Giuliani considers 2008

[Gan]

COPENHAGEN, Denmark (AP) -- Former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani said Sunday he will contemplate next year whether to run for president in 2008.

"I will be considering it next year," Giuliani said during a visit to Denmark. But he added that playing with the idea of running for the Republican nomination for president did not mean he would actually do it.

SOURCE - CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/02/guiliani.prez.ap/index.html)
________________________________

Your thoughts? Discuss.

I think this would be a supremely better option than McCain and very difficult to overcome by the Democrat field of candidates in my opinion.

I'm still reading on his book and am very impressed with his approach to leadership.

[The Ponzzz]

I am a democrat, but I would vote for him. He is a very strong leader, and he could get us out of the Iraq mess, fast and very smart like.

[Parkbandit]

I like him, but I think there are too many skeletons in his closet for him to be an effective candidate.

[Gan]

Thats what some of my republican friends say as well. What kind of skeletons? I'm not as versed on his background as I intend to be in the future.

I figure as long as he 'didn't inhale' he cant be all that bad eh? :whistle:

[Atlanteax]

I'd rather have McCain.

I hope the Democrats go with H Clinton.

[Jayvn]

Wow, i would consider myself democrat had I actually ever registered to vote, I'd go register to vote for him though.

[Skirmisher]

No to Rudy for president.

I still say stick him with the job of head of FEMA. He'd be fantastic at it, and it is a high profile job so it's not like some nothing post or a ceremonial ambasadorship to like Micronesia or something.

After several years in there I might be willing to vote for him for something else, but we'd have to see.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Ganalon
Thats what some of my republican friends say as well. What kind of skeletons? I'm not as versed on his background as I intend to be in the future.

I figure as long as he 'didn't inhale' he cant be all that bad eh? :whistle:

Adultery. And after the fuss made over Clinton and their emphasis on 'moral values', the Republicans would be fools to field him.

Raven

[Edited on 10-2-2005 by Ravenstorm]

[Warriorbird]

Multiple adultery, too.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Multiple adultery, too.

Yeah, but really, so what?

I said i thought it was stupid that anyone used that junk against Clinton. I thought it was pathetic and grasped onto as tightly as it was because he did a great job otherwise.

For me or any of the Democrats to bring that up regarding Rudy would be more than slightly hypocritical.

He has other issues that can be brought up anyway that are completely legitimate so don't dig in the dirt.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
He has other issues that can be brought up anyway that are completely legitimate so don't dig in the dirt.

Like what? I was talking about the adultery.. as well as his choice for Chief of Police.

What else is there?

[Skirmisher]

Did you live in or near NYC while he was Mayor?

It was not the smooth honymoon that people all remember after 9/11.

Not at all.

[Terminator X]

I think his repuation became tarnished beyond any vote of myself shortly after he began defending the officers who unloaded their weapons upon a certain minority to the tune of 33 bullets.

Not to mention the defending of officers in a certain plunger incident.

He is waaay too fed by political-police-patronage (PPP) for my humble liberal taste.

[Terminator X]

Alright, hoping that he (Giuliani) isn't elected... and from actually having dealt with the very direct backlash his administration dealt out a few years ago, in short, I can emphatically tell you that this is a man who was so far up the sphincters and in cahoots with the FDNY and NYPD, it makes Boss Tweed look like an innocent red-headed two-year-old stepchild. Trust me.

- The Termite

[Skirmisher]

Amadou Diallo
Abner Louima
Patrick Dorismond

Those names are perhaps the most well known of the complaints of police intimidation and brutality in NYC during his tenure in office.

In the Diallo case Giuliani showed his usual compassion after his officers not only unloaded their clips but if I am recalling correctly, one even reloaded and fired some more into an innocent man by not saying how horrible it was and saying that he would make sure that the officers who killed a man for nothing would be pinished, but by breaking the law again and releasing his juvenile file.

He did not begin to backpedal until he was looking to a possible senate run.

[Parkbandit]

I don't know... while others look at him as a bad guy, he certainly accomplished what he set out to do when he ran for Mayor.. and that was to clean up NYC.

Backround on him. Sorry it's longer than I thought.

Source (http://www.nndb.com/people/587/000024515/)

Rudy Giuliani
AKA Rudolph William Louis Giuliani

Born: 28-May-1944
Birthplace: New York City


Gender: Male
Religion: Roman Catholic
Ethnicity: White
Sexual orientation: Straight
Occupation: Politician

Level of fame: Famous
Executive summary: Ex-Mayor of New York City

Rudy Giuliani was mayor of New York City from 1994 to the end of 2001. He's a Republican, in a city where Democrats outnumber Republicans roughly 5-1, but he was a popular mayor and he's an even more popular ex-mayor.

