'll force myself to think of something else, I might zone out and people will have to yell at me to get my attention but it works.