Giuliani's father was an plumber and bartender who had been arrested for petty crimes before marriage straightened him out. His mother was a bookkeeper who had a keen interest in the news, reading up to half a dozen newspapers daily. As a boy, young Giuliani considered becoming a priest, but instead studied law.

He first gained national prominence as a U.S. Attorney, prosecuting the insider trading trials of Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken and other high-profile cases. In one of his most infamous assignments, Giuliani argued in an immigration case -- preposterously but successfully -- that repression in Haiti "simply does not exist," and that there had been "no political repression" in Haiti under President Jean-Claude Duvalier.

As U.S. Attorney, he oversaw more than 4,000 convictions, enabling him to run for mayor as the candidate who'd be "tough on crime." He defeated David Dinkins in the elections of 1993, and as mayor immediately pursued aggressive policies against the kind of street crime New York had become famous for.

Giuliani backed the police ferociously, and in what had been a crime-infested metropolis, it became reasonably safe to ride the subway or stroll city parks. Fewer tourists returned to their home towns with tales of being mugged, and more left with happy memories.

Of course, police crackdowns have certain distasteful side effects, and blacks and other minorities often spoke of feeling harassed, "presumed guilty." Many complained that Giuliani's gung-ho support for the police department led to an atmosphere where troubled cops knew they could get away with almost anything.

Under Giuliani's administration, some of the city's widely-reported cases of police brutality included the death of Amadou Diallo, a black, unarmed man walking near his apartment who was shot 19 times by four plainclothes cops, and the Duvalier-esque beating and anal-plunger-rape of Abner Louima, a Haitian immigrant.

When a 16-year-old black teenager was shot and wounded by police as he was walking home from the city's "midnight basketball" games (a program designed to keep kids out of trouble), Giuliani's public response was that the boy "should have been home at that hour."

Street artists and political protesters also complained of police harassment. Almost 70,000 people filed lawsuits against New York Police during Giuliani's two terms as mayor, claiming they were strip-searched for minor offences like jaywalking and fare-dodging.

Giuliani's zero-tolerance for scum saw the traditional porn shops and lap dancers of Times Square redeveloped away, and replaced by family-friendly stores and theaters, including the MTV studios and an enormous Disney store and cinema.

While championing a voucher system as an alternative to public education, Giuliani described New York's schools as "dysfunctional," "just plain terrible," and said "the whole system should be blown up."

When the World Trade Center was hit by hijacked jets on September 11, 2001, Giuliani rushed to Ground Zero. He was there before the first tower toppled.

In the aftermath of disaster, Giuliani's take-charge and take-no-crap demeanor was exactly what most New Yorkers wanted, and across the nation, many millions saw Giuliani's stalwart response as genuine leadership. He was named Time magazine's Person of the Year for 2001, dubbed "America's Mayor" by the media, and given an honorary knighthood by Queen Elizabeth II in 2002.

In October 2001, as anthrax-by-mail subjected New York to further drama, Giuliani publicly urged all New Yorkers to get flu shots. Flu symptoms are similar to early anthrax symptoms, so Giuliani's reasoning was that minimizing the flu would lead to less confusion and less public panic. But he neglected to run the idea past health experts, who pointed out that there's nowhere near enough flu vaccine for everyone in New York.

Giuliani's first marriage was to his second cousin, Regina Peruggi. They were married for 14 years, before Giuliani, a good Catholic, had their marriage annulled by the church on the grounds that he and Peruggi were a little too closely related for God to approve.

His second marriage was to Donna Hanover, a reporter and sometimes soap-opera actress. Havover was the city's First Lady while Giuliani was mayor, but she stayed farther and farther out of the public spotlight as Giuliani was widely whispered to be boinking his press secretary, Cristyne Lategano.

After Lategano left City Hall, Giuliani took up with a divorced nurse, Judith Nathan. Never one for subtlety, Giuliani and Nathan marched side-by-side in the St. Patrick's Day parade, where the city's mayor traditionally walks with his wife.

Term limits prevented Giuliani from seeking a third term as mayor in 2001. He was expected to run for the Senate against Hillary Clinton, but he backed out of the race to undergo prostate surgery. And also, perhaps not coincidentally, because his marital infidelities were all over the newspapers around that time.

Shortly after Giuliani left office, he filed for divorce, accusing Hanover of "cruel and inhuman treatment." In her response, Hanover blamed the ex-mayor's "open and notorious adultery." When their divorce was finalized, she got a million dollars a year in alimony.


NYC Crime Statistics (http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm)

[Edited on 10-3-05 by Parkbandit]

[Parkbandit]

Heh.. probably should have read the "biography" of him a little more closely before posting.

I doubt "boinking" is a term found in most 'professional' biographies.

:wow:

[Wezas]

Personally I'd prefer McCain. I realize that he jumped the democrat ship but he seems like a good man who would be a good leader.

As for the democratic nomination, I think Hillary would be a death sentance (meaning she wouldn't win). I'm hoping VA's Govenor (Mark Warner) runs, rumor is he's considering.

[Parkbandit]

I'm just ok with McCain. While I can respect a man for having his own opinion and making his own decisions.. he just seems to get off going against his party all the time.

McCain > Edwards > Kerry > Hillary

[Skirmisher]

As I said, he was very effective post 9/11 but he had racial tension at an extremely high point for what I think are understandable reasons.

FEMA is perfect for him, but no way I could vote for him for a larger office without having a body of work to examine from an extended period of time and hopefully see a larger understanding on his part of the needs and difficulties faced by minorities in a country with an ever larger minority population.

[Skirmisher]

McCain would be my first choice at the moment.

A future hopeful of mine is Jon Corzine from good old New Jersey, assuming he can make it out of the carnage of NJ politics.

[Gan]

I like McCain right where he's at. He makes an excellent Senator. But as with teachers, nurses, and managers of any sort... a good employee does not necessarily make a good manager. I agree that he's much better than an option involving Edwards, Kerry, or Hillary... I just hope he's not who the Republican leadership gives the nod to as a front runner in 2008.

[TheEschaton]

First off, reference Terminator's posts in re: to why Rudy isn't fit to be Commander-in-Chief. I bet you he would of just said "Shit happens", if he was President, during Abu Gharaib (although, if you think about it: what else did the Bush administration do?)


FEMA is perfect for him, but no way I could vote for him for a larger office without having a body of work to examine from an extended period of time and hopefully see a larger understanding on his part of the needs and difficulties faced by minorities in a country with an ever larger minority population.

Secondly, since when has this stopped the U.S. population from electing anyone? Hell, they elected G.W. with what experience? He had been Gov'r of Texas for....6 years? A job he was miserable at? And before that, bankrupted several companies.

And now....he's nominated someone who's A) never been a judge, and b) is a White House Insider, to the Supreme Court. It's like A Brave New World, everywhere you look.

-TheE-

[Drew]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Amadou Diallo
Abner Louima
Patrick Dorismond



The Diallo incident, while tragic, was just that, a tragedy. I never blamed the police for that after hearing the whole account of it. The other two I don't know, but I know Abner Louima is the name of a Ted Leo & The Pharmacists song and I generally disagree with everything they say.




Anyway, I wouldn't vote for either McCain or Guiliani because I won't vote for a pro-abortion canidate (I believe Guiliani is pro-abortion as well).

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Drew
The Diallo incident, while tragic, was just that, a tragedy. I never blamed the police for that after hearing the whole account of it.

Sorry, but that's a cop out.

Every death is a tragedy to someone, so naming this happening so is like saying the sun is hot. True, but pretty much a given.

But 41 bullets do not just fire themselves. The police officers have a difficult job. They should be paid more but they also should have better screening to keep out people who would empty a full load of ammo, reload shoot some more, all at an innnocent and unarmed man and then afterwards feel that THEY are the ones being persecuted.

Sorry, being shot nineteen times, thats persecution.

Having a plunger forced up your anus till its torn and requires sugery, thats persecution.

And then having the sealed juvenile records of an innocent and wrongly killed man revealed to add salt to the wounds of a grieving family, thats persecution.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by TheEschatonAnd now....he's nominated someone who's A) never been a judge, and b) is a White House Insider, to the Supreme Court. It's like A Brave New World, everywhere you look.

-TheE-

Please post your reasons why you think he would not make a good Chief Justice.

And hey.. welcome back.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
As I said, he was very effective post 9/11 but he had racial tension at an extremely high point for what I think are understandable reasons.


Actually, looking at the crime statistics of NYC.. he was very effective pre 9/11 as well.

[Skirmisher]

And the Iraqi's might say that Baghdad was safer to walk around in before the US arrived.

So what?

[TheEschaton]

I'm talking about Harriet Miers, the woman Bush nominated to the Court THIS MORNING to replace O'Connor.


I mean, come on guys, granted, I have a day off, and I'm in the capital, but I live in Africa, I should NOT be ahead of y'all in the news cycle.

Granted, it is late afternoon here, so I might be more awake.

-TheE-

[Landrion]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Did you live in or near NYC while he was Mayor?

It was not the smooth honymoon that people all remember after 9/11.

Not at all.

Yeah, thats what I was thinking too. Before 9/11 people hated the guy. He was feuding with the cabbies and the food vendors. It was sort of astonishing how 9/11 reversed his image.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
I'm talking about Harriet Miers, the woman Bush nominated to the Court THIS MORNING to replace O'Connor.


I mean, come on guys, granted, I have a day off, and I'm in the capital, but I live in Africa, I should NOT be ahead of y'all in the news cycle.

Granted, it is late afternoon here, so I might be more awake.

-TheE-

You are on my ass about a story that broke this morning? I laugh at you.

:lol:

And not sure why he would nominate a woman with no judging experience to be a justice on the Supreme Court. I'll have to look it up.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
And the Iraqi's might say that Baghdad was safer to walk around in before the US arrived.

So what?

Disliking the Mayor is much different than not being effective. If he ran on the platform that he will reduce crime and he dramatically reduced crime like he did.. I wouldn't call that ineffective.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
No to Rudy for president.

I still say stick him with the job of head of FEMA. He'd be fantastic at it, and it is a high profile job so it's not like some nothing post or a ceremonial ambasadorship to like Micronesia or something.

After several years in there I might be willing to vote for him for something else, but we'd have to see. Agreed.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Disliking the Mayor is much different than not being effective. If he ran on the platform that he will reduce crime and he dramatically reduced crime like he did.. I wouldn't call that ineffective.

Definition of terms.

What makes one effective?
Making the trains run on time? Bringing down crime statistics? A chicken in every pot?

I look at the overall, and New York city was not a happy or healthy city at that point.

Authoritarian states have the ability to reduce crime dramatically also, does that make them "effective"?

Not to me.

[Gan]

I wonder if he would consider a VP spot as well???

McCain/Guiliani in 2008? That might get me to be more supportive of McCain... but not as much as seeing Hillary on the opposing ticket. :spaz:

[Warriorbird]

If Hillary wins our primaries I'll be even sadder than the fact that Kerry won our primaries.

[xtc]

Personally I hope McCain runs. I don't dislike Guliani. I just would like to see him hold a higher level office. I am not sure FEMA Director would help him if he wants to become Pres. Senator would be a good next step for Guliani.

I can't stand Hillary and I would vote for Bin Laden before her.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Disliking the Mayor is much different than not being effective. If he ran on the platform that he will reduce crime and he dramatically reduced crime like he did.. I wouldn't call that ineffective.

Definition of terms.

What makes one effective?
Making the trains run on time? Bringing down crime statistics? A chicken in every pot?

I look at the overall, and New York city was not a happy or healthy city at that point.

Authoritarian states have the ability to reduce crime dramatically also, does that make them "effective"?

Not to me.

Effective to me means something you can measure. Crime DID go down during his term. People being "happy", while measureable by polls, is more of an opinion than a stated fact.

Like I said.. he wouldn't be my first pick for President, but seeing that there are no viable candidates so far from the Democrats I might not have a choice.

Hillary or Edwards or Kerry would make poor Presidents in my opinion.

:shrug:

[Warriorbird]

I wouldn't go quite that far but I definitely think the Democrats need a populist without a bunch of strikes against them. Hillary...doesn't quite fit that.

[Edited on 10-3-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
If Hillary wins our primaries I'll be even sadder than the fact that Kerry won our primaries.

The sad part is.. I think most of the country would agree. It's ashame too.. because there are a couple of Democrats I would vote for before McCain if they ran.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
I wouldn't go quite that far but I definitely think the Democrats need a populist without a bunch of strikes against them. Hillary...doesn't quite fat that.

Hillary would be very horrible.

Kerry would be horrible.

Edwards would be less horrible than the other two, but still worse than McCain.

The Democrats need to just say NO to these three and get a moderate nominated. If they do, they will have the Presidency.

Of course, they didn't learn this last election.. not sure they will in 2008 either.

[Warriorbird]

Pretty much. They need someone with a decent image and moderate views. Depending on one's ideals... there's different candidates the Republicans should run.

[Gan]

Guess that rules out Pat Robertson.

Le-Sigh.

:lol:

[Warriorbird]

Yeah. He'd be number 1... if I did the nominating.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Pretty much. They need someone with a decent image and moderate views. Depending on one's ideals... there's different candidates the Republicans should run.

I wonder if a moderate Republican could win the Presidency.

[Edited on 10-3-2005 by xtc]

[Gan]

And you thought Dukakas (sp) looked funny sitting in that tank. Imagine Robertson's ears sticking out of that helmet.

[Gan]

Originally posted by xtc

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Pretty much. They need someone with a decent image and moderate views. Depending on one's ideals... there's different candidates the Republicans should run.

I wonder if a moderate Republican could win the Presidency.

[Edited on 10-3-2005 by xtc]

Ronnie did back in 80 and 84. Would be nice to see another like that.

[Warriorbird]

Not too many people would've called him a moderate the time, but hey. Slide to the right and all.

[Back]

Having lived in NY when Guillani was there makes me lean towards support. The man, I think, is tough enough to make the hard decisions. He did wonders for NY, caught a lot of flack in the process, but at the end of the day the city was a better city because of it.

I think McCain is a sellout. He claims moderation but to me it seems like he does for his own agenda, not the people’s agenda.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Backlash
Having lived in NY when Guillani was there makes me lean towards support. The man, I think, is tough enough to make the hard decisions. He did wonders for NY, caught a lot of flack in the process, but at the end of the day the city was a better city because of it.

I think McCain is a sellout. He claims moderation but to me it seems like he does for his own agenda, not the people’s agenda.

Holy shit.. people, write this date down.

I completely agree with Backlash in a Political thread.
:wow:

[Sean]

I'd like McCain a lot more if he'd stop spending so much time caring about getting the gov't to overlord sports.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Backlash
I think McCain is a sellout. He claims moderation but to me it seems like he does for his own agenda, not the people’s agenda.


I have to disagree with you on this one. McCain is his own man and won't bend to the will of the party when he thinks it is wrong. I know he can be difficult, cantankerous and ornery but the man has honour and character which counts for a lot in my book.

[Kefka]

Originally posted by Backlash
Having lived in NY when Guillani was there makes me lean towards support. The man, I think, is tough enough to make the hard decisions. He did wonders for NY, caught a lot of flack in the process, but at the end of the day the city was a better city because of it.

I think McCain is a sellout. He claims moderation but to me it seems like he does for his own agenda, not the people’s agenda.

I don't think he sold out. I think he remained the same while his peers shifted further right.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Holy shit.. people, write this date down.

I completely agree with Backlash in a Political thread.
:wow:

It would indeed be a beautiful day...except that you're both wrong.

But we have some lovely parting gifts for you! Don! Tell them what they've won!

Well Monty...its a "Better living Through Facism Do it Yourself Kit" That's right now you too can simulate ruling your own kingdom with an iron hand and be just a little more equal than others. PLUS one "Escape this police beatdown for free" card. Sure you were just getting milk from the cornr store but darnit you knew the risks when you walked down the street! Now this handy dandy card will save you from being beat, shot, tased or plunged any single time so use it wisely! !

[Hulkein]

Police brutality never hurt anyone.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Skirmisher

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Holy shit.. people, write this date down.

I completely agree with Backlash in a Political thread.
:wow:

It would indeed be a beautiful day...except that you're both wrong.

But we have some lovely parting gifts for you! Don! Tell them what they've won!

Well Monty...its a "Better living Through Facism Do it Yourself Kit" That's right now you too can simulate ruling your own kingdom with an iron hand and be just a little more equal than others. PLUS one "Escape this police beatdown for free" card. Sure you were just getting milk from the cornr store but darnit you knew the risks when you walked down the street! Now this handy dandy card will save you from being beat, shot, tased or plunged any single time so use it wisely! !

LOL.

By the way.. one cannot be 'wrong' with their opinion.









Unless you are a Liberal

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tijay
I'd like McCain a lot more if he'd stop spending so much time caring about getting the gov't to overlord sports.

I agree.. but then again, as a sports nut.. it's about time someone did.

Baseball needs a complete overhaul in order to become "American's national passtime" again. Starting with giving Selig and Fehr the big boot up the ass.

[Warriorbird]

Police brutality never hurt anyone.

Curiously enough it tends to hurt police officers and innocent victims quite a bit.

[Hulkein]

False.

[Warriorbird]

You'd have to take that up with the two cops I know who've suffered from being in departments "under the public eye." because some idiots decided to go way beyond standards. This benefited them somehow? I don't think so.

[Hulkein]

I'm just kidding around, WB.

[Skirmisher]

Yah, we are just playing WB.

:yes: